A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[MrUnderhill]

R-Core LPSU:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hi-end-DC19V-5A-Low-Noise-R-core-Transformer-DC-Linear-Power-Supply-L9-10/142935964862?hash=item2147a5bcbe:m:mDLZxKfl2CGD-Zu_ZaELBRw:rk:1:pf:1

 

This was a clear step up from the SMPS with cleaner high frequencies and more profound bass.

I will be channeling the DC supply through PoE Dual Cat squared in due course.

 

I am trying to identify a suitable LT3045 to use, either singly or in parallel.

 

The unit itself is barely getting warm, which would seem to confirm the low current draw.

 

M

[mourip]

8 hours ago, greenleo said:

I tried GUI RAMBoot standard and headless RAMBoot extreme.  Both using HQP and the headless was an NAA.  The latter sounds better.

 

For the realtime priority extreme, the CPU basically never rest (the physical aspect), and the latency decreased and the SQ (hopefully) is better.  YMMV.

 

Thanks for the feedback. It is already sounding pretty remarkable. I might try the boot extreme but am not too hot(pun intended) about having the CPU running full bore ?

 

[greenleo]

1 minute ago, mourip said:

 

Thanks for the feedback. It is already sounding pretty remarkable. I might try the boot extreme but am not too hot(pun intended) about having the CPU running full bore ?

 

Go for the headless.  The current version may change to real time priority on the fly by using a menu, no more difficult command except alconf.  I use the extreme when boot up playing music and switch back to standard mode when not.  The system may be left on for a long time.  Once the NUC is there, you may leave it on "forever" because AL is pretty stable and the power is just 10W.

[mourip]

Just now, greenleo said:

Go for the headless.  The current version may change to real time priority on the fly by using a menu, no more difficult command except alconf.  I use the extreme when boot up playing music and switch back to standard mode when not.  The system may be left on for a long time.  Once the NUC is there, you may leave it on "forever" because AL is pretty stable and the power is just 10W.

 

Thanks! I am running headless and ramboot with the USB stick removed. I even disconnected my Windows 2016 and music SSD's so my Roon Bridge PC is running in a very minimal config. I always leave my system on except for my tube pre and amp. Last night I got Putty working so that I could make changes remotely.

 

In case anyone is interested my Roon bridge PC is connected to a Mutec 3+ USB that is externally clocked by a Mutec REF10. AES out of the M3USB to my Yggrasil DAC. The bridge PC and the Mutec USB are run by LPS's. That required modding the Mutec and putting a 6v 3045 regulator inside it. My Roon Core is run on a separate fanless PC running Roon ROCK.

 

Next up is to get a new NUC 7i5bnh up and running with AL for my headphone rig. It will have no internal SSD either. So far I have pulled three SSDs and an ethernet to AES converter out of my system.

 

I really love Roon, both for SQ and for simplifying my system. Now if Qobuz with Roon integration would finally roll out in the US it will be a slam dunk!

[austinpop]

Wow you guys have been busy! Great reports posted overnight.

[Monge]

After a long delay I finally got my Ballistix ram and I have all the hardware ready for building a NUC7CJYH2.

The Akasa case Will be delayed.

Can one of you guys recommend an good external harddisk or SSD for music files. I want to power the disk from a LPS?

Should I buy a SSD or?

Thanks In advance.

Cheers

[mourip]

Does anyone know if the AL purchase lets you install on more than one PC.

 

And if so do you need to download a second file for the next PC?

[seeteeyou]

2 hours ago, Monge said:

Can one of you guys recommend an good external harddisk or SSD for music files. I want to power the disk from a LPS?

 

If that drive were connected via USB, then it's gonna defeat the whole purpose of a completely diskless setup.

 

NAS could be an option, and then there's also stuff like this (you mentioned SSD and therefore I could only assume that 4TB should be OK) if you're looking for something that's powered by its own battery

 

https://www.amazon.com/Passport-Wireless-Portable-external-Drive/dp/B06X6H1LY6

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1322058-REG/wd_wdbsmt0040bbk_nesn_4tb_my_passport_wireless.html

 

2.5" 4TB drives should be almost guaranteed to be SMR ones, do a search on PMR versus SMR

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/6m19zf/largest_shuckable_nonsmr_25_external/

 

However, SMR might not be such a big deal if we're simply using that for music storage. Most likely we wouldn't keep erasing files and therefore the performance shouldn't be a concern.

[Dev]

I tried installing LMS but looks like it failed to get many packages. Does anybody know how to fix it ? @austinpop ?

 

:: Retrieving packages...
error: failed retrieving file 'perl-xml-namespacesupport-1.12-2-any.pkg.tar.xz' from mirrors.evowise.com : The requested URL returned error: 404
error: failed retrieving file 'perl-xml-namespacesupport-1.12-2-any.pkg.tar.xz' from mirror.rackspace.com : The requested URL returned error: 404
warning: failed to retrieve some files

[seeteeyou]

Force pacman to refresh the package lists

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/mirrors#Force_pacman_to_refresh_the_package_lists

 

Version 1.12-2 was replaced by 1.12-3 since November 9th

 

https://mirrors.evowise.com/archlinux/pool/packages/perl-xml-namespacesupport-1.12-3-any.pkg.tar.xz

[Cornan]

53 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

NAS could be an option, and then there's also stuff like this (you mentioned SSD and therefore I could only assume that 4TB should be OK) if you're looking for something that's powered by its own battery

 

https://www.amazon.com/Passport-Wireless-Portable-external-Drive/dp/B06X6H1LY6

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1322058-REG/wd_wdbsmt0040bbk_nesn_4tb_my_passport_wireless.html

 

Just for notes. The WD wireless passport on this link is to the HDD version. Here is a link to the SSD version https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1387140-REG/wd_wdbamj2500agy_nesn_my_passport_wireless_250gb.html

 

This is an awesome solution for photographers (contains SD card reader and can stream the content to a mobile phone or tablet). Not intirely sure it is that good as an audiophile solution though.

[austinpop]

29 minutes ago, Dev said:

I tried installing LMS but looks like it failed to get many packages. Does anybody know how to fix it ? @austinpop ?

 

:: Retrieving packages...
error: failed retrieving file 'perl-xml-namespacesupport-1.12-2-any.pkg.tar.xz' from mirrors.evowise.com : The requested URL returned error: 404
error: failed retrieving file 'perl-xml-namespacesupport-1.12-2-any.pkg.tar.xz' from mirror.rackspace.com : The requested URL returned error: 404
warning: failed to retrieve some files

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of Linux. I brute forced it by uncommenting more mirrors in the file /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist

 

1 minute ago, seeteeyou said:

Force pacman to refresh the package lists

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/mirrors#Force_pacman_to_refresh_the_package_lists

 

Version 1.12-2 was replaced by 1.12-3 since November 9th

 

https://mirrors.evowise.com/archlinux/pool/packages/perl-xml-namespacesupport-1.12-3-any.pkg.tar.xz

 

Or you could do it the elegant way!  

[Dev]

Piero asked me to refresh the list using yaourt -Sy and that did the trick. 

[Monge]

@seeteeyou Thanks ? I’m not going to use the external disk with the NUC7CJYH2. I have the plan to use a spare Laptop for Roon or LMS where I’ll use the internal SSD and combine with an USB disk.

@Cornan Thanks, Good to see you are good ?

 

Are SSD better than trad spinning HD soundvise?

[Cornan]

3 minutes ago, Monge said:

@seeteeyou Thanks ? I’m not going to use the external disk with the NUC7CJYH2. I have the plan to use a spare Laptop for Roon or LMS where I’ll use the internal SSD and combine with an USB disk.

@Cornan Thanks, Good to see you are good ?

 

Are SSD better than HD soundvise?

 

Great to see you around Monge! ?

 

HDD or SSD is a constant battle. Some swear by HDD and some swear by SSD. Me I am not using any harddrives what so ever. If I did I would put it as far from the audio setup as possible. They are all noisy buggers that needs to be well isolated! ? 

 

[seeteeyou]

8 minutes ago, Monge said:

Are SSD better than trad spinning HD soundvise?

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=359&tab=comments#comment-860030

On 8/8/2018 at 7:29 PM, romaz said:

Just like in the past, after 5-6 hours of listening, there was fatigue.  In my view, it had to be the SSD that was the culprit.  According to Ed Hsu of Sound Galleries, SSDs emit a noise in the 6GHz range that is very difficult to filter and the faster the SSD, generally the noisier it is.  Based on what I was hearing, I had no reason to doubt what he was saying.

 

[seeteeyou]

On 11/17/2018 at 12:06 PM, beerandmusic said:

I don't want to mess with smartphone, and personally am used to using jriver....I know i could still use jriver or hqplayer/naa, but just curious if there is a web player out there ?

 

If squeezelite-R2 were OK for you, the same author also wrote falcon for controlling that via web browsers

 

https://github.com/marcoc1712/falcon

https://github.com/marcoc1712/installFalcon

[beerandmusic]

5 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

 

If squeezelite-R2 were OK for you, the same author also wrote falcon for controlling that via web browsers

 

https://github.com/marcoc1712/falcon

https://github.com/marcoc1712/installFalcon

 

Thanks for suggestion, but i personally don't want to be tied to any specific hardware.

[seeteeyou]

Just scratching my head, it ain't 1984 or anything like that. Ain't open-source software meant to work on any kinda hardware as long as we're talking about the right architecture? Both squeezelite-R2 and falcon are available for free while they're also compatible Linux / Mac / Windows.

 

Nobody is forcing us to purchase additional hardware to run whatever OS that's been discussed on this thread lately. If we're already having at least 4GB of RAM, then we're actually getting rid of SSDs / HDDs / expensive "audiophile" SATA cables etc.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Welcome to the wonderful world of Linux.

I was curious what this yaourt command did.  While googling, I came across this article

https://itsfoss.com/best-aur-helpers/

[elan120]

Bridged Ethernet Ports

 

While trying different NUC setups, I decided to give the following a test drive, and the result is the best SQ so far in my system.

 

I am in early stage of incorporating NUC to my system, and still have more configurations to try, but since this setup is quite simple, you guys might want to give it a try.

 

[Dev]

I am unable to play using LMS/Squeezelite.

 

Here are the configs

 

[root@audiolinux audiolinux]# squeezelite -l
Output devices:
  null                           - Discard all samples (playback) or generate zero samples (capture)
  default:CARD=P20               - PS Audio USB Audio 2.0, USB Audio - Default Audio Device
  sysdefault:CARD=P20            - PS Audio USB Audio 2.0, USB Audio - Default Audio Device
  front:CARD=P20,DEV=0           - PS Audio USB Audio 2.0, USB Audio - Front speakers
  surround21:CARD=P20,DEV=0      - PS Audio USB Audio 2.0, USB Audio - 2.1 Surround output to Front and Subwoofer speakers
  surround40:CARD=P20,DEV=0      - PS Audio USB Audio 2.0, USB Audio - 4.0 Surround output to Front and Rear speakers
  surround41:CARD=P20,DEV=0      - PS Audio USB Audio 2.0, USB Audio - 4.1 Surround output to Front, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
  surround50:CARD=P20,DEV=0      - PS Audio USB Audio 2.0, USB Audio - 5.0 Surround output to Front, Center and Rear speakers
  surround51:CARD=P20,DEV=0      - PS Audio USB Audio 2.0, USB Audio - 5.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Rear and Subwoofer speakers
  surround71:CARD=P20,DEV=0      - PS Audio USB Audio 2.0, USB Audio - 7.1 Surround output to Front, Center, Side, Rear and Woofer speakers
  iec958:CARD=P20,DEV=0          - PS Audio USB Audio 2.0, USB Audio - IEC958 (S/PDIF) Digital Audio Output

 

[root@audiolinux audiolinux]# cat /etc/conf.d/squeezelite
params="-n player-name -o hw:CARD=P20 -b 524288:524288 -a 16:4:: -D"

 

When I play from LMS web interface, it seems to play but there is no output.

On the squeezelite end, I see the following the error

 

Nov 23 09:52:12 audiolinux squeezelite[1434]: [09:52:12.160940] alsa_open:548 unable to set hw params: Invalid argument

 

What am I doing wrong ?

 

[Dev]

26 minutes ago, Dev said:

root@audiolinux audiolinux]# cat /etc/conf.d/squeezelite
params="-n player-name -o hw:CARD=P20 -b 524288:524288 -a 16:4:: -D"

 

When I play from LMS web interface, it seems to play but there is no output.

On the squeezelite end, I see the following the error

 

Nov 23 09:52:12 audiolinux squeezelite[1434]: [09:52:12.160940] alsa_open:548 unable to set hw params: Invalid argument

 

Looks like "-D" is an invalid option. When I removed it, I am able to play 44.1 but not anything higher. Still figuring it out...

[austinpop]

42 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Looks like "-D" is an invalid option. When I removed it, I am able to play 44.1 but not anything higher. Still figuring it out...

 

Can't offer any expert help, as I also kinda futzed with it to get it to work. Does your DAC accept DSD natively, or via DoP? You need -D for DoP.

 

A couple other things to play with:

1. Remove the -a options to let them default
2. Try -o default:CARD-P20

[greenleo]

A "brief" report on running AL on two endpoints.

 

Warning: this is long post that reminds me my emotional changes and how I setup the NUC, some of them is personal.  For the SQ and the summary, please read the key takes at the bottom.

 

I received a message that NUC7CJYH's coming.  Knowing that NUC can be picky on memory, I checked the list validated by Intel, rushed to the nearest computer store after work to buy the RAM, and only KVR24S17S6/4 may be bbought".  The shop owner is my friend who told me shops don't stock notebook RAMs but I may order.  I told him the urgency (typical audiophile urgency, right?) and I needed to have it immediately if possible, ...  He called his friends, sending his staff to collect the RAM, and I got the RAM half an hour later.  I went home.

 

Setup the NUC was not difficult.  A many-folded instructions was provided with multi-language.  I was impatient and justed looked at the diagrams, knowing what to do with the screws and then started opening the case.  Two RAM slots were provided and I just put the only RAM in the lower slot.  Power by the SMPS provided and booted with my headless AL USB disk, so far so good.  Needed to fiddle the UEFI a little bit because the security of the presetting didn't allow me to boot the USB disk.  Again, by trying different options, eventually I may boot the NUC successfully.  I find the SQ excellent and then did a simple comparison to confirm.

 

The actual comparison:

Control PC: Win7 running HQP.

Audio PC: AL headless RAMBoot Extreme (realtimne priority extreme).  Physical setup of the Audio PCs.

1. Using my audio PC described before, ASUS mobo, 8GB RAM, i7 6core CPU. 

2 SLC SSD were connected but not mounted.  Hence no access.

2. NUC7CJYH, 4GB RAM, no local storage.

 

I tried 2 first, finding it sounding even better.  Then I check against 1 if it was a placebo effect or expectation bias.

 

 

Results:

The key track that confirmed my hearing was not expectation bias and the change was not subtle was "Sound Library STS Television production" a track of my favorite burn in CD.

 

Background of the track:

This track starts with someone banging the door.  Then splashing of glasses comes out, and much more...I heard this track at a shop 10 years ago.  The speakers were audio physics.  The sound of splashing the glasses was so real that I never forget.  It's that experience pulled me into the bottomless pit--HiFi.

 

My impressions on the track:

As I said before, I'm a headphone guy. I've been trying to reproduce the feeling in my HP system but not  successful.  I  wish that I could forget that sound but couldn't.  If so, I could have saved lots of money, and I would be happier rather than keep on noticing the shortcomings of my system.  Unfortunately, one simply can't unhear what's heard.

 

As a matter of fact.  I've encountered countless failures (after each upgrade of hw, sw or tweaking), up to a point that I have forsaken listening to the track, just use it to burn in new devices.  Up to a point I question myself if I've dreamed it all up?  Have I been deceiving myself in the past years?  Anyway, the past are always the good old days, the memories are always beautiful, right?

 

Even using AL headless RAMBoot extreme in 1 as described in the previous post didn't satisfy fully satisfy me.  Don't get me wrong, that system was already very good.  May use GUI that provides SQ >= that of WS2016 core with AO and Lasso optimized was/is great.  But somehow something is missing.  Now I know what and why.

 

The actual checking:

I listened to some live tracks, got a feeling that 2 sounds better.  But I was not sure--nobody would help me for a blind test and the potential expectation bias was simply too high given the rave reviews here.  The reviewers are the ones that I trusted most,...  Suddenly I told myself why not trying that track again?  I did and I'm glad I did.  The 10-year old feeling revived.  The sound of splashing glasses was as crispy, the missing element, as what I heard 10 years ago.  I talked to myself, "Oh that's it!  Yes, that's it.  My memory serves me right..."  I have not deceived myself in the past, I sighed with great relief.

 

To confirm my checking, I immediately switched to 1 by unplugging the LAN cable from 2 and plugged it into 1, use the same USB disk to boot the AL headless RAMBoot Extreme immediately and listen to the track again.  Hence the only change was the AL endpoint.  Once again, the crystal clear crispy feelings' gone.

 

Now the anticlimax.  I wanted to check further, but "CHORE TIME" came.

 

The key takes:

1. AL running on different endpoints will produce different SQ as it should be.  However, a more powerful endpoint doesn't guarantee a better SQ as shown in my case.  I guess the SoC in the NUC that physically (and probably logically as well) shortened the connections plays a key role in the SQ. Physically, the latency should be reduced as well.

 

2. NUC7CJYH alone can rival my old system that run with the tx-USBUltra.  I was told but still not prepared.  Anyway, I report what I heard.

 

3. My end-game setup has come.  To be able to rival a mid price range (about $3000 ten years ago for only the speakers) speaker system by HP was my dream.  I can live happily with the current system for the rest of my life.  No kidding.

 

4. Will I put the tx-USBUltra back to my system with the NUC?  No.  Through causal listening, the tx didn't provide obvious SQ improvement now.  In fact, with/without sounds identical to me.  I didn't check if the SQ had become worse as I enjoy music more than auditions.  To simplify my system is a constant goal. Hence no going back.

 

5. I have now fallen into an even deeper hole (well logically impossible as nothing can be deeper than bottomless, correct?), the CAS and in particular, this thread, our very thread.  Now I'm wondering can my system be better (peril coming, warnings, red lights flashing, LOL)?  What is the end point of this journey (for this I know the answer, NEVER).

 

I'll report back if SQ changes after system upgrade.  My plan is a better DC cable (now I can't use LPS-1.2 to power the NUC), a better chassis (I can't fetch the Newton JC chassis anywhere), clock replacement (tx-USBUltra is now collecting dust), vibration control (I know nothing on this, please HELP).  I remember Larry mentioned that OS optimization (or code optimization) are also key to better SQ.  Being a novoice in Linux, I cannot touch this.  No plan to go for Ref 10, that sort of external reference clock, because it's out of my reach, at least for quite sometime.

 

Acknowledgements:

My thanks to Roy, Larry, Elvia and many members who shared their journey, through posts and/or PMS, of using the AL, the NUC and both.  Thank you for Piero who make AL with great usability so that someone as Linux ignorant as I may use it and the price is very very reasonable with prompot support. Without you guys, I doubt if I dared to start this journey.

 

Regards.