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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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20 minutes ago, mormogi said:

This one

FA780E26-FC3E-4E3B-8595-C66074D9656D.jpeg

 

I can tell you this. What’s annoy me more than anything in this hobby is lack of patience and the lust for experiments. A lot of things is dismissed due to patience to try other scenarios. If I would be like that I would not be using ISO Regen or LPS-1.2 for that matter. They did’nt improve my setup as is , but I did’nt give up since I knew that something good was coming with some patience. I’m thrilled with both now, but if I was another person I would just have returned them after my first trial. I really think you should do the same. Evaluate it properly before you sell it off! ?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Bad boy! ? High impedance AC input is not necessarily a bad thing. I am not a believer in impedance negative effects. I believe that both signal and power should be as non-restricted as possible really. Make the signal/power as quick as possible for best results and try to optimize the rest of the system likewise. Isolate anything possible from one another (especially ground/shield/ 0v reference) and make the power as clean as possible. Sounds easy, but it is not! ?

I will follow innuos and ps audio guys but my usb cables  10 mm long,no upsampling no filters nothing,just hq player and lot of lt3045 everywhere,can enjoying all old songs ,never listened diana krall or other high end stuff,just enjoying old recordings....and techno!!!!

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5 minutes ago, mormogi said:

I just think about this level, very addictive, maybe dangerous. I don’t want go outside, sports, nothing. This not good for my body

 

Sports and outside air will kill you. I have a hard time seeing that this hobby will kill you unless you decide to go AC! ?

 

 

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10 hours ago, austinpop said:

Comparing squeezelite case 4 (4GB buffers) with Roon, the SQ difference is quite obvious! squeezelite sounds so much better!

 

This is an indication that Roon, at the bare minimal, needs to enable ram based playback and queue tracks into it rather than constantly accessing the storage which adds latency. Jriver does this already. I had posted this earlier here and it seems like Roon guys are thinking about it but they aren't sure it would improve SQ. It really frustrating that Roon is putting all its energy into more features rather than spending more effort on SQ.

 

Another option to pursue for Roon would be some kind of integration with squeezelite, similar to HQP. 

 

After your experience with squeezelite (and thanks for that!), I would be interested to try it out. As I haven't used squeezelite before, can it be run in a server/streamer topology ?

 

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17 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

This is an indication that Roon, at the bare minimal, needs to enable ram based playback and queue tracks into it rather than constantly accessing the storage which adds latency. Jriver does this already. I had posted this earlier here and it seems like Roon guys are thinking about it but they aren't sure it would improve SQ. It really frustrating that Roon is putting all its energy into more features rather than spending more effort on SQ.

 

We need to pursue this with them in the most impactful way. I already tried posting on their knowledge base, but it fell on deaf ears.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/does-roon-download-entire-track-into-ram-memory-playback-discussion/12397/24

 

I encourage as many Roon users I can to please try this for yourself, confirm the benefits, and then ask for Roon to implement.

 

17 minutes ago, Dev said:

Another option to pursue for Roon would be some kind of integration with squeezelite, similar to HQP. 

 

This is in fact one of the improvements that Nuno and his team at Innuos are working on - to enable squeezelite as a Roon endpoint on the Zenith SE.

 

17 minutes ago, Dev said:

After your experience with squeezelite (and thanks for that!), I would be interested to try it out. As I haven't used squeezelite before, can it be run in a server/streamer topology ?

 

 

Yes it can. It's very similar to Roon or UPnP for that matter. You have the server, LMS (Logitech Media Server) that does library management, and streams to network attached players like squeezelite. You control this with control apps like iPeng on iOS and OrangeSqueeze on Android.

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5 minutes ago, austinpop said:

We need to pursue this with them in the most impactful way. I already tried posting on their knowledge base, but it fell on deaf ears.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/does-roon-download-entire-track-into-ram-memory-playback-discussion/12397/24

 

I encourage as many Roon users I can to please try this for yourself, confirm the benefits, and then ask for Roon to implement.

 

I am all ears. Even without trying squeezelite, I think there is enough evidence that it will improve SQ with Roon. JRiver, Audirvana, LMS all does this....

 

6 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Yes it can. It's very similar to Roon or UPnP for that matter. You have the server, LMS (Logitech Media Server) that does library management, and streams to network attached players like squeezelite. You control this with control apps like iPeng on iOS and OrangeSqueeze on Android.

 

That's cool. Where do I start ? Any links or pointers ? Do you know if there is any control app for the mac users ?

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Here you go. These are just the main steps.  It assumes you can fill in the blanks. :) 

 

 

Getting LMS and Squeezelite working

  • Install:
    • On server: yaourt -S logitechmediaserver-git
    • On renderer: yaourt -S squeezelite-r2-git
  • Configure renderer:
    • Run squeezelite -l and confirm that your DAC appears something like this:
      • default:CARD=Interface         - Ayre USB Interface, USB Audio - Default Audio Device
    • Edit /etc/conf.d/squeezelite
    • Change line to params="-n player-name  -o hw:CARD=Interface -b 1048576:1048576 -a 16:4:: -D"
      • Note - I am not sure if the -a is necessary. It worked for me. The -D is for DACs that need DoP.
      • Note - the above values for -b require a total of 2GB. Play with these as described earlier
    • systemctl start squeezelite@audiolinux
    • Check status: systemctl status squeezelite@audiolinux
  • Now on the server side…
    • systemctl start logitechmediaserver-git.service
    • Go to the LMS page at http://<IP>:9000
    • Click Settings on bottom right
    • Set Media folders to wherever your media lives. For example: /media/linux2/music
    • Set Playlists similarly: /media/linux2/playlists
    • Make sure to click Scan and confirm the results
    • Enable just a few plugins, disable the rest
      DGA491YvkHJ3Jms-mcDLWxhHKXHRpFavOH4EnLiB
    • I included C-3PO, but disabled it in the plugin setup. You can probably get away without it, but see what you find.
    • You should see the player under the Players tab
  • Finally, test playback
    • On the main LMS screen at http://<IP>:9000. Navigate to music and hit play. Confirm it's working.
    • Once it’s working, you can use this browser interface on any OS.
    • Additionally, you can use iPeng (paid app) on iOS and OrangeSqueeze on Android. There are many other apps too.
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5 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Here you go. These are just the main steps.  It assumes you can fill in the blanks. :) 

 

 

Getting LMS and Squeezelite working


  • Install:
    • On server: yaourt -S logitechmediaserver-git
    • On renderer: yaourt -S squeezelite-r2-git
  • Configure renderer:
    • Run squeezelite -l and confirm that your DAC appears something like this:
      • default:CARD=Interface         - Ayre USB Interface, USB Audio - Default Audio Device
    • Edit /etc/conf.d/squeezelite
    • Change line to params="-n player-name  -o hw:CARD=Interface -b 1048576:1048576 -a 16:4:: -D"
      • Note - I am not sure if the -a is necessary. It worked for me. The -D is for DACs that need DoP.
      • Note - the above values for -b require a total of 2GB. Play with these as described earlier
    • systemctl start squeezelite@audiolinux
    • Check status: systemctl status squeezelite@audiolinux
  • Now on the server side…
    • systemctl start logitechmediaserver-git.service
    • Go to the LMS page at http://<IP>:9000
    • Click Settings on bottom right
    • Set Media folders to wherever your media lives. For example: /media/linux2/music
    • Set Playlists similarly: /media/linux2/playlists
    • Make sure to click Scan and confirm the results
    • Enable just a few plugins, disable the rest DGA491YvkHJ3Jms-mcDLWxhHKXHRpFavOH4EnLiB
    • I included C-3PO, but disabled it in the plugin setup. You can probably get away without it, but see what you find.
    • You should see the player under the Players tab
  • Finally, test playback
    • On the main LMS screen at http://<IP>:9000. Navigate to music and hit play. Confirm it's working.
    • Once it’s working, you can use this browser interface on any OS.
    • Additionally, you can use iPeng (paid app) on iOS and OrangeSqueeze on Android. There are many other apps too.

 

Super. Thanks a bunch!

 

My NUC8i7 arrives today, so thanksgiving holidays will be busy ?

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1 hour ago, Dev said:

 

This is an indication that Roon, at the bare minimal, needs to enable ram based playback and queue tracks into it rather than constantly accessing the storage which adds latency. Jriver does this already. I had posted this earlier here and it seems like Roon guys are thinking about it but they aren't sure it would improve SQ. It really frustrating that Roon is putting all its energy into more features rather than spending more effort on SQ.

 

Another option to pursue for Roon would be some kind of integration with squeezelite, similar to HQP. 

 

After your experience with squeezelite (and thanks for that!), I would be interested to try it out. As I haven't used squeezelite before, can it be run in a server/streamer topology ?

 

hmm, I don't think that's the whole story. I have to run LXQT off SSD  because my PC is non UEFI, it's still better than WIn10 with Roonserver off SSD... I blame the OS

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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28 minutes ago, Dev said:

My NUC8i7 arrives today, so thanksgiving holidays will be busy ?

So did you end up getting NUC8i7BEH or some other model? 

 

Please let us know how it turns out.  I'm particularly interested in how a quad core with base/turbo clocks of 2.7/4.5 GHz does with AudioLinux.  Are the reported benefits still there without a fanless case and LPS-1.2 power supply?  What power supply do you plan to use?

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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5 hours ago, Cornan said:

The more parallel LT3045 the better noise rejection and less harsh /sibiliant SQ.

 Yes, the output impedance will be reduced markedly.

 I also find it interesting that no matter how low we make the output impedance, the resulting sound is still governed to a certain extent by the type of PSU capacitors used. Theoretically, the noise level of a single LT3045 is way lower than we are supposed to be able to hear, so it appears that the output impedance may be  way more critical than previously assumed.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Is it better to have a 16GB ram than 8GB for AL NUC? This up squared fanless system seems like a screaming deal for NUC use.

 

https://up-shop.org/home/258-up-squared-edge-system-powered-by-intel-x7-e3950-soc-8gb-ram-64gb-emmc.html

 

It comes with:

* Intel ATOM Quad Core up to 2.0GHz x7-E3950

* 8 GB RAM

* 2x GB Ethernet (Is that the ideal for direct connection to upstream server?)

*64GB eMMC Storage (Is there any point of eMMC storage if someone is booting from AudioLinux on USB?)

 

The price seems very reasonable at $399. Anyone tried this as NUC with AL?

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