A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[austinpop]

29 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Questionable...

a) Diwali was 10 days ago;

 

Picky, picky.  We Indians tend to be flexible about celebrating the holiday season.

 

29 minutes ago, Superdad said:

b) I bet you are a blast at parties!  

 

Sometimes I am. It's more that we introverts find parties and large gathering an incredible energy drain. Except the parties from hell, where some insufferable buffoon wants to debate their opposite political views.

[MrUnderhill]

You have to with LMS on AL. When I can get to my laptop I will post my settings.

 

i do transcode flac to wav for Qobuz. For my local files they are wav anyway, but C-3PO still required.

 

M

 

[austinpop]

9 minutes ago, MrUnderhill said:

You have to with LMS on AL. When I can get to my laptop I will post my settings.

 

i do transcode flac to wav for Qobuz. For my local files they are wav anyway, but C-3PO still required.

 

M

 

 

OK thanks, that would be helpful.

 

Weird why C-3PO would be a necessary prerequisite for it to work? I checked on the Zenith SE, and here are the plugins enabled. I actually referred to this set when bringing up LMS on AL.

 

[MrUnderhill]

My Settings:

 

Go into Settings > Advanced > C-3PO and deselect all the file options you DON'T use, for me this left flac and wav.

 

Go to Settings > Player > C-3PO

In my case I use an Audionote DAC, so 96k max.

FLAC = Enable stdin / Convert

WAV  = Enable Seek / Convert

 

Output Sample Rates selected = 44.1, 88.2, 48 & 96.

 

WRT C-3PO:

On AudioLinux Site includes -

Compatible audio applications: HQPlayer and HQPlayer embedded (with CUDA acceleration, if you install nvidia closed source drivers), HQPlayer Network Audio Daemon, MPD (with optional upmpdcli UPnP media renderer), Logitech Media Server + Squeezelite-R2 with C-3PO plugin, Kodi (XBMC), Jriver Media Center, Roon.
Audiolinux can be configured as headless server (also with HQPlayer embedded)

 

M

[MrUnderhill]

Yep. I normally don't use it either, but here I find it won't work without it. I think it is used to generate the fired commands, on the C-3PO player page look at the 'Last Command' section. Helped me to get things going.

 

M

[austinpop]

13 minutes ago, MrUnderhill said:

Yep. I normally don't use it either, but here I find it won't work without it. I think it is used to generate the fired commands, on the C-3PO player page look at the 'Last Command' section. Helped me to get things going.

 

M

 

Taking it to email. 

[Middy]

Shame on Akasa, the NUC case isn't great from experts on fanless heat management. Messed up the most important part.. 1200 -2000 grit lapped.

Stage one..done..block is easy but case and screw holes isn't. PM me if i can help anyone.

.

 

[Bricki]

16 minutes ago, Middy said:

Shame on Akasa, the NUC case isn't great from experts on fanless heat management. Messed up the most important part.. 1200 -2000 grit lapped.

Stage one..done..block is easy but case and screw holes isn't. PM me if i can help anyone.

.

 

I ordered my case a few days ago but it won't arrive for another month.... Are you having overheating issues in extreme mode with the case? Does it feel super hot? 

[lmitche]

8 minutes ago, Bricki said:

I ordered my case a few days ago but it won't arrive for another month.... Are you having overheating issues in extreme mode with the case? Does it feel super hot? 

They run between 40 and 50 degrees C in the Akasa case in extreme mode. The top feels forehead hot.

 

I looked based on Middys earlier comments and I did't see anything but a very shiny heatsink surface. It was mirror shiny not like the picture above.

[Bricki]

14 minutes ago, lmitche said:

They run between 40 and 50 degrees C in the Akasa case in extreme mode. The top feels forehead hot.

 

I looked based on Middys earlier comments and I did't see anything but a very shiny heatsink surface. It was mirror shiny not like the picture above.

OK thanks Larry. Hopefully my one will be of similar quality to yours. I was going to order one from Amazon but when I woke up the next morning all 3 were gone and the UK sites won't ship to Australia... So I had to order one on ebay shipping from Italy. I hope the correct case turns up because it showed a different case in the picture but the correct model number ?. 

 

I did manage to find a nuc7cjyh in stock in Australia but I think it was the last one ?. It should arrive this week and I will post some impressions in a few weeks.. I will try and get roon server running in ramboot extreme headless on my sonicTransporter i5 and run roon Bridge ramboot headless extreme on the nuc7cjyh... 

 

I bought 4GB of Kingston cl17 2400 ddr4. But I did notice Roy had a compatibility problem with Kingston hyperx and the nuc7cjyh.

 

What ram are you using with the nuc7cjyh? 

 

Thanks again for sharing all your results with us on CA Larry. We are very grateful?

 

Cheers 

Brendan 

[lmitche]

2 minutes ago, Bricki said:

OK thanks Larry. Hopefully my one will be of similar quality to yours. I was going to order one from Amazon but when I woke up the next morning all 3 were gone and the UK sites won't ship to Australia... So I had to order one on ebay shipping from Italy. I hope the correct case turns up because it showed a different case in the picture but the correct model number ?. 

 

I did manage to find a nuc7cjyh in stock in Australia but I think it was the last one ?. It should arrive this week and I will post some impressions in a few weeks.. I will try and get roon server running in ramboot extreme headless on my sonicTransporter i5 and run roon Bridge ramboot headless extreme on the nuc7cjyh... 

 

I bought 4GB of Kingston cl17 2400 ddr4. But I did notice Roy had a compatibility problem with Kingston hyperx and the nuc7cjyh.

 

What ram are you using with the nuc7cjyh? 

 

Thanks again for sharing all your results with us on CA Larry. We are very grateful?

 

Cheers 

Brendan 

Brendan,

 

I'm using Crucial Sport Ballistix CL16 memory.

 

Larry

[Middy]

I might be the unlucky one, didnt mean to worry anyone unduly, Just helping the non engineers with basic metal work skills. 

Dave

[lmitche]

Just now, Middy said:

I might be the unlucky one, didnt mean to worry anyone unduly, Just helping the non engineers with basic metal work skills. 

Dave

Oh no, this is helpful. Without your words I wouldn't have noticed, unless it was really bad.

[Bricki]

2 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Brendan,

 

I'm using Crucial Sport Ballistix CL16 memory.

 

Larry

Hmmm.. Does the cl16 mean that it has a lower latency than the cl17 I ordered? Perhaps I bought the wrong one ?

[lmitche]

1 minute ago, Bricki said:

Hmmm.. Does the cl16 mean that it has a lower latency than the cl17 I ordered? Perhaps I bought the wrong one ?

It's this stuff:

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/memory-ballistix-sport-lt-ddr4-sodimm

[Bricki]

19 minutes ago, lmitche said:

It's this stuff:

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/memory-ballistix-sport-lt-ddr4-sodimm

OK thanks. It looks like your ram will perform better than mine due to lower latency. Have you noticed a sq difference with different ram on the nucs that you have built so far? If so, is it a minor difference? Does all 2400 ddr4 ram get you roughly in the same ball park sq wise? 

[lmitche]

12 minutes ago, Bricki said:

OK thanks. It looks like your ram will perform better than mine due to lower latency. Have you noticed a sq difference with different ram on the nucs that you have built so far? If so, is it a minor difference? Does all 2400 ddr4 ram get you roughly in the same ball park sq wise? 

Having used cl 17 and cl 16 in various builds here. I can't say there is much of a difference. As cl 16 costs almost the same as cl 17 here, why not?

[bibo01]

@austinpop

Just to let you know that on the same Italian site - NextHardware - where you find a thread for AudioLinux (which by the way I was the first to review years ago), there is another thread for C-3PO. Its developer and many others users are always there to help in troubleshooting/setting up.

 

Another thread it might be of interest to your "research" is the one for GentooPlayer (similar to AL), an in-house free OS which is compiled for your particular hardware system. There are various images available with/out GUI. 

[Bricki]

7 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Having used cl 17 and cl 16 in various builds here. I can't say there is much of a difference. As cl 16 costs almost the same as cl 17 here, why not?

OK thanks ?. Indeed why not - if I had my time again I would go for the cl16, but it wasn't a parameter I was thinking about at the time. 

 

Thanks again ?

Brendan 

[austinpop]

Some more findings on Zenith SE running AL Extreme

 

1. Removing the USB stick after boot (the withdrawal method) does indeed sound a little bit better. Thanks, @lmitche for helping me with my premature optimization.
2. For now, I've given up on getting LMS/squeezelite working. I'm sure with time it's debuggable, but for now, it goes back on the shelf.
3. To give you a sense of the magnitude of the SQ improvement AL in ramroot mode brings to the Zenith SE running RoonServer... I was listening to this album:
   
   https://open.qobuz.com/album/7318599921648
   https://tidal.com/album/68790357
4. I've reported before that in terms of SQ:
   • the SQ of SE's internal player is much better than Roon player
   • the SQ of Qobuz sounds better than Tidal, both on SE's internal player, with Redbook files
   •  
5. Well, I am now finding that:
   • SE/AL-RAM playing the above album in Roon via Tidal in 16/44.1 is sounding better than
   • SE/InnuOS playing the above album in internal player from Qobuz in hi-res (24/96)

So for me the tangible benefit of booting up my SE with AL is that I am now getting better SQ with Roon (my preferred music player) than I was getting on InnuOS with LMS/internal player (not my preferred music player).

[greenleo]

8 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Some more findings on Zenith SE running AL Extreme

 

1. Removing the USB stick after boot (the withdrawal method) does indeed sound a little bit better. Thanks, @lmitche for helping me with my premature optimization.
2. For now, I've given up on getting LMS/squeezelite working. I'm sure with time it's debuggable, but for now, it goes back on the shelf.
3. To give you a sense of the magnitude of the SQ improvement AL in ramroot mode brings to the Zenith SE running RoonServer... I was listening to this album:
   
   https://open.qobuz.com/album/7318599921648
   https://tidal.com/album/68790357
4. I've reported before that in terms of SQ:
   • the SQ of SE's internal player is much better than Roon player
   • the SQ of Qobuz sounds better than Tidal, both on SE's internal player, with Redbook files
   •  
5. Well, I am now finding that:
   • SE/AL-RAM playing the above album in Roon via Tidal in 16/44.1 is sounding better than
   • SE/InnuOS playing the above album in internal player from Qobuz in hi-res (24/96)

So for me the tangible benefit of booting up my SE with AL is that I am now getting better SQ with Roon (my preferred music player) than I was getting on InnuOS with LMS/internal player (not my preferred music player).

Please clarify the meaning of "SE/InnuOS playing the above album in internal player from Qobuz in hi-res (24/96)" in terms of SQ.

 

Regards.

[austinpop]

Just now, greenleo said:

Please clarify the meaning of "SE/InnuOS playing the above album in internal player from Qobuz in hi-res (24/96)" in terms of SQ.

 

Regards.

 

This predates all this AL stuff.

 

Zenith SE runs InnuOS - a Linux variant. Its internal player is an Innuos (the manufacturer)-modified version of squeezelite. This runs in concert with LMS also running on the SE.

 

I think it's fair to say that there is a consensus among Zenith SE owners that the internal player has better SQ than Roon's player. This is attributed to the memory caching and possibly other enhancements that Innuos did in their modded squeezelite player. 

 

Qobuz is a streaming service. Roon does not (yet) support it. LMS does have a plugin, so I listen to Qobuz with SE's internal player.

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

This predates all this AL stuff.

 

Zenith SE runs InnuOS - a Linux variant. Its internal player is an Innuos (the manufacturer)-modified version of squeezelite. This runs in concert with LMS also running on the SE.

 

I think it's fair to say that there is a consensus among Zenith SE owners that the internal player has better SQ than Roon's player. This is attributed to the memory caching and possibly other enhancements that Innuos did in their modded squeezelite player. 

 

Qobuz is a streaming service. Roon does not (yet) support it. LMS does have a plugin, so I listen to Qobuz with SE's internal player.

I c.  That means in your original point 5, there was a comparison between two configurations and you found the 1st one (SE/AL-RAM) sounded better.

[Superdad]

6 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

maybe it was an Alternative Cowboy Diwali

 

Right. He does live in Austin after all. 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, greenleo said:

I c.  That means in your original point 5, there was a comparison between two configurations and you found the 1st one (SE/AL-RAM) sounded better.

 

Exactly. I was trying to describe the improvement due to AL in a practical context.