A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[left channel]

21 minutes ago, rickca said:

What I don't understand is how this works if your using LMS/Squeezelite with a control point like iPeng.  Maybe @left channel can educate me, please?

 

And maybe I just haven't had enough coffee yet today.

 

And maybe I need a lot more coffee before I can catch up with this 414-page thread! ? But my answer would probably be one LMS plugin or another.

 

Edit: 415 pages. Another cup please?

[Monge]

Maybe a stupid question.

Is it possible to stream Tidal direct with Audiolinux on Intel NUCI7CJYH as the only machine and how if possible?

Cheers

 

[seeteeyou]

BubbleUPnP Server + BubbleDS Next (Android only) could handle both TIDAL and Qobuz

 

https://bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver/

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.bubbleds2&hl=en

 

Lighting DS should be equivalent to BubbleDS Next, both TIDAL and Qobuz are supported as well

 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lightning-ds/id887436741?mt=8

[89reksal]

Has anyone been able to successfully bridge onboard LAN adapter and pci nic in Windows Server 2012 R2? My current configuration is sms-200 Neo configured for MPD/DLNA connected via ethernet cable to switch. CAPS V2 server running JRiver as DLNA server also connected to same switch via ethernet cable. Switch is connected via ethernet to router. Synology NAS is connected to same router via ethernet.  JRiver library is on NAS. I use JRemote on iPod for control point. All this has worked fine prior to attempting to bridge.

 

I've attempted various methods to make a bridge with my original onboard LAN port and a new PCI Intel single port nic (using DHCP for ip addresses for nics, using static ips, using different subnets as described by clipper in posts around page 13 of this thread)but when attempting to play files from NAS through JRiver all I get is severe stuttering during playback. I'm able to play Radio Paradise through JRiver with no issues which tells me that the internet side is working. It appears the issue is something to do with connectivity to the NAS with bridging. I pinged NAS, sms-200 and bridge and all seems ok (oms, no packet loss). I ran tracert on CAPS pc and it shows nothing off.

 

I've read up to page 100 on this read and so far have seen no definitive instructions for bridging server 2012 r2. Some seem to have usaed wifi dongle, others didn't. Some used dhcp server, some didn't. Googl search hasn't found anything helpful at all other than the links posted at beginning of this thread about bridging in windows 10. All I see for server 2012 is instructions for teaming.

 

I'm very frustrated at this point after spending yesterday and so far today on this. I can delete the bridge and reconfigure to original connections and back to listening to music at least. That may very well end up as my only solution but after all this time spent on something that seems so simple, I hate to give up now. I'm hoping some kind soul can take pity on me and point me in the right direction.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Bill

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi Roy,

 

Many thanks for your recent contributions including the above on the sNH-10G

 

I've been in that rare audiophile state of being (fairly) content with my system and SQ for a while now. But funnily enough I spent a couple hours on Sunday morning rereading both yours and Rajiv's reviews of the sNH-10G prototype. Posted here for convenience of others that are interested:

 

 

 

 

 

I currently have the AQVOX SE in my system and am generally pretty happy with the SQ from Tidal. I also have the Zenith SE after following your findings on that and am generally pretty happy with the SQ of locally stored files (although annoyingly more with the LMS player rather than my preferred Roon).

 

But. And yes, there is ALWAYS a but! The prospect of the sNH-10G further lifting that Tidal playback is intriguing and there are two thoughts bouncing around my mind that have me intrigued (or perhaps that should be bothered!).

 

Path 1: Tidal into AQVOX SE > Zenith SE > TX-USBUltra > DAC

 

I'm intrigued by the prospect of enhancing this to:

 

Path 1: Tidal into sNH-10G > Zenith SE > TX-USBUltra > DAC

 

The sNH-10G comes with the option of me connecting it to my sCLK-OCX10 (which on paper at least) suggests it's likely to outperform the AQVOX.

 

(Also having spent the significant outlay on the reference clock there is an appeal to utilizing it more than I currently do).

 

But then there another path or two which become potentially very interesting. I have a DAC that accepts ethernet in. So by adding a switch that is disciplined by a reference clock two other paths open up that might just surpass my heavily optimised USB path:

 

Path 2: Tidal into sNH-10G > Zenith SE (LAN output) > DAC

 

or

 

Path 3: Tidal into sNH-10G > Zenith SE (LAN output) > sNH-10G > DAC

 

In other words I can pass 'clean/clocked' ethernet into the SE and then directly onto the DAC. Or I could pass 'clean/clocked' ethernet into the SE and then pack to the sNH-10G to be 'cleaned/clocked' again before being passed onto DAC.

 

Roy - my use-case is a lot closer to @austinpop's than yours but your observations of the sNH-10G: 

 

 

Well that's put the cat amongst the pigeons for me. Especially in Path 3 where crucially both Tidal and locally stored files pass through the sNH-10G ?

 

Whilst I'm nowhere near as adventurous or experimental as many on this thread I'm tempted to give it a go out of scientific discovery as much as out of the hope of raising the SQ further. But then again it's spending another 2 grand on a system that I currently have no complaints about.

 

The SoTM website says the sNH-10G doesn't start shipping until 26th of November so I guess I have some time to ponder, pontificate and otherwise generally drive myself up the wall with such thoughts! ?

 

Then of course there is the other 'maybe hold off' factor. Which is @Superdad's upcoming audiophile switch. Alex - I don't suppose you and John S are any closer to announcing a much awaited release date for yours?

 

Anyway - pardon my ramblings but since I'm driving myself to distraction I thought I'd share in case any of the gang have any thoughts or insight.

 

Cheers,

Alan 

 

 

 

Hi Alan,

 

As you saw from my review, my experience with the SOtM switch was a more modest improvement than Roy's. Perhaps it's because he has switched back to the endpoint approach (server > switch > NUC) while you and I are still going switch > server > DAC. Either way, as if it needed to be said at this point in page 415 - with everything we're trying here -YMMV!

 

Since your PS Audio DS DAC has Ethernet inputs, it's certainly worth a comparison of SE > USB > DAC with SE > switch > DAC. Indeed I tried the equivalent with both the Ayre QX-8 and QX-5 Twenty. The sad finding there for those two was that the USB path still sounded better! Even with the SOtM switch.

 

It has more to do with the Ethernet implementation of these devices. Both Ayre's use a ConversDigital board, and if I'm not mistaken, so does the DS.

[diecaster]

Not only does the PS Audio DirectStream sound better over USB versus Ethernet, it sounds even better in you pull the Bridge II card from the chassis (less internal noise).

[austinpop]

Someday direct streaming to a DAC via Ethernet will exceed the performance of USB. Until then it's a (drum roll)...

 

Bridge II (too) far.

 

[Account Closed]

Just now, austinpop said:

Someday direct streaming to a DAC via Ethernet will exceed the performance of USB. Until then it's a (drum roll)...

 

Bridge II (too) far.

 

We are getting there slowly but surely. Especially look at the AES67 to AES3 DDC 12V external power version.

 

https://www.micromedia.ch/?portfolio=aes67-dante-aoip-stereo-interfaces

[seeteeyou]

Their upcoming firmware release Snowmass seemed to be quite promising

 

https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-next-directstream-update/5273/631

 

It's so interesting to see a DAC like that since they're actually updating their FPGA code periodically, kinda like how we could decide what OS and apps etc. to run on our hardware.

[Summit]

16 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Someday direct streaming to a DAC via Ethernet will exceed the performance of USB. Until then it's a (drum roll)...

 

Bridge II (too) far.

 

 

Linn Klimax, you should listen to.

[BigAlMc]

19 minutes ago, austinpop said:

As you saw from my review, my experience with the SOtM switch was a more modest improvement than Roy's. Perhaps it's because he has switched back to the endpoint approach (server > switch > NUC) while you and I are still going switch > server > DAC. Either way, as if it needed to be said at this point in page 415 - with everything we're trying here -YMMV!

 

Hi Rajiv,

 

Yup totally. And that's what I meant when I said that my implementation was closer to yours than Roys as his sNH-10G prototype review was a substantial length of ethernet to the switch to NUC as endpoint (from memory anyway). Whereas yours is much closer to mine in terms of switch > SE > DAC. One of the main differences being that our locally stored files don't go via the switch but streaming does.

 

And I'd also paid attention that you found the difference between the TLS switch and the sNH-10G to be less that Roy observed.

 

But whilst the TLS switch sounds like a great bit of kit the ideal of the sNH-10G and it's presumed synergy with my sCLK-OCX10 is very intriguing. 

 

(Though the counter argument is that the BNC cable to connect the sCLK-OCX10 & sNH-10G probably costs ballpark what the TLS switch does!!).

 

29 minutes ago, austinpop said:

It has more to do with the Ethernet implementation of these devices. Both Ayre's use a ConversDigital board, and if I'm not mistaken, so does the DS.

 

Yes, spot on again. The Directstreams Bridge II is a ConversDigital board.

 

I was wondering if the sNH-10G might compete with the TX-USBultra path - especially given Roys findings. But I need to decide if I want to lay out 2 grand to find out. That ConversDigital board might well be the limiting factor.

 

And as per Diecasters subsequent post there are some DS owners that prefer USB. I personally found USB and Ethernet to be fairly evenly matched until I went down the USB optimisation rabbit hole. Which brings me full circle to whether Ethernet optimisation might level that playing field or not.

 

18 minutes ago, diecaster said:

Not only does the PS Audio DirectStream sound better over USB versus Ethernet, it sounds even better in you pull the Bridge II card from the chassis (less internal noise).

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. Some more thought clearly required.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

19 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Someday direct streaming to a DAC via Ethernet will exceed the performance of USB. Until then it's a (drum roll)...

 

Bridge II (too) far.

 

 

?

[seeteeyou]

22 hours ago, rafa said:

Just ordered one today. Will directly compare with my modded SU-1 and Dante DIO XLR.

 

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-u16-es8620-support-pcm32bit-768k-dsd512-dop-and-native-dsd-digital-interface.html

Quote

10M BNC input: input impedance 50 Ohm, maximum input amplitude 16dBm

 

That impedance is great for ToTL Cybershaft OP20 Ultimate / Limited2, add Habst on top of that and I couldn't imagine how that would sound.

[Superdad]

11 hours ago, romaz said:

So very true, Alex, and I believe I acknowledged your pioneering contributions very early on in this thread:

 

Indeed--and thanks.

 

11 hours ago, romaz said:

But even your original USB Regen was preceded by the Schiit Wyrd...

 

Only by a month or two.  Despite M. Moffat's claims, there was no imitation involved.  We were in development long before they announced Wyrd:

https://www.audiostream.com/comment/510116#comment-510116

Just sayin'... 

[Dev]

1 hour ago, diecaster said:

Not only does the PS Audio DirectStream sound better over USB versus Ethernet, it sounds even better in you pull the Bridge II card from the chassis (less internal noise).

 

I had the Bridge-1 and indeed found the USB sounds better when the card is removed. The DS even sounds better with the I2S input if you take the trouble of getting a DDC along with quality psu - another device in the chain in the name of SQ ?

 

I can't wait to load their new firmware snowmass....

[Middy]

EggNUC before snowmass..i think..

[beautiful music]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

 

I had the Bridge-1 and indeed found the USB sounds better when the card is removed. The DS even sounds better with the I2S input if you take the trouble of getting a DDC along with quality psu - another device in the chain in the name of SQ ?

 

I can't wait to load their new firmware snowmass....

When the Snowmass will be release?

[Dev]

1 minute ago, beautiful music said:

When the Snowmass will be release?

 

supposedly next week.

[beautiful music]

9 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

supposedly next week.

Looking expectantly for your feedback about this update.

[diecaster]

I am not counting on next week. Initially, it was supposed to be release 10 days ago.

[Dev]

3 minutes ago, beautiful music said:

Looking expectantly for your feedback about this update.

 

I will report back whenever its released.

[tapatrick]

3 hours ago, Dev said:

 

I had the Bridge-1 and indeed found the USB sounds better when the card is removed. The DS even sounds better with the I2S input if you take the trouble of getting a DDC along with quality psu - another device in the chain in the name of SQ ?

 

I can't wait to load their new firmware snowmass....

Agree @dev about the I2S input to PS audio DACs. I’ve found it better generally than the USB that’s why I built my DIY I2S streamer. However now I’m back to usb again with the NUC and finding it superb.  You never know where this journey is going next.

 

Down the line I’ll be looking out how to tap I2S from an NUC. 

[seeteeyou]

The challenge about I2S audio on an x86 motherboard should be BIOS support, Intel only demonstrated something relevant on UP Squared via its GPIO but not sure about how that's gonna work for NUC

 

https://forum.up-community.org/discussion/707/i2s-sound

 

An older NUC came with GPIO but that's meant for I2C instead

 

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/boardsandkits/custom-solutions-header-whitepaper.pdf#page=6

 

Other than I2S from Juli@ XTe or Pink Faun via M.2 to PCIe (i.e. Dawson Canyon with i3/i5/i7) adapter, I could only think of USB DDC

 

https://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=176

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/l-k-s-audio-usb-100-usb-audio-interface-pcm384-dsd512.html

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-u12-32bit-384khz-xmos-usb-digital-audio-interface.html

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/matrix-x-spdif-2-32bit-768khz-dsd512-hifi-audio-usb-interface.html

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/singxer-su-1-usb-digital-interface-with-xmos-xu208-cpld-dsd256-dop.html

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-x-usb-xmos-usb-to-spdif-converter-dac-dsd-iis-digital-audio-interface.html

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-u16-es8620-support-pcm32bit-768k-dsd512-dop-and-native-dsd-digital-interface.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/digital-interfaces/ja-d1-usb-spdif-i2s-lvds-hdmi-sdif3-digital-interface-32bit-384khz-dsd256-silver-p-12562.html

 

If ES8620 inside Gustard U16 were a winner, then it might be worth replacing either / both Accusilicon crystals with NDK DuCuLoN

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/326168-sdtrans384-mod-discussion-thread-2.html#post5518677

Quote

However, Their list price might be 1,800 USD/each or higher.

 

When DirectStream is fed via I2S, is it supposed to operate in slave mode while the source is the master?

[kelvinwsy]

5 hours ago, lasker98 said:

Has anyone been able to successfully bridge onboard LAN adapter and pci nic in Windows Server 2012 R2? My current configuration is sms-200 Neo configured for MPD/DLNA connected via ethernet cable to switch. CAPS V2 server running JRiver as DLNA server also connected to same switch via ethernet cable. Switch is connected via ethernet to router. Synology NAS is connected to same router via ethernet.  JRiver library is on NAS. I use JRemote on iPod for control point. All this has worked fine prior to attempting to bridge.

 

I've attempted various methods to make a bridge with my original onboard LAN port and a new PCI Intel single port nic (using DHCP for ip addresses for nics, using static ips, using different subnets as described by clipper in posts around page 13 of this thread)but when attempting to play files from NAS through JRiver all I get is severe stuttering during playback. I'm able to play Radio Paradise through JRiver with no issues which tells me that the internet side is working. It appears the issue is something to do with connectivity to the NAS with bridging. I pinged NAS, sms-200 and bridge and all seems ok (oms, no packet loss). I ran tracert on CAPS pc and it shows nothing off.

 

I've read up to page 100 on this read and so far have seen no definitive instructions for bridging server 2012 r2. Some seem to have usaed wifi dongle, others didn't. Some used dhcp server, some didn't. Googl search hasn't found anything helpful at all other than the links posted at beginning of this thread about bridging in windows 10. All I see for server 2012 is instructions for teaming.

 

I'm very frustrated at this point after spending yesterday and so far today on this. I can delete the bridge and reconfigure to original connections and back to listening to music at least. That may very well end up as my only solution but after all this time spent on something that seems so simple, I hate to give up now. I'm hoping some kind soul can take pity on me and point me in the right direction.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Bill

I am using Win Server 2016 Core Mode with Audiophile Optimizer and Fidelizer 8.2 Pro on a 6700k HQplayer to my SOTM 200 Ultra Neo

I use this as Hardware bridging

[Dev]

2 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Agree @dev about the I2S input to PS audio DACs. I’ve found it better generally than the USB that’s why I built my DIY I2S streamer. However now I’m back to usb again with the NUC and finding it superb.  You never know where this journey is going next.

 

Down the line I’ll be looking out how to tap I2S from an NUC. 

 

Cool. Good to know. I haven't compared with the NUC yet as I am using a different DAC at the moment. Will see what the new firmware brings. There is always a something next in this hobby ?