A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[vortecjr]

7 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

How can I say this...the sonicTransporter isn't as good as it could be?  I think the hardware side of it is too easily duplicated and not as well designed as the Rendu.

 I assume you mean compared to other music servers for local playback. As mentioned in my last post it’s primarily intended for streaming. As a Roon server it exceeds the minimum requirements. Did you know there are a few prebuilt units sold that don’t meet the minimum Roon requirements. There is even one that recently won an award that can’t support a large library and there was no mention of that fact. As for being duplicated...you are correct because they are built mostly with off the shelf parts. Even the ones we use to build can be duplicated, but people still bought them because the didn’t want to tinker. I dont have to tell you how much time and money goes into researching this stuff. 

[spotforscott]

22 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

The sonicTransporters are designed primarily for streaming so you would not need at JS-2 level power supply with it. comparing for local playback in not really proper. They can play music locally and you can discuss options for that with Andrew at SGC. 

2

I guess it comes down to benefits of faster i7 processing (for Roon DSP upsampling) vs better power supply with Mac Mini. I will be using this with my Chord DAVE and eventually BlueDAVE, so not sure the processing side matters because any upsampling will be handled with my Chord equipment. As such, I am thinking that the mac mini combo is a better choice because better power supplies can make a real difference. Or am I missing something? 

[vortecjr]

11 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

I wholeheartedly agree with that suggestion, especially Sonore already worked closely with SolidRun for their Sonicorbiter SE.

 

As @romaz mentioned recently, all we need is a great carrier board (for their SolidPC Q4) so that everything could be powered directly with dedicated power sources while the excellent LT3045 could be deployed strategically

 

I want to design my carrier board.

http://forum.solid-run.com/hardware-f39/i-want-to-design-my-carrier-board--t3262.html

https://www.solid-run.com/intel-braswell-family/solidpc-q4-carrier-board/

 

SolidPC Q4 Carrier Documentation & Block Diagram | SolidRun

https://wiki.solid-run.com/doku.php?id=products:ibx:documents

 

Tiniest Braswell COM ships, with 4K video, GbE, up to 8GB RAM

http://linuxgizmos.com/tiniest-braswell-module-delivers-the-goods-including-4k-video/

 

Braswell SOM – System On Module

https://www.solid-run.com/intel-braswell-family/braswell-som-system-on-module/

For the record there was no working closely with SolidRun and you will find those links useless when you really get into it;) We just bought the processor from them for the micro/ultra the rest was mostly up to us. 

 

Anyway, why go through the expense and time to build a project based on an Atom processor? If all you need is more CPU / RAM we could put a quad core ARM processor with 2x RAM under the hood of an ultraRendu. The design of the ultraRendu main board is already ful linear regulated, but we would need to check all that against the spec of the more powerful module. Not sure what why any of this would be needed though.

[vortecjr]

5 minutes ago, spotforscott said:

I guess it comes down to benefits of faster i7 processing (for Roon DSP upsampling) vs better power supply with Mac Mini. I will be using this with my Chord DAVE and eventually BlueDAVE, so not sure the processing side matters because any upsampling will be handled with my Chord equipment. As such, I am thinking that the mac mini combo is a better choice because better power supplies can make a real difference. Or am I missing something? 

There is a lot of talk on CA about upsampling, but from customer feedback that I personally receive and obtain through support most people don’t bother with it. The only way to know for sure with your devices is to try it. I would only update the power supply for local playback and not for streaming. 

[Cornan]

What about a cloud based PC? Is there anyone that have tried this type of solution for audio?

 

https://shadow.tech/gben/technology

 

I am all up in the clouds and IME using a (tweaked out) setup with Aries Mini. FLAC files saved to Google Drive sounds really good controlled via BubbleDS Next/LightningDS platform. My router end almost looks like a power station though!  

 

Anybody knows if a cloud based PC would work with Roon with a Roon-ready end point?

 

[vortecjr]

3 minutes ago, Cornan said:

What about a cloud based PC? Is there anyone that have tried this type of solution for audio?

 

https://shadow.tech/gben/technology

 

I am all up in the clouds and IME using a (tweaked out) setup with Aries Mini. FLAC files saved to Google Drive sounds really good controlled via BubbleDS Next/LightningDS platform. My router end almost looks like a power station though!  

 

The people I interact with are using Tidal if they are streaming from the net.

[Cornan]

8 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

The people I interact with are using Tidal if they are streaming from the net.

 

Me too! Tidal is my main music source, but I just find that cloud saved FLAC sounds really good. So far the music I have got stored on Google Drive is music that is not available on Tidal. I intend to make a direct comparence during the weekend to see if that holds true using the same FLAC album (Mimicking Birds - Layer of Us). In the mean time I am interested to know if anyone else have experiences with cloud saved audio solutions?

[spotforscott]

24 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

There is a lot of talk on CA about upsampling, but from customer feedback that I personally receive and obtain through support most people don’t bother with it. The only way to know for sure with your devices is to try it. I would only update the power supply for local playback and not for streaming. 

For local playback I use a Synology NAS, so isn't the server involved in both streaming and local playback? As you can tell, my technical knowledge is limited. Just trying to figure out best option. I will use all of this with an endpoint like the Rendu or sotm...  thx

[tapatrick]

5 hours ago, hurka said:

Sparky little hungry and picky ,think the new lps1.2 the best choice.can upsampling amazingly, play via usb3 with externally powered ssd also perfectly.

Will power it with my P Hynes SR4

[tz1963]

13 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

$1,500? Supermicro SuperServer E200-8B seemed to be a good start because of its excellent motherboard X10SBA

 

https://www.supermicro.com/products/system/Mini-ITX/SYS-E200-8B.cfm

https://www.supermicro.com/manuals/superserver/mini-itx/MNL-1688.pdf

 

We could pay more to customize the options

 

https://www.abmx.com/supermicro-sys-e200-8b

https://www.thinkmate.com/system/superserver-e200-8b

https://www.sourcecode.com/system/superserver-e200-8b

http://www.acmemicro.com/Product/Customize/15504/Supermicro-E200-8B-Mini-iTX-Intel-Celeron-J1900-

 

It came with their own MCP-250-10117-0N power adapter so we could do a little bit better with 12V iFi Audio iPower

 

https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/

https://www.amazon.com/iFi-iPower-12V-Power-Supply/dp/B01LZD8SHJ

 

Or it's actually a good idea to get the barebone for less than 300 bucks

 

http://shop.ironnetworks.com/supermicro-superserver-sys-e200-8b

http://atacomipc.com/program/print_ipc_spec.cgi?Item_code=MIPC_SUPE_E2_26

https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-Barebone-Components-Other-SYS-E200-8B/dp/B00T4XV1Y8

http://www.wiredzone.com/supermicro-servers-compact-embedded-processor-sys-e200-8b-10023745

https://www.compsource.com/pn/SYSE2008B/Supermicro-428/Superserver-E2008b-black-Syse2008b/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SuperMicro-SYS-E200-8B-Mini-ITX-Server-with-X10SBA-Motherboard-/361650942796

 

Then we're left with approximately $1,200, both RAM and SSDs are very affordable these days.

I have a Supermicro X10SBA-O, which I power with a Mini-box.com picoPSU-150-XT – 150 W DC-DC ATX power supply. It replaces a Gigabyte ga-n3160tn and the Supermicro is clearly better, simply quieter and less glare.

For those considering the X10SBA, it can be quite picky with RAM, so I had to get new RAM rather than use old ones that I still had, adding to the cost.

But I was wondering if it was better to power it with a 12v 4-pin DC connector. Would that be an improvement? And which one should I get? Any suggestions would be helpful.

[jean-michel6]

I do have a dual pc set up with x10 sba board. 

I am using only the 12v connector to power them. 

All the accessories have their own dedicated psu. 

I have been able to power the board with simple 12v 1.8A IFI power psu. 

The results are already very good. 

You want really to avoid the pico psi which is so noisy. 

I used to have a gigabyte set up with 4 battery psu 2 for the CPU and 2 for the pico psu. 

Results were far away for the X10 sba. 

I will later power them with sotm sps 500

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

I do have a dual pc set up with x10 sba board. 

I am using only the 12v connector to power them. 

All the accessories have their own dedicated psu. 

I have been able to power the board with simple 12v 1.8A IFI power psu. 

The results are already very good. 

You want really to avoid the pico psi which is so noisy. 

I used to have a gigabyte set up with 4 battery psu 2 for the CPU and 2 for the pico psu. 

Results were far away for the X10 sba. 

I will later power them with sotm sps 500

Try cloud saved files. Don't tell me how it sounds. Tell yourself and others how it compares. But before you do. Upgrade your power supply, regulation and isolation at your router end.

[RickyV]

Analyze this

 

 

[rickca]

4 hours ago, tz1963 said:

I have a Supermicro X10SBA-O, which I power with a Mini-box.com picoPSU-150-XT – 150 W DC-DC ATX power supply. It replaces a Gigabyte ga-n3160tn and the Supermicro is clearly better, simply quieter and less glare.

I'd love to understand why the Supermicro board sounds so much better than the Gigabyte.  You are powering the two boards the same way, right?

[Lebouwsky]

56 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

I do have a dual pc set up with x10 sba board. 

I am using only the 12v connector to power them. 

All the accessories have their own dedicated psu. 

I have been able to power the board with simple 12v 1.8A IFI power psu. 

The results are already very good. 

You want really to avoid the pico psi which is so noisy. 

I used to have a gigabyte set up with 4 battery psu 2 for the CPU and 2 for the pico psu. 

Results were far away for the X10 sba. 

I will later power them with sotm sps 500

Can you be a bit more specific about how you power the mb and “accessoires”,  I don’t quite understand. Do you mean you power the the entire mb with cpu and drive with just the 12v dc input?

[tz1963]

9 hours ago, rickca said:

I'd love to understand why the Supermicro board sounds so much better than the Gigabyte.  You are powering the two boards the same way, right?

I've been powering both with a Keces P8. The Gigabyte was already very good, but I could not get rid of glare in the high notes, for example choral or soprano voices. That has now softened quite a bit.

[rickca]

58 minutes ago, tz1963 said:

I've been powering both with a Keces P8. The Gigabyte was already very good, but I could not get rid of glare in the high notes, for example choral or soprano voices. That has now softened quite a bit.

Thanks for clarifying the nature of the improvement.  I'm curious about what technology difference between the motherboards might account for the improvement.

[vortecjr]

21 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Me too! Tidal is my main music source, but I just find that cloud saved FLAC sounds really good. So far the music I have got stored on Google Drive is music that is not available on Tidal. I intend to make a direct comparence during the weekend to see if that holds true using the same FLAC album (Mimicking Birds - Layer of Us). In the mean time I am interested to know if anyone else have experiences with cloud saved audio solutions?

BubbleUPnP and the MPD/DLNA output supports this. I hadn’t tried it though. 

[vortecjr]

21 hours ago, spotforscott said:

For local playback I use a Synology NAS, so isn't the server involved in both streaming and local playback? As you can tell, my technical knowledge is limited. Just trying to figure out best option. I will use all of this with an endpoint like the Rendu or sotm...  thx

It’s a very good server and you might be able to play locally from it. It’s mostly used as a DLNA server though to stream to devices around the house. I run their Synology DiskStation which is there DLNA server and use my ultraRendu in MPD/DLNA output mode. 

[vortecjr]

16 hours ago, tz1963 said:

I have a Supermicro X10SBA-O, which I power with a Mini-box.com picoPSU-150-XT – 150 W DC-DC ATX power supply. It replaces a Gigabyte ga-n3160tn and the Supermicro is clearly better, simply quieter and less glare.

For those considering the X10SBA, it can be quite picky with RAM, so I had to get new RAM rather than use old ones that I still had, adding to the cost.

But I was wondering if it was better to power it with a 12v 4-pin DC connector. Would that be an improvement? And which one should I get? Any suggestions would be helpful.

Are you sure you can bypass the ATX power input and only use the 4 pin connector? That 4 pin connector is usually for the processor and typically fed from the Pico. We we use to feed some motherboards via the 4 pin connector, but they did not have ATX power inputs and were intended to use the 4 pin connector or external power via a single pin barrel connector. 

[lmitche]

4 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Are you sure you can bypass the ATX power input and only use the 4 pin connector? That 4 pin connector is usually for the processor and typically fed from the Pico. We we use to feed some motherboards via the 4 pin connector, but they did not have ATX power inputs and were intended to use the 4 pin connector or external power via a single pin barrel connector. 

Jesus R, the Supermicro board can be powered from either the 24 pin atx connector, four pin 12 volt connector, or both simultaneously.

 

Innuous uses a 20 pin 12 volt Pico power supply and the 12 volt 4 pin connector simultaneously powered from two separate 12 lpsus.

[vortecjr]

27 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Jesus R, the Supermicro board can be powered from either the 24 pin atx connector, four pin 12 volt connector, or both simultaneously.

 

Innuous uses a 20 pin 12 volt Pico power supply and the 12 volt 4 pin connector simultaneously powered from two separate 12 lpsus.

That is not what the manual says. It says,

“ATX PWR & 12V DC PWR

Connectors (JPW1 & 

PJ1)

The 24-pin ATX power connector

(JPW1) is used to provide power to

the motherboard. The 4-pin 12V DC

PWR connector (PJ1) can also be

used as an optional power source

when ATX power supply is not avail-

able. These power connectors meet

the SSI EPS 12V specification. See

the table on the right for pin defini-

tions”

[seeteeyou]

They also had a similar discussion here

 

https://superuser.com/questions/722128/can-a-motherboard-work-when-only-supplied-with-atx12v

 

Basically they could get away with only 12V via 4-pin connector simply because of the Mini ITX form factor. In other words, we couldn't have done that if we're talking about an ATX motherboard.

 

Furthermore, Supermicro also used the word or as follows

 

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/celeron/x10/x10sba-l.cfm

Quote

10. 12V DC or ATX power source

 

Finally @jean-michel6 already proved that's accomplished with a single 12V iFi Audio iPower feeding that 4-pin connector ONLY

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=244&tab=comments#comment-774699

13 hours ago, jean-michel6 said:

I do have a dual pc set up with x10 sba board. 

I am using only the 12v connector to power them. 

All the accessories have their own dedicated psu. 

I have been able to power the board with simple 12v 1.8A IFI power psu. 

The results are already very good. 

You want really to avoid the pico psi which is so noisy. 

I used to have a gigabyte set up with 4 battery psu 2 for the CPU and 2 for the pico psu. 

Results were far away for the X10 sba. 

I will later power them with sotm sps 500

 

[RickyV]

Analyze this

 

 

[RickyV]

Sorry didn’t work the first time