A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[R1200CL]

3 hours ago, AmusedToD said:

Anyways, is anyone in the USA willing to buy the thing and then resell it to me (ship it to Europe) and earn a few bucks for the hassle?

 

If you Scandinavia : http://www.jetcarrier.com/

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

PM me if you find anyone. I'll do likewise.

 

@scan80269 is doing the SU-1 mods. Just have Tim ship to him. 

[R1200CL]

On 28.8.2017 at 11:11 PM, Bruce Orr said:

What is the best Paul Hynes "model" to power a Netgear Nighthawk router. It requires a maximum of 34 watts. Do models like the S3, 5 or 7 come with socket plugcord AND a connecting cord with appropriate male jack for the router?  Is a separate regulator of some kind needed?

 

How about trying Gophert ?

http://www.dx.com/no/p/gophert-cps-3205-5a-32v-160w-portable-adjustable-dc-power-supply-black-eu-plug-396460#.Waflkno8yhD

 

@Cornan is a big fan of those, and claims very good results. 

 

 

[R1200CL]

17 hours ago, Cornan said:

starquad ac mains cable

 

Did you make one yourself ? From Canare 4S6 ?

 

Where is best to purchase the latest versions of 3205  ?

 

[R1200CL]

13 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Here is a reply to Em2016 with the same question:

 

If you read further down the thread you get some info how they are constructed as well.

 

I have bought my 4 Gopherts from Banggood.com https://www.banggood.com/GOPHERT-CPS-3205-0-32V-0-5A-Portable-Adjustable-DC-Power-Supply-110V220V-p-934530.html?rmmds=search

It have works great every time (and I buy quite a lot of other electronics from Banggood in general)! If you are not in a hurry I can recommend that you register and click on "Report lower price" or "Price alert" to get noticed when the price is reduced. They frequently reduces the price on them. I got two of mine for roughly SEK760 (~$95) excl. custom charges.

 

 

Thanks. 

 

I think this is the correct link. 

https://www.banggood.com/CPS-3205C-0-32V-0-5A-Portable-Adjustable-DC-Power-Supply-180-264V-p-974495.html?rmmds=search

 

And it's sold out. 

[R1200CL]

9 hours ago, Cornan said:

without active FPC

 

What is that FPC actually ? And the purpose ?

 

Yes, I see now you link is the new version, and cheaper as well. 

 

EDIT:

Anyway just ordered. Like to try it on my SonicTransporter ?

[R1200CL]

@Cornan

is this the DC blocker you're using:

 

http://www.atlhifi.com/shop/fully-assembled-devices/dc-blocker-trap-filter-assembled-in-case/

 

 

[R1200CL]

On 17.10.2017 at 10:22 PM, JohnSwenson said:

It seems a lot of people are getting confused by my posts on the subject of network leakage, I will try and state things in a more concrete manor.

 

This is relating to a switch which is what your network endpoint into your audio system is connected, this may be streamer (microRendu etc) a laptop or other computer Mac mini, PC etc). We shall call this the audio endpoint (AE)

 

Leakage current can get into the AE through the switch in two ways, from the power supply powering the switch, or from the cable connected to the rest of the network. The leakage coming from the network comes from the SMPS powering THOSE devices.

 

If the switch connected to the AE is powered by an SMPS, grounding the negative of output of the SMPS will shunt the leakage from that supply, but the leakage from the NETWORK will still go through. There is one exception, see the next section.

 

IF the switch is one of FS105 and FS108, grounding the negative of the supply will get rid of BOTH the leakage from the SMPS AND the network leakage. NOTE, this ONLY happens for these two switch types. Grounding the supply to a different switch type does NOT block network leakage.

 

If you are powering a switch from a linear supply, this gets rid of the leakage going through the PS of the switch, but NOT the network leakage. The only way to get rid of the network leakage is to use one of the above switches AND ground the negative of the supply powering the switch, no matter WHAT that supply might be. (linear, SMPS, LPS-1 etc)

 

If you are using an LPS-1 to power the switch, see the above rules for ANY supply. ANY supply includes the LPS-1. Thus IF you have one of the two named switches and you are powering the switch from an LPS-1, you must ground the output of the LPS-1 in order to block the network leakage. This will only work with one of those two switches. Grounding the output of the LPS-1 will NOT block leakage if you are using some other switch. It will not help if the LPS-1 is driving some other type of device. Thus there is no reason to ground the output of an LPS-1 if it is NOT driving one of the above named switches.

 

There is one exception to the last point. IF the LPS-1 is driving an ISO REGEN there can be a situation where the whole audio system is floating with respect to earth ground and a charge can build up which can show up as clicks and pops. ONE earth ground in such a system can alleviate this. ONE way to do this is to ground the negative of the supply powering the ISO REGEN. If this supply is an LPS-1 then you can try grounding the output of the LPS-1 to see if it fixes the clicks and pops.

 

Grounding the INPUT to the LPS-1 can help in other situations by shunting the high impedance leakage.

 

I hope this makes things clear, I'm running out of ways to say this.

 

John S.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

John

 

Is both high impedance noise/leakage as well as low impedance noise/leakage blocked by this very nice tweak ? (Using the mention devices of cause).

 

I think you only mentioned high impedance noise/leakage. 

Also I hope we in this setting means the same issue by using the words leakage and/or noise. 

 

I’ve noticed the Cisco you tested did slightly better as I think you stated in another post it did a totally block. 

It would be interesting if you could test the Cisco SF110D-05 as it seems to still be widely available and cheaper than those old ones offered on eBay. and hopefully that switch obtain the same results as the already tested Cisco.  Since it’s a 10/100 only, it may even be more suitable for our use. 

 

Maybe someone can send John a sample ?

(If he accept).

 

 

I’m just adding this post under for reference for others to read if needed. 

 

 

[R1200CL]

Edit to post above. It seems John has answered here:

 

 

 

But then the question is how to get rid of the low impedance leakage currents ?

 

Will the LPS-1 maybe cover that as you at the same time shunt DC out from LPS-1 to ground. (On that FS105/108 switch)

[R1200CL]

11 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

The barrel size for FS-105 v3 is 5.5 x 2.5 mm, but uses 12v instead of 7.5, in which case makes it more challenging if wanting to use an LPS-1 to power it.

 

My understanding is that there is no benefit what so ever to use the LPS-1 with the JS Ground Tweak (the JSGT ?)

 

And we’re only taking about that specific use. 

 

I can add that I for a long time have used. D-Link DES-100D quite old version powered by the LPS-1, and I think it’s giving small but good SQ lift. Have not done the JSGT yet, as I’ve just bought 4 off the FS105 V3, and would like to do the JSGT as a compartment between those two switches. 

 

Also the Cisco SF110 is widely available, so I will probably add that one to and test. That switch was EOL 2015. 

 

I don’t expect much difference in these test, but at least the JSGT will save me a LPS-1. 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

sent my Netgear GS-105 to John for testing and he'll have it today or tomorrow.  This is the gig version.

 

Which verson ? 

 

There exist a V2? version that looks different. Even has a reset button. Probably the correct number is GS-105E. It seems to have web interface as well as power off unused ports. 

 

Edit:

Is seems to exit a 105 V5 and a 105E V2 (with of cause lower V number also possible)

[R1200CL]

9 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Good news everyone. The Netgear GS105 has similar characteristics as the FS105. If you want gig speed and port isolation, this will work. 

 

John S let me know he will not be testing any more switches as the process is cumbersome and time consuming. 

 

Then it probably likely this one will do to

https://www.netgear.com/support/product/GS105Ev2.aspx#docs

 

Then you can switch of ports, and change speed in SW ?

 

Qiute cheap as well. 

[R1200CL]

http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT should probably widen the choice of MB. 

 

Here some examples:

http://atechfabrication.com/MC-2500_system_order_form.htm

 

(Even with Sotm PCI card)

 

 

[R1200CL]

On 31.10.2017 at 10:02 AM, str-1 said:

My Netgear FS105 v3 does not work with the LPS-1 (on either 5v or 7v), so I would have to use it with my iFi iPower 12v.  For the moment, I have chosen to use the ZyXEL ES-105A v3 with the LPS-1 running at 5v.

 

Very strange:

Then my post here might be wrong ?

 

[R1200CL]

On 31.10.2017 at 3:56 PM, Superdad said:

I tested and posted about this in the SMPS grounding thread last night. 

The Mean Well that works is 7.5V, whereas the highest setting of an LPS-1 is 7V at present. 

7V sees to be just outside of the range of the wide-range synchronous buck converter chip as implemented in the Netgear switch. 

 

Strange. Do you happen to have the GS version of Netgear available as well ?

Then maybe the GS version use uses a different chip, as per my post one hour ago in the SMPS grounding thread. 

[R1200CL]

On 3.11.2017 at 8:01 PM, ElviaCaprice said:

For 18K, I'm going to buy a DAVE and BLU MKII, like Roy, then who cares about the server, just keep it simple with a sCLK EX feeding it.

  I think we should start a server audio company, repackage a few components, stick our name on the encasing, load it with Windows 10 Pro, our own optimization and label it as our own or AO.  Build a flashy website.  We don't do anything but have others do the mods.  Just great customer service.

 

My suggestion is to hire space in a server park. Do everything on virtual computers. 

After all we’re talking about an Ethernet interface or ?

 

I have unlimited storage in the cloud for $99 a year. (Renting server capacity is more expensive). 

 

I would like to have one virtual Linux for HQPLAYER, and one for Roon, and probably one or two personal PC. (Still in cloud). 

 

You can easily access computers via RDT even on a iPad. 

 

Since this must look like these computers is part of your local network (until Roon accepts an external installation), You would need OpenVPN net 2 net or similar.  (I have used OpenVPN as a road warier together with ipCop, so this works well)

 

Spending money on good clocks, power, switces, AE (audio endpoints) seems like a good idea to me, but I’m not getting it on the computer side, unless you must be offline. Or lack speed. 

 

You may compare this way of thinking where the AE is a thin client. Exactly how many huge companies operate.

 

So what’s wrong with this approach, except, you can’t go offline, unless you have a synchronized copy of those virtual computers at home ?

 

[R1200CL]

@ElviaCaprice

What is the difference between streaming Tidal direct to a top of the line AE, vs adding computers in your home before the same AE ?

 

Assuming you have very good switches in both cases.

 

Also how will audio noise (whatever that is in this case) travel from a server park either if it’s your private or it owned by Jay-Z ?

[R1200CL]

6 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

I don't know what you think you are gaining by using an LPS-1 or an LPS with the Netgear switch. Just ground the negative DC line and you are good to go.

 

Not quite correct. But of cause SQ is another discussion...

 

 

[R1200CL]

22 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

the sCLK-EX server

 

Is that a product as well. (Server)  I've only see the clock board listed.

 

22 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

So now you are comparing different AE's, some without capable memory for data storage/streaming (to answer your first question). 

 

Yes, for streaming. Some products offer adding USB disks.

 

22 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Streaming from an online media source such as Tidal has it's difficulties for best SQ regardless of AE, in my opinion.   I don't think you could ever equal offline source in SQ all things being equal.

 

Well if that is the case, and most people agree, then of cause my point/suggestion may be of less value. Still could be cheaper, but we don't know for sure.

 

Still we could discuss the possibility using virtual PC's as they in theory should not be affected by the same noise as a real one.

Of cause the virtual will use the same I/O's as a physical one, but you should easily be able to switch of those you don't need.

 

I hope someone will test this out. It should probably have its own thread. It should cost you zero to try.

 

22 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

We just know that it works to reclock that streaming data with the sCLK-EX and isolate from noise.

 

Exactly, but you don't need a expensive computer for that. SoTm and others I think offers stand alone clocks. 
As I said I'm all for better PS and clocks on AE, switches etc.

 

I'm just trying to sell the idea that you may move everything else out far away. (But yes, as you claim, that will affect SQ)

 

22 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

let alone you still will need a server for any offline streaming

 

Of cause, if your requirement is offline, (which I then wouldn't call streaming) then you're correct.

 

Anyway I hope I got some people interested testing virtual computers. It may very well be a extremely good and cost effective solution.

 

[R1200CL]

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

Comparison 2: UR+IR vs. full trifecta medley

Here we compared the following:

• UR > ISO-R > DAC, with

• modded switch > modded sMS-200 > ISO-R > tX-USBultra > DAC. Cybershaft OP-14 connected to tX-USBultra clock input

 

Is the ISO REGEN in the chain better in your opinion ?

 

When we added the IR after the MicroRendu 1.4, in my system we found it added a curtain. (Well in fact it was when we removed the IR, we notice the small SQ lift)

 

With the 1.3 it may had some benefits. 

 

Maybe I have to test this more before I list the IR ?

[R1200CL]

4 hours ago, flkin said:

Since the LPS-1 DC input was an ungrounded Maxwell, there would possibly be a high impedance leakage current in the LPS-1 output.

 

It has been reported that grounding the Meanwell internally vs using a external wire makes a difference. I think John did measure as well.

Not sure if it makes difference in SQ tough.

 

Has anyone a good explanation why there is a difference making the shunt on the print of the Meanwell vs. using an external wire ?

Maybe a different power cable to the meanwell will make different measurements ?

[R1200CL]

10 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Too late! Everything is installed and buried away.

 

Is it the JSSG you have done ?

Basically added shield and a thin cable (like 24AWG) to loop the ends of the shield ?

 

You used this one ?

https://www.amazon.com/Tinned-Copper-Metal-Braided-Sleeving/dp/B01BIBQESG

 

[R1200CL]

38 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Please share some photos of your finished product.

 

You can purchase USB and Ethernet cables with this JSSG implemented. Other cables can be made on order. Even with your specified commercial cables available like the Belden brand.

 

"Nothing" beats the USPCB though

[R1200CL]

16 minutes ago, afrancois said:

I haven't heard of mu-metal before.

I've done the same but with 3M paper. 3M around cables isn't possible, so mu-metal tape would be interesting.

 

Here is a link of someone who's had very good results with mu-metal.

 

http://audiophile-musings.blogspot.nl/2015/08/mu-metal-part-1.html

http://audiophile-musings.blogspot.nl/2015/08/mu-metal-part-2.html

http://audiophile-musings.blogspot.nl/2015/08/mu-metal-part-3.html

 

 

Just had a quick look. It seems to me this is basically Faraday's Cage. (Or JSSG if you like).

Would be interesting to test on a switch. Maybe wrap around my MicroRendu, but I guess it already has enough "protection" ?

 

Wonder if just plain alu folio would do. Really need mu-metal ? Maybe not so good.

 

A quick google:

Mu-metal is a nickel–iron soft magnetic alloy with very high permeability, which is used for shielding sensitive electronic equipment against static or low-frequency magnetic fields. It has several compositions. One such composition is approximately 77% nickel, 16% iron, 5% copper and 2% chromium or molybdenum.

 

[R1200CL]

Here is the next level of cable shield:

http://custommagneticshielding.magneticshield.com/viewitems/magnetic-shielding-for-wiring-applications/co-netic-aacableshield

 

Of cause we need new boxes for the UR & MR, the SU-1, switches and more.

(SoTM as well.)

 

It remain to see how much difference the mu-metal actually  will do vs a normal Faraday's Cage ....