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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


austinpop
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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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On 9/4/2017 at 7:10 AM, rickca said:

You can use this same approach to galvanically isolate your music files.  Just substitute an external SATA SSD like a Samsung T5 or a bus-powered USB3 hard drive enclosure (with 2.5" drives) for the USB3 ethernet adapter.  I haven't tried this yet.  I'm a bit concerned whether sufficient current will get through the iGalvanic3.0 to satisfy these bus-powered devices.

 

Many thanks to @lmitche for coming up with these creative ideas with his Adnaco S3B solution.  I have adapted them to accommodate a network end-point.

Hi Rickca,

 

 Based on this input side idea, is this the correct configuration? :

 

Music server's Mobo eth port <-- Startech eth adapter <--  iGalvanic3.0 <-- SATA SSD or USB3.0 HDD enclosure

 

Have you compared iGalvanic3.0 --> Startech eth adapter --> mRendu output setup to ethernet port --> FMC fiber optic setup --> mRendu setup? Which you think will derive better sound quality? 

 

 

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4 hours ago, atxkyle said:

Has anyone else using the microRendu experienced frequent network conflicts (manifesting in loss of playback from Roon until you reboot the mR) when using this bridged-connection scheme?  And figured out how to resolve it?  

 

I suspect it has to do with the microRendu using a dynamic connection - static IP not supported in their OS. I contacted Sonore - the response was that they don't/won't support this connection scheme.

 

That's never been an issue here - and I've been running the bridged connection since just after it was suggested in this thread.  

 

I do have a reservation configured in my router for the microRendu so it always picks up the same IP address.

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Chord Hugo TT2 

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata Alpha and Delta power cords, Shunyata Alpha interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD60 speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps

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45 minutes ago, lateboomer said:

Hi Rickca,

 

 Based on this input side idea, is this the correct configuration? :

 

Music server's Mobo eth port <-- Startech eth adapter <--  iGalvanic3.0 <-- SATA SSD or USB3.0 HDD enclosure

 

Have you compared iGalvanic3.0 --> Startech eth adapter --> mRendu output setup to ethernet port --> FMC fiber optic setup --> mRendu setup? Which you think will derive better sound quality? 

 

 

Please refer back to my post https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-the-sms-200-and-microrendu/?do=findComment&comment=713963

 

What I meant was instead of 

USB3 port => iFi USB3 cable => iGalvanic3.0 => Startech USB3 ethernet adapter => BJC Cat 6A => microRendu 1.4/LPS-1

 

you could do this

USB3 port => iFi USB3 cable => iGalvanic3.0 => SATA SSD (Samsung T5) or USB3 enclosure with 2.5" hard drive

 

The first chain gives you a galvanically isolated ethernet port for the microRendu.  It is used instead of the motherboard ethernet port.

 

The second chain gives you a galvanically isolated SSD or hard drive for music files.  It is used instead of an internal SSD or hard drive.

 

The Startech ethernet adapter is just a USB3 ethernet adapter.  It would normally be used to add a gigabit ethernet port to a laptop that has an available USB3 port but doesn't have a gigabit ethernet port.

 

I haven't compared this solution to an FMC approach.  However, this whole idea is an adaptation of what @lmitche has done with an Adnaco S3B, which also uses fiber cable for galvanic isolation.  You may want to review his posts on that solution.  

http://www.adnaco.com/products/s3a/

 

NUC7PJYH/AL --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10 Version 2004/HDPLEX 300W/HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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Thank you. Your connection description is very clear now, and I realized my mistake.

 

Anyway, my music files setup in my system:

USB3 port => audioquest jitterbug (or earlier Regen versions powered by lps) => USB3 Minipro enclosure with 2.5" hard drive (powered by diy lps)

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9 hours ago, rickca said:

It's great that you've been able to source one.  Cybershaft sounds like a great name for some DPRK malware.

In my experience Cybershaft is a great company with an owner that that goes out of his/their way to build great products for users at a reasonable price.  

 

The DPRK is something else entirely....

Legacy Audio CaliberXD custom, dual Legacy Foundation Subs with Legacy Wavelet, Esoteric P-02, D-02, C-02, and A-02, Cybershaft Custom Premium Limited OP21 10 mHz Clock, SHUNYATA TRITON v3 & TYPHON QR, Environmental Potentials EP-2050 & EP2750, CH Copper Busbar Main & GE Sub-panel, 20-amp dedicated circuits, Dual 10’ Ground Rods, CADWELD bonding, Avatar Acoustics AfterBurner8 duplexes (5), Elrod MASTER SERIES Statement Gold Powercords (4), Elrod Statement Gold Powercords (2), Elrod Statement Silver Powercords (1), Elrod Statement Gold XLR (2 pair), Shunyata SIGMA AES/EBU 110ohm (2), Shunyata SIGMA CLOCK-50 (3), Shunyata SIGMA XLR, Shunyata Anaconda Zitron XLR, B.M.C. PureUSB1, Elrod Statement Gold custom speaker cables, Elrod MASTERS SERIES SG JUMPERS (4), Adona AV45CS4, AV45, Composite Audio CF-2010, HRS DPX Damping Plates (11), Stillpoints UltraSS w/Ultra Bases

 

Computer Audio/Rip Playback: Apple MacBook Pro 15” 2019, 6-core i9, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD (Music Library, Playback S/W & O/S here), Audirvana+ v3, iTunes, etc….

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3 hours ago, hurka said:

Great specs for phase noise and great Allen performance; are you including this as you plan to build the sub-assembly shown and use it in your system?   If so, it would great to hear more details,...power supply that will be involved, etc..and any testing of the finished product in your system.  Thanks for posting this!

Legacy Audio CaliberXD custom, dual Legacy Foundation Subs with Legacy Wavelet, Esoteric P-02, D-02, C-02, and A-02, Cybershaft Custom Premium Limited OP21 10 mHz Clock, SHUNYATA TRITON v3 & TYPHON QR, Environmental Potentials EP-2050 & EP2750, CH Copper Busbar Main & GE Sub-panel, 20-amp dedicated circuits, Dual 10’ Ground Rods, CADWELD bonding, Avatar Acoustics AfterBurner8 duplexes (5), Elrod MASTER SERIES Statement Gold Powercords (4), Elrod Statement Gold Powercords (2), Elrod Statement Silver Powercords (1), Elrod Statement Gold XLR (2 pair), Shunyata SIGMA AES/EBU 110ohm (2), Shunyata SIGMA CLOCK-50 (3), Shunyata SIGMA XLR, Shunyata Anaconda Zitron XLR, B.M.C. PureUSB1, Elrod Statement Gold custom speaker cables, Elrod MASTERS SERIES SG JUMPERS (4), Adona AV45CS4, AV45, Composite Audio CF-2010, HRS DPX Damping Plates (11), Stillpoints UltraSS w/Ultra Bases

 

Computer Audio/Rip Playback: Apple MacBook Pro 15” 2019, 6-core i9, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD (Music Library, Playback S/W & O/S here), Audirvana+ v3, iTunes, etc….

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8 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

That's never been an issue here - and I've been running the bridged connection since just after it was suggested in this thread.  

 

I do have a reservation configured in my router for the microRendu so it always picks up the same IP address.

Thanks, kennyb123.  I will try giving it a reservation on my router and see if that helps. 

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3 hours ago, zephyr24069 said:

In my experience Cybershaft is a great company with an owner that that goes out of his/their way to build great products for users at a reasonable price.  

 

The DPRK is something else entirely....

My comment about DPRK malware was a joke!  Perhaps English is not your native language?  Anyway, I certainly did not mean to insult the company.

NUC7PJYH/AL --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10 Version 2004/HDPLEX 300W/HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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Yes, English is my native language.  I saw your posted joke and was making a comment, nothing more.

Legacy Audio CaliberXD custom, dual Legacy Foundation Subs with Legacy Wavelet, Esoteric P-02, D-02, C-02, and A-02, Cybershaft Custom Premium Limited OP21 10 mHz Clock, SHUNYATA TRITON v3 & TYPHON QR, Environmental Potentials EP-2050 & EP2750, CH Copper Busbar Main & GE Sub-panel, 20-amp dedicated circuits, Dual 10’ Ground Rods, CADWELD bonding, Avatar Acoustics AfterBurner8 duplexes (5), Elrod MASTER SERIES Statement Gold Powercords (4), Elrod Statement Gold Powercords (2), Elrod Statement Silver Powercords (1), Elrod Statement Gold XLR (2 pair), Shunyata SIGMA AES/EBU 110ohm (2), Shunyata SIGMA CLOCK-50 (3), Shunyata SIGMA XLR, Shunyata Anaconda Zitron XLR, B.M.C. PureUSB1, Elrod Statement Gold custom speaker cables, Elrod MASTERS SERIES SG JUMPERS (4), Adona AV45CS4, AV45, Composite Audio CF-2010, HRS DPX Damping Plates (11), Stillpoints UltraSS w/Ultra Bases

 

Computer Audio/Rip Playback: Apple MacBook Pro 15” 2019, 6-core i9, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD (Music Library, Playback S/W & O/S here), Audirvana+ v3, iTunes, etc….

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14 hours ago, austinpop said:

I was able to locate an OP-14, and it has been shipped to me.

Well done sourcing the OP-14, perHabst another listening session with @limniscate can be scheduled?

 

18 hours ago, austinpop said:

BTW - Does the DAC2v2 SE do native DSD or does it require DoP?

It can do native DSD

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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3 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes indeed! Waiting for his Paul Hynes SR7 to come in as well, and then we'll have a lot to dig into.

We love details and pictures!  Good luck with all of your upgrades!!!

Legacy Audio CaliberXD custom, dual Legacy Foundation Subs with Legacy Wavelet, Esoteric P-02, D-02, C-02, and A-02, Cybershaft Custom Premium Limited OP21 10 mHz Clock, SHUNYATA TRITON v3 & TYPHON QR, Environmental Potentials EP-2050 & EP2750, CH Copper Busbar Main & GE Sub-panel, 20-amp dedicated circuits, Dual 10’ Ground Rods, CADWELD bonding, Avatar Acoustics AfterBurner8 duplexes (5), Elrod MASTER SERIES Statement Gold Powercords (4), Elrod Statement Gold Powercords (2), Elrod Statement Silver Powercords (1), Elrod Statement Gold XLR (2 pair), Shunyata SIGMA AES/EBU 110ohm (2), Shunyata SIGMA CLOCK-50 (3), Shunyata SIGMA XLR, Shunyata Anaconda Zitron XLR, B.M.C. PureUSB1, Elrod Statement Gold custom speaker cables, Elrod MASTERS SERIES SG JUMPERS (4), Adona AV45CS4, AV45, Composite Audio CF-2010, HRS DPX Damping Plates (11), Stillpoints UltraSS w/Ultra Bases

 

Computer Audio/Rip Playback: Apple MacBook Pro 15” 2019, 6-core i9, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD (Music Library, Playback S/W & O/S here), Audirvana+ v3, iTunes, etc….

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Received my Paul Hynes SR7 the other day.  Unfortunately I couldn't wait around in the USA any longer and am back here in Costa Rica.  I won't be able to test it out on my system for another year. 

On another note, had to send back my NUC and S-clk EX board to SOtM.  Hopefully we can resolve this issue. 

For now I'm really liking my SQ in my current system below.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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48 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Received my Paul Hynes SR7 the other day.  Unfortunately I couldn't wait around in the USA any longer and am back here in Costa Rica.  I won't be able to test it out on my system for another year. 

On another note, had to send back my NUC and S-clk EX board to SOtM.  Hopefully we can resolve this issue. 

For now I'm really liking my SQ in my current system below.

Such a bummer; first, you wait a long time to get the Hynes, then you wait another year? On the other hand, you will be in Costa Rica, which certainly has its benefits. 

 

As someone else who is waiting on a Hynes PSU, I'm curious:  When did you order and pay for your SR7?

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28 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

Such a bummer; first, you wait a long time to get the Hynes, then you wait another year? On the other hand, you will be in Costa Rica, which certainly has its benefits. 

 

As someone else who is waiting on a Hynes PSU, I'm curious:  When did you order and pay for your SR7?

Oh well, that's the way the ball bounces.  Paul did try to get it to me in time but unfortunately we hit a snafu in shipping, lost paperwork.  I ordered/payed on May 18th.  Paul had completed the SR7 back in late August. 

I see you had ordered one in March, must have got lost on Paul's cue or that he didn't have the parts for the SR5.  If it wasn't for Roy's great success with Paul I may have questioned the transaction.  But given the reputed quality of his builds, I was willing to forgo the expected customer service we Americans have come to expect.   This is definitely not for everyone. 

I am sure Paul will get your unit to you.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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43 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

Such a bummer; first, you wait a long time to get the Hynes, then you wait another year? On the other hand, you will be in Costa Rica, which certainly has its benefits. 

 

As someone else who is waiting on a Hynes PSU, I'm curious:  When did you order and pay for your SR7?

 

4 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Oh well, that's the way the ball bounces.  Paul did try to get it to me in time but unfortunately we hit a snafu in shipping, lost paperwork.  I ordered/payed on May 18th.  Paul had completed the SR7 back in late August. 

I see you had ordered one in March, must have got lost on Paul's cue or that he didn't have the parts for the SR5.  If it wasn't for Roy's great success with Paul I may have questioned the transaction.  But given the reputed quality of his builds, I was willing to forgo the expected customer service we Americans have come to expect.   This is definitely not for everyone. 

I am sure Paul will get your unit to you.

 

You're on his good list.  Myself and others placed orders before you.  I ordered an SR7 and got nothing but excuses of which I now question the validity.  He received my funds on April 21st.  I did make a change on June 21st but he hadn't started production yet so not sure of the impact if any.  Mine is scheduled for shipment as I finally got a tracking number.  Some have patience of a saint.  This has certainly challenged mine.  I just hope it is all worth it.  I'll be sure to share pictures and experiences once it arrives.

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14 hours ago, zephyr24069 said:

Great specs for phase noise and great Allen performance; are you including this as you plan to build the sub-assembly shown and use it in your system?   If so, it would great to hear more details,...power supply that will be involved, etc..and any testing of the finished product in your system.  Thanks for posting this!

This time just the plan,but I have some U caps board 16v(max) 20F 6pcs fed my atx mobo before,i think this is the finest psu in this (50-50.000$)range:D

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On 9/12/2017 at 8:21 PM, austinpop said:

Just a quick teaser on my next area of exploration.

 

I've had my eye on the Cybershaft reference clock, ever since @hols wrote about it. I also got @zephyr24069's help and advice. He put me in touch with Kenji at Cybershaft, from whom I learned that their entire production run was sold out, and there was no ETA on a new product with the quality of the OP-14.

 

Well, my luck has turned. I was able to locate an OP-14, and it has been shipped to me. My intent is to use this as a reference clock for my trifecta, feeding the single 50 ohm master clock input of my tX-USBultra.

 

Just to set the context, the OP-14 is a curated unit, where the OCXO has been measured to have a 1Hz phase noise of -114.0 to -114.9 dBc/Hz. The Ref 10, by contrast, is even better, with a claimed phase noise of   -116 dBc/Hz at 1Hz. But at a third of the cost used, the OP-14 seems like a promising option.

 

Once I have my findings, I will report back. 

Congratulations!

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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2 hours ago, paulhynes said:

Hey Guys,

 

Give me a break. You requested a custom build service to provide a bespoke product that is not generally available off the shelf and certainly, according to all reports, not available elsewhere at this high level of performance. Custom build is completely different form ordering an off the shelf item which can be shipped out as soon as the packing and paperwork is completed.

 

Firstly my products are very popular (I guess this is my fault for designing products people like) and this also guarantees there will be a queue often with long lead times. Secondly, my ordering terms do state that lead times are estimates and unforeseen circumstances can affect lead times. How many unforeseen circumstances occur in any given time frame is unpredictable and they do happen, hence the inclusion in my ordering terms. I mean you no disrespect but I have to say that if you are not able to accept such terms of ordering, please do not order products from me. In future buy something off the shelf and accept the resulting performance level you will get from such sources.

 

ElviaCaprice, you forgot to mention that when ordering you did not inform me you would be leaving for Costa Rica by a certain time and in fact it was in August when you let me know. Disregarding that lead times had drifted this was very short notice and, at the time you notified me, it would have been impossible to get the power supply ready in time for shipment to your leaving date, as others were before you in the queue. It was fortunate that one of my other customers who was not in a hurry agreed to swap lead times with you which allowed me to finish your power supply early enough in theory to ship for delivery before you left for Costa Rica. But guess what, another unforeseen circumstance arose to delay the shipment when the parcel carrier managed to loose the shipment documentation. Sorry the parcel did not arrive in time, but due to the special circumstances involved, I did make a sincere effort to try to ensure it did.

 

John Zei, I guess you are one of the lucky ones and your life runs smoothly. I made no excuses but just explained why delays were occurring. Granted my remote location does cause complications. Trips to the mainland to deal with family medical issues are at least a three-day round trip for just one appointment. If there is more than one appointment for several screening tests and this can extend trips by several days. This year both my wife and daughter have had cancer screening tests on the mainland, and I have also had a variety of health tests to ensure I am healthy enough to continue with my planned business expansion. Regarding incoming materials and outgoing products, delivery times in both directions are often extended due to the complicated transit path shipments take just to get to and from the mainland which can easily be disrupted by bad weather events that prevent ferries from sailing. As there are no electronics or machinery suppliers on the islands these have to be ordered in from the mainland or in the case of the bar cutting band saw, to replace my damaged saw, from Germany. It was unfortunate that the one I ordered was too small to allow machining of the mains transformer reinforcement plates by literally 2mm and I ended up ordering the plates from the mainland with another delay due to the suppliers lead time, which was extended due to their holidays. I tend to design with discrete electronic components because it allows me to control circuit parameters that are important for high performance. Designing with integrated circuits can be rather limiting without access to adjust the actual chip circuitry. Unfortunately, component manufacturers are dropping discrete component inventory in favour of mass market integrated circuit solutions with their attendant limitations, so I have had spend considerably more time this year sourcing components than in past years. Lead times for chassis and mains transformers have also been extended through summer. The cumulative effect of all these sourcing issues can create alterations in the customer queue depending on what has to be sourced. Your request to convert rail 1 to DR operation has also delayed lead times by the time required to build and test the additional regulator module as well as installing it in the power supply. Also spending several hours composing this post has extended lead times. People also have holidays and I am no exception. All these events all add up to extended lead times with my products.

 

It would appear that custom build is in disfavour due to the long lead times. Perhaps it is time for me to follow the path of other manufacturers and just have a few fixed products available off the shelf. No customisation, no alternative options on chassis, no adaptation for alternative applications future proofing the products, no hassle from people when things do not go according to plan. Now there is a plan.

 

Regards

Paul

 

Thanks for the lengthy response Paul.  Hopefully those waiting in line behind me don't stone me for delaying their orders.  I've emailed you personally as well.  I completely understand your need to defend yourself, and you should, but you also might want to apologize to your customers.  Regardless of situation or delay the core of the issue comes down to communication.  Take it for what it's worth, but if you provide your customers with status updates, or respond to their emailed communications in a timely manner, you'll eliminate 99% of what you've read in the CA forum or any other forum where you may see similar commentary from your customers.  Another guy in this forum said you had his money but hadn't responded to his emails since March.

 

At this point I personally don't know you.  I have compassion for your personal situations and how that impacts your business.  But I paid, up front, a couple thousand dollars and at times wondered if I'd ever hear from you again.  Believe it or not, giving someone I don't know a couple thousand dollars up front isn't something I typically do.  Your 2 months became 5.  Had you told me it would take 5 months my decision to purchase might have been different.  I gave you the option a couple times to just cancel which you declined, but now I'm grateful you're fulfilling the order.

 

Everything I said was true, laid to bear out on the table for good or bad.  I hope your PSU will be the best thing since sliced bread.  Then I can come in here and jump up and down about how it's improved my audio experience for the better, and believe me I'll do just that.  With pictures.  I could even make a video of it.  But if my experience is not all that, should I keep it to myself and let others go through the same?  Should a product reviewer, whether that be an audiophile or a common Amazon review only talk about the positives?

 

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