A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Always.Learning]

37 minutes ago, magnuska said:

Thanks for the write up. Have enyojed the ISO Regen/LPS -1 bundle a couple of days combined with soTm sms 200 ultra and TX USB Ultra , it is a large jump in SQ. I don`t have the clocked switch though. Feeding the internal DAC in my Vinnie Rossi integrated LIO amp.

 

No Lushcable but 2 very good USB cables from Triode Wire Labs TWL, ( Strange that these are not seen here more often) They are perhaps more famous for their powercables. 

 

 

 

 

Have you experimented with placement of the Iso Regen?

[magnuska]

Just now, Always.Learning said:

 

Have you experimented with placement of the Iso Regen?

 

No, I followed Austinpop and mozes recommendations in the mighty " massive " thread. Check out the index and read all about it If you have missed that.

[Always.Learning]

On 9/7/2017 at 11:22 AM, limniscate said:

I haven't received mine yet either and paid at the end of May.  He has responded to my emails though.

I already posted this in my separate thread on customer service problems with Paul Hynes, but I did hear from him a few days ago for the first time in over five months. Apparently my PSU will be shipping within a week or so. Yay! As I said in the other thread, I have never questioned Paul's good faith but I do question his attention to customer service. That said, you can probably count on a world class PSU as long as you are willing to wait a very long time, pay lots of $ up front, and live with spotty (at best) communication. I will report back when the PSU gets here. 

[Always.Learning]

2 minutes ago, magnuska said:

 

No, I followed Austinpop and mozes recommendations in the mighty " massive " thread. Check out the index and read all about it If you have missed that.

I thought Rajiv and mozes differed in their opinion on where to best place the IR, with Rajiv voting for between the sMS-200 and tX-USB (where I think it sounds best too) and mozes voting for right before the DAC. But I may not be recalling that correctly. 

[magnuska]

22 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

I thought Rajiv and mozes differed in their opinion on where to best place the IR, with Rajiv voting for between the sMS-200 and tX-USB (where I think it sounds best too) and mozes voting for right before the DAC. But I may not be recalling that correctly. 

No It could be me who got it wrong. I may got a feeling that the more general opinion though  was in favour of our position in between the two

[magnuska]

47 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

I already posted this in my separate thread on customer service problems with Paul Hynes, but I did hear from him a few days ago for the first time in over five months. Apparently my PSU will be shipping within a week or so. Yay! As I said in the other thread, I have never questioned Paul's good faith but I do question his attention to customer service. That said, you can probably count on a world class PSU as long as you are willing to wait a very long time, pay lots of $ up front, and live with spotty (at best) communication. I will report back when the PSU gets here. 

Glad you seem to receive it soon after long wait.

May I ask what Hynes version this is and what you will power?

I have been in contact with PH myself discussing a SR5 M2 powering boths my sotm sms-200 and my 19 v audioserver,

Nothing descided yet.

[Always.Learning]

4 minutes ago, magnuska said:

Glad you seem to receive it soon after long wait.

May I ask what Hynes version this is and what you will power?

I have been in contact with PH myself discussing a SR5 M2 powering boths my sotm sms-200 and my 19 v audioserver,

Nothing descided yet.

I haven't received it yet.

 

This is a custom SR5 with 48 volts of output to power my phono stage. 

[mozes]

1 hour ago, Always.Learning said:

I thought Rajiv and mozes differed in their opinion on where to best place the IR, with Rajiv voting for between the sMS-200 and tX-USB (where I think it sounds best too) and mozes voting for right before the DAC. But I may not be recalling that correctly. 

Thanks for your great post. I enjoyed reading it, awesome system!

Based on many tests, I came to the conclusion that the IR is best placed just before my tX USB ultra, so my preference is exactly like yours. So now the tX is between the IR and the Brooklyn.

[Always.Learning]

28 minutes ago, mozes said:

Thanks for your great post. I enjoyed reading it, awesome system!

Based on many tests, I came to the conclusion that the IR is best placed just before my tX USB ultra, so my preference is exactly like yours. So now the tX is between the IR and the Brooklyn.

It seems the three of us are in agreement, then. Have others with similar systems weighed in? (It's been a while since I've tried to catch up on this thread.)

[mozes]

45 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

It seems the three of us are in agreement, then. Have others with similar systems weighed in? (It's been a while since I've tried to catch up on this thread.)

More specifically, I found that the IR after the tX takes away some resolution. If you place the IR in front of the tX then you preserve the resolution of the tX and add to it a nice musical tone with more body and weight.

[ElviaCaprice]

1 hour ago, Always.Learning said:

It seems the three of us are in agreement, then. Have others with similar systems weighed in? (It's been a while since I've tried to catch up on this thread.)

Other than others, specifically Roy, have eliminated the Ethernet leg of the stream, thus the sotm-200 ultra and gone with a direct usb from motherboard via txbexp pcie card.  Clocks replaced are motherboard and txbexp via sclk EX board.  Optional to add a tx usb ultra and or iso regen.  Master clock for the sclk EX.

[limniscate]

If I'm remembering correctly, I like the ISO Regen before the tX, but @austinpop liked it better after.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Always.Learning said:

It seems the three of us are in agreement, then. Have others with similar systems weighed in? (It's been a while since I've tried to catch up on this thread.)

 

+1. If you hadn't already figured it out, I too preferred ISO-R before tX.

 

It's just like grammar - IR before tX except after sMS. OK - it's nothing like grammar.

 

1 minute ago, limniscate said:

If I'm remembering correctly, I like the ISO Regen before the tX, but @austinpop liked it better after.

 

Nope, same as you. 

[Bruce Orr]

Ok, guys. As a newbie, I could use a little coaching. I'm waiting for my ISO Regen to arrive and will have to make the same tuff decisions about where things go in the chain. I don't know what 'tX' or 'sMS' or some of the other short-hand abbreviations are so can't figure out how to apply to my system. 

 

So pls tell me what to change in my system below to get to your "agreed" and ""preferred" SQ sequence:

-Ethernet>ultraRendu (powered by LSP-1)>

-USPC USB A>B adapter (comes with ISO Regen) >

- ISO REGEN (powered by LSP-1) >

- Lush USB cable >

- DAC (Simaudio Moon 280D)

 

Thanks for your help!

[lmitche]

6 hours ago, Bruce Orr said:

Ok, guys. As a newbie, I could use a little coaching. I'm waiting for my ISO Regen to arrive and will have to make the same tuff decisions about where things go in the chain. I don't know what 'tX' or 'sMS' or some of the other short-hand abbreviations are so can't figure out how to apply to my system. 

 

So pls tell me what to change in my system below to get to your "agreed" and ""preferred" SQ sequence:

-Ethernet>ultraRendu (powered by LSP-1)>

-USPC USB A>B adapter (comes with ISO Regen) >

- ISO REGEN (powered by LSP-1) >

- Lush USB cable >

- DAC (Simaudio Moon 280D)

 

Thanks for your help!

Nothing to say, you got it!

[Cooler]

7 hours ago, Bruce Orr said:

Ok, guys. As a newbie, I could use a little coaching. I'm waiting for my ISO Regen to arrive and will have to make the same tuff decisions about where things go in the chain. I don't know what 'tX' or 'sMS' or some of the other short-hand abbreviations are so can't figure out how to apply to my system. 

 

So pls tell me what to change in my system below to get to your "agreed" and ""preferred" SQ sequence:

-Ethernet>ultraRendu (powered by LSP-1)>

-USPC USB A>B adapter (comes with ISO Regen) >

- ISO REGEN (powered by LSP-1) >

- Lush USB cable >

- DAC (Simaudio Moon 280D)

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Your IR is in right place, the main idea for IR is to provide the cleanest power to device, which consumes power from usb cable. Im going to do the same for my converter, as the power from mRendu/uRendu is already polluted and your dac(my converter in my setup) is getting dirty power, which of course has influence on SQ.

[Bamber]

16 hours ago, Always.Learning said:

Based on many tests, I came to the conclusion that the IR is best placed just before my tX USB ultra,

I agree with this.

[Bamber]

A few pics of the SOtM modded items which have just arrived back.

 

I can now hear why so many of you mod the Singxer SU-1, the soundstage/imaging is amazing with the REF 10 engaged.

 

 

[AmusedToD]

Congrats!

 

What was the cost for modyfing the SU-1? 

 

[Bamber]

30 minutes ago, AmusedToD said:

What was the cost for modyfing the SU-1? 

 

The sCLK-EX board was USD750 + USD100 installation cost, replacing the caps was USD20.

 

I also paid for a few other options like the master clock connection etc.

[elan120]

1 hour ago, Bamber said:

A few pics of the SOtM modded items which have just arrived back.

 

I can now hear why so many of you mod the Singxer SU-1, the soundstage/imaging is amazing with the REF 10 engaged.

 

 

 

 

 

Outstanding!  By looking at the mod picture, it appear they installed one output to the 22.5792MHz oscillator location, one output to the 24MHz oscillator (USB input) location, and one more output to the external connector.  Since it is not clear from the picture, did they not upgrade the 24.576MHz oscillator or they use the REF0 to control the output of both 22.5792MHz and 24.576MHz (my speculation)?  

[Bamber]

1 minute ago, elan120 said:

Since it is not clear from the picture, did they not upgrade the 24.576MHz oscillator or they use the REF0 to control the output of both 22.5792MHz and 24.576MHz (my speculation)?  

You are correct both internal clocks were replaced and I requested  the 3rd external clock point for a future upgrade project.

 

They have moved one internal clock point as you spotted as I asked them to make any changes they felt would bring an improvement.

[elan120]

1 minute ago, Bamber said:

You are correct both internal clocks were replaced and I requested  the 3rd external clock point for a future upgrade project.

 

They have moved one internal clock point as you spotted as I asked them to make any changes they felt would bring an improvement.

Thank you @Bamber for the clarification.  Using just one output and REF0 to control the output for both 22.5792MHz and 24.579MHz is a good efficient way to conserve one more output from the sCLK-EX board.  I was hoping SOtM will do the mod after seeing your post but they appear to change their mind now and not willing to mod SU-1 anymore.  I am working on changing out the USB input oscillator (24.000MHz) to see the effect, and consider further mod using sCLK-EX board to compare, and your positive input on the SQ improvement definitely is a good encouragement.

[feelingears]

@Always.Learning Nice work listening and reporting on the combinations. 

 

It was useful to read the comparisons.  Do you listen for any combination that seems to add up to more than the sum of the parts? 

 

 Totally subjective question, I know, but I feel that if your system is resolving enough (and yours seems to be!), you will hear subtle improvements as tipping the scale one way or the other for what you like to hear in an audio system.  At least, that is my experience.  It seems to me that the right cable with the right component and power supply (and power cables) add up to a lot. 

 

I suppose all of this is just tuning a system to taste, so I'm curious if you have any thoughts to share about that. Thank you.

 

 

[Always.Learning]

3 hours ago, feelingears said:

@Always.Learning Nice work listening and reporting on the combinations. 

 

It was useful to read the comparisons.  Do you listen for any combination that seems to add up to more than the sum of the parts? 

 

 Totally subjective question, I know, but I feel that if your system is resolving enough (and yours seems to be!), you will hear subtle improvements as tipping the scale one way or the other for what you like to hear in an audio system.  At least, that is my experience.  It seems to me that the right cable with the right component and power supply (and power cables) add up to a lot. 

 

I suppose all of this is just tuning a system to taste, so I'm curious if you have any thoughts to share about that. Thank you.

 

 

@feelingears  Thank you for the compliment!

 

My process for improving my system is multi-pronged.

 

First, I try to listen to a lot of music, in a lot of different contexts. I personally attend a good deal of chamber music concerts, recitals, jazz concerts, and the occasional pop or rock concert. I try to listen to other people's systems and have been fortunate to develop friendships with folks who care about audio in Puget Sound. I will be attending RMAF but generally prefer the more relaxed, quiet, real world environments of people's homes. 

 

Second, I try to read relevant websites and other sources of information for products that make a big difference in areas where I think my system could be improved. For the last year, that's mostly been in the digital realm, as I feel the advances in digital over the last couple years are rather large. Then I try to apply a critical lens to this information, looking for reviewers and individuals who have wide exposure to a good number of products and who also appear to be discerning. That sounds pretty subjective and I suppose it is. I put a lot more faith in people who have actually listened to products at length and who are willing to compare them with other products. I attribute some of my success in this area to my work as an attorney where I was paid to apply analytical and critical reasoning skills to large quantities of writing. But there's no substitute for long experience in reviewing the reviewers, whether they are amateurs or pros. After a while, you develop a sense for people who know what they are talking about. 

 

Third, I look for products that appear to provide good bang for the buck. That might be an Iso Regen for under $500 or it might be something a lot more expensive like a Chord DAVE. When I bought the DAVE, about 1.5 years ago, I thought I was killing three birds with one stone and thus getting good value (the three birds were a state of the art DAC, a killer headphone amp, and immunity to upstream sources -- I think I got the first two more or less right, but the third has turned out to be wildly inaccurate). Although I've spent way more on various upstream digital "improvers" and power supplies than I ever thought I would, those products have elevated my sound way beyond what I was getting when I was playing files from a laptop straight to the DAVE, and I still think DAVE represents good value. 

 

Fourth, I try to audition products at home in my system. You can't do this with every product (turntables, cartridges, and speakers are a challenge) but you can do it with quite a few. If it means I pay a restocking fee if I don't like the product, well, that may be worth it. If it means I resell the product at a modest loss, that's ok too. But there are quite a few sellers, commercial and non-commercial, who are willing to let you audition a product in your home without penalty if you just ask them pleasantly and courteously and/or you offer to put down a refundable deposit. 

 

Fifth, when I audition products or insert a new component in a system, I try to listen over a longish period of time before reaching any definite conclusions. I will generally postpone critical listening for weeks if possible. Sometimes the best A/B comparison is where you've listened to A for a long time and then insert B, then go back to A relatively quickly. 

 

Sixth, I think any great system needs a great foundation in terms of three things:  power, vibration control, and room tuning. Taking just one of these areas -- power -- I have experienced rather startling improvements by upgrading my dedicated circuits, paying attention to the circuits and outlets I'm using with each component, and using good power cords and a good power conditioner. All of the hard work that goes into component selection and matching won't pay off unless you address these foundational issues. 

 

Last and not least, I try to remember that it's about the music. In the right context, I can get goosebumps listening to my crappy car radio. You don't need megabucks to get goosebumps, you just need to be mindful and open to experience. 

 

Those are some of the key things that come to mind -- hope you find it useful.