A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Bamber]

2 minutes ago, elan120 said:

My bigger question is whether having the sCLK-EX clock output to router switch prior to music server be helpful elevating SQ at all?

I've been concentrating on having the sCLK-EX points fitted to everything from the switch to DAC at this stage.  The distances involved in my setup become an issue going further back.

 

 

 

 

 

I 

[rickca]

26 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Lots of questions packed in there, Rick! 

Yeah, I was just trying to figure out if there was a way to better balance the demand across your LPS-1's.  So you think the circuitry on the sCLK-EX used for synchronization with the 10 MHz external master clock would not increase current draw by much.  I'm only asking because you say you may already be pushing it with the LPS-1 on the tx-USBultra.  

 

Thanks for answering my question about the relative temperature of your LPS-1 units.

[austinpop]

29 minutes ago, rickca said:

Yeah, I was just trying to figure out if there was a way to better balance the demand across your LPS-1's.

 

Yep - understood.

 

29 minutes ago, rickca said:

So you think the circuitry on the sCLK-EX used for synchronization with the 10 MHz external master clock would not increase current draw by much.  I'm only asking because you say you may already be pushing it with the LPS-1 on the tx-USBultra.  

 

I withdraw my WAG - wild assed guess. Let me amend that to - I don't have a clue. But yes, I am concerned that I may be on the very edge - precipice? - of the LPS-1's operating range, and any little thing could tip me over!

 

29 minutes ago, rickca said:

Thanks for answering my question about the relative temperature of your LPS-1 units.

 

I'll have numbers tomorrow.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

One variable is the current drawn by the DAC attached to the USB output of the tX-USBultra. I just did the touch test with 4 fingers on the LPS-1 and I could barely hold it there 10 seconds.

 

I'm looking at the infrared thermometers on Amazon, and there are a bunch in the $10-20 range, although of questionable accuracy and reliability. Still, it may be worth trying one at that price.

 

Hi Guys:

 

Sorry to be slow in replying to your queries.  Just been busy getting more LPS-1s out the door and making sure that we maintain the pile of 80 that are to go out as part of ISO REGEN/UltraCap LPS-1 bundles next week (ISO REGEN boards finally arrive tomorrow so we can start fast programming, testing, and assembling again.).

 

So here is the full lowdown regarding heat and the LPS-1:

• Heat is created inside the unit by the ultracapacitors, a couple of inductors, a few lard resistors, and the regulators themselves.  And yes, the higher the current draw, the more heat that is dissipated.  The heat is conducted over all the planes of the PCB, into the air inside the mostly sealed case of the unit, by the PCB's contact at the edges where it slides into the rails of the case--and where the front and back plates press against the front and rear of the circuit board.  And since the case is all aluminum, it conducts that heat and acts as a heat-sink to the outside air.
• Every LPS-1 is capable of running continuously at its maximum output current rating of 1.1A.  Many of them test on my bench to 1.15A, and a few make it to 1.2A (the +/- of a whole bunch of parts tolerances are what cause the normal variation) If a board's over-current logic trips it off (flashing red) at lower than 1.1A or higher than 1.2A then we reflash the FPGA with code for a threshold that brings the unit back into the 1.1-1.2A range.
• The voltage of the "energizing"/charging supply (7.5V to 12V is the permitted range) does not appreciably effect the heat dissipated (some parts stay cooler, some parts stay hotter depending upon the charge voltage).
• While an LPS-1 will indeed get very hot when run continuously at full 1.1A output, that heat will almost never be the cause of an LPS-1 shutting off.  Only drawing more than its 1.1A rated current will cause it to "trip."
• Even when "blazing hot" on the outside, the temperature of the parts on the circuit board is only at about half what they are rated for. (We have put probes inside the case and on the board to determine this.)
• We do not believe that running the LPS-1 continuously at max. current shortens its life-span appreciably.  The ultracapacitor banks will charge/discharge/switch more frequently with higher current usage, but John once calculated the life-span of the caps we use at about 22 years--based on something like 0.8-0.9A continuous usage.
• With close to 1,500 units out there we have had just 2 field failures (not counting an LED that died, two people who knocked their unit to the ground tearing the DC jack off the board, and two people who accidentally over-voltaged the input--frying a particular part).  And even those two failures--still under investigation--do not appear to be from usage-stress (the boards just draw too much current from the charger).

So the bottom line is:

The LPS-1 is designed to take and dissipate the heat.  It performs just as well hot as it does cool. I know the heat freaks some folks out.  But the temp is never hot enough to ignite tissue paper (that's a safety test).  If it is a bother or concern to some, there are two things you can do--one for free, the other at very modest cost:

1) Make a little stand to turn the LPS-1 on edge.  When standing it on edge, keep the curved "bottom" exposed to the air as convection over that curved surface will VERY effectively have heat flow up and away along the flat sides.

or 2) Set an aluminum or copper heatsink on top of the LPS-1.

 

Your LPS-1 units are covered by a 3-year warranty.  Rajiv happen to be one of the 2 above mentioned field failures (he also got a unit that worked perfectly except for the LED--still trying to figure out how that got past my bench since I test every unit and look at the LED to know what is going on).  And replacement was very swift as he already attested to.

 

So don't worry.  Be happy.  

 

--Alex C.

 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Guys:

 

Sorry to be slow in replying to your queries.  Just been busy getting more LPS-1s out the door and making sure that we maintain the pile of 80 that are to go out as part of ISO REGEN/UltraCap LPS-1 bundles next week (ISO REGEN boards finally arrive tomorrow so we can start fast programming, testing, and assembling again.).

 

So here is the full lowdown regarding heat and the LPS-1:

• Heat is created inside the unit by the ultracapacitors, a couple of inductors, a few lard resistors, and the regulators themselves.  And yes, the higher the current draw, the more heat that is dissipated.  The heat is conducted over all the planes of the PCB, into the air inside the mostly sealed case of the unit, by the PCB's contact at the edges where it slides into the rails of the case--and where the front and back plates press against the front and rear of the circuit board.  And since the case is all aluminum, it conducts that heat and acts as a heat-sink to the outside air.
• Every LPS-1 is capable of running continuously at its maximum output current rating of 1.1A.  Many of them test on my bench to 1.15A, and a few make it to 1.2A (the +/- of a whole bunch of parts tolerances are what cause the normal variation) If a board's over-current logic trips it off (flashing red) at lower than 1.1A or higher than 1.2A then we reflash the FPGA with code for a threshold that brings the unit back into the 1.1-1.2A range.
• The voltage of the "energizing"/charging supply (7.5V to 12V is the permitted range) does not appreciably effect the heat dissipated (some parts stay cooler, some parts stay hotter depending upon the charge voltage).
• While an LPS-1 will indeed get very hot when run continuously at full 1.1A output, that heat will almost never be the cause of an LPS-1 shutting off.  Only drawing more than its 1.1A rated current will cause it to "trip."
• Even when "blazing hot" on the outside, the temperature of the parts on the circuit board is only at about half what they are rated for. (We have put probes inside the case and on the board to determine this.)
• We do not believe that running the LPS-1 continuously at max. current shortens its life-span appreciably.  The ultracapacitor banks will charge/discharge/switch more frequently with higher current usage, but John once calculated the life-span of the caps we use at about 22 years--based on something like 0.8-0.9A continuous usage.
• With close to 1,500 units out there we have had just 2 field failures (not counting an LED that died, two people who knocked their unit to the ground tearing the DC jack off the board, and two people who accidentally over-voltaged the input--frying a particular part).  And even those two failures--still under investigation--do not appear to be from usage-stress (the boards just draw too much current from the charger).

So the bottom line is:

The LPS-1 is designed to take and dissipate the heat.  It performs just as well hot as it does cool. I know the heat freaks some folks out.  But the temp is never hot enough to ignite tissue paper (that's a safety test).  If it is a bother or concern to some, there are two things you can do--one for free, the other at very modest cost:

1) Make a little stand to turn the LPS-1 on edge.  When standing it on edge, keep the curved "bottom" exposed to the air as convection over that curved surface will VERY effectively have heat flow up and away along the flat sides.

or 2) Set an aluminum or copper heatsink on top of the LPS-1.

 

Your LPS-1 units are covered by a 3-year warranty.  Rajiv happen to be one of the 2 above mentioned field failures (he also got a unit that worked perfectly except for the LED--still trying to figure out how that got past my bench since I test every unit and look at the LED to know what is going on).  And replacement was very swift as he already attested to.

 

So don't worry.  Be happy.  

 

--Alex C.

 

 

Hi Alex,

 

Thanks so much for that very definitive and informational post! I feel so much better. I like the heatsink idea. Got any recommendations that'll fit?

 

The fact that I single handedly accounted for 2 out of your 3 field failures makes me feel so special. 

 

But in all seriousness, I want to reiterate that Alex has been absolutely great about correcting any issues, turning around and sending me replacements within a day of receipt of the faulty unit. I couldn't ask for better support.

[afrancois]

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Hi Alex,

 

Thanks so much for that very definitive and informational post! I feel so much better. I like the heatsink idea. Got any recommendations that'll fit?

 

The fact that I single handedly accounted for 2 out of your 3 field failures makes me feel so special. 

 

But in all seriousness, I want to reiterate that Alex has been absolutely great about correcting any issues, turning around and sending me replacements within a day of receipt of the faulty unit. I couldn't ask for better support.

 

http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/kits-modules-diy-radiateurs/heat-sink-aluminium-black-100x50x40mm-p-9260.html

 

I use two of these on each LPS-1.

[austinpop]

6 hours ago, afrancois said:

 

http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/kits-modules-diy-radiateurs/heat-sink-aluminium-black-100x50x40mm-p-9260.html

 

I use two of these on each LPS-1.

 

That looks real nice! I have been searching here on US sites, and have not found any black anodized options. This one looks to be a perfect size, but not particularly good looking:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073QS338W

 

Will continue searching. It seems like 100x70mm would cover most of the top.

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Will continue searching. It seems like 100x70mm would cover most of the top.

 

Here is one that is aaaaalmost there. Not in black though! ?

 

https://banggood.app.link/CEFEryvdFF

[auricgoldfinger]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

That looks real nice! I have been searching here on US sites, and have not found any black anodized options. This one looks to be a perfect size, but not particularly good looking:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073QS338W

 

Will continue searching. It seems like 100x70mm would cover most of the top.

 

Check out this one:

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/518-95AB/345-1055-ND/340668?WT.mc_id=IQ_7595_G_pla340668&wt.srch=1&wt.medium=cpc&&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4rLxjuTb1QIVBJBpCh3ELAcyEAQYASABEgL7tfD_BwE

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Here is one that is aaaaalmost there. Not in black though! ?

 

https://banggood.app.link/CEFEryvdFF

 

Thanks, Michal - that looks very similar to the Amazon one I posted.

 

7 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Check out this one:

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/518-95AB/345-1055-ND/340668?WT.mc_id=IQ_7595_G_pla340668&wt.srch=1&wt.medium=cpc&&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4rLxjuTb1QIVBJBpCh3ELAcyEAQYASABEgL7tfD_BwE

 

Thanks - I'm looking at Digikey for more sizes now.

[auricgoldfinger]

6 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks, Michal - that looks very similar to the Amazon one I posted.

 

 

Thanks - I'm looking at Digikey for more sizes now.

 

Let us know if you find something you like better at Digikey.

[Cornan]

13 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Thanks, Michal - that looks very similar to the Amazon one I posted.

 

Yeah, I missed your link. They are identical! ? I'll let you know if I find something else more suitable Rajiv.

[Cornan]

Here is one in the size 100x70x2mm in copper.

 

http://s.aliexpress.com/RrMnYRrm

 

 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Let us know if you find something you like better at Digikey.

 

Nope, still looking. This one is just a hair too big:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/wakefield-vette/641A/345-1052-ND/340348

[kennyb123]

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

That looks real nice! I have been searching here on US sites, and have not found any black anodized options. This one looks to be a perfect size, but not particularly good looking:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073QS338W

 

Will continue searching. It seems like 100x70mm would cover most of the top.

 

I have one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RE6KB3Y/

[austinpop]

4 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I have one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RE6KB3Y/

 

Do you use it on the LPS-1? Doesn't it only cover the top partially? Which is OK if it works well!

[austinpop]

Get Yer Blazing Hot Data!

 

Ok folks, my Nubee infrared thermometer arrived, so I took some readings for our mutual edification. 

 

One immediate issue off the bat was calibration. This thermo has a setting for emissivity, which allows for more accurate readings, but without a calibration, it's hard to say what the right emissivity was. So, for now, I took 3 sets of readings at emissivities of 0.95 (default), 0.8, and 0.7. I took readings of the 3 LPS-1s driving my sMS/switch, ISO-Regen, and tX-USBultra, and also for reference, my Codex DAC and my Cavalli amp, both of which are Class A boxes, and get mighty toasty too.

 

Without further ado (all temps in ºF):

 

Sms/switch......ISO-R.....tX.........Codex......Cavalli.......Emissivity Setting

 

114....................102.......124.......113.............................0.95

120....................106.......131.......117.............................0.80

124....................109........138.......121............121..........0.70

 

Make of it what you will!

[kennyb123]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Do you use it on the LPS-1? Doesn't it only cover the top partially? Which is OK if it works well!

 

I use it to draw heat off my preamp in the summer.  I purchased one just to see if it would pull some heat (it does) with the intention of buying more (which I haven't gotten around to yet).

 

Pic attached showing the fit on my LPS-1.  The LPS-1 is powering only my ISO REGEN right now, so it's only very slightly warm.

 

t

[rickca]

4 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

Pic attached showing the fit on my LPS-1

Is the heat sink just sitting on top of the LPS-1?  Wouldn't it be a lot more effective with some kind of thermal pad?

[kennyb123]

15 minutes ago, rickca said:

Is the heat sink just sitting on top of the LPS-1?  Wouldn't it be a lot more effective with some kind of thermal pad?

 

I just set it there to take the photo so Rajiv would have an idea of the fit.  

 

As far as a thermal pads - I wondered the same thing with respect to using these sinks.  

[rickca]

11 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

As far as a thermal pads - I wondered the same thing with respect to using these sinks.

I'm just not sure whether you need pressure between the LPS-1 and the heat sink for a thermal pad to be effective.  My experience with heat sinks is limited to CPU and video card coolers.

[tims]

15 minutes ago, rickca said:

I'm just not sure whether you need pressure between the LPS-1 and the heat sink for a thermal pad to be effective.  My experience with heat sinks is limited to CPU and video card coolers.

This film is very good - better conductivity than some paste/insulator.

Kerafol film

[Ciukas]

On 8/17/2017 at 8:13 AM, kennyb123 said:

 

I just set it there to take the photo so Rajiv would have an idea of the fit.  

 

As far as a thermal pads - I wondered the same thing with respect to using these sinks.  

 

On 8/17/2017 at 7:58 AM, rickca said:

Is the heat sink just sitting on top of the LPS-1?  Wouldn't it be a lot more effective with some kind of thermal pad?

 

No thermal pad needed. A thermal pad is usually needed to fill in gaps or to help balance an otherwise uneven heatsink to achieve flush contact with a component (usually a cpu/gpu chip). Thus does not apply to the LPS-1 scenario. In fact, I'd wager adding a thermal pad would decrease the effectiveness of the heatsink since the thermal pad adds yet another layer of insulation and is less conductive than the aluminium heatsink itself.

[rickca]

12 hours ago, Ciukas said:

No thermal pad needed.

Thanks, I figured it was a different situation than CPU/GPU coolers.

[ElviaCaprice]

Received back my NUC, SCLK EX, tX bexp pcie card from SOtM.   Everything was very well packed and labled, no instructions.   Three of the 4 clock leads were labled 1 thru 3 coming out of the NUC.  I proceeded to hook up everything to the sclk ex board.  Ran 12v power to the sclk ex.  Started up the NUC, just loud beeps, different patterns often ending in a long continous beep, unable to boot.   Checked all the leads, resat the memory styx, pulled the mobo, etc.  The NUC in my opinion is lost.  Emailed SOtM, waiting on engineer reply, time is running out.   

Fortunately the last, 4th clock to the txbexp pcie card works great.  So I quickly modified my pico-itx to accommodate the pcie slot, no optimizations, external usb hdd for library.  Smps on the 2qute and mobo.  Lps1 on the iso regen, sclk ex and txbexp.  Sounds really good,  the txbexp in conjunction with the sclk ex adds great sound stage, detail.  

Paul Hynes ps should be here in two weeks.