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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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8 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Have you seen the size of this thread? Do you seriously expect an index with that level of detail? 

 

I condensed the listening impressions to a very manageable list. All you have to do is click through them and in short order you will find that the answer to your question is in there.

 

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I apologize for my slightly testy response earlier.

 

I think experiment 4 in this post addresses your question:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-the-sms-200-and-microrendu/?do=findComment&comment=686596

 

If you already own an original SMS-200, I highly recommend the trifecta of tX-USBultra, modded sMS, and modded switch. Run the lot with 2 LPS-1s and you're all set.

 

13 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

  1. I had to leave out a lot of stuff. If you posted something profound, and I excluded it, please accept my apologies. As I said in the index: NOTE: If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me.

I will try to keep the index up to date from here on out.

 

 

I appreciate the apology.  I've thanked you for your efforts multiple times in this thread and in PMs.  Others have provided you with countless gratitude.  But you specifically said in bold "If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me." Well I didn't do it in a PM but consider that a nomination.  I looked for it, not just in the index, but couldn't find it.  I didn't look hard enough but it's a large thread and this was also a question because I didn't recall a definitive conclusion.  Not sure why the testy response.  I mean if I flamed you or something sure, but I just asked an honest question.  If this stresses you out, don't ask for it or don't mod the thread.  I think all of us at CA would be disappointed but I wouldn't let a self elected undertaking get to me.  I also noted some stress in an earlier thread of yours about the ultra Rendu and posted about it.  You didn't reply but I could tell you were stressed.  Remember this is a hobby.  It's fun.  We're all here to share ideas, collaborate and help learn.  It's not a job and you can walk away any time.

 

The link you just posted is what I was looking for.  #6 also gives good info.  For anyone with an existing sMS-200 it's a serious question to consider and one I'm sure you yourself have done; to upgrade or modify.  Worthy of an index link imho.  From the post you linked it appears that there was no difference.  This tells me I can add a tx, mod my 200 and a switch and not miss anything from the ultra 200.  What isn't clear to me is whether in this comparison there was a tx involved.  Can you please confirm?  You refer to it as a bifecta.  I don't recall so please don't attack me for asking, but did you not mod your 200 and switch with a tx or was it with an sclk?

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3 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

But you specifically said in bold "If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me." Well I didn't do it in a PM but consider that a nomination.  

 

I'm not sure I understand. What exactly are you nominating? The link I posted and referenced to you is in the index already, under the heading "@austinpop Ultra-vaganza Report."

 

By "nominate a post," I mean a post on this thread that is not already in the index.

 

BTW - for anyone nominating a post, please also give me a phrase or caption describing the essence of the post.

 

3 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

I also noted some stress in an earlier thread of yours about the ultra Rendu and posted about it.  You didn't reply but I could tell you were stressed.  

 

I was not stressed at all. Just an observation based on reading the mR and UR threads. 

 

I am actually delighted to see the improvements delivered in the Rendu family of products. I think at some point, it will be very interesting to compare these new products with the Ultra gear. If it turns out they have leapfrogged SOtM in SQ, then that would be good to know for people making buying decisions.

 

3 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Remember this is a hobby.  It's fun.  We're all here to share ideas, collaborate and help learn.  It's not a job and you can walk away any time.

 

You are preaching to the choir.

 

3 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

What isn't clear to me is whether in this comparison there was a tx involved.  Can you please confirm?  You refer to it as a bifecta.  I don't recall so please don't attack me for asking, but did you not mod your 200 and switch with a tx or was it with an sclk?

 

I am having a hard time understanding your question. I think you're asking how did I run a "bifecta" if the tX is providing the clock? The answer is:

  • yes, since the tX contains the clock board, it must be powered on (and obviously connected) via the clock cables
  • without the above, the modded sMS and switch will not function
  • however, you can always bypass the tX on the signal path. So you can go switch > sMS > DAC, bypassing the tX
  • The tX is still on and providing the clock, it's just not in the signal path.
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1 minute ago, austinpop said:

 

I'm not sure I understand. What exactly are you nominating? The link I posted and referenced to you is in the index already, under the heading "@austinpop Ultra-vaganza Report."

 

By "nominate a post," I mean a post on this thread that is not already in the index.

 

BTW - for anyone nominating a post, please also give me a phrase or caption describing the essence of the post.

 

Imagine you're someone who hasn't been following this thread for months.  You look at the index.  Would you know what the Ultravaganza is?  I've been following and I didn't connect Ultravaganza with my inquiry.  Most of your index is specific, this test was not specifically identified.  Maybe put a label like "modded sMS-200 vs Ultra sMS200 with modded switch"?  People also won't know what an "ultra trifecta" is unless they've already read how you defined it, and even then they'd have to remember what three components were involved.  Another point of clarification.

 

I think each one of your testing efforts warrants its own index entry specific to the test conducted.

 

But before you respond...

"Have you seen the size of this thread? Do you seriously expect an index with that level of detail? 

I condensed the listening impressions to a very manageable list. All you have to do is click through them and in short order you will find that the answer to your question is in there."

...it's just a suggestion.

 

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

 

I am having a hard time understanding your question. I think you're asking how did I run a "bifecta" if the tX is providing the clock? The answer is:

  • yes, since the tX contains the clock board, it must be powered on (and obviously connected) via the clock cables
  • without the above, the modded sMS and switch will not function
  • however, you can always bypass the tX on the signal path. So you can go switch > sMS > DAC, bypassing the tX
  • The tX is still on and providing the clock, it's just not in the signal path.

 

You got it. I didn't know you could bypass the tx on the path.

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Your going to criticize the person willing to take the time to do any indexing?   I didn't see anyone else trying to take on the endeavor?  I'm sure Rajiv would be more than happy to relinquish the position.

 

For myself, I could give a hoot to the indexing, since I've followed the thread from day one and have little need to refer back to previous posts.  This is a fast moving love and yesterdays love is just that.  Of course anyone can stop and snuggle with the one they love, until the bug bites again. 

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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22 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Your going to criticize the person willing to take the time to do any indexing?   I didn't see anyone else trying to take on the endeavor?  I'm sure Rajiv would be more than happy to relinquish the position.

 

I didn't criticize anyone, where did you read into that? Not in any of my statements did I criticize him or his efforts. In fact pointed out my gratitude. Since when does making a suggestion qualify as a criticism? Should I send a box of candy and flowers along with a suggestion to make it sweet? 

 

Edit: if one can't make suggestions for improvement or not offer challenges to stated fact where does that get anyone? Should everyone be a yes man offering an atta boy! Should one be surrounded by those who agree, only to never learn beyond their particular scope? If you call it criticizim, I call it constructive. Unless you're a little girl needing to be coddled, try to learn from different points of view. 

 

Good grief, lighten up. I asked one simple question and look what it's blown up into. 

 

Quote

 

For myself, I could give a hoot to the indexing, since I've followed the thread from day one and have little need to refer back to previous posts.  This is a fast moving love and yesterdays love is just that.  Of course anyone can stop and snuggle with the one they love, until the bug bites again. 

 

Brilliant you are. 

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On 7/21/2017 at 11:52 AM, zoltan said:

I'm not sure which forum is the best to ask my question but I found a lot of talk here about power supplies.
My question is basically, are there any specs for a good DC cable? Twisted pair or coaxial? Shielded or not? Copper or silver? Or anything else?

 

I have a Uptone JS-2 PSU with the supplied Belden 9418 which seems like a decent cable but I guess one could do better than a 2 dollar/m cable. Also, I need one that is longer than the one I have now. So I will go DIY. 

 

It seems that the Oyaide plugs are the way to go but any specific recommendation on the cable. Oyaide or something else? I haven't been able to find a DC cable 'shootout' on the internet. Any thoughts are welcome.  

 

I have tried (LPS-1 > mR)

1. the Cardas Litz 15.5 awg copper wire (as a twisted pair).  A smaller gage (21.5) can be used for star quad, but I did not try this.

available at:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_cardas.html

 

and

2. the mil-w-16878 22 awg (silver plated copper strands/teflon insulation) in star quad . These come in spools (100ft Belden or Alpha Wire being the shortest). They are commonly used in aircraft/aerospace and at times can be found cheaper on ebay in left over form (hookup or cable form).

e.g. http://ca.mouser.com/Wire-Cable/Hook-up-Wire/_/N-5ggs?P=1yzs67rZ1yxufheZ1z0juks&Keyword=alpha+wire&FS=True

 

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmil-w-16878.TRS0&_nkw=mil-w-16878&_sacat=0

 

connectors - I used the Switchcraft 762 (762K for the locking one)

http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Switchcraft/762/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtnOp%2bbbqA00xVNfTC1Zp0MB0v2MPeNOaA%3d

 

The mil-w-16878 in star quad edged the Cardas (twisted pair) in musical terms.

 

I have no commercial affiliation to any of these products.

(Also posted at Uptone sponsored DIY thread )

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20 hours ago, sadekkhalifa said:

I would like to know if SR7MR3DRXL can supply two devices with (5-12v) range and third device with 5v because I'm trying to reach Paul but it seems he is very busy to reply to emails since he came back from his vacation.

 

 

Does this unit even exists?  Well, he can custom build anything you want but with 3 simultaneous DR powered output, you will likely need a larger case to accommodate 3 rails with DR regulation. He's been working on a 4 rails with DR regulation but using the larger Steacom FC9 chassis.

 

Existing SR7DRMR2 chassis can only take 2 rails with DR regulation. If you need more than 2 simultaneously connections, the adjustment range maximum voltage will be reduced, the heat generated on the connection output rail will be excessive, and defeats the galvanic isolation between the rails while causing ground loops between the power supply and the equipment being powered.

 

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30 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

Is there a disadvantage when using a Y dc cable connecting two devices from 1 power supply or rail? Sotm sells these Y dc cables with their sps500 power supply.

 

Yes.  According to Paul Hynes...

 

"I would not recommend powering two items of equipment from one power supply as this will create a ground loop through the DC leads and the equipment interconnect. This will allow the ground return current from both items of equipment to mix and it will cause signal inter-modulation that is usually audible especially on a transparent system."

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1 hour ago, TopQuark said:

Does this unit even exists?

amir57bs has ordered one

 

my order confirmed by paul in Streacom FC9 chassis :

1 off SR7DRMR3XLFC9                            £2305
1 off DC10FSXL 60cm                            £0178
2 off DC6FSXL 60cm                              £0256
DHL express shipping to Tehran              £0330
Insurance for loss or damage in transit     £0110
Total goods and shipping costs                 £3179

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

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44 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

Yes.  According to Paul Hynes...

 

"I would not recommend powering two items of equipment from one power supply as this will create a ground loop through the DC leads and the equipment interconnect. This will allow the ground return current from both items of equipment to mix and it will cause signal inter-modulation that is usually audible especially on a transparent system."

Thank you for this info. Paul has a great reputation, no doubt about that, has any one confirmed this by comparing both setups? Its theory vs practice. But the wish is the father of thought I guess.

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On 7/27/2017 at 0:59 AM, TopQuark said:

 

Does this unit even exists?  Well, he can custom build anything you want but with 3 simultaneous DR powered output, you will likely need a larger case to accommodate 3 rails with DR regulation. He's been working on a 4 rails with DR regulation but using the larger Steacom FC9 chassis.

 

Existing SR7DRMR2 chassis can only take 2 rails with DR regulation. If you need more than 2 simultaneously connections, the adjustment range maximum voltage will be reduced, the heat generated on the connection output rail will be excessive, and defeats the galvanic isolation between the rails while causing ground loops between the power supply and the equipment being powered.

 

I have ordered one.

Paul told me it is possible 

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My order accepted by Paul after checking FC9 termal capacity by Him for 3 output:

 

SR7DRMR3XLFC9 (DR version, XL Version)
—» output 1:  12v  ,   10A module
—» output 2:  9v   ,    6A  module
—» output 3:  5v   ,    6A  module

FC9 Streacom (silver no optical slot)  (SKU: ST-FC9S-ALPHA  EAN: 8718469091010)

DC Cables:
60cm DC10FSXL (1PC) 5.5mm OD, 2.5mm ID DC adaptor jack (12v)
60cm DC6FSXL  (1PC) 5.5mm OD, 2.1mm ID DC adaptor jack (9v)
60cm DC6FSXL  (1PC) 5.5mm OD, 2.1mm ID DC adaptor jack (5v)

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5 hours ago, amir57bs said:

My order accepted by Paul after checking FC9 termal capacity by Him for 3 output:

 

SR7DRMR3XLFC9 (DR version, XL Version)
—» output 1:  12v  ,   10A module
—» output 2:  9v   ,    6A  module
—» output 3:  5v   ,    6A  module

FC9 Streacom (silver no optical slot)  (SKU: ST-FC9S-ALPHA  EAN: 8718469091010)

DC Cables:
60cm DC10FSXL (1PC) 5.5mm OD, 2.5mm ID DC adaptor jack (12v)
60cm DC6FSXL  (1PC) 5.5mm OD, 2.1mm ID DC adaptor jack (9v)
60cm DC6FSXL  (1PC) 5.5mm OD, 2.1mm ID DC adaptor jack (5v)

 

:D awesome

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Come on guys, we just need to get four of them together and then we'll save 9,118.1 a piece. What a smokin' deal?

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/lessloss-laminar-streamer

Quote

When the Laminar Streamer hits the streets, it is expected to come in at "under $15,000".

 

That reminded me this portable SD card player that's only €500 while it's launched several years ago. Then it's raised to €880 when I ordered it and that's such a enjoyable package for portable audio

 

http://www.tera-player.com

 

Eventually it went all the way to 10K

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20160821230546/http://tera-player.com:80/

 

Finally it's back to 3K

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20161203054326/http://tera-player.com:80/

 

Seriously, is that clock inside Laminar Streamer actually comparable to MSB Femto 33 / MUTEC REF 10 / NDK DuCULoN or what?

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8 hours ago, sadekkhalifa said:

Does anyone have any idea about the following Streamer 

 

http://www.lessloss.com/laminar-streamer-sd-player-p-207.html

 

it costs 91,181$ O.o

 

Sounds like they wrote a real-time operating system to handle playback concerns and clocked it off of the audio sample rate, which probably why it taps out at 192kHz PCM rather than stepping into the wild-and-crazy realm of DSD.  (Not that modern CPUs lack the frequencies required).

 

This is not as novel as they try to make it sound (e.g., check out ARTOS from 1994:  http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=6374 ).

 

Either way, it is probably off-topic. ;-)

 

P.S. Real-time Operating Systems are a pretty foreign concept to most . You can read a bit about them and how they differ from general-purpose systems like Windows, OSX, and Linux here: http://www.ni.com/white-paper/3938/en/

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On 2017-05-18 at 7:30 PM, limniscate said:

So @austinpopand I should be able to test his SOtM Ultra stack versus the new Bryston BDP-3 since my dealer has it and will let me borrow it for a weekend.

 

I'm interested to hear how the stack compares to a dedicated streamer.  I know @romaz has tested a lot of other dedicated streamers such as the Antipodes and the Aurender N10.

Maybe I managed to miss it, sorry for that if that is the case, but had you done this test?

Analog: Michell Enginering Orbe/SME309/Micro Benz Wood->Trigon Advanced riaa

Digital: mac mini/Roon/NUC ROCK->sMS-200 Ultra/sPS-500->Bryston BDA-3

Amps: Mark Levinson No 326S & Classé CA-2300

Speaker: B&W802D2 & Velodyne SPL1200 Ultra
Cables: VdH, Supra, Ghent Audio, AQ
Other: SMT Wings and Golden Horn, Sound of Science panels.

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:D Well... if you read our reports, we had a LOT of comparisons on our plate already. So yeah, the BDP-3 didn't happen.

 

Has anyone else gotten Ultra chains going, or reference clocks, or any other updates? The thread has gone quiet of late!

 

I guess we are now waiting for some monumental findings from @romaz and @Bamber once their mods and Ref 10's etc are all in place, burned in, and they've had a chance to form some impressions. Although I do know one or two other folks who've told me via PM that they've gotten trifecta's. I hope we hear from them soon.

 

For my part, I have to say it is a period of quiet bliss for me - music-wise. My chain has never sounded this good. With the last round of cable and power tweaks I described, along with further burn-in, I have never had such smooth, glare-free, and resolving SQ. It is just seductive. I have been recording and time-shifting the BBC Proms, and that's kept me busy from doing SQ evals.

 

Although ... before you conclude I've hung up my reviewing boots ... I did buy a Lush cable that @hols and others talked about. It's arrived and burning in, so I should be able to post some impressions within a few days.

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BTW - is anyone else going to be at RMAF? I am going, and I know Eric @limniscate is as well.

 

I will likely spend more time at CanJam (which runs concurrently as a part of RMAF), but would love to meet up other participants of this thread, if you're there.

 

SOtM has indicated they will be there and showing a prototype of something exciting, but I won't say more until they announce it themselves. You can probably guess what it is anyway. 9_9

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