A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Lebouwsky]

How can I determine a stray current and how can it be avoided? Quite off topic though.....

[tgb]

hi,

did someone test that direct link vs an optical network ? which one performs the best ?

I guess the optical network is better but that's just a guess...

thanks

Rgds

[romaz]

hi,

did someone test that direct link vs an optical network ? which one performs the best ?

I guess the optical network is better but that's just a guess...

thanks

Rgds

Ok, I swapped out my Paul Pang switch with TCXO clock from the "direct" connection and swapped in my TP-Link 100Mbit FMCs with the receiving FMC powered by my LPS-1. My Mac Mini is now directly connected to my internet modem/router and the Paul Pang switch is completely out of the picture.

 

Here is what my chain looks like: Modem/router > CAT6 cable > Mac Mini > 50 cm SOtM LAN cable > FMC (powered by generic 9V battery supply) > short optical cable > FMC (powered by LPS-1) > 30 cm SOtM LAN cable > sMS-200

 

The impact of having the FMCs in the "direct" connection is about the same as the SOtM iSO-CAT6 LAN isolator meaning there is an improvement with regards to a perceived slighter blacker background and maybe slightly better dynamic contrasts compared to just having the LAN cable in the direct connection but this difference is small. It is small enough that when I had my wife blind test me, I couldn't tell the difference. Out of 4 tries, I guessed right 1/4 times.

 

The difference with the having the Paul Pang switch in the direct path is noticeably better with crisper clearer details and a bigger soundstage. It is as if another thin veil has been removed. With blind testing, on 4/4 tries, it was easy to know when the switch was in the chain and so the switch stays.

 

This is an interesting and somewhat surprising finding for me. At least in my system, this leakage current/ground loop issue just isn't that big of a deal.

[lmitche]

Wow, interesting indeed. A wife that aids with blind testing. This is the first time I have heard this is possible! I am astonished.

[Theobetley]

ok I'm bridged but now hqplayer cannot see my dac. Any comments/suggestions on this?

 

ok I have now unbridged the 2 Ethernet connections, put the Rendu connection back into the router and am now back in music. But I don't understand why it did not work for me. I tried rebooting the microRendu, rebooting the pc, pulling the power from the Rendu and nothing worked when it was bridged.

 

I ask Romaz, Jelt, and Jesus why this did not work. I am still anxious to try it again but not without some knowledgeable direction from you guys.

[ted_b]

The difference with the having the Paul Pang switch in the direct path is noticeably better with crisper clearer details and a bigger soundstage. It is as if another thin veil has been removed. With blind testing, on 4/4 tries, it was easy to know when the switch was in the chain and so the switch stays.

 

This is an interesting and somewhat surprising finding for me. At least in my system, this leakage current/ground loop issue just isn't that big of a deal.

 

So do you think if PP would create a simple inline (or one output switch) with the TCXO clock that it would be a seller? And did you try FMCs with the PP switch (i.e after the switch)?

[lmitche]

Ok, I swapped out my Paul Pang switch with TCXO clock from the "direct" connection and swapped in my TP-Link 100Mbit FMCs with the receiving FMC powered by my LPS-1. My Mac Mini is now directly connected to my internet modem/router and the Paul Pang switch is completely out of the picture.

 

Here is what my chain looks like: Modem/router > CAT6 cable > Mac Mini > 50 cm SOtM LAN cable > FMC (powered by generic 9V battery supply) > short optical cable > FMC (powered by LPS-1) > 30 cm SOtM LAN cable > sMS-200

 

The impact of having the FMCs in the "direct" connection is about the same as the SOtM iSO-CAT6 LAN isolator meaning there is an improvement with regards to a perceived slighter blacker background and maybe slightly better dynamic contrasts compared to just having the LAN cable in the direct connection but this difference is small. It is small enough that when I had my wife blind test me, I couldn't tell the difference. Out of 4 tries, I guessed right 1/4 times.

 

The difference with the having the Paul Pang switch in the direct path is noticeably better with crisper clearer details and a bigger soundstage. It is as if another thin veil has been removed. With blind testing, on 4/4 tries, it was easy to know when the switch was in the chain and so the switch stays.

 

This is an interesting and somewhat surprising finding for me. At least in my system, this leakage current/ground loop issue just isn't that big of a deal.

Romaz, do you have a passive isolation transformer to test in place of the switch?

[ted_b]

Larry, isn't the SotM ISO-cat6 he tested a passive?

[lmitche]

Larry, isn't the SotM ISO-cat6 he tested a passive?

Perhaps, I don't know. Good point though.

[lmitche]

Ted, you are right, but looking at a review of the SOTM solution it looks much more complex then the simple hospital grade isolation transformers such as the EMOsystems solution often discussed here. I had the latter in mind.

[romaz]

So do you think if PP would create a simple inline (or one output switch) with the TCXO clock that it would be a seller? And did you try FMCs with the PP switch (i.e after the switch)?

I believe so, Ted. I think it would be an equally ripe opportunity for Sonore, SOtM, and especially Uptone Audio (Ethernet Regen) since such a device would be right in their wheelhouse. It would also be another great application for the LPS-1. Of interest, Paul Pang used to sell a NIC with a TCXO clock which he shelved for some reason late last year. If I were to build a server today, I would ask him to resurrect that NIC and maybe even have him consider using his better OCXO.

 

I have not yet tried the combination of PP switch and FMCs and I will give it a try but I have my doubts the FMCs will add anything based on what I heard last night.

[romaz]

Larry, isn't the SotM ISO-cat6 he tested a passive?

Yes, that's right. The SOtM iSO-CAT6 is a passive isolation transformer.

[romaz]

Ted, you are right, but looking at a review of the SOTM solution it looks much more complex then the simple hospital grade isolation transformers such as the EMOsystems solution often discussed here. I had the latter in mind.

There are other solutions like the EMO, Acoustic Revive RLI-1 and GISO but I have never tried those devices.

[Theobetley]

ok I have now unbridged the 2 Ethernet connections, put the Rendu connection back into the router and am now back in music. But I don't understand why it did not work for me. I tried rebooting the microRendu, rebooting the pc, pulling the power from the Rendu and nothing worked when it was bridged.

 

I ask Romaz, Jelt, and Jesus why this did not work. I am still anxious to try it again but not without some knowledgeable direction from you guys.

 

 

 

I have gone through this thread's posts and it looks like no one has successfully bridged 2 Ethernet nics on windows 10 and got the main pc to connect to a microRendu to play HQP.

Do I have that right, and if not tell me who I need to contact?

[romaz]

I have gone through this thread's posts and it looks like no one has successfully bridged 2 Ethernet nics on windows 10 and got the main pc to connect to a microRendu to play HQP.

Do I have that right, and if not tell me who I need to contact?

I will be trying this on a Windows 10 Pro device later this week. I'll let you know how I fare.

[tboooe]

I will be trying this on a Windows 10 Pro device later this week. I'll let you know how I fare.

Isnt the crux of the issue that the microrendu does not allow you to manually specify IP and subnet? If this was allowed, then at least we could have a direct setup with 2 separate NICs like how Jplay recommends it which I have successfully implemented in the past.

 

I think someone mentioned having to run a DHCP server on the windows machine to make this work in bridge mode?

 

Total aside, I have no idea why microrendu wont allow manual configuration of the network parameters. I asked this on the Sonore forum. Lets see what Jesus mentioned.

[romaz]

Isnt the crux of the issue that the microrendu does not allow you to manually specify IP and subnet? If this was allowed, then at least we could have a direct setup with 2 separate NICs like how Jplay recommends it which I have successfully implemented in the past.

 

I think someone mentioned having to run a DHCP server on the windows machine to make this work in bridge mode?

 

Total aside, I have no idea why microrendu wont allow manual configuration of the network parameters. I asked this on the Sonore forum. Lets see what Jesus mentioned.

I mentioned this to Jesus on this thread last week and this was his response:

 

"I disagree, this is a complex server side / network based solution that can work with the microRendu...These specific solutions are best sorted out by the interested parties."

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/novel-way-massively-improve-sq-sms-200-and-microrendu-31110/index7.html#post620664

[tboooe]

I mentioned this to Jesus on this thread last week and this was his response:

 

"I disagree, this is a complex server side / network based solution that can work with the microRendu...These specific solutions are best sorted out by the interested parties."

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/novel-way-massively-improve-sq-sms-200-and-microrendu-31110/index7.html#post620664

Complex??? Much cheaper and less sophisticated network devices allow manual editing of network parameters. I think its more of an issue that Sonore either dont want to do it or dont know how to do it.

[lmitche]

I have gone through this thread's posts and it looks like no one has successfully bridged 2 Ethernet nics on windows 10 and got the main pc to connect to a microRendu to play HQP.

Do I have that right, and if not tell me who I need to contact?

Yes, I think that's right. This configuration has never worked for me here. When I asked Miska about it, he said he doesn't support this idea. Maybe others will have better luck.

[clipper]

Yes, I think that's right. This configuration has never worked for me here. When I asked Miska about it, he said he doesn't support this idea. Maybe others will have better luck.

 

This works for me here.

 

Windows 10 machine. 2 Ethernet NICs bridged. HQPlayer and Roon Server running. One of the NICs is directly connected to a microRendu in NAA mode.

 

[lmitche]

This works for me here.

 

Windows 10 machine. 2 Ethernet NICs bridged. HQPlayer and Roon Server running. One of the NICs is directly connected to a microRendu in NAA mode.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32334[/ATTACH]

Good news, which version of Windows 10 are you running? How about your HQplayer version?

[clipper]

Good news, which version of Windows 10 are you running? How about your HQplayer version?

 

Windows 10 Pro. Version 1607, OS Build 14393.576.

 

HQPlayer version = 3.14.4.

 

I'll try to follow this up (a little later) with a description of the settings for each NIC.

[tboooe]

I am totally confused (nothing new!). So in Server R2 I can do something called NIC Teaming but not Bridging. Would a NIC Teaming allow me to do a direct connection like Bridging?

[lmitche]

Thanks!

[clipper]

I broke the bridge (temporarily) to show you my settings for each NIC (as an example).

 

Also, the rest of my network is on a 192.168.1.* numbering scheme.

 

See attachments.

 

Then just select both NICs, right click on one and choose Bridge Connections.

 

Note: the private IP address the network bridge is pulling (at the moment) is 192.168.1.231. The microRendu is pulling 192.168.1.218.