A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[micesol]

On 5/20/2017 at 2:40 AM, ElviaCaprice said:

 

If I wanted that kind of sound I'd do it with tubes in a SET amp/preamp.  Not a cable.  Best to use a USB adapter or shortest cable possible.

 

I concur. I use Audio Note SET 300B monoblocks to an Audio Note preamp driving Audio Note speakers using silver IC & speaker cable. It's emotionally engaging, to say the least!

[ducatirider]

I am having some success grounding my switch DAC and NAS. Is there a way to ground the SMS-200?

 

thanks

[tboooe]

3 minutes ago, ducatirider said:

I am having some success grounding my switch DAC and NAS. Is there a way to ground the SMS-200?

 

thanks

Pls explain further what you did.  Very interested.

 

[ducatirider]

I really enjoy my Aqvox 2CI Phono stage very much so I decided to get an Aqvox Switch 8.  I noticed a grounding screw on the switch.  Having read about grounding boxes, I decided to make my own.  I went online and researched what was inside them.  It appeared to be just a conductor with crystals inside. I went to a metaphysical store and bought a chunk of tourmaline.  Then for the conductor, I went to a local Indian store where they sold copper serving plates.  I then attached a conductor wire from the plate to the ground from my AC recepticle.  Then I used leads and attached them from a screw from the cases of my DAC, Switch, NAS and preamp.  What I noticed was an increase in low level detail.  Things like air, the acoustic space and foot pedals became more apparent.  Looking at the SMS-200 the screws seem to be Torx type but also the case appears to be metallic looking plastic so I'm not sure if any benefits would be had but wondering if anyone has grounded their SMS-200.

[ducatirider]

I also noticed that Aqvox sells RJ45 grounding plugs with crystals on them.  Is there any empirical data suggesting that crystals absorb RFI or anything like that?  My Switch 8 came with 2 of these.

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, ducatirider said:

I also noticed that Aqvox sells RJ45 grounding plugs with crystals on them.  Is there any empirical data suggesting that crystals absorb RFI or anything like that?  My Switch 8 came with 2 of these.

 

Rhinestones used in Aqvox caps are the same thing as clear quartz which have very interesting electrical properties. Except turning micro vibrations into heat, piezo- and pyroelectrical properties plus ionic nature they are also known to absorb RFI/EMI in a wide frequency range.

 

BTW. My Aqvox switch is grounded to a Entreq Minimus grounding box with great results.

 

If you want to ground the SMS-200 I suggest you connect it via one of the USB sockets (signal ground). Buy a screw terminal USB A plug and connect both GND+shield screw.

[austinpop]

On 5/12/2017 at 10:59 AM, austinpop said:

Thanks for reminding me to post an update on this.

 

The last experiment May asked me to try was to replace my Ayre Codex DAC with another. Serendipitously, this was the night before my planned listening session at @limniscate's. In over 5 hours of use, briefly with the DAVE, but mostly with the Yggy, I did not have a single pause.

 

So the finger is pointing at an interaction between the tX-USBultra and the Codex.

 

SOtM are in the process of acquiring a loaner Codex from their distributor in Korea to see if they can troubleshoot the problem in-house. I should know more in a few days how that is going. 

 

Yes, I am very satisfied with their level of commitment in resolving this issue.

 

I just wanted to post a quick update that I may have solved the frequent pause issue with my ultra stack.

 

It turns out the culprit was the router in my network. Shortly before I received my Ultra stack back from SOtM, I had a meltdown in my network, where my Arris Surfboard modem stopped working. I was using this in conjunction with an Archer C7 router with no issues in the past. After much troubleshooting, my ISP's tech left me with a leased broadband router from a brand called Technicolor.

 

This was a temporary fix, as I didn't really want a leased router, but in terms of functionality, it seemed perfectly fine, including having the explicit ability to enable UPnP and multicast, which I find are critical for streaming and home automation. What is even odder is that I recently tried this combination:

• switch (sCLK-EX mod) > Aries Mini > tX-USBultra > Codex

and it worked with no pauses at all. But this configuration still had pauses:

• switch (sCLK-EX mod) > sMS-200 (sCLK-EX mod) > tX-USBultra > Codex

Well, today I finally got my replacement broadband modem, a Netgear CM600, and I replaced the Technicolor with the Netgear + Archer C7 combo.

 

No more pauses! 

 

I have been running about 4 hours now without any pause, so I am cautiously optimistic. I will run it overnight to confirm, and update here.

 

Here is my new network topology:

 

 

One final and pleasant note. The Technicolor had a built-in SMPS, which was another annoyance. With the new Netgear, I was able to power it, my router and a switch with a HDPlex 100 in my network closet. In the past, I hadn't really noticed much difference with an LPS this far upstream. Well, now I could. The slight thinness I've been mentioning was substantially gone, and there was just more magic in the music. A very pleasant surprise!

[Cornan]

@austinpop Great to hear that you've solved your annoying issue Rajiv, and on top of that now can enjoy the benefits of further tweaks uphill. Congrats! ?

[greenleo]

11 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Rhinestones used in Aqvox caps are the same thing as clear quartz which have very interesting electrical properties. Except turning micro vibrations into heat, piezo- and pyroelectrical properties plus ionic nature they are also known to absorb RFI/EMI in a wide frequency range.

 

BTW. My Aqvox switch is grounded to a Entreq Minimus grounding box with great results.

 

If you want to ground the SMS-200 I suggest you connect it via one of the USB sockets (signal ground). Buy a screw terminal USB A plug and connect both GND+shield screw.

Can anybody provide the theory of the ground box for me?  A link will do as well.  I've been into this recently but cannot figure it out.  Basically, my problem is with the ground box connection, it is an open circuit.  How can the noises be drained away?

 

Don't get me wrong.  I trust this works and would like to understand the mechanism.

 

 

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, greenleo said:

Can anybody provide the theory of the ground box for me?  A link will do as well.  I've been into this recently but cannot figure it out.  Basically, my problem is with the ground box connection, it is an open circuit.  How can the noises be drained away?

 

Don't get me wrong.  I trust this works and would like to understand the mechanism.

 

 

 

Here is a start, http://www.entreqasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Entreq-History.pdf

, but is just theories I am afraid.

 

[lmitche]

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

I just wanted to post a quick update that I may have solved the frequent pause issue with my ultra stack.

 

It turns out the culprit was the router in my network. Shortly before I received my Ultra stack back from SOtM, I had a meltdown in my network, where my Arris Surfboard modem stopped working. I was using this in conjunction with an Archer C7 router with no issues in the past. After much troubleshooting, my ISP's tech left me with a leased broadband router from a brand called Technicolor.

 

This was a temporary fix, as I didn't really want a leased router, but in terms of functionality, it seemed perfectly fine, including having the explicit ability to enable UPnP and multicast, which I find are critical for streaming and home automation. What is even odder is that I recently tried this combination:

• switch (sCLK-EX mod) > Aries Mini > tX-USBultra > Codex

and it worked with no pauses at all. But this configuration still had pauses:

• switch (sCLK-EX mod) > sMS-200 (sCLK-EX mod) > tX-USBultra > Codex

Well, today I finally got my replacement broadband modem, a Netgear CM600, and I replaced the Technicolor with the Netgear + Archer C7 combo.

 

No more pauses! 

 

I have been running about 4 hours now without any pause, so I am cautiously optimistic. I will run it overnight to confirm, and update here.

 

Here is my new network topology:

 

 

One final and pleasant note. The Technicolor had a built-in SMPS, which was another annoyance. With the new Netgear, I was able to power it, my router and a switch with a HDPlex 100 in my network closet. In the past, I hadn't really noticed much difference with an LPS this far upstream. Well, now I could. The slight thinness I've been mentioning was substantially gone, and there was just more magic in the music. A very pleasant surprise!

Rajiv,

 

If you place a second Baaske back to back with your existing Baaske you are highly likely to gain another step up in SQ.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baaske-MI-1005-Medical-Ethernet-Isolator-Ferrite-Beaded-RJ45-Isolation-Cable-/142323550095?hash=item212325078f:g:~VUAAOSwCGVX5Vbo

[ducatirider]

19 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Rhinestones used in Aqvox caps are the same thing as clear quartz which have very interesting electrical properties. Except turning micro vibrations into heat, piezo- and pyroelectrical properties plus ionic nature they are also known to absorb RFI/EMI in a wide frequency range.

 

BTW. My Aqvox switch is grounded to a Entreq Minimus grounding box with great results.

 

If you want to ground the SMS-200 I suggest you connect it via one of the USB sockets (signal ground). Buy a screw terminal USB A plug and connect both GND+shield screw.

 

Something like this?  I don't know if my old eyes can solder this well.

 

[Cornan]

@ducatirider

Yes, those are the correct screw terminal USB A plugs. They have 5 screws. Connect two wires with one to #1 (shield) and the other to #5 (-). 

This is all a bit OT. I suggest you pm me for further questions or we can continue this discussion on my thread https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30634-the-true-experimental-tweak-thread/

[austinpop]

13 hours ago, austinpop said:

It turns out the culprit was the router in my network.

 

OK great news. My overnight test (playlist in a loop) ran continuously without a single pause, so it is now definitively proven it was my router. For the hall of shame, the exact model of the offending router is:

• Technicolor TC8715D

To be fair, I had no issue with streaming when I replaced the sMS-200 (sCLK-EX mod) with my Aries Mini, so this is a sMS specific issue. I've communicated this to SOtM.

 

Also, even though my previous hypothesis - that the issue was an interaction between the tX and my Codex DAC - proved incorrect, a shout out here to SOtM for outstanding service. May was unable to locate a Codex from the Ayre distributor in Korea, so she talked to the Ayre folks in Munich, and was able to get one of their Codex'es on loan to bring back to Korea to test.

 

10 hours ago, Cornan said:

@austinpop Great to hear that you've solved your annoying issue Rajiv, and on top of that now can enjoy the benefits of further tweaks uphill. Congrats! ?

 

Thanks, Micael! Yes, this glitch was definitely holding back my enjoyment. Since last night, I'm finding myself immersing even more into the music as never before. I guess knowing a pause was coming sooner or later tends to put you on edge!

 

7 hours ago, lmitche said:

Rajiv,

 

If you place a second Baaske back to back with your existing Baaske you are highly likely to gain another step up in SQ.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baaske-MI-1005-Medical-Ethernet-Isolator-Ferrite-Beaded-RJ45-Isolation-Cable-/142323550095?hash=item212325078f:g:~VUAAOSwCGVX5Vbo

 

Larry, interesting. TBH - I have not found the Baaske to make an audible impact. I have been waiting to borrow or snap up an EN-70HD, Etalon, or iso-Cat6 if it hit the used market, but haven't found one yet.

 

I was actually thinking of moving the Baaske downstream one hop, to sit on the "direct" link from my bridged PC and my modded switch. I'll try it and report back.

[mozes]

I am glad for you @austinpop that this is finally resolved. Now just sit back and relax

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Thanks, Micael! Yes, this glitch was definitely holding back my enjoyment. Since last night, I'm finding myself immersing even more into the music as never before. I guess knowing a pause was coming sooner or later tends to put you on edge!

 

I did'nt tell you, but I had very similar issues several years ago with JplayStreamer, Fidelizer Pro & BubbleDS Next. My play-stop issue turned up after installing Bitsum Process Lasso Pro. It was resolved later on but I couldn't even remember why it suddenly vanished. Very annoying issue which I was able to resolve by constant setting changes, resets, hardware replaces etc. It was one of several other things that made me walk away from pc and choose the Aries Mini streamer path. I was fed up having too many plausible variables that could cause playback issues. Another thing was that I could never reach the perfect SQ without playback issues. When it sounded glorious it was always playback issues as well with pc.

[ElviaCaprice]

"Hi Alex, well having finally managed to get Windows to boot from USB, I have now moved to an USB 3 ethernet adapter and hard disk enclosure via the Adnaco USB 3 connection.  The ISO REGEN is now behind the PC stuck into a motherboard USB2 port with the USPCB.

 

This means two different galvanically isolated USB chains, one PC to ISO REGEN (switch in down position) to DAC, the second chain a harddisk and wired NIC port via fiber to the PC.

 

From the first note of playback I could hear room ambience never heard before. Playback is completely glare free.  It's hard to believe there was even more SQ to be gained, but it's here.  WOW!

 

So, you were right! I am now using the ISO REGEN as intended and it is wonderful!  Thanks again!

 

Larry"

 

Didn't want to pollute Alex's Uptone Iso thread.  This is definitely an interesting perspective.  Roy talked about using the Adnaco for data drive, but you took this too another level with OS.  

So you are not using a PCIe slot for the fiber optic connection from the Adnaco?  Your using a USB 3 Ethernet adapter instead?  Hummmm, wonder what could still be gained on the mobo/pcie usb card with better clocking?  Still not so sure the adnaco in this capacity is that significant of an advantage over a properly powered HDD thru SATA connector.

How does it sound without the Adnaco and just the ISO Regen?

[rickca]

1 hour ago, ElviaCaprice said:

So you are not using a PCIe slot for the fiber optic connection from the Adnaco?

Larry is still using a PCIe slot for the Adnaco host adapter.  He took the SATA hard drive and PCIe ethernet NIC out of the PC.  The Adnaco receiver (at the end of the fiber optic cable) has two USB ports.  One is being used for a USB ethernet NIC, and one is being used for a USB hard drive enclosure.  The USB hard drive has one partition for the OS and one partition for music files.

 

So now the Adnaco is providing galvanic isolation (via fiber optic cable) for ethernet and hard drive.  Pretty creative!

 

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

Larry is still using a PCIe slot for the Adnaco host adapter.  He took the SATA hard drive and PCIe ethernet NIC out of the PC.  The Adnaco receiver (at the end of the fiber optic cable) has two USB ports.  One is being used for a USB ethernet NIC, and one is being used for a USB hard drive enclosure.  The USB hard drive has one partition for the OS and one partition for music files.

 

So now the Adnaco is providing galvanic isolation (via fiber optic cable) for ethernet and hard drive.  Pretty creative!

 

Rickca, that's right, the Adnaco is delivering the hard disk and network connection.  The motherboard is providing the USB connection to the ISO Regen. Both the Adnaco and ISO Regen create moats so there are three isolated zones.  Roy mentioned this idea in a post last weekend, and I realized that I had the kit to do the same.  Thanks Roy!

 

The ISO Regen is connected via the included USPCB "cable" to the motherboard.  My dac is connected via a split lhlabs lightspeed 2g cable with the data end plugged into the ISO Regen. The power end is connected via y cable to the same LPS 1 that powers the ISO Regen.

 

The trick was to get the existing harddisk image to boot over USB. Thankfully the win2usb utility can do the conversion to a windows to go drive in place.

[seeteeyou]

For those of us who have serious cash to burn, maybe we could even go for Adnaco-S1B plus 3 more SOtM tX-USBexp Ultra?

 

https://www.adnaco.biz/collections/adnaco-s1b/products/adnaco-s1b-01-000-s

 

One clock from sCLK-EX will feed Adnaco-R1BP1B and the rest will feed each tX-USBexp respectively

 

http://www.adnaco.com/doc/Adnaco-R1BP1B-DS.pdf

 

So much jitter will be introduced by the optical conversion, most likely it's kinda pointless to swap that clock included in Adnaco-H1A-01 host adapter since that's placed before the optical conversion?

 

BTW, is Lexar CFR1 the "only" decent USB-to-CF card reader that's still widely available?

 

http://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/reviews/card-readers/lexar-professional-workflow-cfr1/

http://www.lexar.com/products/card-readers/Lexar-Professional-Workflow-line-of-products.html#SKU=LRWCFR1TBNA

[tboooe]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

Rickca, that's right, the Adnaco is delivering the hard disk and network connection.  The motherboard is providing the USB connection to the ISO Regen. Both the Adnaco and ISO Regen create moats so there are three isolated zones.  Roy mentioned this idea in a post last weekend, and I realized that I had the kit to do the same.  Thanks Roy!

 

The ISO Regen is connected via the included USPCB "cable" to the motherboard.  My dac is connected via a split lhlabs lightspeed 2g cable with the data end plugged into the ISO Regen. The power end is connected via y cable to the same LPS 1 that powers the ISO Regen.

 

The trick was to get the existing harddisk image to boot over USB. Thankfully the win2usb utility can do the conversion to a windows to go drive in place.

A couple of questions...

 

1.  Shouldn't the USPCB be closest to the DAC?  By using the Lightspeed after the IsoRegen aren't to defeating the purpose of the USPCB?

 

2.  Did you consider adding another Adnaco to act like an NAA then add the IsoRegen after directly before then DAC?

[beautiful music]

Digital Audio Review talked about PS-1 Modular Linear Power Supply from Wyred4 sound

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/05/everything-counts-in-small-amounts-wyred-4-sounds-ps-1/

 

Does anyone tried this power supply?

 

Also, does anyone got a chance to compare IsoRegen to tX-USBUltra?

[ElviaCaprice]

11 minutes ago, sadekkhalifa said:

Digital Audio Review talked about PS-1 Modular Linear Power Supply from Wyred4 sound

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/05/everything-counts-in-small-amounts-wyred-4-sounds-ps-1/

 

Does anyone tried this power supply?

 

Also, does anyone got a chance to compare IsoRegen to tX-USBUltra?

There's only 3 power supplies that I consider the upper echelon of the field and willing to buy.  That is the Paul Hynes, LPS-1 and VR Mini.  If anyone can make a comparison to one of those three, I'll listen, otherwise it don't mean squat.    I don't know what Darko is talking about in that article, other than subpar power supplies, but these 3 power supplies I mentioned can fulfill all your needs and they hardly ever go on the market second hand.  If they do it's nearly for full value.

 

Yes, we are waiting on that ISO Regen, tX-USB Ultra matchup. 

[lmitche]

11 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

"Hi Alex, well having finally managed to get Windows to boot from USB, I have now moved to an USB 3 ethernet adapter and hard disk enclosure via the Adnaco USB 3 connection.  The ISO REGEN is now behind the PC stuck into a motherboard USB2 port with the USPCB.

 

This means two different galvanically isolated USB chains, one PC to ISO REGEN (switch in down position) to DAC, the second chain a harddisk and wired NIC port via fiber to the PC.

 

From the first note of playback I could hear room ambience never heard before. Playback is completely glare free.  It's hard to believe there was even more SQ to be gained, but it's here.  WOW!

 

So, you were right! I am now using the ISO REGEN as intended and it is wonderful!  Thanks again!

 

Larry"

 

Didn't want to pollute Alex's Uptone Iso thread.  This is definitely an interesting perspective.  Roy talked about using the Adnaco for data drive, but you took this too another level with OS.  

So you are not using a PCIe slot for the fiber optic connection from the Adnaco?  Your using a USB 3 Ethernet adapter instead?  Hummmm, wonder what could still be gained on the mobo/pcie usb card with better clocking?  Still not so sure the adnaco in this capacity is that significant of an advantage over a properly powered HDD thru SATA connector.

How does it sound without the Adnaco and just the ISO Regen?

Elvia, yes I tried this and the Adnaco improves the sound in a huge way.

[lmitche]

4 hours ago, tboooe said:

A couple of questions...

 

1.  Shouldn't the USPCB be closest to the DAC?  By using the Lightspeed after the IsoRegen aren't to defeating the purpose of the USPCB?

 

2.  Did you consider adding another Adnaco to act like an NAA then add the IsoRegen after directly before then DAC?

Answers:

 

1) Yes, I started with the USPCB between the ISO Regen and DAC.  This way sounds best by far.  I'll try a second USPCB when available.

 

2) Yes, having the ISO Regen in serial with the Adnaco is where I started.  My suspicion is that there is not a lot to be gained with a second Adnaco, but we won't know until we try.