A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[rickca]

2 minutes ago, mozes said:

Exactly and it looks like this

Thanks @mozes and @limniscate.  I did see that picture of the connectors in a previous post from @Johnseye.  I remain confused about the SOtM nomenclature ... are all 4 clock taps 12 MHz on a sCLK-EX12?  Certainly the connectors are more convenient than hardwiring, but I'm still wondering whether the interconnection degrades the clock signal.

[austinpop]

20 minutes ago, limniscate said:

The clock has four taps. @austinpop sent them his sMS-200 and a switch to hardwire to the tX-USB Ultra, but apparently, they have a cleaner method now, as shown earlier in this thread, where they put connectors on the outside of the chassis so one can disconnect the cables.

 

Yup, exactly.

 

6 minutes ago, mozes said:

Exactly and it looks like this

 

This looks like the sMS-200 with a newer, cleaner, modular approach to clock "inputs." I believe May is referring to it as SMB, but I am not familiar with the terminology for clocks. Obviously my mind goes to Windows file sharing.

 

My unit looks like this, and is truly hardwired:

 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

I'm confused by the SOtM nomenclature.  It says the tX-USBultra comes with a sCLK-EX12 board.  That board is listed under the heading of 'single clock frequency for interface system' on the sCLK-EX webpage.  So does the sCLK-EX12 board have 4 clocks or just one?

 

Join the club. 

 

May tried to explain it here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/27617-sotm-sms-200-unveiled-at-munich-hi-end/?do=findComment&comment=652912

 

 

But then they use confusing ambiguous terms like sCLK-EX12 board. Go figure.

[amir57bs]

On 5/12/2017 at 0:46 PM, romaz said:

It turns out the Antipodes DX uses a certain Jetway SoC mini ITX motherboard that incorporates a 4-core Celeron with a TDP of only 7.5w.  Mark also went with an SOtM tX-USBhubIn as his USB output card.  It is unclear if he is using SOtM's newest superclock.  The point is that with this Celeron-based SoC motherboard, this machine runs Roon 1.3 just fine (with the exception of upsampling to DSD) and it sounds wonderful.

are you sure about using celeron in DX?

in it's website i found they use Atom processor if i am not mistaken!

[rickca]

15 minutes ago, austinpop said:

But then they use confusing ambiguous terms like sCLK-EX12 board. Go figure.

OK good, so I'm not the only one who finds this puzzling!  I did see that earlier post from May, and the sCLK-EX ordering information nomenclature is explained in the sCLK-EX instruction manual.  They refer to the sCLK-EX12 board as the 'internal reference clock' of the tX-USBultra.

 

And in a Seinfeld moment, what's with this SOtM predilection for unpredictably mixing upper and lower case characters?

 

How in the world did @romaz initially figure out how this was meant to work?

[austinpop]

SMB connectors: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMB_connector

 

Not sure if you have them do the clock mods with SMB connectors, do SOtM provide the cables, or do you need to buy separately. Those of you actively working on your projects with May should ask her.

[austinpop]

Just now, rickca said:

OK good, so I'm not the only one who finds this puzzling!  I did see that earlier post from May, and the sCLK-EX ordering information nomenclature is explained in the sCLK-EX instruction manual.  They refer to the sCLK-EX12 board as the 'internal reference clock' of the tX-USBultra.

 

Yeah it kinda makes sense if the clock that the tX uses is 12MHz. Their logic is probably that the other 3 taps on the board are unused in the default config.

 

Just now, rickca said:

 

And in a Seinfeld moment, what's with this SOtM predilection for unpredictably mixing upper and lower case characters?

 

It's a pain while typing, but I do like the quirkiness of it!

[amir57bs]

On 5/12/2017 at 0:46 PM, romaz said:

I was convinced, however, that I wanted an SoC motherboard and a motherboard that I could directly power with my SR7 without having to use an ATX converter and so this has led to quite a search.  Most low power motherboards that met this criteria unfortunately use Celerons like the J1900, a 4-core CPU with a TDP of 10w and a measly 2MB of L3 cache.  What's worse, this cache isn't Intel's SmartCache meaning each core only has access to 1MB of cache max and that 1MB is then shared with another core.

how can you power an ATX socket with SR7? it seems you should buy 3 or 4 SR7! is it right?

[ElviaCaprice]

7 minutes ago, amir57bs said:

how can you power an ATX socket with SR7? it seems you should buy 3 or 4 SR7! is it right?

This is a direct DC capable mobo.  Is this better?  Probably not, since the board will be performing the Pico ATX tasks and who knows how noisy this is?

[amir57bs]

1 minute ago, ElviaCaprice said:

He just said it wasn't an ATX board.  A DC board.  Is this better?  Probably not, since the board will be performing the Pico ATX tasks.

 

i guess @romaz think about powering ATX with 4 SR7 and not using motherboard internal DC-DC converter.

[Johnseye]

29 minutes ago, austinpop said:

SMB connectors: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMB_connector

 

Not sure if you have them do the clock mods with SMB connectors, do SOtM provide the cables, or do you need to buy separately. Those of you actively working on your projects with May should ask her.

 

Right, these are coax connectors.  May informed me that they provide the cables.  My understanding is that the clock mods are with the SMB connectors, but that is an option for extra cost.  You can continue to have them hardwired just as Rajiv has shown in his picture; the black wire coming out of the devices which May refers to as RF.  Why she calls them RF I don't know.  Now you can see why I was confused at first, but it all makes perfect sense now!  What's a shame is that the clocks from the sCLK-EX can't directly replace the clocks on the other device boards.  Then no need for cables and a much cleaner connection.  Could there be any risk of noise over the cable vs a direct solder?  Dunno.

 

Here's what she said exactly: "The connections should be made by wire, and SMB connection or RF cables is one of the ways to transfer signals to be stable, those connections would provide the clock signals to the device"

[austinpop]

I highly recommend the SMB approach. Those hard wired RF wires - btw, the correct term is U.FL cables - make me nervous every time I move the boxes, or make connections.

 

i might even think about sending them

back to be SMB terminated at some point, but the shipping is expensive from the US.

[AmusedToD]

On 5/12/2017 at 8:41 PM, Quadman said:

 Then I got my hands on a used SLC nand flash SSD mentioned by Roy, that change was simply stunning I could not believe the very positive change that made to the sound. 

 

Is there a reasonably priced SLC SSD? Which one did you try? Would there be any benefit in using an external SLC SSD as opposed to regular external (MLC) SSD drive for music storage?

 

Right now I am using a very noisy and slow external 7200 HDD. Sometimes I connect it either to my PC (so that Roon can read the files) or directly to my SMS200, but I would love to try the SLC SSD variant.

[limniscate]

@romaz

Do you need two or three dCBL-CAT7 cables? It seems like you would need three: one from server NIC to iSO-CAT6, one from iSO-CAT6 to switch, and one from switch to sMS-200 Ultra. 

 

 

[Johnseye]

7 hours ago, limniscate said:

@romaz

Do you need two or three dCBL-CAT7 cables? It seems like you would need three: one from server NIC to iSO-CAT6, one from iSO-CAT6 to switch, and one from switch to sMS-200 Ultra. 

 

 

 

\Want it between switch and NAS?  Switch and router?  Switch and server?  WAN and router?  Use the dCBL-CAT7 cables everywhere.  Use the iSO-CAT6 between each device.  Fill your space up with sweet music like the aroma from full blooming flower.

[magnuska]

I have a microRendu today with Uptone LPS-1. But after reading much on this thread about SotM products and their clocks I took the plunge and ordered both sms-200 ultra and tx-usb ultra.

 

My plan is to power the sms-200 set to 12 volt from a HD plex 200w and the tx-usb ultra with the uptone LPS-1. Could I even power boths of them with the LPS-1 if they are set to 6-9v default?

 

I would also need a new short USB cable between the SotM products.

What do you guys recommend there?

 

Regards Magnus

 

 

[michaeltay5871]

I am not sure whether anybody knows about this but it seems that the new Sms-200 ultra is different from the upgraded Sms-200 with ultra clock.  I enquired from May and she replied "The main parts remain the same, but some features would be upgraded, according to the upgraded feature, some component would be added." So the stock or new Sms-200 ultra should sound better than the one with upgraded clock only?

 

I suspect that they have only 2 ultra clocks on the new board because there are other upgraded features and components on the stock Sms-200 ultra.

 

[seeteeyou]

Nice shots of the DC-ATX and a little something next to the linear PSU, they put some boards with a few caps next to the linear PSU and do you guys know what we could learn from them?

 

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2017/04/30/review-clones-audio-host-music-server/

 

 

 

 

 

Processor turned out to be Pentium J3710

 

http://ark.intel.com/products/91532/Intel-Pentium-Processor-J3710-2M-Cache-up-to-2_64-GHz

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/J3710-ITX/index.us.asp

[ElviaCaprice]

Yes, I know what we could learn.  Go smaller and use better power supplies. 

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on my long time talked about Jetway Pico-ITX.  Plan on going for this one,

 http://jetwaycomputer.com/JBC400P93.html

 

The 2807 dual core, 4.3W, 12V DC, can be powered with 2-LPS-1's in a series.  Waiting on one minor detail before ordering.  If all works well, I'll send it off to SOTM for clocking upgrade.

 

 

[mozes]

5 hours ago, michaeltay5871 said:

I am not sure whether anybody knows about this but it seems that the new Sms-200 ultra is different from the upgraded Sms-200 with ultra clock.  I enquired from May and she replied "The main parts remain the same, but some features would be upgraded, according to the upgraded feature, some component would be added." So the stock or new Sms-200 ultra should sound better than the one with upgraded clock only?

 

I suspect that they have only 2 ultra clocks on the new board because there are other upgraded features and components on the stock Sms-200 ultra.

 

Yes It should be different, but how in which aspects? Still there is no clarity on this from SOTM

[limniscate]

I ask May if the SMB connectors negatively affect sound quality.  She said she'll have to test after Munich.

[seeteeyou]

FYI - here's something that's potentially comparable to Intel X25-E with even lower power consumption

 

http://techreport.com/review/15931/intel-x25-e-extreme-solid-state-drive/11

 

 

MCC0E50G5MPQ for 50GB and MCC0E64G5MPP for 64GB respectively, or simply do a search on Dell G914J instead

 

For a much smaller footprint, there's yet another option and simply do a search for STEC / HGST / Hitachi M16SD2S-50UI or M16SD2S-50UC on eBay. Not a bad deal for just under 40 bucks and it's brand spanking new to boot.

 

Obviously there're all SLC but so far none of us tested them out yet.

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, limniscate said:

I ask May if the SMB connectors negatively affect sound quality.  She said she'll have to test after Munich.

 

That she didn't immediately say no, and that they haven't tested this yet is concerning. Convenience at the cost of quality is not worth it in my book when we tweak for the smallest improvements. I'm going to wait then until we know for sure. Thanks for asking. 

[Johnseye]

19 hours ago, limniscate said:

@romaz

Do you need two or three dCBL-CAT7 cables? It seems like you would need three: one from server NIC to iSO-CAT6, one from iSO-CAT6 to switch, and one from switch to sMS-200 Ultra. 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

\Want it between switch and NAS?  Switch and router?  Switch and server?  WAN and router?  Use the dCBL-CAT7 cables everywhere.  Use the iSO-CAT6 between each device.  Fill your space up with sweet music like the aroma from full blooming flower.

 

Also between server and endpoint with a bridge. Anywhere from the source on. Gets expensive at those prices for what it's worth. 

[Elberoth]

On 12.05.2017 at 7:47 PM, romaz said:

 

Who said you need a rubidium master clock?  SOtM isn't saying this.  They provide an external 10MHz master clock option for the sake of flexibility for those who desire it.  I certainly am not looking to do this.

 

What extra flexibility do you have in mind when talking about the 10MHz clock option ? 

 

To me, the external clock means more cables, an extra box, and substantially higher cost. 

 

I also have problems seeing any benefits an external clock could provide vs an internal clock, unless the later is of poor quality (It is important to not that the real world phase noise numbers will be degraded by extra cabling, connectors and additional PPL used to get 12MHz clock needed by the SmS-200. So even if you use the best in the world 10MHz clock with ultra low phase noise, the real world #s will be much, much worse. It is even possible that $25 Crystek clock Alex is using in the ISO Regen will have less phase noise than the 10MHz clock + cabling + PLL combination).