Jump to content
IGNORED

A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


Message added by The Computer Audiophile

Important and useful information about this thread

Posting guidelines

History and index of useful posts

Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

Recommended Posts

56 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Patience! :D

It will be worth the wait.  It is clear from previous posts that romaz, you and others in this thread are giving us honest reports of what you are hearing.  

 

57 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Sorry - not an option. May has mentioned to me that they don't mod other audio manufacturers' equipment.

Disappointing but I can understand their reasoning for this policy.

SOtM sMS-200ultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

SOtM tX-USBultra (12v, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Singxer SU-1 (7v SOtM sCLK-EX, silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

W4S DAC2v2 SE (SOtM sCLK-EX silver internal DC cable, 75Ω external clock input),

Mutec REF 10, Bryston BP6, Trinnov Altitude 32, 9 x Bryston 7B³s, B&W 800D3s, B&W HTM1 D3, 2 x Arendal Sub 3,

SOtM dCBL-CAT7 (ISO-CAT6 SE), SOtM eABS-200 installed on all components, JCAT NET Card FEMTO, mRendu, dCS Rossini DAC, Chord Hugo 2, Schitt Yggy, Chord Qutest (ordered for home office), UpTone ISO Regen, 5 x UpTone LPS-1s, 4 x PH SR4s, 5 x UpTone LPS-1.2s

Link to comment
3 hours ago, ted_b said:

Yes i dont see a way for the card to be externally powered either.  No biggie.

 

So does the host computer just see this as a USB connection and therefore you just choose an ASIO dac driver locally?

Ted, I think this one was for me.  Yes, in the windows device manager the Adnaco USB3 device hangs off a stack of two pcie bridges which I assume are one on each side of the fiber. So yes, HQplayer just sees a local Asio DAC hanging from the Adnaco USB3 port.

 

Cool huh!  

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

Link to comment

$500 is pretty steep for the Adnaco in my opinion.  Has anyone compared it to either a PC acting as NAA or the SM-200 or microrendu?  I would be certainly willing to spend $500 if its at least as good as any of the devices I listed.

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, lmitche said:

FWIW I paid $385 direct from Adnaco with 1m of multimode fiber.  Have they increased prices?

Sorry, I just checked Amazon which shows its $450 plus shipping.  The Adnaco site is $400 plus $50 shipping!

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

Link to comment
13 hours ago, hols said:

I must make some correction here as to the use of Ultracap lps-1 to power the SOtM tx-USBUltra. Initially I thought it was the iPower charging not fast enough that caused the USBUltra to stop functioning but after 2 more days of running the USBUltra using Teradak to charge the Ultracap it turns out that the USBUltra also stops working several times. No pattern could be traced. It happens in Linux system or Windows10 system. It occurs both in light loads like chamber music or in heavy loads like orchestral pieces. So it is more likely that the USBUltra actually requires a current higher than 1.2A momentarily now and then so much so that the Ultracap lps-1 stops providing current and caused the USBUltra to stop. So I have to reset the system by pulling off the USB cable and reconnect. But frankly speaking the sound is so great that even though this might be a bit disturbing at times it is still worth it. Alternatively one would have to think about using a Vinnie rossi (can also deal with leaking current) or Paul Hynes power supply(well optimised and galvanically isolated) for it.

 

Hmm, I've hit a snag similar to @hols

 

Here is an excerpt of the note I've sent to May. Since it's night time in Korea, I'm hoping to hear back tonight.

 

The glitch I am seeing is that the music stream pauses. Within 2 secs, I can resume it, by hitting play. This happens in both Roon Ready and DLNA modes. Based on this, I formed some possible theories:
  1. The problem does not cause either the sMS or the tX to reboot, as they take longer than 2 secs to come back up
  2. Perhaps the switch is malfunctioning. Experiment 1: take switch out of the loop.
  3. Perhaps the tX has an instantaneous current surge that the PS cannot handle, but not enough to reset the unit. Experiment 2: vary the PSUs for the tX.
Results:
  1. Experiment 1: no difference. Even without the switch in the path, within a few minutes of start, the pause still happens
  2. Experiment 2: So far, I have tried the following PSUs on the tX-USBultra:
    • Uptone LPS-1: 7V/1.1A
    • Breeze Audio Chinese LPS: 7.5V/30W (based on R30 core). Nominally it is 9V, but I had reduced it to 7.5V for a previous use.
    • Stock 9V/2A SMPS included with the tX unit
    • HDPlex 100, which can put out 9V/5A at least.
The problem still persists with all of these. This is a real mystery.
 
The only other things I can think of are:
  • Software bug in 3.7 firmware - which is unrelated to my hardware, so others should be reporting this, or
  • Some fault in my equipment.

I really hope it is not a side effect of the external clock mods. I really do not want to ship all this back, but may have to. :$

Link to comment

Would my Mellanox fiber card function the same way as the Adnaco PCIe fiber card?  Both output fiber...I don't understand all of this so excuse if stupid question.

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

Link to comment
15 hours ago, hols said:

I must make some correction here as to the use of Ultracap lps-1 to power the SOtM tx-USBUltra. Initially I thought it was the iPower charging not fast enough that caused the USBUltra to stop functioning but after 2 more days of running the USBUltra using Teradak to charge the Ultracap it turns out that the USBUltra also stops working several times. No pattern could be traced. It happens in Linux system or Windows10 system. It occurs both in light loads like chamber music or in heavy loads like orchestral pieces. So it is more likely that the USBUltra actually requires a current higher than 1.2A momentarily now and then so much so that the Ultracap lps-1 stops providing current and caused the USBUltra to stop. So I have to reset the system by pulling off the USB cable and reconnect. But frankly speaking the sound is so great that even though this might be a bit disturbing at times it is still worth it. Alternatively one would have to think about using a Vinnie rossi (can also deal with leaking current) or Paul Hynes power supply(well optimised and galvanically isolated) for it.

FWIW, I'm using an Uptone JS-2 to power my SOtM tx-USBUltra (which is reclocking the USB from an sMS-200 powered by an LPS-1) and there haven't been any hiccups (dac is Chord DAVE). And, yes, the tx-USBUltra made a noticeable improvement in SQ versus using the sMS-200 directly into DAVE. looking forward to getting my hands on the sMS-200 Ultra!

ChrisG

Bend, OR

Link to comment
1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Hmm, I've hit a snag similar to @hols

 

Here is an excerpt of the note I've sent to May. Since it's night time in Korea, I'm hoping to hear back tonight.

 

The glitch I am seeing is that the music stream pauses. Within 2 secs, I can resume it, by hitting play. This happens in both Roon Ready and DLNA modes. Based on this, I formed some possible theories:
  1. The problem does not cause either the sMS or the tX to reboot, as they take longer than 2 secs to come back up
  2. Perhaps the switch is malfunctioning. Experiment 1: take switch out of the loop.
  3. Perhaps the tX has an instantaneous current surge that the PS cannot handle, but not enough to reset the unit. Experiment 2: vary the PSUs for the tX.
Results:
  1. Experiment 1: no difference. Even without the switch in the path, within a few minutes of start, the pause still happens
  2. Experiment 2: So far, I have tried the following PSUs on the tX-USBultra:
    • Uptone LPS-1: 7V/1.1A
    • Breeze Audio Chinese LPS: 7.5V/30W (based on R30 core). Nominally it is 9V, but I had reduced it to 7.5V for a previous use.
    • Stock 9V/2A SMPS included with the tX unit
    • HDPlex 100, which can put out 9V/5A at least.
The problem still persists with all of these. This is a real mystery.
 
The only other things I can think of are:
  • Software bug in 3.7 firmware - which is unrelated to my hardware, so others should be reporting this, or
  • Some fault in my equipment.

I really hope it is not a side effect of the external clock mods. I really do not want to ship all this back, but may have to. :$

I am sorry that you have this issue :( I know it can very disappointing. In my case I have never had any issue with my tX which is the 12v version and I use it with JS-2. 

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, ChrisG said:

FWIW, I'm using an Uptone JS-2 to power my SOtM tx-USBUltra (which is reclocking the USB from an sMS-200 powered by an LPS-1) and there haven't been any hiccups (dac is Chord DAVE). And, yes, the tx-USBUltra made a noticeable improvement in SQ versus using the sMS-200 directly into DAVE. looking forward to getting my hands on the sMS-200 Ultra!

 

Hi Chris - what version of sMS-200 firmware are you on? Is it 3.7?

 

9 minutes ago, mozes said:

I am sorry that you have this issue :( I know it can very disappointing. In my case I have never had any issue with my tX which is the 12v version and I use it with JS-2. 

 

Thanks Moussa - yes, indeed it is. I am hoping the smart folks at SOtM have some ideas.

Link to comment
19 minutes ago, Forehaven said:

Would my Mellanox fiber card function the same way as the Adnaco PCIe fiber card?  Both output fiber...I don't understand all of this so excuse if stupid question.

Not a dumb question at all.  I was thinking the same thing since I have an Intel fiber NIC.  Unfortunately, using a fiber NIC connected to the Adnaco USB wont work since the Adnaco is not an Ethernet device so it wont "understand" the data it receives from a NIC.

12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2)

 

Other components:

UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments

Link to comment
24 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Not a dumb question at all.  I was thinking the same thing since I have an Intel fiber NIC.  Unfortunately, using a fiber NIC connected to the Adnaco USB wont work since the Adnaco is not an Ethernet device so it wont "understand" the data it receives from a NIC.

The Adnaco extends the PCIE serial bus protocols across the fiber, not ethernet protocols.  They are not compatible.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

Link to comment

Roy, is Adnaco doing the mods for you?  Meaning removing the clocks?  When asking sotm for the sclk-ex board, what exact clocks are you asking for, for the Adnaco? 

 

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

Link to comment

Thanks Tboooe and Larry.  Twas too good to be true lol

Ryzen 7 2700 PC Server, NUC7CJYH w. 4G Apacer RAM as Renderer/LPS 1.2 - IsoRegen/LPS-1/.2 - Singxer SU-1/LPS1.2 - Holo Spring Level 3 DAC - LTA MicroZOTL MZ2 - Modwright KWA 150 Signature Amp - Tidal Audio Piano's.  

.

Link to comment
On 04/05/2017 at 6:54 PM, austinpop said:

 

The Ultra stack has arrived! My setup is in a mess, but here are some pics:

 

If you have any burning questions, let me know, and I'll consider adding it to the list.

 

 

 

will you compare the USB route vs NAA?

Link to comment
On 5/4/2017 at 1:22 AM, rickca said:

I keep wondering why Jesus and John Swenson didn't recommend this 'direct path' from the beginning rather than advising users to connect the micro rendu to their router.  

 

 

John has already stated he doesn't fully understand what's going on and why the direct path should sound better and so when someone as wise and respected as John makes such statements, then I know that there still much about digital audio that is not well understood.

Link to comment
16 hours ago, ChrisG said:

 

Yes, v3.7

 

OK that's the same as I have.

 

17 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks Moussa - yes, indeed it is. I am hoping the smart folks at SOtM have some ideas.

 

Well, I did not hear anything back from SOtM, which is quite unusual, but upon checking, I realized Friday was a national holiday in South Korea. I'll have to see when they get back to me.

 

Meanwhile I've confirmed this momentary pauses are completely unrelated to PSUs, as I've tried both HDPlex 100W and el cheapo 30W LPSes on both the sMS-200 and the tX-USBultra with the same outcome. These PSUs are massively larger than needed, so there should be no issue with current spikes.

 

We shall see.

Link to comment
On 5/4/2017 at 1:54 AM, hols said:

I must make some correction here as to the use of Ultracap lps-1 to power the SOtM tx-USBUltra. Initially I thought it was the iPower charging not fast enough that caused the USBUltra to stop functioning but after 2 more days of running the USBUltra using Teradak to charge the Ultracap it turns out that the USBUltra also stops working several times. No pattern could be traced. It happens in Linux system or Windows10 system. It occurs both in light loads like chamber music or in heavy loads like orchestral pieces. So it is more likely that the USBUltra actually requires a current higher than 1.2A momentarily now and then so much so that the Ultracap lps-1 stops providing current and caused the USBUltra to stop. So I have to reset the system by pulling off the USB cable and reconnect. But frankly speaking the sound is so great that even though this might be a bit disturbing at times it is still worth it. Alternatively one would have to think about using a Vinnie rossi (can also deal with leaking current) or Paul Hynes power supply(well optimised and galvanically isolated) for it.

 

 

This is an interesting observation.  As many know, I cannot power my dX-USB HD Ultra with my LPS-1 and I had eventually come to the conclusion that SOtM inadvertently set my unit up for 9-12V input instead of 6.5-9V input since the current draw from this unit is barely 0.2A.  

 

In your situation, it's possible your DAC is drawing from the 5V VBUS which could have an impact.  Do you have a meter available to test how much current your tX-USB Ultra is drawing?

Link to comment
1 hour ago, pam1975 said:

will you compare the USB route vs NAA?

 

I am not sure what you're asking. I can make an educated guess that by:

  • "USB route" - you mean a direct attach from a computer music player to the DAC, and by
  • "NAA" - you mean an Ethernet endpoint between the computer (now a music server) and the DAC?

Just for reference, NAA technically refers to the specific case of an endpoint for the HQPlayer product, since the terms are different for Roon (Roon Ready) and DLNA (renderer).

 

But if this is what you mean, then I can't. I just don't have the investment in direct PC gear, and have never run a DAC directly from a PC/Mac.

 

Sorry.

 

My entire journey in computer audio has been with streaming and endpoints.

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I am not sure what you're asking. I can make an educated guess that by:

  • "USB route" - you mean a direct attach from a computer music player to the DAC, and by
  • "NAA" - you mean an Ethernet endpoint between the computer (now a music server) and the DAC?

Just for reference, NAA technically refers to the specific case of an endpoint for the HQPlayer product, since the terms are different for Roon (Roon Ready) and DLNA (renderer).

 

But if this is what you mean, then I can't. I just don't have the investment in direct PC gear, and have never run a DAC directly from a PC/Mac.

 

Sorry.

 

My entire journey in computer audio has been with streaming and endpoints.

sorry for the improper formulation but, yes this was my question :/

 

Thanks for your response!

Link to comment
On 5/4/2017 at 6:05 AM, tboooe said:

In my mind, it would seem the Adnaco should in theory have less noise and overall less processing "stuff" going on than the Server R2 based i3 mini pc I am currently using.  My main concern was not understanding what was happening when data was sent from the pcie card through the usb endpoint.  Your investigation definitely seems to support the notion that the Adnaco should be much less noisy using a PC as an NAA.  

 

So my only remaining question is if using an IsoRegen after an NAA levels the playing field for everything immediately upstream of it (PC based NAA, Adnaco, Rpi, Microrendu, SMS200, etc)?

7

 

I agree.  The Adnaco is attractive from the standpoint that it doesn't require a current hungry CPU or large amounts of RAM to do what it does.  Its circuitry is also remarkably simple, even simpler than an FMC, a microRendu or sMS-200 and so it may be a lower impedance device in comparison.

Link to comment
On 5/4/2017 at 3:22 AM, rickca said:

I keep wondering why Jesus and John Swenson didn't recommend this 'direct path' from the beginning rather than advising users to connect the micro rendu to their router.  

 

14 minutes ago, romaz said:

 

John has already stated he doesn't fully understand what's going on and why the direct path should sound better and so when someone as wise and respected as John makes such statements, then I know that there still much about digital audio that is not well understood.

 

There is that.  They are also selling a product which other than being a filter provides an opportunity to separate the PC/server from the rest of the equipment.  This is a huge benefit for some people, but if you take that away, the mR is only a filter.

Link to comment
On 5/4/2017 at 2:10 AM, hols said:

It's great that you experiment with the Adnaco too. We have used the Adnaco 5 years or so ago and was probably the first few audiophiles who used Adnaco for electrical isolation. At that time we used RME soundcard on the PCIe  slots and the result is very impressive. Single mode fibre system sounded better than multi mode fibres (This is a bit different from the observations in the other users of FMCs  here in CA) and good optical fibres also give better results. We have also tried USB cards on PCIe slots but it does not always work especially with USB3. This might be related to compatibility issues of the USB card with Linux. It would be interesting to learn the results of your experiments.

 

 

Thanks for this, hols.  I have modified my order for single mode instead of multimode.  Unfortunately, this cost me $80 more.  Optical fiber comes cheaply (about $10 for 1 meter) but it's hard to tell what's good and what's not.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...