A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, andervt said:

Try a small shot glass or something like that 🙂  This is not very commercial , and is not misleading but informing, and a good advice to improve the sound in your system.

 

Small shot glass experiment:

-first you take four shot glasses and flll them with whiskey.

-then drink them in short succesion.

-turn the glasses upside down and place your product on top of the four glasses.

-start listening and you’ll find a reasonable bump in SQ.

 

hahahaha, just joking. Try it, but without the whiskey.

 

 Cheers  🥃 

 

[andervt]

11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Trust me, things won’t work out well for you if you keep talking about products you sell. Over the last 11 years this has happened countless times. People try to massage their language into something beneficial for the forum, but I can tell you it never works. You will turn readers against you and leave a trail of evidence that’s forever searchable. 

 

I can’t recommend strongly enough that you stop writing about products you carry. If you can’t stop you will be banned. 

Yesterday I wrote about three listeningtests performed with products frequently discussed in this thread.

The post was accused for beeing commercial and I was accused for having other motives then I have.

I tried to explain and emphasize why I wrote the post today.

 

If this is not acceptable please feel free to delete my user and posts.

[BigAlMc]

3 minutes ago, andervt said:

Yesterday I wrote about three listeningtests performed with products frequently discussed in this thread.

The post was accused for beeing commercial and I was accused for having other motives then I have.

I tried to explain and emphasize why I wrote the post today.

 

If this is not acceptable please feel free to delete my user and posts.

 

The problem here is that your finding (that the SPS-500 beats the LPS-1 and LPS-1.2) is the opposite of what many others here have found.

 

I currently own all three of the above and the ONLY thing the SPS-500 beats either of the other two on is available amperage.

 

The LPS1 sounds better, the 1.2 better still.

 

Factor in your commercial interest in selling the SoTM kit and your post raises eyebrows.

 

Dunno about the NUC vs SMS-200 claims but a lot of very experienced users (myself included) are very happy with what they are achieving with NUCs and I don't hear many others advocating the SoTM renderer as a step up.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[austinpop]

24 minutes ago, andervt said:

Yesterday I wrote about three listeningtests performed with products frequently discussed in this thread.

The post was accused for beeing commercial and I was accused for having other motives then I have.

I tried to explain and emphasize why I wrote the post today.

 

If this is not acceptable please feel free to delete my user and posts.

 

Hello,

 

I don't have a problem with any posters that describe their own listening experiences. The nice thing about this thread is that no one is forcing anyone to do anything. If your findings are contrary to what the majority are finding, that does not make you wrong, per se. Different people hear differently, and value aspects of the experience differently. That's all cool.

 

The problem arises when it comes to credibility and motives. Most readers are intelligent and discerning enough to weigh all factors when evaluating a poster's findings and recommendations. Is the person a newbie to the forum? Or do they have a history of posting findings that others have found helpful? Does the poster have a commercial affiliation in the audio trade?

 

This last one is the stumbling block for dealers, distributors, resellers, and manufacturers. I accept that many, if not all, who fall into this category are also audiophiles. And many are used to giving customers (or potential customers) frank and honest advice. But what works in an in-person interaction does not translate well onto an internet forum.

 

As @The Computer Audiophile mentioned, many, many trade insiders have tried to walk the fine line on this forum between their own vested interest and what they consider as unbiased advice. Most have failed. I think you should just accept that as a dealer, you cannot escape the reality that whenever you talk about a product you sell or promote, you will be viewed as biased. That's life.

 

You may want to study the exceptions to the norm - people like @Superdad, @PeterSt - who manage to navigate the forums while declaring their industry affiliation. The trick is to provide expertise on the products with which you are affiliated, and avoid bad mouthing your competitors. Only then do you stand a chance of being heard.

 

And btw - even then it's incredibly hard.

 

 

[andervt]

13 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

The problem here is that your finding (that the SPS-500 beats the LPS-1 and LPS-1.2) is the opposite of what many others here have found.

 

I currently own all three of the above and the ONLY thing the SPS-500 beats either of the other two on is available amperage.

 

The LPS1 sounds better, the 1.2 better still.

 

Factor in your commercial interest in selling the SoTM kit and your post raises eyebrows.

 

Dunno about the NUC vs SMS-200 claims but a lot of very experienced users (myself included) are very happy with what they are achieving with NUCs and I don't hear many others advocating the SoTM renderer as a step up.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Thank you for your comments Alan.

 

I understand that you see the findings as a problem regarding the powersupplys.

But my findings is the reasons for why I wrote the post in the beginning.

In my system there is no doubt which power is the best. And this is something potential buyers deserves to know so they can test this themselves. The owner of the LPS power I tested is dissapointed with the result since he bought the power based on this thread.

This could relate to the effort I have put into filtering and grounding on the AC supply, to the other electronics used, the Norwegian AC network beeing different built then most other countries. I do not know, and do not feel like putting more time in checking at this time. It is easyer for me to use the best sounding power. The point is that there is worth checking how these powersupplies sound in your own system.

 

The NUC owner is the same as the LPS owner, and there is no disagreement between us which of the units that sounds the best. This NUC is a 4 core Pentium and I understand that the I7 NUC`s sound better?

But I have only heard this one, and it is not as good,  but a lot cheaper. I use feet under the boxes and this lifts the quality, but it also did so on the NUC.

There was an improvement in sound whenEunhasu updated to 4.51 and this version was used last time.

But we tested these to units against each other a few weeks ago with an older Eunhasu and the result was the same.

 

If anyone in my corner of the world have a LPS power and whish to hear what I am describing they are welcome here.

 

Cheers

Terje

[jean-michel6]

23 hours ago, Geir-T said:

Did you use any filtering on the SPS500 reducing the amount of noise this SMPS supply to the mains possibly "polluting" other (unfiltered?) components in your system? 

No I don’t use any filter and I have never observed that it does pollute other components. 

[Johnseye]

24 minutes ago, andervt said:

Thank you for your comments Alan.

 

I understand that you see the findings as a problem regarding the powersupplys.

But my findings is the reasons for why I wrote the post in the beginning.

In my system there is no doubt which power is the best. And this is something potential buyers deserves to know so they can test this themselves. The owner of the LPS power I tested is dissapointed with the result since he bought the power based on this thread.

This could relate to the effort I have put into filtering and grounding on the AC supply, to the other electronics used, the Norwegian AC network beeing different built then most other countries. I do not know, and do not feel like putting more time in checking at this time. It is easyer for me to use the best sounding power. The point is that there is worth checking how these powersupplies sound in your own system.

 

The NUC owner is the same as the LPS owner, and there is no disagreement between us which of the units that sounds the best. This NUC is a 4 core Pentium and I understand that the I7 NUC`s sound better?

But I have only heard this one, and it is not as good,  but a lot cheaper. I use feet under the boxes and this lifts the quality, but it also did so on the NUC.

There was an improvement in sound whenEunhasu updated to 4.51 and this version was used last time.

But we tested these to units against each other a few weeks ago with an older Eunhasu and the result was the same.

 

If anyone in my corner of the world have a LPS power and whish to hear what I am describing they are welcome here.

 

Cheers

Terje

 

You should stop posting.  You can't seem to help your self promotion.  I've held back on several sarcastic comments which come to mind when reading your posts.

[Geir-T]

8 hours ago, rickca said:

As I suggested earlier, you need to compare NUC7PJYH + tX-USBultra to sMS-200ultra Neo + tX-USBultra ... or just NUC7PJYH vs sMS-200ultra.

 

The Paul Hynes SR4 is wonderful with the NUC7PJYH.  I don't have an sPS-500 so I can't tell you how they compare.  The only way to buy an SR4 is to order directly from Paul Hynes ([email protected]).

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Paul Hynes SR4 is absolutely on my radar, and I will decide on whether to buy one to check it out after I have tested how the SPS500 compares against the LPS 1.2 in my own system.  

 

My expectations to how the NUC7PJYH would compare to 200 Ultra Neo +tX-USBultra was influenced from info in this thread. After all users of the full «spaghetti solution» including external master clock have changed to the NUC alternative. 

 

Based on my experience so far comparing these products, I can understand the change to NUC from a cost perspective. After all the NUC alternative is unbeatable in value for money and easily betters my MicroRendu. 

 

 

[Superdad]

33 minutes ago, andervt said:

The owner of the LPS power I tested is dissapointed with the result since he bought the power based on this thread.

 

Uh oh.

If you are referring to Geir T.'s purchase of an UltraCap LPS-1 and LPS-1.2, the facts do not at all agree with your above assertion!

 

Geir's original LPS-1 was delivered to him on November 15th, 2016.  This giant thread was not started until January 1, 2017.

 

Geir ordered the new generation UltraCap LPS-1.2 on February 20th, 2018.  He was among the first 150 purchasers of the new model (excluding the 100 people who ordered LPS-1s at the end of 2017 and received the very first LPS-1.2s at no additional charge).

 

Only a couple of passing mentions of the LPS-1.2 were made in this thread at the beginning of 2018. It would be a stretch to say those influenced him. And certainly no discussion of NUCs with our supplies were ever made back then as there was pretty much no discussion of NUCs in this thread at that time.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

You may want to study the exceptions to the norm - people like @Superdad, @PeterSt - who manage to navigate the forums while declaring their industry affiliation...

 

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

And btw - even then it's incredibly hard.

 

It can be hard--and I have taken my lumps.   The trick for me is avoiding posting about listening impressions and just sticking to the facts.  Even then I mange to bother some people...

[rickca]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

Even then I mange to bother some people

Well nobody likes mange.

[bobfa]

Today I tried to test to see if the length of the cable between the server and the endpoint made a difference in sound. 

 

I moved my Sonic Transporter and the HDPlex 200 power supply up to the living room and put them in the rack with the rest of the gear.  I started with a 1m Transparent Audio HP ethernet and then moved to a 15ft cat 6 cable between the server and the endpoint.  The HDPLEX power supply was hooked to the power filter system with a Transparent HP power cord.  For reference, the server is usually in the basement with about 50ft of generic in-wall CAT 6 cable.  

 

Everything I listened to had this edge to it.  Some would call it glare???  It was uncomfortable.  Due to the sound, I decided not to build a 50ft jumper to test.  I do not know precisely what was going on.  I did not look at any network or diagnostics, etc.   I moved the server back to the basement 4 hours later!

 

Now it was bad timing as Roon had just updated to 1.6 and I moved the system, so two things changed so I had to move back to the original state to ensure that the software change was not the problem.    When I returned the server to the basement, I discovered that I had the two ethernet ports uses swapped.  I had the endpoint on left instead of the right.  

 

What I was trying to listen for is if I could find a difference in ethernet cable length caused sonic differences.  I think something else is going on...  I am not sure we have any value from my testing today, but there it is!  I call it failing faster.

 

 

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

You should stop posting.  You can't seem to help your self promotion.  I've held back on several sarcastic comments which come to mind when reading your posts.

 

but if he slightly modifies his username from andervt  it will read advert 

[PeterSt]

4 hours ago, austinpop said:

I think you should just accept that as a dealer, you cannot escape the reality that whenever you talk about a product you sell or promote, you will be viewed as biased. That's life.

 

@andervt, I think if you read this 5 times or so, you maybe start to see the intelligence of the remark. The "that's life" is not figurative. It's how it works.

 

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

The trick for me is avoiding posting about listening impressions [...]

 

I was reading through the/your last posts and I had the same impression (sitting back and thinking over how it actually works). Also see the [...] I put there, because I like to leave that out for something to agree with (facts in audio ?? - haha).

 

But now some counterweight ...

 

Terje did not sign up this January, but two years before that.

With a stubborn face Terje declared that nobody would have found him or his company when looking for feet. And indeed it is so that right after announcing them he proposed a cheaper DIY solution (I read it, and I plainly read it like that). But try Google. And try it with SOtM if you still have the urge.

Terje is a customer. Hahaha.

 

And you know, it indeed works better if you know what your market is, and this is about competition. No wait, they are your friends. Approach it like that almost explicitly, works better. Don't be stubborn about it. Here, came in during typing of this:

 

 

As if the devil plays with it (as we say it over here). Not even opened yet (but knowing the contents). Possibly you won't understand. Quite a few others will. @Superdad most certainly will. The history behind this works for life. Everybody should "behave" like that, although it feels quite counter productive. It is not. So Terje, IMO it is best not to further defend yourself as you seem only to be stubborn which is very OK, but now it hurts you which is not OK for you. OK ? 

 

---

 

Indeed it is not easy. People regularly ask me for advice which more often is about third party products than about our own (odd to begin with). Someone in this thread will recognize that he did so, only 48 hours ago. I gave a brief response and thought to leave it at that. It is about virtual competition and I was negative about it. Now I am asked to elaborate if possible. I did not yet because this is hard. And this is even in PM fashion, so go figure (but it could even be more hard). Suddenly there is a relation to your posts, Terje, which I only learned of right now. At least I see the relation, maybe it is unintentional. What if I would have elaborated with my own objective ideas / experiences not knowing the context, which next will always fire back somehow (because it will hurt someone).

It is better never to be negative, never mind you could be. And that small picture I injected above, in the end is about the same. This is about millions and millions of dollars. Better be friends instead of debunking a product, never mind how much you think it is justified.

 

Rajiv, sorry to mess with your thread ! 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

Here, came in during typing of this:

 

 

As if the devil plays with it (as we say it over here). Not even opened yet (but knowing the contents). Possibly you won't understand. Quite a few others will. @Superdad most certainly will.

 

Hi Peter:

I received the same e-mail tonight but I knew it was coming 6 months ago when Gil B. left the company and we had a long talk.  It's really quite okay as we have good supply, and if ever we run low we can call up the very nice Mr.Xuanqian Wang at Auralic.  They bought 10K pieces and e-mailed me with an offer for some about 18 months ago.  Of course we could move beyond into a more intelligent direction...  

[greenleo]

On 1/18/2019 at 4:01 AM, davide256 said:

Has anyone found a device with a better  hardware implementation than NUC which can be used with AL as Roon endpoint?  I do find it freaky/worrisome that just removing the USB  drive after boot to RAM makes such a difference. And intriguing that an RPI can come so close to  Pentium NUC as endpoint. Still hoping that Sonore makes AL an option for xRendu...

Isn't it a once for all solution until the next power interrupt?  Can the endpoint be left on 7x24 given that it's 10W or 15W?  Anyway that's what I do with my NAA endpoiunbt.

[R1200CL]

7 hours ago, andervt said:

This could relate to the effort I have put into filtering and grounding on the AC supply, to the other electronics used, the Norwegian AC network beeing different built then most other countries.

 

Not all Norwegian has IT. Many now these days has TN. 

And 220 is considered better than 120 😀 (Ref Charles Hanson)

 

What efforts have you done if I can ask ?

(I use Isotek)

 

 

 

[andervt]

12 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Hello,

 

I don't have a problem with any posters that describe their own listening experiences. The nice thing about this thread is that no one is forcing anyone to do anything. If your findings are contrary to what the majority are finding, that does not make you wrong, per se. Different people hear differently, and value aspects of the experience differently. That's all cool.

 

The problem arises when it comes to credibility and motives. Most readers are intelligent and discerning enough to weigh all factors when evaluating a poster's findings and recommendations. Is the person a newbie to the forum? Or do they have a history of posting findings that others have found helpful? Does the poster have a commercial affiliation in the audio trade?

 

This last one is the stumbling block for dealers, distributors, resellers, and manufacturers. I accept that many, if not all, who fall into this category are also audiophiles. And many are used to giving customers (or potential customers) frank and honest advice. But what works in an in-person interaction does not translate well onto an internet forum.

 

As @The Computer Audiophile mentioned, many, many trade insiders have tried to walk the fine line on this forum between their own vested interest and what they consider as unbiased advice. Most have failed. I think you should just accept that as a dealer, you cannot escape the reality that whenever you talk about a product you sell or promote, you will be viewed as biased. That's life.

 

You may want to study the exceptions to the norm - people like @Superdad, @PeterSt - who manage to navigate the forums while declaring their industry affiliation. The trick is to provide expertise on the products with which you are affiliated, and avoid bad mouthing your competitors. Only then do you stand a chance of being heard.

 

And btw - even then it's incredibly hard.

 

 

Thank you for a well written post Austinpop (as usual)

 

I perfectly agree with everything you write!

 

As said repetedly, I should have informed that I was in the trade when i first wrote the post. Readers should know that. 

 

I have experienced and accepted a long time ago that my opinions will be viewed as biased, and that is understandable and ok with me. This is a question about thrust and getting to know eachother. I dont think I will be a frequent poster in this forum, so there will not be many that get to know me here.

 

I have no expertise in the powersupply I tested. Not involved in development, production or distribusjon although I know what technology is used. I do have expertise in other products, but this does not fit in this thread.

Over the years I have done a lot of improving on existing powersupplys, commercially building batterysupplyes and experiments to get control over the HF noise in audio systems which is a big factor for the soundquality. Listening to these kind of differences is not new to me.

So when we listened to these two powersupplys in my system, heard the differences and I also found out what was written about these units in this thread, I would have felt betrayal not  telling what we heard.

 

This was a direct listening comparison, and doing a comparison without revealing one of the models would have no value.

To me this is not bad mouthing.

 

Superdad and PeterSt are presumably good at navigating the forums and providing expertise. I have not read their posts.

I wrote what I did as an enthusiast sharing my experiences.

Doing this with two hats is difficult, I know from many years of experience.

I will be mistrusted of many  when I share my experiences directly, but I can live with that.

 

Terje

 

[andervt]

12 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

 

It can be hard--and I have taken my lumps.   The trick for me is avoiding posting about listening impressions and just sticking to the facts.  Even then I mange to bother some people...

Yes I know Superdad. I have done this in many years but not much here.

I can tak my lumps and live with that.

 

Thank you for your advice regarding listening comparisons. But this is the most interesting part though😊

 

I am sorry that I put your product in disfavour of an other, this was not the goal. The goal is to share my listening experiences in an honest way.

As you wrote me there are many different opinions regarding these, so I guess you will manage. But this fact makes it even more interesting to me.

 

Cheers

[andervt]

9 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

@andervt, I think if you read this 5 times or so, you maybe start to see the intelligence of the remark. The "that's life" is not figurative. It's how it works.

 

 

I was reading through the/your last posts and I had the same impression (sitting back and thinking over how it actually works). Also see the [...] I put there, because I like to leave that out for something to agree with (facts in audio ?? - haha).

 

But now some counterweight ...

 

Terje did not sign up this January, but two years before that.

With a stubborn face Terje declared that nobody would have found him or his company when looking for feet. And indeed it is so that right after announcing them he proposed a cheaper DIY solution (I read it, and I plainly read it like that). But try Google. And try it with SOtM if you still have the urge.

Terje is a customer. Hahaha.

 

And you know, it indeed works better if you know what your market is, and this is about competition. No wait, they are your friends. Approach it like that almost explicitly, works better. Don't be stubborn about it. Here, came in during typing of this:

 

 

As if the devil plays with it (as we say it over here). Not even opened yet (but knowing the contents). Possibly you won't understand. Quite a few others will. @Superdad most certainly will. The history behind this works for life. Everybody should "behave" like that, although it feels quite counter productive. It is not. So Terje, IMO it is best not to further defend yourself as you seem only to be stubborn which is very OK, but now it hurts you which is not OK for you. OK ? 

 

---

 

Indeed it is not easy. People regularly ask me for advice which more often is about third party products than about our own (odd to begin with). Someone in this thread will recognize that he did so, only 48 hours ago. I gave a brief response and thought to leave it at that. It is about virtual competition and I was negative about it. Now I am asked to elaborate if possible. I did not yet because this is hard. And this is even in PM fashion, so go figure (but it could even be more hard). Suddenly there is a relation to your posts, Terje, which I only learned of right now. At least I see the relation, maybe it is unintentional. What if I would have elaborated with my own objective ideas / experiences not knowing the context, which next will always fire back somehow (because it will hurt someone).

It is better never to be negative, never mind you could be. And that small picture I injected above, in the end is about the same. This is about millions and millions of dollars. Better be friends instead of debunking a product, never mind how much you think it is justified.

 

Rajiv, sorry to mess with your thread ! 

Thak you for your good thoughts Peter.

This is time consuming and as you say ruin the thread, so I will only comment what i ment with " they would never find me". Of course everyone could find the products I commented and buy. But it would not be my name that popped up when they googled  the product, and I cant see why they should put an effort in finding my name to buy.

 

Cheers

Terje

[andervt]

13 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Uh oh.

If you are referring to Geir T.'s purchase of an UltraCap LPS-1 and LPS-1.2, the facts do not at all agree with your above assertion!

 

Geir's original LPS-1 was delivered to him on November 15th, 2016.  This giant thread was not started until January 1, 2017.

 

Geir ordered the new generation UltraCap LPS-1.2 on February 20th, 2018.  He was among the first 150 purchasers of the new model (excluding the 100 people who ordered LPS-1s at the end of 2017 and received the very first LPS-1.2s at no additional charge).

 

Only a couple of passing mentions of the LPS-1.2 were made in this thread at the beginning of 2018. It would be a stretch to say those influenced him. And certainly no discussion of NUCs with our supplies were ever made back then as there was pretty much no discussion of NUCs in this thread at that time.

I know GeirT and he bought them after reading about LPS-1 on the internet. Maybe in an other thread? Not important I think. He have also used your powers on other units like the Microrendu.

[andervt]

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Not all Norwegian has IT. Many now these days has TN. 

And 220 is considered better than 120 😀 (Ref Charles Hanson)

 

What efforts have you done if I can ask ?

(I use Isotek)

 

 

 

Not all in Norway has IT. But that is most common still.

 

I have a large earthing wire directly under the floor in my basement listening room. This ends directly in my AC outlet.

Rugged distributor with Furutech NCF outlets. AC powercords with induvidual HF filters for all units. Approx 20mm2 earthing area in every powercord for hf draining. Capacitor decoupling on both phases and inbetween phases before distributor and to an other earthreference than the  soundsystem.

[Advieira]

15 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

The problem here is that your finding (that the SPS-500 beats the LPS-1 and LPS-1.2) is the opposite of what many others here have found.

Alan

 

Hans Beekhuyzen, when reviewed LPS-1, compared exaclty the same quality of Sbooster MkI, each one of yours own strenghts. And when reviewd SMS200Ultra with SPS500 couldnt hear any difference with Sbooster MKI. 

So, they should have the same SQ. And you can prefer one or another.

 

Audiobacon review https://audiobacon.net/2017/11/18/sotm-sms-200ultra-network-audio-player-sps-500-power-supply-review/ gets the same conclusion. 

[Cornan]

Today I got the time to do an initial test of the WD My Passport Wireless Pro as a streamer/HDD.

 

Here is a picture for size reference to the iPad mini plus the test track “Dust Layers” with Mimicking Birds played through LightningDS to my Aries Mini. Same FLAC track is also played via Tidal through LightningDS.

 

 

Here is also a picture to show my current messy setup.

 

 

To cut the story short the FLAC track through WD My Passport Wireless Pro wins hands down with a more detailed presentation, deeper/fuller bass and better pin-point of instruments. Tidal sounds a tad duller in comparence.

 

Listening to a track by Hunter Sounder as well confirms everything. It’s simply better!

 

I’ve tried NAS with HDD and cloud streaming from Google Drive before in my setup and Tidal have always won those battles. Not this time! The WD is really a swiss army knife device that pulls the trick of sounding great with music as well. Now I wish that I bought the 4tb version instead of the 2tb.

 

The integration with LightningDS is awesome, so it was lightning quick to change between the two tracks.

 

Over & out! 🔊 

[Advieira]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

 

 

 

 

Whats the power supply you are using with the Brooklyn?