A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[romaz]

11 hours ago, Theobetley said:

 

So Romaz I know you recommended a pcie adapter for cf cards somewhere in this thread but I cant find it. Can you direct me to the post or simply reiterate the adapter you tried?

 

 

Sure.  You can use something like the following:

 

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Express-Controller-Adapter-PEX2IDE/dp/B000YAX13Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1491347818&sr=1-1&keywords=pcie+to+ide

 

I chose to use a combination of these two pieces.

 

Here's the first piece:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AZ9T41M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Here's the second piece:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036DDXUW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Theobetley]

On 3/21/2017 at 4:50 PM, tboooe said:

Agreed.  I was wondering the same thing.

Thanks

 

[lmitche]

Today, the two Terra Grande cables arrived.  I should have ordered three. In replacing the existing cables it appears I had two 12 inch bjc cat 6a cables and a third bjc cat 6a three foot cable held together with two EN70HD isolation transformers.  One end runs to the nic, the other to the Asus EAN66 wifi adapter.

 

Without thinking too much, I replaced the bjc chain with the two TG cables and one EN70HD.  Listening to this SQ took a major nose dive. I went back to the bjc chain immediately.

 

I'm thinking two EN70HDs are better then one.  UGH!!!! I never realized the benefit delivered by the second isolation transformer, I just stuck it on the end of the cable as I had no other use for it. Remember my music is now stored locally, so the network is only used for control signals or Tidal. As the second transformer add was simultaneous to the move to the hard disk, I can't be sure which change added this most benefit.  More to come.

 

It is also raining SATA cables here, at a cost of about 50 cents each, so much to do.

[romaz]

13 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Today, the two Terra Grande cables arrived.  I should have ordered three.  In replacing the existing cables it appears I had two 12 inch bjc cat 6a cables and a third bjc cat 6a three foot cable held together with two EN70HD isolation transformers.  One end runs to the nic, the other to the Asus EAN66 wifi adapter.

 

Without thinking too much, I replaced the bjc chain with the two TG cables and one EN70HD.  Listening to this SQ took a big nose dive. I went back to the bjc chain immediately.

 

I'm thinking two EN70HDs are better then one.  UGH!!!!  More to come.

 

 

Thanks, Larry.  So are you suggesting that you prefer the Terra Grande to the BJC 6A but that you need 3 of them to sound better than what you have now?

[lmitche]

5 minutes ago, romaz said:

 

Thanks, Larry.  So are you suggesting that you prefer the Terra Grande to the BJC 6A but that you need 3 of them to sound better than what you have now?

Nope, I can't make any conclusions.  I need a third cable to make a valid Terra Grande comparison to the BJC chain as I need two EN70HDs inline. Make sense?

[greenleo]

On 2017/4/3 at 2:55 PM, romaz said:

 

……

While the Toshiba hard drive when connected to the Pachanko SATA cable and powered by the LPS-1 also sounded very good, ，……

Thank you for your reply, Roy.  Where do you get an cable to power a SSD by LPS-1?

[tboooe]

On 4/2/2017 at 2:41 PM, amgradmd said:

Cool. Let me know what you think!

Well I got the Tera Grand Cat 7 cables in 3 ft lengths and used them from my network bridge to my Server PC and for the direct connection between the Server PC and NAA PC.  I cannot be 100% and I doubt I could consistently tell the difference between my previous Blue Jean Cat 6 cables but I think the Tera Grands have a bit better extension at the higher frequencies.  At this point, I am inclined to keep them in my system if for nothing more than peace of mind.  Thank you for the tip.

[romaz]

4 hours ago, greenleo said:

Thank you for your reply, Roy.  Where do you get an cable to power a SSD by LPS-1?

 

You'll need to get your soldering gun out.

 

You can use any typical SATA power cable.  Here is a photo:

 

 

Ignore the orange (3.3V) and yellow (12V) wires.  Using the red (5V) wire and the two black wires (ground), solder them onto a 2.1mm x 5.5mm female connector similar to the following:

 

 

Not hard at all but if you want a better quality SATA power cable, you can have Pachanko Cables make one for you.  Presently, I am using the above cheapo cable.

[austinpop]

Hi @romaz

 

Now that the tX-USBultra is released, the question will quickly turn to appropriate power supplies. May has already said that the power draw will exceed the capacity of the LPS-1, and will likely be around 1.5 amps.

 

Since yours is one of the only sCLK enabled "Ultra" chains in the wild  - do you have the means to measure current draw? I was just wondering what the current draw is for:

• your modded dX-USB HD "Ultra", and
• your modded sMS-200?

I suspect this is hard without some instrumentation.

[romaz]

17 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Hi @romaz

 

Now that the tX-USBultra is released, the question will quickly turn to appropriate power supplies. May has already said that the power draw will exceed the capacity of the LPS-1, and will likely be around 1.5 amps.

 

Since yours is one of the only sCLK enabled "Ultra" chains in the wild  - do you have the means to measure current draw? I was just wondering what the current draw is for:

• your modded dX-USB HD "Ultra", and
• your modded sMS-200?

I suspect this is hard without some instrumentation.

 

I will measure it this evening and will report back buy I suspect my dX-USB HD Ultra just barely draws more than 1.1A (less than 1.5A for sure).  Since the clock on my modded sMS-200 Ultra is powered by the dX-USB HD Ultra, my sMS-200 actually draws less current than a stock sMS-200 and is easily powered by an LPS-1.

 

The current draw of the tX-USB Ultra will depend on how many devices you connect to it.  As a USB 2.0 hub, it is supposed to offer up to 500mA per USB port based on the USB 2.0 specification and as this hub has 2 ports, it needs to offer at least 1A but that doesn't mean that will be the draw.  If you connect only 1 component (such as your DAC) and it doesn't draw from the 5V VBUS, the draw could be well below 1A and could potentially be powered by an LPS-1 (at least this is my hunch).  I think SOtM is just covering their bases.

[austinpop]

26 minutes ago, romaz said:

 

I will measure it this evening and will report back buy I suspect my dX-USB HD Ultra just barely draws more than 1.1A (less than 1.5A for sure).  Since the clock on my modded sMS-200 Ultra is powered by the dX-USB HD Ultra, my sMS-200 actually draws less current than a stock sMS-200 and is easily powered by an LPS-1.

 

The current draw of the tX-USB Ultra will depend on how many devices you connect to it.  As a USB 2.0 hub, it is supposed to offer up to 500mA per USB port based on the USB 2.0 specification and as this hub has 2 ports, it needs to offer at least 1A but that doesn't mean that will be the draw.  If you connect only 1 component (such as your DAC) and it doesn't draw from the 5V VBUS, the draw could be well below 1A and could potentially be powered by an LPS-1 (at least this is my hunch).  I think SOtM is just covering their bases.

 

Thanks, Roy, I suspect you are right. Your measurements data will be very useful.

 

I bet I am not alone in thinking the tX-USBultra would be far more financially attractive IF it could still be powered by an LPS-1 rather than a much more expensive option like your Paul Hynes or the VR Mini.

[Johnseye]

12 hours ago, tboooe said:

Well I got the Tera Grand Cat 7 cables in 3 ft lengths and used them from my network bridge to my Server PC and for the direct connection between the Server PC and NAA PC.  I cannot be 100% and I doubt I could consistently tell the difference between my previous Blue Jean Cat 6 cables but I think the Tera Grands have a bit better extension at the higher frequencies.  At this point, I am inclined to keep them in my system if for nothing more than peace of mind.  Thank you for the tip.

 

I had been using these cables for a month or so with both my server to switch and from FMC to mRendu.  My server is on a different circuit than my other equipment which can cause a ground loop.  This is exactly what I think happened when using this cable.  I was getting a low hum from my speakers and when I swapped this cable out with a standard cat5e the hum went away.  This is repeatable.  I have no doubt the cable is contributing.  It's not the cause, that's the different circuits and a grounding issue. It is amplifying the hum however.  The only thing I can visibly see being a difference is the metal connectors on the Tera Grand.

 

I then pulled it from the FMC to mRendu and swapped it with a Blue Jean cat6a.  There was no ground loop concerns with this connection.  I "think" I can hear a difference, but it's subtle and I can't be sure.  I'll need to test it a lot more.  Question is, what is this cable doing?

[austinpop]

22 hours ago, romaz said:

 

I will measure it this evening and will report back buy I suspect my dX-USB HD Ultra just barely draws more than 1.1A (less than 1.5A for sure).  Since the clock on my modded sMS-200 Ultra is powered by the dX-USB HD Ultra, my sMS-200 actually draws less current than a stock sMS-200 and is easily powered by an LPS-1.

 

The current draw of the tX-USB Ultra will depend on how many devices you connect to it.  As a USB 2.0 hub, it is supposed to offer up to 500mA per USB port based on the USB 2.0 specification and as this hub has 2 ports, it needs to offer at least 1A but that doesn't mean that will be the draw.  If you connect only 1 component (such as your DAC) and it doesn't draw from the 5V VBUS, the draw could be well below 1A and could potentially be powered by an LPS-1 (at least this is my hunch).  I think SOtM is just covering their bases.

 

While I wait on your measurements, let me ask - what's a good way to measure current draw? I have a basic multimeter, nothing fancy.

 

Looking at the tX-USBultra manual, SOtM strongly recommend using only one USB port, else SQ will be degraded. I'm not sure what the rationale for 2 ports even is for an ostensibly audio-focused component.

 

My DAC, the Codex is a bit peculiar, in that it has a built-in LPS for the headphone amp section, but the DAC appears to be Vbus powered. Actually, I don't know if that is strictly true - i.e. does it actually draw current - but it certainly requires the presence of Vbus 5V and GND to function.

[tboooe]

2 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

While I wait on your measurements, let me ask - what's a good way to measure current draw? I have a basic multimeter, nothing fancy.

 

 

Just measure amps perhaps by opening up the unit and finding the DC wires.  From there you can calculate wattage since you already know input voltage.

[tedwoods]

13 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

While I wait on your measurements, let me ask - what's a good way to measure current draw? I have a basic multimeter, nothing fancy.

 

Looking at the tX-USBultra manual, SOtM strongly recommend using only one USB port, else SQ will be degraded. I'm not sure what the rationale for 2 ports even is for an ostensibly audio-focused component.

 

My DAC, the Codex is a bit peculiar, in that it has a built-in LPS for the headphone amp section, but the DAC appears to be Vbus powered. Actually, I don't know if that is strictly true - i.e. does it actually draw current - but it certainly requires the presence of Vbus 5V and GND to function.

I think maybe you could facilitate the use a dual headed USB cable with the tX-USBUltra: one port with the 5V bus engaged and one port with the 5v off as data only.

[austinpop]

56 minutes ago, tedwoods said:

I think maybe you could facilitate the use a dual headed USB cable with the tX-USBUltra: one port with the 5V bus engaged and one port with the 5v off as data only.

 

Ok understood, but assuming your target is a single DAC, is there value to sending VBUS and GND from one port and + and - from another on a dual headed cable? How is that superior to just sending all 4 on the same cable?

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, tboooe said:

Just measure amps perhaps by opening up the unit and finding the DC wires.  From there you can calculate wattage since you already know input voltage.

 

In my current chain, my DAC is preceded by the W4S Recovery (RUR). I'm leery of opening either the RUR or my DAC.

 

What's the view of "USB multimeter" devices like this one: https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Digital-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Capacitance/dp/B00S2HJAUE ? Are they any good?

[tedwoods]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Ok understood, but assuming your target is a single DAC, is there value to sending VBUS and GND from one port and + and - from another on a dual headed cable? How is that superior to just sending all 4 on the same cable?

The very existence of dual headed cables (i-fi and such) or semi dual headed cables (like the Curious) is based on the theory of physical separation of the power and data lines and the beneficial effect that absence of proximity has on sound.

Companies like i-fi for example also use twin USB ports on their hubs, for the same reason.

Regardless of whether that theory has any merit, if you have the ability to move power and data away from each other, in a scenario where the DAC is USB powered, all for the better. It's always nice to have more options.

[austinpop]

30 minutes ago, tedwoods said:

The very existence of dual headed cables (i-fi and such) or semi dual headed cables (like the Curious) is based on the theory of physical separation of the power and data lines and the beneficial effect that absence of proximity has on sound.

Companies like i-fi for example also use twin USB ports on their hubs, for the same reason.

Regardless of whether that theory has any merit, if you have the ability to move power and data away from each other, in a scenario where the DAC is USB powered, all for the better. It's always nice to have more options.

 

Ah OK. Duly noted. I used to have a Lightspeed 2g cable around here somewhere. I may have to dig that out of the drawer and try it when the time comes!

[ElviaCaprice]

Using an adapter makes the need for any dual headed USB chord or separate Vbus mute.   As long as one uses clean power, like the LPS-1 for powering the preceding upstream component.

If one would like to remain with an LPS-1 for powering all the new sotm components,  I suppose one could get the new clocking board separate and power the clocking board and each sotm component with their own LPS-1.

What I don't like is Sotm's pricing without the clock.  Really they should offer these components for less than the previous non ultra ones.

Thus in my opinion these new ultra components are far too expensive and I don't think they will sell very many. 

[austinpop]

9 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Using an adapter makes the need for any dual headed USB chord or separate Vbus mute.   As long as one uses clean power, like the LPS-1 for powering the preceding upstream component.

If one would like to remain with an LPS-1 for powering all the new sotm components,  I suppose one could get the new clocking board separate and power the clocking board and each sotm component with their own LPS-1.

What I don't like is Sotm's pricing without the clock.  Really they should offer these components for less than the previous non ultra ones.

Thus in my opinion these new ultra components are far too expensive and I don't think they will sell very many. 

 

Agreed, the pricing for these Ultra products is rather high.

 

The same thought occurred to me, and I asked May - why not offer the sCLK-EX board in a chassis as a master clock, and enable components like the sMS-200 and the tX-USB to accept a master clock input. 

She replied that they're considering it, but there are complexities - which I quite believe!

 

For now, we will just have to see what kind of SQ improvement people experience with the Ultra products, and decide if it's worth the premium cost.

 

[mozes]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Agreed, the pricing for these Ultra products is rather high.

 

The same thought occurred to me, and I asked May - why not offer the sCLK-EX board in a chassis as a master clock, and enable components like the sMS-200 and the tX-USB to accept a master clock input. 

She replied that they're considering it, but there are complexities - which I quite believe!

 

For now, we will just have to see what kind of SQ improvement people experience with the Ultra products, and decide if it's worth the premium cost.

 

Yes the price of the tX-USBultra is rather steep, but if it proves to be a worthwhile upgrade to my system, then I will sell my LPS-1, RUR, Curious Regen link and intona Industrial and use the rail on my JS-2 that I currently use to energize the LPS-1. So I don't think I will be paying anything from my pocket at the end. At least this is my wishful thinking

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Ah OK. Duly noted. I used to have a Lightspeed 2g cable around here somewhere. I may have to dig that out of the drawer and try it when the time comes!

Here is the split cable I use here.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DZQEIJE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

TheOTG design is helpful with the microidsd.  Out of the box I perform a couple mods and it's good to go.  It beats the lightspeed 2g hands down.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Here is the split cable I use here.  

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DZQEIJE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

TheOTG design is helpful with the microidsd.  Out of the box I perform a couple mods and it's good to go.  It beats the lightspeed 2g hands down.

 

Let's see what the findings are. I am not sure I buy the premise that a split cable helps, if the power source is simply another USB port on the source component.

 

OTOH - using the power split directly from an LPS - that I can see! 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, moussaobeid said:

Yes the price of the tX-USBultra is rather steep, but if it proves to be a worthwhile upgrade to my system, then I will sell my LPS-1, RUR, Curious Regen link and intona Industrial and use the rail on my JS-2 that I currently use to energize the LPS-1. So I don't think I will be paying anything from my pocket at the end. At least this is my wishful thinking

 

As @romaz said - you may be able to use the LPS-1 to power the tX-USBultra, depending on the current draw. Does you Brooklyn need VBUS at all? If not, then you may well be OK with using the LPS-1. No need to even bring in the JS-2.