A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[hols]

7 minutes ago, rickca said:

Do you know whether the standard Supra cat 8 ethernet cables have a floating shield or not?  I've heard good feedback about these for the price.

Agree that Supra cat 8 is good for its price. To me the sound is proper and accurate. Expensive ethernet cables give you something more than accurate. Vertere is said to be using hair thin wire and giving you some real good high frequencies. Both material and design can give you some different sound. I am not sure but I think Supra does not give floating shield because part of the plug is metal and so cannot isolate the ground.

[Solid-State]

way better than Supra Cat 8

 

https://viablue.de/cn/ep7_cat7_ethernet_cable.shtml

 

https://www.amazon.com/Price-meter-VIABLUE-EP-7S-SILVER/dp/B007I4JDZO

 

https://www.amazon.com/Price-meter-VIABLUE-EP-7-SILVER/dp/B007I47EVE

[rickca]

5 minutes ago, hols said:

I am not sure but I think Supra does not give floating shield because part of the plug is metal and so cannot isolate the ground.

Thanks.  I fell off my chair when I looked up the price of those Vertere Pulse HB ethernet cables. 

[seeteeyou]

Pulse HB seemed to be a bargain when compared to this guy

 

https://www.chord.co.uk/product/chordmusic-streaming-cable/

 

I couldn't afford a pair of Pulse HB interconnects myself so I just ordered two Pulse HB coaxial cables instead. Maybe one day @greenleo and I could visit @hols with my Pulse PB so both of them could go between Blu2 and DAVE.

[afrancois]

7 hours ago, TubeMan said:

way better than Supra Cat 8

 

https://viablue.de/cn/ep7_cat7_ethernet_cable.shtml

 

https://www.amazon.com/Price-meter-VIABLUE-EP-7S-SILVER/dp/B007I4JDZO

 

https://www.amazon.com/Price-meter-VIABLUE-EP-7-SILVER/dp/B007I47EVE

All the ethernet cables in my audio chain are those Viablue + Telegartner RJ45's.

Those cables are very good and an absolute bargain.

 

I also had Supra cat 8 and found that the Viablue's where superior.

 

Make sure that you connect the braided shield of the Viablue to only one of the two Telegartner RJ45's that make-up the cable.

 

[diecaster]

https://www.fidelizer-audio.com/extreme-dual-pc-computer-audio-setup-shootout-between-audiolinux-and-windows-server-2019/

[austinpop]

On 1/6/2019 at 10:47 AM, rickca said:

Since the Qobuz plugin is an LMS thing (not squeezelite), does the Qobuz FLAC come to the LMS instance running on Windows 10 and then get sent to squeezelite on the NUC?  Or is it like UPnP/DLNA, and the Qobuz FLAC goes straight to the renderer?

 

I was traveling, so not sure I saw an answer.

 

Yes, in the LMSsqueezelite case, the Qobuz stream is pulled by the Qobuz plugin running within the LMS instance on the server, then sent to the squeezelite instance on the endpoint using the SlimProto protocol per the Logitech architecture.

[RickyV]

10 hours ago, diecaster said:

https://www.fidelizer-audio.com/extreme-dual-pc-computer-audio-setup-shootout-between-audiolinux-and-windows-server-2019/

 

Ok it's a nice test but who wrote it and it's on the fidelizer website. Would be nice if some more independent people could repeat this test.

[mozes]

33 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 

Ok it's a nice test but who wrote it and it's on the fidelizer website. Would be nice if some more independent people could repeat this test.

Yes this is important to isolate the software improvement from the hardware (NUC).

[Iving]

14 hours ago, diecaster said:

https://www.fidelizer-audio.com/extreme-dual-pc-computer-audio-setup-shootout-between-audiolinux-and-windows-server-2019/

 

@Windows X for comment

[Dutch]

12 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

@Windows X for comment

 

 

[Holzohr]

15 hours ago, diecaster said:

https://www.fidelizer-audio.com/extreme-dual-pc-computer-audio-setup-shootout-between-audiolinux-and-windows-server-2019/

 

Hmm.. according to Rajiv's first post "the focus of this thread is on direct listening impressions".

 

It should be quite easy to Keetakawee (Fidelizer) to collect "direct listening impressions" with Audiolinux and Windows Server 2019 himself instead sharing the opinion of Mr Unknown. Or better he (biased or not) doesn't start such topics and lets his customers decide.

[Solid-State]

all he does is undermining his own credibility,

by writing negative about other software

[MrUnderhill]

Beinf someone who LOVES great solutions at cheaper prices I have been bowled over by the quality and cost of the NUC/AL solution, which i have found I prefer to the SOtM (200 ultra / txUSB / sps500), the ultraRendu and the dCS Netwoek Bridge; although useability may not be quiet as straightforward.

 

To get the best from these solutions an OCD level of attention is needed to such things as grounding AND power. Whilst good solutions are available from specialist manufacturers, at a price, I have preferred to follow in the footsteps of others by using a combination of R-Core LPSUs (Zero Zone) in my case + LT3045s. This was further improved when Rob, currently posting on usaaudiomart experimented with Power Over Ethernet (PoE). The effect of running DC though a CAT7 cable, the right ones, is very good.

 

Rob then extended the idea by altering a PoE switch to allow the running of +ve  and -ve through separate cables, and using ALL the cable pairs. He has fully documented this work for others to repeat ....but also will sell the altered switches to people such as I who are not confident with the soldering skills.

I would describe the difference of adding PoE as primarily threefold:

1. Bass
   The bass becomes easier to follow and adds some weight.
2. Sound staging
   This increases. The different layers become expanded, so that the music is easier to listen into, and the different lines of instrumentation easier to follow; and
3. High Frequencies
   Edge reduces.

I have just received five pairs of Rob's PoE switches plus some of the Monoprice network cables, as the lengths I was able to get in the UK were impractical.

I had one pair of the PoE switches (with Vanderseil cables) between my 6A 8v ZeroZone R-Core LPSU and my SingXer F1, stepped down via two LT3045s. This was being fed from my Celeron NUC + Audiolinux (no HDD), and sounds superb.

Step 1: Add 2nd pair of PoE switches for the F1. These would become pair 1 and would run with Monoprice cables. Ideally Rob would advise using Audioquest cables on pair 2, but I wanted to hear the delta.

Having installed the new pair 1 I have been listening over the last three days.

In my case the move to the NUC + Audiolinux had allowed me to simplify my USB chain twixt NUC and F1 to simply my IFI Mercury 3.0 USB cable, with the power blocked. This did have a slight downside for my problematic tracks, whilst they were still enjoyable that excess edge did increase a tad, however the advantages of the NUC/AL more than made up for this, even on these tracks.

So what was the effect of PoE switches 2 = PoE3.0
The first thing that struck me was the transparency of the upper frequencies, the detail that was being presented.
The bass seemed somewhat constrained.

I left the system to play for 24 hours.

The bass returned, and the high frequency detail remained.

I played through a sequence of the 'problem' tracks. MUCH better. Now returned to the situation with all the USB widgets, plus the added advantages of the NUC/AL with the widgets removed.

Next steps:
Allow the cables and switches to play in for a couple more days.
Then add pair of audioquest cables on switch pair 2.

That will then leave me two complete DC3.0 rigs to install. Potential uses are:
1. The NUC/AL used as my endpoint;
2. The PC/AL used to my LMS server; and/or
3. The USB3.0 hub that hosts my USB keys.

What a pleasant problem!

M

 

 

[Iving]

27 minutes ago, Holzohr said:

 

Hmm.. according to Rajiv's first post "the focus of this thread is on direct listening impressions".

 

It should be quite easy to Keetakawee (Fidelizer) to collect "direct listening impressions" with Audiolinux and Windows Server 2019 himself instead sharing the opinion of Mr Unknown. Or better he (biased or not) doesn't start such topics and lets his customers decide.

 

15 minutes ago, TubeMan said:

all he does is undermining his own credibility,

by writing negative about other software

 

OP also says , " If anyone ... attacks people ..."

1. Anyone interested to venture into NUC/AL will read avidly here, finding Windows comparisons highly relevant.

2. The "shootout" link looks relevant enough to me: much of what ostensibly accounts for SQ here is AL vs. Windows.

Why neg on Keetakawee/Fidelizer (not that I have it) if you are secure enough in your convictions re NUC/AL?

It's just an OT conversation, right?

 

[Holzohr]

16 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

 

OP also says , " If anyone ... attacks people ..."

1. Anyone interested to venture into NUC/AL will read avidly here, finding Windows comparisons highly relevant.

2. The "shootout" link looks relevant enough to me: much of what ostensibly accounts for SQ here is AL vs. Windows.

Why neg on Keetakawee/Fidelizer (not that I have it) if you are secure enough in your convictions re NUC/AL?

It's just an OT conversation, right?

 

 

to 1. I find comparisons much more interesting and valuable the way as Rajiv has described: made by "direct listening impressions". So the link from diecaster was not that useful (imho). At least not to me. Ok, I already knew the neighbor thread where Keetakawee has posted the same. I will give the Windows Server 2019 a try by myself when Phil's next version of AO is ready.

 

to 2. When you quote someone you should set the link to the source. Keetakawee has forgotten about this for some reason and therefore the "opinion" of Mr Unknown is rather valueless.

Btw, I use Fidelizer.. lol (pls have a look at my signature) and have tried Audiolinux headless and ramroot as server and endpoint. The main reason I keep with Windows Server 2016 core is because I already had this rockstable Windows server running with all the software as AO, Fidelizer and especially HQPlayer. Without the HQPlayer I probably would have changed to Audiolinux as server. Or now to GentooPlayer? *scratching my head*

[mourip]

1 hour ago, Holzohr said:

 

Hmm.. according to Rajiv's first post "the focus of this thread is on direct listening impressions".

 

It should be quite easy to Keetakawee (Fidelizer) to collect "direct listening impressions" with Audiolinux and Windows Server 2019 himself instead sharing the opinion of Mr Unknown. Or better he (biased or not) doesn't start such topics and lets his customers decide.

 

In my mind If WindowsX posts reviews of his own software here or compares it positively to other methodologies then to me that is marketing and should be reported to Chris. He has already done that here and also on the Roon Community forum.

 

If someone else points to another site where he has done that then we just have to use our own judgement as to whether he is biased or not.

 

[Iving]

28 minutes ago, Holzohr said:

 

to 1. I find comparisons much more interesting and valuable the way as Rajiv has described: made by "direct listening impressions". So the link from diecaster was not that useful (imho). At least not to me. Ok, I already knew the neighbor thread where Keetakawee has posted the same. I will give the Windows Server 2019 a try by myself when Phil's next version of AO is ready.

 

to 2. When you quote someone you should set the link to the source. Keetakawee has forgotten about this for some reason and therefore the "opinion" of Mr Unknown is rather valueless.

Btw, I use Fidelizer.. lol (pls have a look at my signature) and have tried Audiolinux headless and ramroot as server and endpoint. The main reason I keep with Windows Server 2016 core is because I already had this rockstable Windows server running with all the software as AO, Fidelizer and especially HQPlayer. Without the HQPlayer I probably would have changed to Audiolinux as server. Or now to GentooPlayer? *scratching my head*

 

1. Surely the point of "direct listening" is that first hand experience counts. No armchair philosophy. The shootout looks like a direct listening impression (of AL vs. Windows) to me. I can't evaluate NUC/AL a priori: I have to jump in first. So all "direct listening" accounts are relevant to me - especially if comparison of A. what is discussed here with B. my existing o/s. I haven't seen the "neighbor" thread but you have piqued my interest.

 

2. I do not subscribe to celebrity culture! You can't sell a book these days unless you are already known - even infamously. In other words - it is (or should be) the argument that counts - not who wrote it. I am able to evaluate what is written without knowing who wrote it.

 

Appreciate your first hand remarks on Fidelizer etc. An obstacle to NUC/AL for me is that I use Rednet and AL doesn't support Dante afaik. I'm not ready to revert to USB - I hated it when last I had a relationship with it. But I keep track of things with much interest. Who knows when I might be persuaded.

[Iving]

33 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

In my mind If WindowsX posts reviews of his own software here or compares it positively to other methodologies then to me that is marketing and should be reported to Chris. He has already done that here and also on the Roon Community forum.

 

If someone else points to another site where he has done that then we just have to use our own judgement as to whether he is biased or not.

 

 

Well - it was @diecaster's link! I appreciated it!

(God forbid we should ever encounter "bias" on any audiophile forum!)

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Iving said:

 

Well - it was @diecaster's link! I appreciated it!

(God forbid we should ever encounter "bias" on any audiophile forum!)

 

I remain open to all alternatives. I've been an appreciative user of AO and Process Lasso on W10 myself in the past. I didn't get around to Fidelizer, but heard great things about it. Several respected users here have the Nimitra server too, as I recall.

 

If indeed Windows Server 2019 can compete with Audiolinux, both running headless and booted into RAM, that's great. Anyone who's tried it is welcome to post their listening impressions here.

 

For now, it looks like there is a separate thread that's been open for the topic here: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/54989-extreme-dual-pc-computer-audio-setup-shootout-between-audiolinux-and-windows-server-2019/ so please direct all discussion there instead.

 

Side note - the way this thread works: no one is asking or expecting anyone to try anything. People decide to give things a try based on who is reporting the results, and how much trust that poster has established from past experience.

 

[sandyk]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

Side note - the way this thread works: no one is asking or expecting anyone to try anything. People decide to give things a try based on who is reporting the results, and how much trust that poster has established from past experience.

 

 

 That's the nice thing about this thread, as well as the spirit of cooperation between members.

[Windows X]

Since I was mentioned a few times recently with some controversial. I'd like to clarify again after long absence here.

 

1. I tried to ask in forum before about shootout between popular Windows and Linux platform but no response.

 

 

2. I never post anything related to shoot out in this thread myself. I only shared my observations about possibilities to improve AL in high powered server case. Some also asked me for details but I decided to drop it after it leads to controversial.

 

3. I did talk to a few people who did shoot out since past years before and pick the most informed and elaborated one.

 

Lately I found a few CA members I know talking to me privately that they want to see more honest feedback and I tried to contribute with what I can. You may follow @austinpop suggestion to discuss about shoot out in my thread.

 

I hope everyone will enjoy the music from computer audio better with tips and tricks from this thread. In my shootout, I also value AudioLinux quite highly for $50 product making good results and I don't mind paying $100-300 more for good Linux-based products.

 

I also have working research on Linux optimizations and shared in Android ROM too so I hold no judgement or bias towards different platforms. One day I might prefer Linux over Windows with good optimizations too. I hope AL will be a good start to overcome "Linux is free" because people should be rewarded for their effort and hard work.

 

Personally, I'm just an audiophile who can't find highend server sounding as good as Esoteric transport and decided to try building one for personal use. I could careless about sales figure so some of my posts may be a bad decision business wise but I hope my posts can help fellow computer audiophiles enjoying music better.

 

Regards,

Keetakawee

[User471]

Does anyone using a PC as an endpoint have any experience in using either USB-SFP converters or PCI-E SFP cards?

 

I have fibre from my NAS to a Cisco 2960 switch then copper to my endpoint, but was wondering if bypassing the Cisco would help?

 

Or maybe waiting for one of the upcoming tricked out SFP-RJ45 converters with LPS from Uptone or Sonore?

[Solid-State]

 

 

"Lately I found a few CA members I know talking to me privately that they want to see more honest feedback "

 

so you don't think this threed  have an honest opinion

 

I also value AudioLinux quite highly. !!!

 

[Windows X]

2 hours ago, TubeMan said:

 

 

"Lately I found a few CA members I know talking to me privately that they want to see more honest feedback "

 

so you don't think this threed  have an honest opinion

 

I also value AudioLinux quite highly. !!!

 

 

I didn't read whole thread so I don't know but I'm sure you aren't very honest one toward me. Please stop your abusive behavior.

 

Some people asked me about Esoteric trying to so I'd like to clarify it's Esoteric CD/SACD transport. I owned Esoteric P-03/D-03 combo and owned some other high-end sources too.

 

Regards,

Keetakawee