Jump to content
IGNORED

A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


Message added by The Computer Audiophile

Important and useful information about this thread

Posting guidelines

History and index of useful posts

Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

Recommended Posts

On 12/18/2018 at 3:19 AM, lmitche said:

Rajiv,

 

If someone has a dedicated server today and has the skills to upgrade that server to AL, I agree, that is a good starting point. Indeed with our professional systems engineering skills you and I both did this with our vanilla Windows machines, although I started with the Celeron server first. However at the end of the day, the I7 NUC beats the SQ of my i7-6700k machine.

 

The SQ of a three level architecture with the i7-6700k as a Samba server, i7 NUC as RoonServer, and I7 NUC as endpoint is awesome, but not conclusively better then a two level NUC i7 design. More testing needs to be done here.

 

However if someone has a home office desktop or laptop machine also used to serve music, I'd have no hestitation recommending the best NUC/AL server one can afford as server. Moving from a general purpose machine to a dedicated server has a huge impact on SQ at any performance level.

 

I can't speak to the Mac Mini MMK use case as I have no experience there and wouldn't know if that is an easy or torturous upgrade to AL.

 

Larry

Did you setup a Samba server in order to avoid a plain vanilla NAS?

I have a small dedicated Synology NAS for my music files. It has its own LPS.

 

I have a spare NUC. Perhaps I will try to install AL + Samba on it. I would put a 2.5 inch HD in the NUC (not an SSD)

 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, afrancois said:

Did you setup a Samba server in order to avoid a plain vanilla NAS?

I have a small dedicated Synology NAS for my music files. It has its own LPS.

 

I have a spare NUC. Perhaps I will try to install AL + Samba on it. I would put a 2.5 inch HD in the NUC (not an SSD)

 

Yes, I have the contents of the USB drive enclosure holding the music files exposed to the network via headless AL/Samba. This is on the same machine running Roonserver, but there is no reason it couldn't be on a separate machine.

 

If you run samba in a ramboot configuration ensure your mount point starts with /media to avoid saveram issues.

 

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

Link to comment
15 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Yes, I have the contents of the USB drive enclosure holding the music files exposed to the network via AL/Samba. This is on the same machine running Roonserver, but there is no reason it couldn't be on a separate machine.

 

Is there a benefit compared to simply mounting the USB drive on your server on which runs RoonServer? 

 

Unless, of course, you copy/update your music files to the USB drive using another machine on the network.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, lmitche said:

People claim a benefit to two separate machines, but I can't hear a difference in my testing so far. I suppose a bridge on the server may help in a wired setup.

I've copied some FLAC's to a directory in AL ramroot and couldn't hear a difference between "in memory" play and play from the NAS using RoonServer. I did even shutdown the NAS to be sure the NAS wasn't interfering somehow. Perhaps my system is not resolving enough. I haven't tested with a NUC endpoint yet.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, afrancois said:

I've copied some FLAC's to a directory in AL ramroot and couldn't hear a difference between "in memory" play and play from the NAS using RoonServer. I did even shutdown the NAS to be sure the NAS wasn't interfering somehow. Perhaps my system is not resolving enough. I haven't tested with a NUC endpoint yet.

I did something similar with Optane drives without conclusive results.

 

Honestly, the musicality of my system in it's current state provides little motivation for testing new configurations.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

Link to comment
57 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Honestly, the musicality of my system in it's current state provides little motivation for testing new configurations.

:)

+1

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

Link to comment
14 minutes ago, afrancois said:

The 4.4 firmware of the sMS-200 ultra gave a massive improvement in sound as a Roon endpoint.

The only changes documented by SOtM in 4.4 are

Change ROON Ready maximum Buffer duration value to 1.0sec

Change ROON Ready maximum Resync delay value to 10.0sec

Add ROON Ready DSD x512 rate setting

Change ROON Ready setting value range for more stable configuration

 

It looks like the big change is in 4.5.

Upgrade the kernel to custom version 4.18.19-210
Improve sound quality by upgrading Linux system and custom kernel

 

 

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, rickca said:

Did SOtM provide any details about what changes might account for this?  

This is what I heard on my own system. I must admit that I made some other changes, but I don't believe they can give such a gain.

1° AL from 0.6 to 0.8 (config remained the same)

2° New DC cable for the NUC AL server (simple Canare 4S with JSSG360 treatment)

Link to comment

@afrancois I've updated my post with documented SOtM changes re Roon in 4.4 firmware.

 

I'm confused about your configuration.  Are you running a NUC/AL server and an sMS-200Ultra endpoint?  Have you tried a NUC/AL endpoint for comparison with the sMS-200Ultra?

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, afrancois said:

I've copied some FLAC's to a directory in AL ramroot and couldn't hear a difference between "in memory" play and play from the NAS using RoonServer. I did even shutdown the NAS to be sure the NAS wasn't interfering somehow. Perhaps my system is not resolving enough. I haven't tested with a NUC endpoint yet.

I talked to guy at Exasound (canada) and he thinks the fuss with NAS, NAA may or may not work any better. I try to use a single Music server with all music in the SSD or external drive . If audiolinux claims to be a great OS then it shouldn’t matter much. Perhaps a crappy OS may benefit from separate decoding of music using NAS or NAA. But then I could be wrong, as I have never tried those metthods. Isn’t roon mainly invented for convenience so u can play music anywhere u want, even works well on inferior devices?  

Link to comment
1 hour ago, afrancois said:

There's only one test left for me. A NUC with AL as endpoint versus the sMS-200 ultra.

The 4.4 firmware of the sMS-200 ultra gave a massive improvement in sound as a Roon endpoint.

I'm waiting to install 4.5 because some are experiencing problems with it. 

With what I'm hearing now from the sMS-200 ultra, I'm not sure that the NUC will be clear winner. To be continued...

Interesting.  I updated to 0.4.4 on Saturday, I only had time for a quick listen on Sunday but with first impressions it was sounding very good.  Can it really be improved?  I will have more for some decent listening over the "seasonal holiday", hopefully those first impressions will stick.  I abandoned 0.4.5 as it would not burn to the 8GB SD card that I had, so the next few days will be listening with 0.4.4 whilst I wait for the new micro SD I have ordered to card to arrive.  I will report back if I think definitely improved.  This was from 0.4.17, BTW.

Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, afrancois said:

There's only one test left for me. A NUC with AL as endpoint versus the sMS-200 ultra.

The 4.4 firmware of the sMS-200 ultra gave a massive improvement in sound as a Roon endpoint.

I'm waiting to install 4.5 because some are experiencing problems with it. 

With what I'm hearing now from the sMS-200 ultra, I'm not sure that the NUC will be clear winner. To be continued...

 

Where you find firmwares for sms200ultra and how yo install it?

 

updated: Ive found it, thanks!

Link to comment

Sadly, I no longer have an sMS-200ultra Neo in my possession to compare, but this news does not surprise me one iota. One would hardly expect the streamer vendors to stand by idly and let the NUCs cannibalize their business.

 

If they have indeed been able to up their game to compete, then... (repeat after me)

 

... it's an exciting time to be a computer audiophile! ? 

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, Advieira said:

@rickca @afrancois When Im trying to burn the new image on Sotm Micro USB Card, in OSX even in Windows, dont recognize and ask for format. Do I need format to burn the upated image?

Sorry I've never owned an SOtM sMS-200Ultra, so I don't know the answer.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...