A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[LTG2010]

1 minute ago, rickca said:

I thought I'd seen options for things like LMS/Squeezelite in AL headless 0.5, not just lxqt.  Am I wrong?

The scripts are pre installed to enable the services but you need to install them, there is a guide available.

[hifi25nl]

No, but those applications are pre-installed only on lxqt, otherwise see the guide:

 

OTHER AUDIO APPLICATIONS

* In audiolinux lxqt mpd, logitechmediaserver and  squeezelite are already installed

Squeezelite + LMS installation:
yaourt -S logitechmediaserver-git squeezelite-r2-git
Configuration file for squeezelite: /etc/conf.d/squeezelite
For listing available devices:
squeezelite -l

MPD and UPnP installation:
yaourt -S mpd upmpdcli
Configuration file for MPD: /home/audiolinux/.mpdconf

Please note that these commands will install the application and many dependencies, so audiolinux size will increase and as a consequence boot time in ram mode.

[Johnseye]

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

SQ Differences between Roon player and Squeezelite on Audiolinux

 

Now that I had squeezelite working at last, I was finally able to address the question of SQ differences between the 2 ecosystems - Roon and LMS. Recall that on the shipped OS, InnuOS, the SQ of the LMS/squeezelite combo is consistently better than Roon.

 

Having brought up Audiolinux on this box, running in ramroot, and having found that Roon in this configuration exceeded the SQ of both Roon and LMS/squeezelite on the original OS, the question then became: what about LMS/squeezelite on Audiolinux? Would it in fact again leapfrog Roon?

 

Short answer: Yes. But only if properly tuned.

 

More Detail

 

Let's first talk about memory. This box has 8GB of physical RAM. Despite my efforts to trim the size of the root partition, here is the output of the free command after inital boot:

 

              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available

Mem:        8026548     1846292     5461128         556      719128     6074440

Swap:             0           0           0

 

 

Notice that there are approx 1.8GB in use, with 5+GB free.

 

After Roon is started and running for a few minutes, used memory has grown by ~600MB, which confirms Roon is allocating memory as it goes and as needed.
 

              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available

Mem:        8026548     2242756     4945320         560      838472     5678540

Swap:             0           0           0

 

I first ran squeezelite without setting any value for the -b option. From the help, here's what this option does:

  -b <stream>:<output> Specify internal Stream and Output buffer sizes in Kbytes

 

Next, I tried several values for this parameter on the command line:

1. default, no setting

2. -b 1048576:1048576

3. -b 1572864:1572864

4. -b 2097152:2097152

Here is the output of free in the -b 2097152:2097152 case:

              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available

Mem:        8026548     6067792      993068         564      965688     1853428

Swap:             0           0           0

 

Notice that the memory used has grown by about 4GB, which confirms that the 2 numbers in the -b option are additive. Also note that free memory has dropped to under 1GB (ulp!), but what the heck - let's live dangerously.

 

Comparing squeezelite case 4 (4GB buffers) with Roon, the SQ difference is quite obvious! squeezelite sounds so much better!

1. Yet another jump in dynamics, but also
2. it feels like the noise floor dropped even more
   • bigger and deeper image
   • better instrument separation

I was stunned. But what about stepping back from the precipice (very little free memory), and reducing the buffer size? With each step from 4GB (option 4) to 3GB (option 3) to 2GB (option 2), there were drops in SQ, although they were small. The final step - going from 2GB buffer (option 2) to default buffer - was the biggest drop in SQ.

 

Here's the kicker - running with the default buffer size (i.e. no -b parameter set), the SQ of Roon and squeezelite were indistinguishable. In other words, the SQ benefit from squeezelite comes from setting (and presumably pinning) large buffers.

 

Key Takeaways

1. Those of you who are running squeezelite with LMS on Audiolinux, please give this a try and report what you hear.
2. But... beware of overcommitting memory! With squeezelite running for a while, run "free" and see what your situation is. Then looking at how much free memory you have, set a safe buffer size budget, and try the -b option. If you're running the squeezelite-R2 that Piero recommends, then this will need to be set in the /etc/conf.d/squeezelite file in the params value.
3. Even those of you who are running squeezelite on other Linux variants might want to give this a try.
4. Finally where does this leave us Roon fans? Frustrated! We need to get the Roon architect(s) to see these results and prototype a suitable form of this in their player. Of course, Roon is a more complex player, and they have to consider all the target OSes it can run on. But I think there is some gain to be had with clever coding.
5. We (Roon users) must advocate for this.

 

On a similar note I'd like to share some of my experiences now which I'll summarize another day in another post.

 

Audiolinux GUI based version, LXQT

There are system and package updates that can be run in Audiolinux; pacman and yaourt.  I have found that running these updates at the stock image size causes issues.  There's simply not enough space.  I have to run gpartd to extend the partition on my USB stick, then update.  I haven't verified yet whether the end result is under 8GB and the packages just need a temporary place to be stored until install.

 

ROON CORE on LXQT

My Roon database pushes the size of the OS beyond 8GB.  I have a lot of music.  Fortunately I have 16GB of RAM in my server.  Again, extending the partition on the USB stick before loading into RAM eliminates a lot of headache.

 

These NUCs should be able to handle 16GB.  I know mine can go up to 32GB but I believe (needs validating)  these Celeron versions are stated as 8GB.  I have read that the Celeron versions will work with 16GB without issue.

[ronfint]

5 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

ROON CORE on LXQT

My Roon database pushes the size of the OS beyond 8GB.  I have a lot of music.  Fortunately I have 16GB of RAM in my server.  Again, extending the partition on the USB stick before loading into RAM eliminates a lot of headache.

I had exactly the same problem. Following  Piero's guide, I moved my RoonServer database to a second usb flash drive, and everything then worked smoothly. I am a total linux novice, so Piero's help was invaluable.

 

Right now I am running AudioLinux on a Retina MacBook Pro. I'm waiting for the dust to settle before deciding on a NUC for my Roon Server.

[Johnseye]

2 minutes ago, ronfint said:

I had exactly the same problem. Following  Piero's guide, I moved my RoonServer database to a second usb flash drive, and everything then worked smoothly. I am a total linux novice, so Piero's help was invaluable.

 

Right now I am running AudioLinux on a Retina MacBook Pro. I'm waiting for the dust to settle before deciding on a NUC for my Roon Server.

 

Piero informed me you can extend the partition of the USB stick to its max capacity and the image will still only load the data.  So if your stick is 128GB you can extend to that size.  When you load into RAM it will only create a partition the size of the RAM.  I did not test this.  I kept my partition size under 16GB.

 

I'm assuming you don't have more than 8GB of RAM in your Retina?  Does storing the Roon db on another USB drive slow anything in Roon?  At a minimum you need to keep a UBS stick installed in the MAC/PC/NUC which generates more noise.

[ronfint]

3 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

I'm assuming you don't have more than 8GB of RAM in your Retina?  Does storing the Roon db on another USB drive slow anything in Roon?  At a minimum you need to keep a UBS stick installed in the MAC/PC/NUC which generates more noise.

I have 16GB RAM, but my Roon db itself is between 16 and 17 GB. Concerning the noise issue, I'm not sure. Music sounds good, but I've never had golden ears, nor am I as sensitive to changes in equipment as many are. I'm not sure if that's a blessing or a curse, but it does mean that I'm easily satisfied.

 

 

[mormogi]

This level very important what kind of transformers we are using.

[Cornan]

16 minutes ago, mormogi said:

This level very important what kind of transformers we are using.

 

Just out of curiousity. Which one do you prefer? R-core or toroidal transformer if you  can us them however you want?

[mormogi]

7 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Just out of curiousity. Which one do you prefer? R-core or toroidal transformer if you  can us them however you want?

This time r core. But compared with 200w another  toroidal. This guy 900watt and higher voltages. I need modify and compare again.

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, mormogi said:

This time r core. But compared with 200w another  toroidal. This guy 900watt and higher voltages. I need modify and compare again.

 

A tip from my part is to try balanced toroidal transformers. A game changer (but requires two toroidal transformers).

[mormogi]

1 minute ago, Cornan said:

 

A tip from my part is to try balanced toroidal transformers. A game changers.

So i need throw away this or can make balanced?

[Cornan]

8 minutes ago, mormogi said:

So i need throw away this or can make balanced?

 

You’ll need two transformers with identical specs or if your one is possible to wire in balanced mode. No need to throw one away if you can find another one with the same specs. It all comes down to price and space. Not sure where you are using the transformers?

[mormogi]

9 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

You’ll need two transformers with identical specs or if your one is possible to wire in balanced mode. No need to throw one away if you can find another one with the same specs. It all comes down to price and space. Not sure where you are using the transformers?

This trafo have 2x 40volts separated . Need other one? So expensive....

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 You need a larger value normal type electrolytic capacitor in parallel with the input of the 5V  LT3045 (try 100uF 16V for example) to obtain a more tonally balanced presentation. You have in effect a small increase in  upper HF detail at present. which results in a bigger soundstage, but often results in increased sibilance as you have noticed.

 

For me the culpit is the 500mA LT3045. Using two 1A LT3045 in series instead of one 1A and one 500mA should make quite a difference IME. The more parallel LT3045 the better noise rejection and less harsh /sibiliant SQ.

 

Edit. However, changing the LT3045s around so the 1A LT3045 is facing the last device in the chain should give a better SQ than other way around IME, but 2 pcs 1A will always get better SQ.

[Cornan]

6 minutes ago, mormogi said:

This trafo have 2x 40volts separated . Need other one? So expensive....

 

Then if your output really is 40v you can use that transformer for balanced mode. I can recommend using a IEC EMI input filter as well.

[Marcin_gps]

On 11/20/2018 at 4:22 AM, Narcissus said:

Cool, will Jplay FEMTO work on Audiolinux? I'd be keen to give it a listen, the timing is perfect as I'm trying to ascertain buying a new player SW for Audiolinux.

No, it's a software for Windows 

[mormogi]

3 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Then if your output really is 40v you can use that transformer for balanced mode. I can recommend using a IEC EMI input filter as well.

Emi, choke just crap if you are using power regenerator .

[mormogi]

No choke-not joke

[Cornan]

3 minutes ago, mormogi said:

No choke-not joke

 

Your experience not mine! Power regenerator do not always improve SQ either. Ever tried without (if you have DC blocker trap filter + balanced IT? ) ?

[mormogi]

2 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Your experience not mine! ?

See hong kong web site everybody want sold chokes

[mormogi]

High impedance 

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, mormogi said:

See hong kong web site everybody want sold chokes

 

If everyone wants them it is a sign that they are wanted! ?

[mormogi]

1 minute ago, Cornan said:

 

If everyone wants them it is a sign that they are wanted! ?

Actually I throw away 10 chokes directly into to rabish 

[mormogi]

This one

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, mormogi said:

Actually I throw away 10 chokes directly into to rabish 

 

Bad boy! ? High impedance AC input is not necessarily a bad thing. I am not a believer in impedance negative effects. I believe that both signal and power should be as non-restricted as possible really. Make the signal/power as quick as possible for best results and try to optimize the rest of the system likewise. Isolate anything possible from one another (especially ground/shield/ 0v reference) and make the power as clean as possible. Sounds easy, but it is not! ?