A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[seeteeyou]

13 hours ago, mormogi said:

lps1.2 still not enough good.thats why I said too expensive. 

 

IMHO that would make sense according to @romaz since two pieces of the latest LSIB-HPULN PS in series @ 24V/5A should be a better deal than a single LPS-1.2 @ (relatively wimpy) 12V/1.1A

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=403&tab=comments#comment-890918

On 10/30/2018 at 4:16 AM, romaz said:

As the voltage goes up, current requirement should be less and I could probably get by with a 24V/3A rail but my experience has been that an over-provisioned rail sounds better.  Even if a tX-USBultra never fully draws a full amp at 12V, a 12V power supply with a 5A rating sounds better than a power supply with a 1A rating.  Having discussed this with Paul Hynes, he agrees and so with all of my SR7s, they are over-provisioned.

 

€398 + shipping (coupon is available for first order)

https://www.mpaudio.net/product-page/lsib-hpuln-ps

 

$435 + shipping

https://uptoneaudio.com/products/ultracap-lps-1-2

[rickca]

10 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

This might be a good one  NUC8I7BEH

It's a really nice machine.  Issues will be finding a fanless case and LPS ... remember 28W TDP is just for running at the base clock rate of 2.7GHz.  It will require considerably more juice if turbo is enabled.   I just don't know if anyone has tried AL on such a machine.

 

 

[LTG2010]

4 minutes ago, rickca said:

It will require considerably more juice if turbo is enabled.

Very true, probably need a 8 - 10 amp supply, for extreme mode. Could put it in a 'standard' case with a very big passive heatsink, it's very tempting.

 

[lmitche]

4 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

 

IMHO that would make sense according to @romaz since two pieces of the latest LSIB-HPULN PS in series @ 24V/5A should be a better deal than a single LPS-1.2 @ (relatively wimpy) 12V/1.1A

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=403&tab=comments#comment-890918

 

€398 + shipping (coupon is available for first order)

https://www.mpaudio.net/product-page/lsib-hpuln-ps

 

$435 + shipping

https://uptoneaudio.com/products/ultracap-lps-1-2

You lose galvanic isolation and potentially gain a ground loop with the the Mpaudio solution.

 

With the lps1.2 powering the NUC and with an lps1.2 powering an ISO Regen there can't be a ground loop even with a wired Ethernet connection.

[seeteeyou]

6 minutes ago, lmitche said:

You lose galvanic isolation and potentially gain a ground loop with the the Mpaudio solution.

 

Source?

[seeteeyou]

12 minutes ago, rickca said:

It's a really nice machine.  Issues will be finding a fanless case and LPS ... remember 28W TDP is just for running at the base clock rate of 2.7GHz.  It will require considerably more juice if turbo is enabled.   I just don't know if anyone has tried AL on such a machine.

 

For something that's above 20W TDP, maybe we'll have to dedicate that for Roon Server so even a cooling fan / SMPS should be no biggie?

 

BTW, is CUDA any good if there were only PCIe x4? If so, Bean Canyon came with Thunderbolt 3.0 via PCIe x4 and therefore even adding a relatively cheap GeForce inside an enclosure might help quite a bit with offloading

 

http://www.audio-linux.com

Quote

Compatible audio applications: HQPlayer and HQPlayer embedded (with CUDA acceleration, if you install nvidia closed source drivers),

 

[look&listen]

43 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

IMHO that would make sense according to @romaz since two pieces of the latest LSIB-HPULN PS in series @ 24V/5A should be a better deal than a single LPS-1.2 @ (relatively wimpy) 12V/1.1A

---

€398 + shipping (coupon is available for first order)

https://www.mpaudio.net/product-page/lsib-hpuln-ps

 

Suspect output caps on big MPAudio regulator modules not good for best SQ, but not yet tested without. Hope someone test MPA  module with output caps removed (maybe just 10mfd like app sheet?) to confirm/reject theory, before recommend for experiments for this thread.

[Jigafur]

Help put an end to my choice.

 

I planning use - PC for 8 channels (HQplayer desktop + audiolinux) + usb DAC Exasound e28. (without Roon, i don't like the his dsp sound and library sorting)

 

For each channel i planning use - convolution + time aligment and maybe upsampling (if cpu powerful enough).

 

My question is - What to choose?

 

PC (the same components using in pink faun 2.16 streamer)

- asrock x370 professional (separate power line from linear supply)

- amd ryzen 7 1700x (separate power line from linear supply)

- 16g memory corsair lpx 3000mhz

- ssd samsung 850 evo 120gb for OS audiolinux (separate power line from linear supply)

- ssd samsung 850 evo 250gb for music library (separate power line from linear supply)

- sotm tx usb or matrix x-hi for DAC (separate power line from linear supply)

- fanless pc case

- remote control planning with external router (haven't chosen yet) via wifi and hqplayer app

 

I don't planning to do deep upgrading with oxco clock`s and etc.

 

OR

 

Micro PC - Dell Optiplex 7060 with i7-8700T 

 

- linear power supply for micro PC

- ssd samsung 850 evo 120gb (separate power line from linear supply) or integrated NWME ssd for OS audiolinux

- ssd samsung 850 evo 250gb for music library (separate power line from linear supply)

- maybe sotm tx usb with usb adapter

- fanless case

- remote control planning with external router (haven't chosen yet) via wifi and hqplayer app

 

 

I'm worried about jitter level and level of noise during cpu load comparison between these options.

Well, the main question - the sound quality, which pc is better under given conditions?

 

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Source?

Experience

[Middy]

Looking around the prices have seemed to have gone up as CA members  buy up the world's remaining Celeron PCs.Amazon now £20 more, so much for black friday deals...

[auricgoldfinger]

3 minutes ago, Middy said:

Looking around the prices have seemed to have gone up as CA members  buy up the world's remaining Celeron PCs.Amazon now £20 more, so much for black friday deals...

 

I've noticed Amazon always raises prices for electronics for Black Friday.  Wait another week or two for the real deals.

[Middy]

Cheers. Hopefully an old laptop can work as a pcm server to the NUC, if i do go roon + AL just more money... 

1 year old and wife just back to work..

 

I did dig out all my old filters reclockers

For the NUC to trial iso regen lps1, ifi silencer i purifier  intona.

Remember i just transported of my phone  and got some marginal improvements and  now they make sense on the NUC. Uptone being king with power.

 No experiments..yet.. silencer into intona then into iso. I chained them all but as mentioned many times it can add as well as remove. Bass improvements but mids seem a bit swamped.Slight improvements in highs.

Depending...

I can see people nervous about things being redundant and holding back but old toys can learn new tricks it seems.

 

Need to learn 1 paragraph posts...sorry

 

Even an old laptop can have its heatsink improved...

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fix-overheating-laptop/

Basic good advice here but no lapping advice just de lidding the cpu..scary but works. 

 

Have fun

Dave ?

 

 

 

[RickyV]

3 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

This might be a good one  NUC8I7BEH

quad core 2.7ghz (4.5 turbo), SOC ? might make a monster NUC server in extreme mode with a good heatsink/power supply.

edit yep its SOC

 

There are other gen 8 NUCs i7 with 15w tpd.

 

https://ark.intel.com/compare/130392,130393,126140,130394

 

Are these any good or is the NUC8I7BEH better?

 

Rick ?

[taipan254]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

Experience

 A random and very innocent follow up question... Would the same be true with a JS-2?

[Johnseye]

51 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 

There are other gen 8 NUCs i7 with 15w tpd.

 

https://ark.intel.com/compare/130392,130393,126140,130394

 

Are these any good or is the NUC8I7BEH better?

 

Rick ?

 

3 of those are the same processor.  Lower TDP is better.  The difference between 4.2 and 4.5 GHz is not worth the extra power.  I don't know if there are any impact-full instruction sets the 4.5 has over the 4.2 but I would guess for our purposes, none.

[Dev]

6 hours ago, rickca said:

The Hades Canyon NUCs include a discrete graphics card (AMD Radeon RX Vega M) you don't need.  It just adds to the power requirements.

 

 

Yeah, I know but I am looking for the server end doing Roon/HQP (up-sampling to dsd256) duties and not as a streamer.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

Are these any good or is the NUC8I7BEH better?

The 15W NUCs in that chart use an i7-8650U (Kaby Lake Refresh), which is just a little older than the i7-8559U in the 28W NUC8i7BEH (Coffee Lake).  

 

i7-8650U base/turbo clocks are 1.9/4.2 GHz while i7-8559U base/turbo clocks are 2.7/4.5 GHz.

 

The 28W Bean Canyon NUC8 models are just a little more up to date in things like wifi (wireless AC 9560 vs wireless AC 8265).  But clearly 15W machines are going to be easier to cool and power, but the NUC8i7BEH has faster base clocks.

 

Until somebody actually tries such machines as AudioLinux end points/servers, we can't predict how they will sound based on specs.  

[Dev]

4 hours ago, rickca said:

It's a really nice machine.  Issues will be finding a fanless case and LPS ... remember 28W TDP is just for running at the base clock rate of 2.7GHz.  It will require considerably more juice if turbo is enabled.   I just don't know if anyone has tried AL on such a machine.

 

 

 

I think Akasa hasn't announced 8th gen fanless models yet. I am getting this NUC8 this week for the server duties and see what gives than my 6th gen i7 which I am currently using.

[rickca]

5 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Yeah, I know but I am looking for the server end doing Roon/HQP (up-sampling to dsd256) duties and not as a streamer.

OK I understand.  But even then you don't need a discrete graphics card.  I think the Bean Canyon NUC8 series would be a better choice.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13113/intel-officially-launches-bean-canyon-nucs-with-coffee-lake-u-processors

[Johnseye]

1 minute ago, rickca said:

OK I understand.  But even then you don't need a discrete graphics card.  I think the Bean Canyon NUC8 series would be a better choice.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13113/intel-officially-launches-bean-canyon-nucs-with-coffee-lake-u-processors

 

Why?

[rickca]

10 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Why?

Because the Bean Canyon series don't have a discrete graphics card to drive up the price and TDP.  Hades Canyon NUC8i7HVK is 100W TDP.  Bean Canyon NUC8i7BEH is 28W TDP.  Hope this is clearer.

 

Hades Canyon is Intel's attempt at a gaming NUC. 

[Dev]

1 minute ago, rickca said:

OK I understand.  But even then you don't need a discrete graphics card.  I think the Bean Canyon NUC8 series would be a better choice.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13113/intel-officially-launches-bean-canyon-nucs-with-coffee-lake-u-processors

 

Yes, I agree. Looking at the processor spec, there isn't much difference between the two, so the Bean Canyon NUC8 does make a better choice !

[Johnseye]

23 minutes ago, rickca said:

Because the Bean Canyon series don't have a discrete graphics card to drive up the price and TDP.  Hades Canyon NUC8i7HVK is 100W TDP.  Bean Canyon NUC8i7BEH is 28W TDP.  Hope this is clearer.

 

Hades Canyon is Intel's attempt at a gaming NUC. 

 

Ok, you're comparing NUC 8 only, not 7.  

[rickca]

7 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Ok, you're comparing NUC 8 only, not 7.  

Right.

[LTG2010]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

Are these any good or is the NUC8I7BEH better?

They all have 8mb smart cache which is good I expect they will perform similarly. The 28W can be configured @ 20W if as an endpoint, difficult to say, which one.