A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[auricgoldfinger]

18 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

No, I think it's the other way.  I think the non sCLK PC with dirtier power, while it has more horsepower, inputs noise into the stream.  The tX-USBultra helped clean up the noise, where the sCLK PC with better power didn't benefit from the tX-USBultra and which was actually penalized by it.

 

My take away from this weekend's listening session was that upstream noise still has an impact.  Noticeable enough to where the use or elimination of a tX-USBultra was the result.

 

I understand how power and better clocking affect the server, and we also know better power improves the NUC endpoint.  I was thinking more along the lines of disrupting whatever is creating the NUC magic by introducing non-native components like the sCLK and related cables that could be a source of noise and EMI.  In other words, might simplicity be better in this situation?

[Johnseye]

2 minutes ago, lmitche said:

John,

 

Do you have any network isolation between the server and streamer? How about between the cable modem and server? How about any bridged nics? I would suggest you have to try both machines from the same position on the network to have a valid comparison without isolation.

 

Over here the CA best practices on the server matter as well despite the only copper connection being the AC line buried under two layers of isolation transformers on both sides.

 

Soon I'll be testing an i7 quad core NUC as streamer and server, and am curious to learn about the SQ impact on either side.

 

Also working on building a y-cable to serially power the streaming NUC at 19 volts from two lps1.2s.

 

Larry

 

Right, as I mentioned my higher horse power server is behind 2 routers.  No bridged NICs on either.  It's power source is also not behind an IT.  I'll need to move it for an accurate comparison.  It's a pita to do that, but for the sake of CA best practices I will.  My other reason for coming to a conclusion without doing that was Roys' statement that upstream noise didn't have an impact, that the more horse power the better.  The benefit of my SoTM modified motherboard with cleaner power is that it's got enough horse power to compare with a top end consumer proc.  That's where it gets down to the nitty gritty.

 

Will two lps-1.2's connected with a Y cable work?  No issues by combining two different power sources into one feed?  How many amps does the NUC require...kinda asking that to myself before I go look it up.

[Johnseye]

10 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

I understand how power and better clocking affect the server, and we also know better power improves the NUC endpoint.  I was thinking more along the lines of disrupting whatever is creating the NUC magic by introducing non-native components like the sCLK and related cables that could be a source of noise and EMI.  In other words, might simplicity be better in this situation?

 

By removing the USB cable between the server and tX-USBultra?  I don't think so, otherwise the server would be better without the tX-USBultra when the NUC wasn't in line.  There's filtering occurring at the switch and the NUC isn't adding back the same amount of noise as the Core server.

[auricgoldfinger]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

By removing the USB cable between the server and tX-USBultra?  I don't think so, otherwise the server would be better without the tX-USBultra when the NUC wasn't in line.  There's filtering occurring at the switch and the NUC isn't adding back the same amount of noise as the Core server.

 

I thought you were talking about modifying a NUC endpoint to utilize an sCLK to re-clock the NUC's LAN and USB clocks.  ☺️

[Johnseye]

2 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

I thought you were talking about modifying a NUC endpoint to utilize an sCLK to re-clock the NUC's LAN and USB clocks.  ☺️

 

Oh that's what you were referring to. Well we already know sCLK modified devices have better SQ. Just a guess with the NUC. ElviaCaprice modified his NUC with an sCLK positively. 

[seeteeyou]

35 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Will two lps-1.2's connected with a Y cable work?  No issues by combining two different power sources into one feed?  How many amps does the NUC require...kinda asking that to myself before I go look it up.

 

Two LPS-1.2 in series should be fine for a higher voltage

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38213-announcing-the-next-generation-ultracap-lps-12-now-57912v-now-with-parallel-lt3045-regulators/?tab=comments#comment-766272

On 1/15/2018 at 9:24 AM, Superdad said:

[The wider range of output voltage settings brings interesting possibilities for a range of higher voltages by connecting two LPS-1.2 units in series (+/-/+/-). You can see how two units set to the same or different voltages can now combine to result in 10V, 14V, 16V, 17V, 18V, 19V, or 24V!]

 

Though two of them in parallel (i.e. for a higher current) would require something rather special that ain't offered anymore

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38213-announcing-the-next-generation-ultracap-lps-12-now-57912v-now-with-parallel-lt3045-regulators/?tab=comments#comment-766675

On 1/16/2018 at 7:59 AM, Superdad said:

The folks who are paralleling separate LT-3045 boards for more current need to be very careful--with matching to within a few milliVolts--or they will end up with one board bearing much more of the load.  I've hand-paired a few LPS-1 boards in the past to allow for parallel connection and higher current, but that is not a service we offer.  

Of course series connection of units for higher voltage can always be done by anyone. 

 

---

 

18 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Oh that's what you were referring to. Well we already know sCLK modified devices have better SQ. Just a guess with the NUC. ElviaCaprice modified his NUC with an sCLK positively. 

 

That's NU93S (with Bay Trail) from Jetway instead of Intel (with Gemini Lake / Kaby Lake R)

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=151&tab=comments#comment-724418

 

IMHO it's somewhat difficult to compare something from 2014 versus others from 2017.

[Johnseye]

23 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Two LPS-1.2 in series should be fine for a higher voltage

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38213-announcing-the-next-generation-ultracap-lps-12-now-57912v-now-with-parallel-lt3045-regulators/?tab=comments#comment-766272

 

Though two of them in parallel (i.e. for a higher current) would require something rather special that ain't offered anymore

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38213-announcing-the-next-generation-ultracap-lps-12-now-57912v-now-with-parallel-lt3045-regulators/?tab=comments#comment-766675

 

---

 

 

That's NU93S (with Bay Trail) from Jetway instead of Intel (with Gemini Lake / Kaby Lake R)

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=151&tab=comments#comment-724418

 

IMHO it's somewhat difficult to compare something from 2014 versus others from 2017.

 

Thanks for the clarification on parallel LPS-1's.

 

You're right in that the NUC's are of a different breeds and hard to compare. However I doubt the new NUC's clocks are better than the sclk-ex. In fact I haven't read about a situation where the sclk-ex didn't improve the device in which it was applied. 

[ElviaCaprice]

24 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Thanks for the clarification on parallel LPS-1's.

 

 

 

It will work in serial, not parallel.  I originally powered my sCLK EX NUC with two LPS 1's in serial.  Replaced by SR7 which is far better.  Problem with serial is increased impedance.

[Johnseye]

14 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

It will work in serial, not parallel.  I originally powered my sCLK EX NUC with two LPS 1's in serial.  Replaced by SR7 which is far better.  Problem with serial is increased impedance.

 

The Y cable would be parallel right? 

 

[elan120]

13 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

The Y cable would be parallel right? 

 

Is "serial Y cable" a good name?

 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

Will two lps-1.2's connected with a Y cable work?  No issues by combining two different power sources into one feed?  How many amps does the NUC require...kinda asking that to myself before I go look it up.

 

Both @lmitche and I are happily powering his AL-NUCs with a single UltraCap LPS-1.2 set to 12V. 

Nothing in these NUCs actually runs from even 12V—it all gets stepped down, by multiple DC-DC switching regulators, to 3.3V, 1.8V, 1.1V, etc.  No advantage to running from 19V.

 

[Hope this time I have phrased these facts in such a way that avoids @seeteeyou from shouting “shameless promotion.”  Larry made a nice report in this very thread a couple of weeks ago, but it quickly got buried by one of Roy’s long posts and responses to same. Clearly it got overlooked.]

[asdf1000]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Both @lmitche and I are happily powering his AL-NUCs with a single UltraCap LPS-1.2 set to 12V. 

 

Hi Alex. What are your impressions, compared with your microRendu (powered by the same PSU)?

[elan120]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Both @lmitche and I are happily powering his AL-NUCs with a single UltraCap LPS-1.2 set to 12V. 

Nothing in these NUCs actually runs from even 12V—it all gets stepped down, by multiple DC-DC switching regulators, to 3.3V, 1.8V, 1.1V, etc.  No advantage to running from 19V.

 

[Hope this time I have phrased these facts in such a way that avoids @seeteeyou from shouting “shameless promotion.”  Larry made a nice report in this very thread a couple of weeks ago, but it quickly got buried by one of Roy’s long posts and responses to same. Clearly it got overlooked.]

I plan on trying  both LPS-1.2 and JS-2 set at 12VDC and see if there are differences...hopefully next week.

[Dev]

7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Both @lmitche and I are happily powering his AL-NUCs with a single UltraCap LPS-1.2 set to 12V. 

Nothing in these NUCs actually runs from even 12V—it all gets stepped down, by multiple DC-DC switching regulators, to 3.3V, 1.8V, 1.1V, etc.  No advantage to running from 19V.

 

 

The Celeron NUC should be fine but not sure about i7 NUC. Its about 28watts (configurable down to 20watts). Moreover, earlier reports suggest that a beefier power supply on these NUCs sound better, eg. PH SR4 to SR7.

[Superdad]

9 minutes ago, elan120 said:

I plan on trying  both LPS-1.2 and JS-2 set at 12VDC and see if there are differences...hopefully next week.

 

I’ve been going back and forth between LPS-1.2 and JS-2 for a couple of days. Both sound great. Will be very interested in your take between the two.  

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Will two lps-1.2's connected with a Y cable work?  No issues by combining two different power sources into one feed?  How many amps does the NUC require...kinda asking that to myself before I go look it up.

Yes any DC power supply can be connected serially to raise the total voltage into the load. That's how the four batteries in a flashlight power 6 volt bulbs = 1.5 volts x 4.

 

My Celeron NUC will run for days from a 12 volt lps1.2 with it's  1.1 max amps as long as a fancy power eating keyboard isn't plugged in along with a monitor or high current USB device.

 

I am not sure the i7 Nuc will run on an lps1.2. I doubt it. Maybe with two at 24 volts.

[Superdad]

11 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

The Celeron NUC should be fine but not sure about i7 NUC. Its about 28watts (configurable down to 20watts). Moreover, earlier reports suggest that a beefier power supply on these NUCs sound better, eg. PH SR4 to SR7.

 

Of course. And the very available JS-2 can produce 7.2A at 12V, so many users have been using it for their i7 NUCs these past few years.  With wattage to spare for some other device on second output.

[lmitche]

4 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Of course. And the very available JS-2 can produce 7.2A at 12V, so many users have been using it for their i7 NUCs these past few years.  With wattage to spare for some other device on second output.

Cool, how about a 19 volt JS-2?

[Dev]

Just now, lmitche said:

Cool, how about a 19 volt JS-2? 

 

Larry, why do you need 19v for the NUC ? Is there a benefit ? Its just wasting energy to heat ?

[lmitche]

4 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

Larry, why do you need 19v for the NUC ? Is there a benefit ? Its just wasting energy to heat ?

Roy observed that the NUC sounds better at 19 volts. I aim to hear the benefit of the additional 7 volts.

[mormogi]

9 hours ago, Johnseye said:

Audiolinux in RAM on the NUC blows up the soundstage, surrounding you, makes the music fat, instruments more spatial and more defined.

Very very good powered ssd do the same or similar effect . 3 hpuln series +perfect AC. (not sps500 or lps1.2!!!)

its too expensive I know!!!

[Johnseye]

23 minutes ago, mormogi said:

Very very good powered ssd do the same or similar effect . 3 hpuln series +perfect AC. (not sps500 or lps1.2!!!)

its too expensive I know!!!

 

I was powering my SSD with an LPS-1.  Loading in RAM means no need for an SSD.  This is totally different.

[mormogi]

6 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

I was powering my SSD with an LPS-1.  Loading in RAM means no need for an SSD.  This is totally different.

lps1.2 still not enough good.thats why I said too expensive. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Roy observed that the NUC sounds better at 19 volts. I aim to hear the benefit of the additional 7 volts.

 

I recall you saying that you though Roy was not able to do an apples-to-apples comparison of 12V versus 19V because his SR7 was only 19V and the 12V supply he compared to was either a different Hynes model or some other supply.

 

In any case, we look forward to hearing about the results of your experiment with a serial pair of UltraCap LPS-1.2 units, though I guess it will take some work to make a serial-wired 'Y' from the terrific Gotham wire you (and I now, thanks) use.  

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Cool, how about a 19 volt JS-2?

 

As mentioned on the phone, this is trivial to do and I have voltage set resistors arriving to do max. current tests at both 15V and 19V.  

The JS-2 won't be able to offer 7+ amps at 19V (as it does for 12V), but I'm hoping it will make it to 4.5A easily. Could simply substitute the set resistor on one of the four settings (presently 5/7/9/12V) on one of the output jacks.  19V/4.5A is still 86W.  Plenty for this class of NUCs.

Still, I am not yet convinced of any benefit to 19V.  We have loads of happy NUC and Roon Nucleus users at 12V.