A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[lmitche]

5 minutes ago, greenleo said:

I find lots of members wondering which is better, GUI or headless AL.  I hope that the following summary may help the invoice Linux users.  If Rajiv consider this summary hits the nail, may be he can put it in the 1st page as well.

 

The keypoints are can and would:

1. Can goes for the feasibility. 

For a single box solution with local storage, a headless cannot be the solution because you can't play the music files easily.  Also, I'm told that some sw just cannot work through the dual PC setup.  Single box GUI is the only option.

 

2. Would goes for the best SQ.

The GUI still enables dual PC set up.  NAA can be used.  Hence in terms of operations, little difference on the side of the control PC.

 

However, the very reason of using headless, at least to me, is the NUC can be truly barebone with no local HDD and only RAM.  In this case, the electrical noise may be minimized.  For the best SQ, headless boot in RAM is the only option.

 

Now the v0.5 headless has come out and the only command one needs to remember is alconf (please read my guide with images attached).  I see little reasons that headless is still a barrier.

 

3. The only drawback of the headless is network trouble shooting.  It drove me nuts and I still haven't sorted out everything yet.  But if your network is the ordinary one, namely both the control PC and the audio PC are connected into the same router using LAN cables (and only one subnet), it should be easy to set up the headless(please read my 1st guide on the headless AL for the network schematic diagram).  My network topology is much more complicated and I will not mention the details here.  However, the GUI AL in network trouble shooting can be a great help.

 

Hope this helps.

Greenleo, I setup a single box Roonserver NUC for a friend using headless boot from an 256gb sdcard including music storage. It is not the best from a SQ standpoint but he is thrilled with the user interface and ease of ripping CDs from his windows laptop to the server. He is 75 years old and has been an audiophile for 50 years and loves what I built for him. This is the first time he has owned and used a computer. He is on a tight budget.

 

SQ is roughly equivalent to his CD based rig.

 

His next move is a second NUC with an lps to run Roonbridge and to raise his SQ.

[greenleo]

4 minutes ago, Middy said:

Does AL have an in built player? Sorry to ask. Nuc and case wiped my music $$$ fun funds... 

HQPlayer trial free and stops in every 0.5 hr.

[lmitche]

10 minutes ago, Middy said:

Does AL have an in built player? Sorry to ask. Nuc and case wiped my music $$$ fun funds... 

I haven't looked recently, but minimserver and a upnp/dnla renderer used to be included.

[greenleo]

5 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Greenleo, I setup a single box Roonserver NUC for a friend using headless boot from an 256gb sdcard including music storage. It is not the best from a SQ standpoint but he is thrilled with the user interface and ease of ripping CDs from his windows laptop to the server. He is 75 years old and has been an audiophile for 50 years and loves what I built for him. This is the first time he has owned and used a computer. He is on a tight budget.

 

SQ is roughly equivalent to his CD based rig.

 

His next move is a second NUC with an lps to run Roonbridge and to raise his SQ.

Hi Larry,

 

Thank you for your post and certainly pointed out my shortcomings.

 

My summary is for the novice (see my bold text but I can't correct it now), not somebody like you ?

I guess my post in general holds.

 

Regards

 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

That its a 19V DC power input, even better... looks like I need to buy a NUC since my existing PC doesn't have UEFI which is needed for AL to boot. @lmitche  what NUC config

are you liking for AL and Roon server with  DSP use?

 

BTW, @lmitche very recently made a pretty detailed report about powering his NUC with the UltraCap LPS-1.2 at 12V:

 

Of course folks have been running NUCs--and Roon Nucleus, etc.--at 12V for a long time, with JS-2s or whatever else, but AFAIK Larry is the first to have powered a NUC from our little 1.1A toy.  

 

Anyway, my reason for posting was just to point out that 19V is far from a necessity for NUCs.  Despite what the back panel has etched, Intel's full spec documentation for virtually all NUC models of the past three years shows input range of 12-19V (and even a few 12-24V). It all gets dropped WAY down with DC-DC switching regulators on the logic boards anyway.

 

[lmitche]

2 minutes ago, greenleo said:

Hi Larry,

 

Thank you for your post and certainly pointed out my shortcomings.

 

My summary is for the novice (see my bold text but I can't correct it now), not somebody like you ?

I guess my post in general holds.

 

Regards

 

Hi Greenleo,

 

No worries. I just wanted to be clear that headless can support many different configurations.

 

Larry

[the_doc735]

48 minutes ago, Middy said:

I did post this, most won't use thier NIC card. I ordered an extender to move it away from the board. WIFI for me..

 

(I am not 100% if this works but there are extenders with pci sockets. )

See aliexpress examples here.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cK4ENHSt

I wanted to move NIC and shield it. To see if it helps....

 

Note they seem to have power pins for independant supply? Or flying leads pins for testing. Not sure?

I was mainly referring to the use of SOtM tX-USBexp & sCLK-EX & mutec REF 10?

Cheers!

[the_doc735]

ANYBODY!

 

Can AL be used with ultrarendu 1.4?

Can I try AL on a NUC without other additions?

In this thread members have talked about various SOtM PCIe riser cards and 'clocks', but I didn't think a NUC had any PCIe slots or rear panel clock sockets, so how can they be used (with a NUC)? e.g. referring to the use of SOtM tX-USBexp & sCLK-EX & mutec REF 10? 

Cheers!

[One and a half]

Is my perception correct in that the 2 PC approach is dwindling, to a single headless PC with Audio Linux on a USB stick, running Roon server?

 

So the 2nd NUC is out, replaced with a single NUC?

[Johnseye]

1 minute ago, One and a half said:

Is my perception correct in that the 2 PC approach is dwindling, to a single headless PC with Audio Linux on a USB stick, running Roon server?

 

So the 2nd NUC is out, replaced with a single NUC?

 

That is incorrect. The NUC acts as the endpoint NAA. 

[One and a half]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

That is incorrect. The NUC acts as the endpoint NAA. 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[greenleo]

19 minutes ago, the_doc735 said:

ANYBODY!

 

Can AL be used with ultrarendu 1.4?

Can I try AL on a NUC without other additions?

In this thread members have talked about various SOtM PCIe riser cards and 'clocks', but I didn't think a NUC had any PCIe slots or rear panel clock sockets, so how can they be used (with a NUC)? e.g. referring to the use of SOtM tX-USBexp & sCLK-EX & mutec REF 10? 

Cheers!

1. Yes.  But the SQ improvement may be little according to the reports here.

2. Yes, if"without other adddition" means only RAM but no local storage is allowed.  

 

Don't worry about the rest of the mods and enjoy now.

[greenleo]

25 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Is my perception correct in that the 2 PC approach is dwindling, to a single headless PC with Audio Linux on a USB stick, running Roon server?

 

So the 2nd NUC is out, replaced with a single NUC?

Even for the SQ matters approach, it is not easy to determine which is better.  Some members find the two PC setup sounds best while there are other members using expensive ($7000) and ultra expennsive (>$15000) single box server find it sounds better.

 

CAS is a system so that each part matters (sadly).  Without considering the cost of the system sometimes renders the opinions/debates not pragmatic because that's far from apple to apple.

 

Finally, it's worh mentioning that AL provides a customized version for one ultra expensive server that a member shared here and the member regarded the server highly.  This version of AL cannot be bought by end users.  You may check the official website.  

 

 

[seeteeyou]

FYI - Piero released specific AL versions for SBC with ARM processors and therefore stuff like BeagleBone Black or Raspberry Pi 3 might require their own customized images.

 

Both microRendu and ultraRendu seemed to come with ARM processors, so far I didn't see anything from Piero yet but that might change in the future.

 

Besides, all of the above came with less than 4GB of RAM since it might be the bare minimum for ramboot, I asked Piero about the feasibility of shrinking the AL image for something with only 1GB of RAM but that should be no go

 

https://www.nexthardware.com/forum/pc-top-software/85668-audiolinux-un-nuovo-sistema-operativo-per-hqplayer-ma-non-solo-38.html#post990755

[the_doc735]

38 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Is my perception correct in that the 2 PC approach is dwindling, to a single headless PC with Audio Linux on a USB stick, running Roon server?

 

So the 2nd NUC is out, replaced with a single NUC?

No!

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Hi Greenleo,

 

No worries. I just wanted to be clear that headless can support many different configurations.

 

Larry

Hi Larry,

 

I've the HQP Desktop license only but not the RoonServer.  What do you find between them SQ wise.  The Room license is pretty expensive and I'm still on the fence.

 

Leo

[beerandmusic]

12 hours ago, greenleo said:

My last guide on the AudioLinux headless

* AL headless v0.5 has come out.  ONLY command alconf.  NO reason not to use it for Dual PC *

 

Steps:

A.  Preparation of the USB disk

- Please follow my guide in the other post which shows how to burn the USB disk

 

B. Run the USB disk on the Audio PC, the headless

1. Use UEFI (through the BIOS of your computer) to boot the USB disk

2. Press [Enter] when a menu come out

3. Wait till the prompt comes

4. Type alconf

5. Choose from the menu.  Done.

Enjoy

 

 

As an example:

Choose 7 in the headless.  Then use HQPlayer in the control PC to play music.

 

PS.  This guide just shows the basic operation of the AL headless and not the detail operations of each sw like HQPlayer, JRiver, ..., etc.

 

Is there a trial version so we can see if we like it before buying?  If not, may make sense to make a trial version that is limited in some way.

[greenleo]

28 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

FYI - Piero released specific AL versions for SBC with ARM processors and therefore stuff like BeagleBone Black or Raspberry Pi 3 might require their own customized images.

 

Both microRendu and ultraRendu seemed to come with ARM processors, so far I didn't see anything from Piero yet but that might change in the future.

 

Besides, all of the above came with less than 4GB of RAM since it might be the bare minimum for ramboot, I asked Piero about the feasibility of shrinking the AL image for something with only 1GB of RAM but that should be no go

 

https://www.nexthardware.com/forum/pc-top-software/85668-audiolinux-un-nuovo-sistema-operativo-per-hqplayer-ma-non-solo-38.html#post990755

I rather the GUI AL can be shrinked into less than 4GB so that one 4GB box fits both the headless and the GUI.

[greenleo]

7 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

Is there a trial version so we can see if we like it before buying?  If not, may make sense to make a trial version that is limited in some way.

Don't think so. 

 

Anyway $29 is nothing in this hobby and I guess the sharing of our findings, the time spent to writing the comparisons and guidelines cost us much muchh more than $29.  YMMV.

 

Disclaimer: I have no skin in the game and paid full price.  The only part that I might have any influence was that I did asked Piero if it's possible to change the standard mode to extreme mode in headlezs on the fly and vice versa.  Two days later, v0.5 came, something much better than what I dreamed of.

[beerandmusic]

is there a web based player (not roon) that will work with Audio-Linux?

e.g. if i have a pc that boots off AL usb drive, will i be able to configure AL to point to an external SSD drive (formatted ntfs, e.g. g:\music), and then control the playing of the music through a web browser?  I don't want to control from smartphone.

[greenleo]

Just now, beerandmusic said:

is there a web based player (not roon) that will work with Audio-Linux?

e.g. if i have a pc that boots off AL usb drive, will i be able to configure AL to point to an external SSD drive (formatted ntfs, e.g. g:\music), and then control the playing of the music through a web browser?  I don't want to control from smartphone.

Some members mentioned that HQP embedded is web based.  I never use it.  You may try.

[beerandmusic]

2 minutes ago, greenleo said:

Don't think so. 

 

Anyway $29 is nothing in this hobby and I guess the sharing of our findings, the time spent to writing the comparisons and guidelines cost us much muchh more than $29.  YMMV.

 

Disclaimer: I have no skin in the game and paid full price.  The only part that I might have any influence was that I did asked Piero if it's possible to change the standard mode to extreme mode in headlezs on the fly and vice versa.  Two days later, v0.5 came, something much better than what I dreamed of.

 

just out of curiosity, what do you use to control it?  do you know if a web player is out there that will work with it?  I don't want to mess with smartphone, and personally am used to using jriver....I know i could still use jriver or hqplayer/naa, but just curious if there is a web player out there ?

[greenleo]

1 minute ago, beerandmusic said:

 

just out of curiosity, what do you use to control it?  do you know if a web player is out there that will work with it?  I don't want to mess with smartphone, and personally am used to using jriver....I know i could still use jriver or hqplayer/naa, but just curious if there is a web player out there ?

$29 is the GUI version and HQP for Windows trial is provided.  (Please read my pictorial guides).  GUI is also good for NAA, a 2 box solution.

 

For the web players, please read the previous posts.  I don't understand why web players are important when using NAA, anyway.

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, greenleo said:

Anyway $29 is nothing in this hobby and I guess the sharing of our findings, the time spent to writing the comparisons and guidelines cost us much muchh more than $29.  YMMV.

 

In terms of HQP NAA, Jussi's own NAA image is free. Is this AL solution better sounding to your ears?

 

Similarly, one can load Roon's Roon OS (ROCK) on a NUC and use it as a RoonBridge, for free. This is an OS designed and built from scratch by the Roon Team (not based on an existing Linux distro).

 

Wondering if people have compared these with this AL NUC solution.

 

[Johnseye]

14 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

In terms of HQP NAA, Jussi's own NAA image is free. Is this AL solution better sounding to your ears?

 

Similarly, one can load Roon's Roon OS (ROCK) on a NUC and use it as a RoonBridge, for free. This is an OS designed and built from scratch by the Roon Team (not based on an existing Linux distro).

 

Wondering if people have compared these with this AL NUC solution.

 

 

The HQPlayer NAA needs to be installed on an OS unless you're referring to Embedded which is not free. 

 

ROCK can not be loaded into RAM, nor can you install HQPlayer on it. I will likely try Roon Bridge as an endpoint on Audiolinux. Roy did this and liked it enough to call it endgame.