A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

If Linux is so easy, why can't the Audio Linux install as a script file with very few prompts?

 

Install to USB/HDD (press U or H) :

Password:

Please wait formatting and installing.....

 

Seems to me, the same path as weird Linux distributions are concerned, one typo and there's a grinding halt. At least if a Ubuntu is installed, it's a very smooth process, so why does Audio Linux have to resort to user intervention and setups and pages of instructions? This is a rather poor effort. I'd rather pay a few more EUR and end up with something that's simpler and less prone to type errors. Then again there's enough audiophile type Linux OSs out there some are free, so maybe the better option.

 

https://www.ap-linux.com/

 

 

In any case, having a PC close to the audio system is problematic, even if there is a linear psu in the mix, I avoid the server PC or anything that remotely resembles a computer well away. There's always going to be coupling to 0V somewhere. By adding a NUC, the change in noise spectra is most likely changing than the chain approach and it will sound different. It is not possible to add a noisy component and claim the sound is better. Electrically, consider adding a PC to the path is adding another noise source voltage to an existing signal. To reduce the noise, any device would need to be a frequency low impedance point to absorb the noise. This is also problematic since now there are two paths that noise needs to travel back to the source. 

 

These devices aren't perfect, the leakage is still a problem that can be avoided. Anyway, this advice most likely will fall on deaf ears, continue with NUC research.

 

 

 

I think the comments on AL is not entirely fair.

 

1. I find Linux difficult, I'm a Winbdows guy, but installing and operating AL not difficult.

 

2. It's the style in CA that instructions were mostly in words and pretty brief.  Walkthroughs are rarely provided.  I believe most of the members here are computer gurus (not me).  Hence the situation.  Even though my guides are so simple and easy, later there are members often pointing other members to guides with text only, or more longwinded (but better utilization of the USB disk) and correct approach.  This actually provides barries to new users to try the AL.

 

Hence I asked Rajiv if my guides may be put in the 1st post.

 

3. I had provided walkthrough in wireless bridge in this thread long time ago with lots of screen captures.  (You may search).  To provide such pictorial guides helps the other members, somebody not that capable in computers, a lot.  That's why I keep on doing it, if I have time.  This is such a great thread and to be able to help other members as a feedback is great as well.

 

I have provided six guides in using AL.  Follow them and then using of AL is actually very easy.

 

4. Piero's site provides lots of more advanced feature for the advanced users, as the site should be.

 

Why don't you try to follow my guides and then comment if my points are valid?

 

Regards.

[sig8]

In my opinion it is no more difficult than Audiophile Optimizer, the only difference is that AO came with a well written guide.

[greenleo]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

 

I think the author, Piero, of AL didn't expect a storm brewing over at CA ? Being an expert unix user, I have already given the feedback on the very first day that most novice will find it ugly. I am sure he is working on it to make the user experience most friendly. Until that happens, its just a bunch of commands you have to fire. You don't have to understand (if you do, that's even better but not necessity) and if you make a mistake, well, just start over....

Not true in v0.5 headless.  The only important command is alconf.  Please try and AL is evolving.

[MrUnderhill]

My thanks to Roy, Larry and Rajiv in particular.

 

i think that language can be a barrier to communication at times. I think the NUC + AM is a superb solution, but certainly not plug and play.

 

In the world of operating systems a good analogy I once read compared Microsoft to Mercedes and Linux to a well loved MG; the second was a lot more fun but took a fair amount of maintenance. Not quite on the button but with an element of truth.

 

i am loving what this has done for my system, and being bootable from usb means it is simple to back out from.

 

M

[sig8]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

What makes you think they are much noisier devices?  Not saying you're right or wrong, I'd just like to know your background info on this statement.

John: No other explanation besides the conventional thinking here, that lighter NAA is better to keep the electrical noise down. I don’t know anything more that that. Will only know with more experimentation I guess.

[Johnseye]

32 minutes ago, lmitche said:

First off, there is no need to run the Audiolinux GUI version on the server or streamer. The headless version delivers the same audio playback capabilities and sounds better.

 

Also, with proper integration, a dedicated server with Optane boot can have one button operation, and with no need for a keyboard or monitor, it only needs two wires, power and network. If one has music on a Nas, with Roon or Hqplayer, there is never a need to interact with the OS at all. Add a USB disk, and third wire, the same is true.

 

That sounds like tv dinner territory to me.

 

It depends on what you want to use it for. I believe I need the gui to run HQPlayer Desktop. Can I launch and interactively use HQPlayer Desktop from the headless version? 

[RickyV]

The appealing think about a NUC is it’s simplicity, one NUC plus one powersupply. 

[lmitche]

12 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

It depends on what you want to use it for. I believe I need the gui to run HQPlayer Desktop. Can I launch and interactively use HQPlayer Desktop from the headless version? 

Your are right. Everything I do here has roon as a front end so I don't know, if hqplayer needs x. I'll check it out tomorrow and report unless someone else reports first.

[Dev]

17 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

It depends on what you want to use it for. I believe I need the gui to run HQPlayer Desktop. Can I launch and interactively use HQPlayer Desktop from the headless version? 

 

No you can't. The headless only comes with the embedded version, which is web interface based and the license is more expensive than the desktop version.

[Dev]

45 minutes ago, greenleo said:

Not true in v0.5 headless.  The only important command is alconf.  Please try and AL is evolving.

 

Yes, I agree that AL is evolving from all the feedback from the users. I have to try it out the newer version (I don't remember what version I am running currently) but I am not looking for easier commands or configurations either.

[rickca]

Wow, it's time consuming (but so worth it) to keep up with all this.  Thanks so much to @lmitche, @austinpop, @Johnseye, @greenleo and others for reporting your results.  

 

Is working with the GUI version of AL really more difficult than headless?  I would have thought the opposite.  I haven't started yet ... should I try the headless version first?  

 

Another question.  I have a dual boot Windows 10 system on which I'd like to try just booting AL from a USB thumb drive.  Piero says on his website that using AL on a dual boot system requires more support and he charges a little extra.  Is the added complexity of a dual boot system only a factor if you want to copy AL onto a hard drive/SSD?  Would having a dual boot system prevent me from just booting AL from a USB thumb drive?

[davide256]

33 minutes ago, RickyV said:

The appealing think about a NUC is it’s simplicity, one NUC plus one powersupply. 

That its a 19V DC power input, even better... looks like I need to buy a NUC since my existing PC doesn't have UEFI which is needed for AL to boot. @lmitche  what NUC config

are you liking for AL and Roon server with  DSP use?

[greenleo]

43 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

It depends on what you want to use it for. I believe I need the gui to run HQPlayer Desktop. Can I launch and interactively use HQPlayer Desktop from the headless version? 

HQPlayer embedded.

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, sig8 said:

In my opinion it is no more difficult than Audiophile Optimizer, the only difference is that AO came with a well written guide.

Hi Sig8,

 

I have been using AO 2.2 with WS2016 core for years and AL is just much much easier.

[the_doc735]

1 hour ago, sig8 said:

I have been using AL for few months the improvement in SQ is big so well worth it. I have tried it on three systems and all sounded lot better than Windows based system. so in my opinion the magic is in AL, not NUC,  I think people should try AL on their current systems and see if they get any jump in SQ, I am pretty sure they will.

Can AL be used with ultrarendu 1.4?

Can I try AL on a NUC without other additions?

In this thread members have talked about various SOtM PCIe riser cards and 'clocks', but I didn't think a NUC had any PCIe slots or rear panel clock sockets, so how can they be used (with a NUC)?

Cheers!

[sig8]

25 minutes ago, rickca said:

Wow, it's time consuming (but so worth it) to keep up with all this.  Thanks so much to @lmitche, @austinpop, @Johnseye, @greenleo and others for reporting your results.  

 

Is working with the GUI version of AL really more difficult than headless?  I would have thought the opposite.  I haven't started yet ... should I try the headless version first?  

 

Another question.  I have a dual boot Windows 10 system on which I'd like to try just booting AL from a USB thumb drive.  Piero says on his website that using AL on a dual boot system requires more support and he charges a little extra.  Is the added complexity of a dual boot system only a factor if you want to copy AL onto a hard drive/SSD?  Would having a dual boot system prevent me from just booting AL from a USB thumb drive?

I think GUI is easier. You can keep your existing boot system. Create AL USB stick, at system boot F2 and choose AL USB UEFI as boot option 1. That is all. No need to change or remove your existing boot drive if you don’t want to. I still have my Win 10 on 4 tb external USB, which also holds music. If AL USB is not connected it boots on Windows. I think lot of people are overthinking (like I did in the beginning so I understand). Good part is that it’s cheap and totally reversible, but I can tell you, you are not going back to Windows.

[greenleo]

33 minutes ago, rickca said:

Wow, it's time consuming (but so worth it) to keep up with all this.  Thanks so much to @lmitche, @austinpop, @Johnseye and others for reporting your results.  

 

Is working with the GUI version of AL really more difficult than headless?  I would have thought the opposite.  I haven't started yet ... should I try the headless version first?  

If you're not using dual PC, GUI is easier due to mounting of the local HDD.

 

For dual PC and the audio has no internal storage, the headless now is more or less no brainer.

 

But the GUI version is always great for trouble shootings.

[greenleo]

5 minutes ago, sig8 said:

..., but I can tell you, you are not going back to Windows.

Totally agree.

[Johnseye]

34 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

No you can't. The headless only comes with the embedded version, which is web interface based and the license is more expensive than the desktop version.

 

Right so I either run Desktop on my server inor pony up for embedded. Considering it's in my server and not endpoint I'm not likely to get any improvement in SQ. 

[sig8]

Just now, Johnseye said:

 

Right so I either run Desktop on my server inor pony up for embedded. Considering it's in my server and not endpoint I'm not likely to get any improvement in SQ. 

John: You can try embedded. Trial version is there with AL.

[Middy]

45 minutes ago, the_doc735 said:

 

In this thread members have talked about various SOtM PCIe riser cards and 'clocks', but I didn't think a NUC had any PCIe slots or rear panel clock sockets, so how can they be used (with a NUC)?

Cheers!

I did post this, most won't use thier NIC card. I ordered an extender to move it away from the board. WIFI for me..

 

(I am not 100% if this works but there are extenders with pci sockets. )

See aliexpress examples here.

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cK4ENHSt

I wanted to move NIC and shield it. To see if it helps....

 

Note they seem to have power pins for independant supply? Or flying leads pins for testing. Not sure?

[RickyV]

18 minutes ago, greenleo said:

Totally agree.

 Darn it, i just bought jriver and AO last summer, is it a waist? Or can I use it for the server?

[greenleo]

I find lots of members wondering which is better, GUI or headless AL.  I hope that the following summary may help the invoice Linux users.  If Rajiv consider this summary hits the nail, may be he can put it in the 1st page as well.

 

The keypoints are can and would:

1. Can goes for the feasibility. 

For a single box solution with local storage, a headless cannot be the solution because you can't play the music files easily.  Also, I'm told that some sw just cannot work through the dual PC setup.  Single box GUI is the only option.

 

2. Would goes for the best SQ.

The GUI still enables dual PC set up.  NAA can be used.  Hence in terms of operations, little difference on the side of the control PC.

 

However, the very reason of using headless, at least to me, is the NUC can be truly barebone with no local HDD and only RAM.  In this case, the electrical noise may be minimized.  For the best SQ, headless boot in RAM is the only option.

 

Now the v0.5 headless has come out and the only command one needs to remember is alconf (please read my guide with images attached).  I see little reasons that headless is still a barrier.

 

3. The only drawback of the headless is network trouble shooting.  It drove me nuts and I still haven't sorted out everything yet.  But if your network is the ordinary one, namely both the control PC and the audio PC are connected into the same router using LAN cables (and only one subnet), it should be easy to set up the headless(please read my 1st guide on the headless AL for the network schematic diagram).  My network topology is much more complicated and I will not mention the details here.  However, the GUI AL in network trouble shooting can be a great help.

 

Hope this helps.

[greenleo]

10 minutes ago, RickyV said:

 Darn it, i just bought jriver and AO last summer, is it a waist? Or can I use it for the server?

Hey man, I bought the Fidelizer Pro and Lasso server edition (for WS2016 core) as well.  See, this is the inevitable results of this hobby.  Lol.

[Middy]

Does AL have an in built player? Sorry to ask. Nuc and case wiped my music $$$ fun funds...