A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Dev]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

When DirectStream is fed via I2S, is it supposed to operate in slave mode while the source is the master?

 

No slave mode. Ted doesn't like latching it as slave.

[Superdad]

20 minutes ago, Dev said:

No slave mode. Ted doesn't like latching it as slave.

 

Given the architecture of the DS DACs, with a single very high rate clock--one that is not even a multiple of standard audio-rate clocks--such world be impossible, and not desirable anyway.

[Dev]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 

Given the architecture of the DS DACs, with a single very high rate clock--one that is not even a multiple of standard audio-rate clocks--such world be impossible, and not desirable anyway.

 

The clocking scheme in DS is pretty elaborate and I think there is a post in their forum where Ted explains it in some details. It probably won't be impossible but it would definitely make the implementation a lot more complex and possibly with no sq benefits.

[moby1977]

Hello

 

Was wondering if anyone tried Waversa products and more specifically their switch and router and compared them with SOtm, Aqvox and co...

I tried their smarthub and more recently their router. Very good results in my setup: transparency,dynamics greatly improved but now I am curious to compare with the SOtm switch given the fact that I have already an external clock.

 

Alex

[89reksal]

3 hours ago, kelvinwsy said:

I am using Win Server 2016 Core Mode with Audiophile Optimizer and Fidelizer 8.2 Pro on a 6700k HQplayer to my SOTM 200 Ultra Neo

I use this as Hardware bridging

Thanks for the link. I'm hoping to resolve this without resorting to something like this or wifi dongle but I may end up having to try it.

 

This issue seems to be related to MPD/DLNA and possibly JRiver (only saying JRiver because it's running as DLNA server with JRemote as control point so it's definitely part of the DLNA stuff). I've been using Squeezelight/LMS with no issues at all in bridge mode. It was just a matter of switching to Squeezelight in Eunhasa and doing basic LMS configuration and it just worked as expected. No opinion on any sonic changes since I've never used Squeezelight before. Also nice to have all the replay gain/volume adjustment settings right on the remote (Ipeng).

 

I found one of my adapters, not sure if it was onboard or pci nic, wasn't in promiscuous mode while the other one was. After deleting the bridge and setting the second nic to be in promiscuous mode I was sure that would solve the problem.  After recreating the bridge, same stuttering again. After double checking for promiscuous mode, both adapters are enabled while the bridge port itself isn't. I don't know if the bridge itself is supposed to be in promiscuous mode or just the individual adapters. i wasn't able to find any answer googling.

 

I can't believe this is so difficult. Very strange. Hopefully somebody knows what's going on or I end up stumbling across a resolution. Definitely don't want to give up yet after spending so much time on it.

[kelvinwsy]

No stuttering with this bridge device

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, lasker98 said:

I found one of my adapters, not sure if it was onboard or pci nic, wasn't in promiscuous mode while the other one was.

 

Dare I ask what "promiscuous mode" is?  Sounds kinky for a NIC! 

[89reksal]

24 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

No stuttering with this bridge device

Interesting for sure. But why when I switch to Squeezelight with no other changes does everything just work? I sure don't get why this is so hard to achieve.

 

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Dare I ask what "promiscuous mode" is?  Sounds kinky for a NIC!

LOL I never heard of it myself before someone (clipper?) brought it up early on in this massive thread. My next step will probably be to disable it on both nics. Fun times. At least I can listen to music for now.

 

[austinpop]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Dare I ask what "promiscuous mode" is?  Sounds kinky for a NIC! 

 

Nothing that exciting!

 

Typically network adapters will only issue interrupts when an incoming frame (packet) on the wire has destination MAC address equal to the adapter’s MAC address. All other frames on the wire are ignored.

 

In promiscuous mode, all frames are passed up to the CPU by interrupt. This makes sense if you are implementing a virtual switch, which is what a bridge is.

[89reksal]

Apparently I'm losing my mind. It just dawned on me that if I'm using Squeezelight/LMS instead of MPD/DLNA, I no longer even need the server pc in the chain. Just disconnected cable from router to pc/server with bridge and connected directly to sms-200 and voila, I have the exact same functionality without going through the extra pc and bridge.

 

[nbpf]

I am currently running some tests (using `cyclictest -l1000000 -m -Sp90 -i200 -h400 -q`) to get latency measures for my minimal Raspbian distribution that I am using to run MinimServer and upmpdcli on a (RPi 3B+ & DigiOne Signature) server + renderer solution. 

 

For meaningful comparison with the results shown on http://www.audio-linux.com: are the tests meant to be run on a an idling system or on a system that is replaying some music?

 

Thanks, nbpf

[Peter_T]

6 hours ago, lasker98 said:

Apparently I'm losing my mind. It just dawned on me that if I'm using Squeezelight/LMS instead of MPD/DLNA, I no longer even need the server pc in the chain. Just disconnected cable from router to pc/server with bridge and connected directly to sms-200 and voila, I have the exact same functionality without going through the extra pc and bridge.

 

@lasker98  Yes : you do not need your PC if you have a LMS server running on your NAS.

I have a very similar setup as you (see my profile). I struggled with stuttering when trying to bridge the 2 NICs on my NUC under W2012r2 using Jriver-Jremote and the SOTM200 as DLNA renderer. Stuttering disappeared after adding a Wifi-dongle to form a 3-way bridge as you can read in the beginning of this thread.

I tried the Sqlite/LMS scenario also (without my NUC) but that only raised problems for me. LMS as a library server on my NAS was terribly slow and the control app on my Ipad is rudimentary compared to the Jriver-Jremote couple.

Now I have W2016-core on my NUC  and a NIC software bridge is not possible at all. My current solution is to attach the SOTM to NIC1 and use NIC2 to attach my NUC to the router. In this way the SOTM is isolated from the rest of the network and the SQ is better than having the SOTM on a network switch. You have to set the SOTM to a static IP-address. Jriver will (after a while) recognize the SOTM. If not, you can restart the SOTM or use Firefox (works under W2016-core) to open the eunhasu page and restart the DLNA renderer.

[kyrill]

you can bridge with a NUC by adding a better ( JCAT ETHERNET card)  via its M2.socket with an audiophile M2. pcie adapter. Then you have 3 NICs with two clocked by a femto clock. That is what I did. The NUC as server for the UltraRendu.

[Peter_T]

3 minutes ago, kyrill said:

you can bridge with a NUC by adding a better ( JCAT ETHERNET card)  via its M2.socket with an audiophile M2. pcie adapter. Then you have 3 NICs with two clocked by a femto clock. That is what I did. The NUC as server for the UltraRendu.

Does that work under W2016-core?

[kyrill]

Ah that is the question this topic should have answered. is network bridge possible in w2016 core? I have w2016 GUI and that is easy

I have not found what demands can be done in core for that outcome.

 

With audiolinux headless bridging apparently is possible and for audiolinux apparently the consensus is it sounds better than w2016 core.

 I am now building and taken care of my dc power and its cables incl inner dc cabling  ( sotm usb ultra for instance) and inner signal cabling in my tube amps. EMI/RFI is a real gremlin. After all that audioliniux hopefully has a manual for dummies

 

by the way,  Peter, could it be possible w2016 gui +bridge may sound better than core without one?

[Cooler]

47 minutes ago, kyrill said:

M2.socket with an audiophile M2. pcie adapter.

Can you provide the link to audiophile version of M2 adapter?

 

[kyrill]

I anticipated that see http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/2473-intel-nuc-alikes-which-accept-jcat-femto-ethernet-card/page-2

while most cards are around 10 dollars or even cheaper this one is 32 dolars, i bought three different ones, two mainstream and this one. the quality difference in materials was immediately  obvious

 

under the brand name you can see where to order

[Peter_T]

7 minutes ago, kyrill said:

Ah that is the question this topic should have answered. is network bridge possible in w2016 core? I have w2016 GUI and that is easy

I have not found what demands can be done in core for that outcome.

 

With audiolinux headless bridging apparently is possible and for audiolinux apparently the consensus is it sounds better than w2016 core.

 I am now building and taken care of my dc power and its cables incl inner dc cabling  ( sotm usb ultra for instance) and inner signal cabling in my tube amps. EMI/RFI is a real gremlin. After all that audioliniux hopefully has a manual for dummies

 

by the way,  Peter, could it be possible w2016 gui +bridge may sound better than core without one?

Network bridging is NOT possible either in W2012r2-core or W2016-core. I have tried hard and did not succeed. AO confrims this : see :

 

I have not tried W2016-GUI with bridging. It would require a complete re-installation, because you can't switch from core to gui in W2016.

But if I am going to change things, my next bet would be Audio-Linux.  

[kyrill]

yes, good bet. but linux  headless is awfully user unfriendly when you rely on "intuition" ,  still made by programmers for programmers especially when leaving the known paths of routine processes to explore boldly the unknown, where no man has been before. Precisely what this thread is about.

[89reksal]

2 hours ago, Peter_T said:

Yes : you do not need your PC if you have a LMS server running on your NAS.

I have a very similar setup as you (see my profile). I struggled with stuttering when trying to bridge the 2 NICs on my NUC under W2012r2 using Jriver-Jremote and the SOTM200 as DLNA renderer. Stuttering disappeared after adding a Wifi-dongle to form a 3-way bridge as you can read in the beginning of this thread.

I tried the Sqlite/LMS scenario also (without my NUC) but that only raised problems for me. LMS as a library server on my NAS was terribly slow and the control app on my Ipad is rudimentary compared to the Jriver-Jremote couple.

 Thanks Peter. Your posts on bridging from the beginning of this thread gave me a lot of help. Unfortunately (although now I would say fortunately) I wasn't able to get bridging working with MPD/DLNA. It just worked as soon as switching to Squeezelight.

 

Getting the pc out of the equation is huge in my system. Immediate, obvious improvement. I have no intention of going back to using it.

 

I've used JRiver/JRemote ever since building the CAPS server at least six years ago, so definitely different going to Squeezelight/LMS/iPeng, although even at this early stage I see benefits. My dac only handles maximum of 24-96 so I haven't noticed any difference in accessing my NAS. I had been having issues with replay gain settings with MPD/DLNA and now iPeng has the settings right on the remote. Best of all, they just work. I listen to internet radio (Radio Paradise) quite a bit and with JRiver/JRemote on my iPod, audio just played with no indication of what was playing or any cover art. I had to have Radio Paradise app open on my iPod to follow what was actually playing. With iPeng, I now get cover art and song listed just like playing my own files. So that's a definite plus for me. The biggest thing up to this point is that it looks like I may have lost all the playlists I had created in JRiver, although I plan on seeing if there's a way to get them into LMS. Compared to the audible improvements, I'm more than happy to lose JRiver. I'd even just upgraded to latest JRiver over the weekend since I thought there could be some improvements with DLNA functionality, which I found temperamental to say the least, with sms-200.

 

Bottom line for me, this failed bridging attempt turned out to be a blessing. I'm very happy.

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, Peter_T said:

Network bridging is NOT possible either in W2012r2-core or W2016-core. I have tried hard and did not succeed. AO confrims this : see :

 

I have not tried W2016-GUI with bridging. It would require a complete re-installation, because you can't switch from core to gui in W2016.

But if I am going to change things, my next bet would be Audio-Linux.  

I believe somebody in this thread done it.  Please search.

[greenleo]

1 hour ago, kyrill said:

yes, good bet. but linux  headless is awfully user unfriendly when you rely on "intuition" ,  still made by programmers for programmers especially when leaving the known paths of routine processes to explore boldly the unknown, where no man has been before. Precisely what this thread is about.

not true and follow the web site's instruction will do, say using HQPlayer in the control PC and headless as an NAA.

[greenleo]

This would be my last guide on the AudioLinux GUI version.  If Rajiv find these guides useful, please put them in the index.

 

Installation guide 5: Automount 

Foreword:

1. It is not necessary to do this guide.  If  you are using RAMBoot, and mount the drive interactively (as shown in the previous guides), and do not show down your AudioLInux (entirely possible because some NUC only runs at 10W)

2. Wrong lines in the fstab file may make your USB disk not bootable.  So be careful.

3. This example works if the file system of the target hdd is NTFS.

 

This guideline is divided into 3 parts:

A) Find the UUID of the local hard disk to be mounted:

1. Click the icon to launch terminal

2. Type blkid to find the UUID of the target hdd

In this example, the target hdd is SLC_240 is the 01D....

 

B) Update the file /etc/fstab

1. Click the red folder  (Must be the red one, not the blue one)

2. Click computer

3. Click file system

4. Click etc

5. Scroll down, until fstab is found.  Click to open it

6. Update the fstab file.

red part: subs. your own parameter for the value after UUID

blue part: may be changed but not recommended.  Please refer to the official site for the details.

orange part: should not be changed.

Save the file.

Reboot.

 

C) Check

Open the Start here folder.  Click samba (if the blue part wasn't changed) and check if files in your hard disk is being displayed.  Your screen should be different from mine.

 

* If the check if OK, then the auto-mount is successful.  Now you may use say, HQPlayer, to your music files.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[beautiful music]

On 11/5/2018 at 4:36 PM, greenleo said:

AudioLinux Installation Guide 2:

 

Preparation:

** Continue from the end of Guide 1.  **

1. Unplug the USB disk.  Note: After the burning, Windows can't recognize it and hence can't eject it.

2. Insert the USB disk to a PC (power off) which you want to run the AudioLinux GUI mode

3. Power on the PC, get into the UEFI, from the boot menu, choose the just created USB disk as the boot device and boot.

4. Wait a relatively long time until you see a Windows environment (see the image below).  In the process, some text comes out from the screen.  Error message may come out but don't worry.  Wait until Windows environment comes out.

 

Steps to mount a local drive

1. Click the Start here folder (it may lag few seconds depend on the speed of your computer and the USB disk)

2. Click the local Drive that contains your music files

3. Input the password audiolinux0 as the password to mount

4. Check the mount is complete.

5. (As an example) Launch HQPlayer

6. Add you library, set the settings of HQPlayer and play your music by HQPlayer.

 

End of guide 2.  Enjoy!

 

Note:

1. After reboot, the mount of the local drive is gone.

2. Linux is pretty stable, you may leave for tens of days.  Hence 1 won't introduce much problem.

3. Auto-mount of a drive is possible but needs using terminal, issue commands, and editing the file fstab.  It's better for the users to read the instructions and follow.  The boot may not be possible if fstab is wrong (as stated in the official site.)

4. In principle you may do the RAMBoot.  However it's better to set up everything properly before using RAMBoot.

 

Thank you @greenleo for your efforts but in order to mount my drivers i faced a problem from time to time but not always, actually when i opened the Start Here Folder sometimes i can't see my local drivers and sometimes i see my local drivers but when i'm trying to mount it, the popup message came as hereunder image.

 

So what do you think about my issues?

 

[nbpf]

Here are the results of `cyclictest -l100000000 -m -Sp90 -i200 -h400 -q` for the dedicated Raspbian system that hosts my DigiOne Signature. The system runs on a  RPi 3B+ with cpu frequency set at constant 1.2GHz.

 

The kernel is the standard Linux rpi6 4.14.71-v7+ #1145 SMP Fri Sep 21 15:38:35 BST 2018 armv7l GNU/Linux with only a few optimization options. Are these results good? Are they bad? Are what one would expect?