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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

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33 minutes ago, seatrope said:

What i want is an audiophile USB output card

I understand you're talking about a PCIe USB card like JCAT USB Card FEMTO, but why not use an outboard solution like tX-USBultra or the one that Innuos is working on with two Statement-class power supplies? 

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13 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

25MHz clock could be replaced by an OCXO from Connor-Winfield while there's another Colpitts oscillator for the 19.2MHz clock

 

Not sure why people keep using or mentioning Connor-Winfield OCXOs.  Their phase-noise at low-offsets (1Hz, 10Hz, 100Hz) is nothing to write home about.  There are vastly less expensive low-phase-noise XOs with better performance.

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1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Yes, you are right of course. Still not sure what impact an external USB card would have on the current (amperage) budget.

 

I have to say that the sound quality is so amazing I'm not sure anything more is necessary. When I said end game. I'm not kidding.

 

You guys are suffering from premature optimization.  Never good. Get your hands on a NUC and have a listen. ;)

Good points all. I in fact already have a NUC, but the J5005 version, that I use for home automation duties. @rickca I do have a txusb Ultra but was thinking that having the SOTM card running too would be nice. 

Unfortuately my DAC is down for a month due to a shipping accident so no experimenting for me...

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1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Yes, you are right of course. Still not sure what impact an external USB card would have on the current (amperage) budget.

 

I have to say that the sound quality is so amazing I'm not sure anything more is necessary. When I said end game. I'm not kidding.

 

You guys are suffering from premature optimization.  Never good. Get your hands on a NUC and have a listen. ;)

 

The more I listen, the more I think Audiolinux booted from RAM is just a whole new league from what I've experienced with the Allo Digi One bridged... and I'm still using a SMPS for the Brix running Audiolinux (and so is my DAC... and the ISO Regen feeding it as well)... I have a long way to go, but RAM booting headless Audiolinux is equivalent in my eyes to the impact of network bridging.

 

 

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10 hours ago, beautiful music said:

 

Thank you both for this feedback.

 

And this is good to know as well.

 

This is raised a question that AFAIK we need only one NUC running Audiolinux GUI Ramroot with diskless as we can't use Headless version with jRiver upon to Piero information and this NUC will connect to NAS eventually.

 

Is there any missing information or am i wrong with something else?

 

Also i'm thinking that maybe Roonserver+Roonbridge running in a separate NUC's will be better than the single NUC running jRiver, is this right or not?

 

 

I have no experience with two PCs nor two NUCs, so can't comment there. The Audiolinux+NUC approach is still a new adventure so I am waiting for the dust to settle a bit. Thanks to the pioneers here, Larry and Roy.

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2 hours ago, taipan254 said:

The more I listen, the more I think Audiolinux booted from RAM is just a whole new league from what I've experienced

Given adequate RAM most Linux kernels run in RAM -- unless you are logging stuff to disc. Check out live-initramfs and for Ubunto the "toram" option

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Thanks to this forum, I am now interested in getting network switch, seems like important component in audio chain. 

Out of curiosity I am wondering, are there any options to go over wifi. My friend who bought New Auralic Aries G1 streamer mentioned that Auralic prefers wifi connection over ethernet. I guess this could be because of downside of ethernet. So far, I checked both wifi and ethernet connection, I could not able to tell the difference with Aries G1 (i used JSSG360 Ghent CAT6 from router). Are there any worst or good experience to share. Has this been tried with NUC?

 

Cheers,

Soma

 

 

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13 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

Thanks for this info. Very helpful. I guess the  OCXO from pink faun acts like reference clock? I think it makes sense to get pinkfaun bridge first and then upgrade with the OcXO clock later. TheSOtM seems a bit less cost effective, though cheaper initially. Pinkfaun also seems to have great service and more upgrades available lae on. I presume their newer OCXO woudl be evem more costly ?

 

I believe the term "reference clock" means it's a base clock (usually in 10Mhz) from which other clocks uses to generate their required frequencies (say 20Mhz at the USB point, 25Mhz at the processor point, 24.576Mhz at the iS2 point etc) at the point of need. In the Pink Faun case, they don't use a reference clock but insert separate good clocks at the required frequencies at the points of need instead. This clock signal isn't shared with other clocks.

 

In the Reference clock system in a SOtM system you would have :

 

Reference Clock 10Mhz (low phase noise) --> sCLKex card --> up to 4 separate clock frequencies (eg 20, 25, etc) --> wherever you need the clock frequencies. Phase noise perhaps slight higher due to the frequency conversions and wired connections.

 

In the Pink Faun case, you would have:

 

Low phase noise clocks at the required frequencies (eg 20, 25 etc)  directly attached to where you need them. No conversions and no wires required but instead you would need a good, low phase clock per required point. (With the sCLK-ex card, you get 4 points).  At this point it seems you can get away with higher phase noise clocks using Pink Faun's approach while maintaining the same sound quality but you would need multiple clocks at strategic points, not just one.

 

The Pink Faun approach is an all-in one. You commit to them and it's not flexible outside of their brand. With the SOtM and Reference clock system, you can use their clock points on just about any device that allows a clock input. Not to mention the fun/mess of upgrading the parts and perhaps selling the parts later too when you're done with them.

 

The upgrade system with PF is to return the board and they'll send a new one with the upgraded clock and board. And yes, the newer clocks are more expensive, not sure if the official price has been offered yet. But the announced phase noise is very exciting at -133dBC/Hz (10Mhz) at use frequency of 20Mhz. Clocks frequencies are a little tricky to understand but I have some info on this in something I wrote earlier under the "On Clocks" paragraph:

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=367&tab=comments#comment-862221

 

 

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Greenleo thx .

 

question about the last picture. I understand "do not click start"

The option then is "close" I think, but you suggest write finished? or is it it "close"

after the writing is finished and that is the case when the start button is not grey again?

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2 hours ago, kyrill said:

Greenleo thx .

 

question about the last picture. I understand "do not click start"

The option then is "close" I think, but you suggest write finished? or is it it "close"

after the writing is finished and that is the case when the start button is not grey again?

You just need to unplug the USB disk.

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On 9/18/2018 at 9:21 AM, seeteeyou said:

FYI - yet another USB DDC with 10MHz reference clock input

 

AZNcoQ5.jpg EbtRk97.jpg

Just ordered one today. Will directly compare with my modded SU-1 and Dante DIO XLR.

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16 hours ago, austinpop said:

Ronn Core on audiolinux Dell, running Bridge on SE

 

Do you mean, you installed audiolinux on SE too and activated there RoonBridge?

 

Can someone clarify, what the main function of RoonBridge, does it buffer audio stream?

 

If i have iMac as RoonServer (macOS) and will add audiolinux RoonBridge to celeron nuc or raspberry Pi (some low power PC), will i get all benefits of audiolinux "magic"?  Or there are should be all chains with audiolinux RoonServer and RoonBridge. Or just RoonServer directly connected to RoonEndpoint.

 

ps. unbelievable, that digital audio is like alchemy, nobody really know whats going on out there, we just try this and that, mixing different ingredients...

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2 hours ago, Cooler said:

 

Do you mean, you installed audiolinux on SE too and activated there RoonBridge?

 

Can someone clarify, what the main function of RoonBridge, does it buffer audio stream?

 

No. The SE has both Roon Core and Bridge packages available. The Core package includes Bridge.

 

What are these 2 things? Core is the full fledged Roon server. Bridge is a lighter subset, that only connects to the attached audio devices, and exposes them as RAAT endpoints, that another Core can see. Bridge is much smaller, and consumes very little resources.

 

Completing this train of thought - endpoints that have gotten certified by Roon - like the mR and sMS-200ultra - run a flavor of the bridge code, but it's called Roon Ready.

 

2 hours ago, Cooler said:

ps. unbelievable, that digital audio is like alchemy, nobody really know whats going on out there, we just try this and that, mixing different ingredients...

 

Are we having fun yet? :) 

 

It's all worth the hassle when you hear the results.

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