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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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I use an optimized windows server 2016 and the reslt is very good, but I never tried Tidal. Is that difficult to make it working with an sms-200?

Cause I haven't optimized my NAS, I find most of my red book rips aren't that better than tidal Hi-Fi. So didn't bother. That's why I am exploring an optimized NAS, especially SSD prices has become a lot more reasonable. A 2T ssd is entering the affordable category

 

 

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CF type 1 cards are permitted to draw up to a max of 0.07A per spec. CF type 2 cards are allowed to draw up to 0.5A and so those should be avoided. I have noticed some SDXC cards can draw as much as 0.6A and so a 64GB SDXC card potentially could draw nearly 10x more current than even a 512GB type 1 CF card! SD cards consume fewer watts than SSDs but because most SD cards are 3.3V devices (as opposed to 5V devices), the more power hungry SD cards (the very fastest ones) actually draw the same amount of current as an SSD. Regardless, I am finding an SDXC card to have none of the HF issues as my SSD but to put this in proper context, when connected via my Pachanko SATA Reference cable and when powered by my LPS-1, SSD still sounds very good and so I will need to weigh the conveniences and much higher capacity of an SSD vs the slightly better SQ of CF and SD cards when used as a music storage drive. As for the OS, I'm fairly certain I will be going with CF SLC.

 

Yes, I plan to interface my CF cards via SATA using devices like the following. The top device will be used for my OS drive:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33788[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33789[/ATTACH]

This is the Lexar reader I am using now to do my testing:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33790[/ATTACH]

 

Mine connects via USB 3.0 and contains both SD and CF readers and so I can do easy A/B comparisons. I am not presently using an audiophile-grade USB 3.0 cable and so I'm sure SQ could improve further. The nice thing about this reader is that you can power it with an LPS-1 at 5V and not surprisingly, it makes a difference vs the stock switching wall wart and also against a bus-powered reader that I have. I will see how it compares against the internal devices I listed above which connects via the lower latency SATA bus compared to USB. The internal device that I plan to use for my OS drive also contains a replaceable clock and I am intrigued to know whether replacing this clock will result in further improvement.

 

 

Can't wait your findings.

I heard Pang Pang had a discounted product that uses CF for OS. Have you tried?

 

After recollect my impressions in this very fruitful thread, I'm thinking if the clock of a LAN card may be upgraded to improve the sound but no good at soldiering. May be somebody can try as well.

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I use an optimized windows server 2016 and the reslt is very good, but I never tried Tidal. Is that difficult to make it working with an sms-200?

 

I don't have a sms200. I have an auralic Aries mini. Their app integrates Tidal and NAS music quite well.

 

 

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Have any of you guys tried running your windows 10 pc displays at 600 x 800 resolution? The display picture is smaller but oh my does it sound good. I normally set my display at 1280 x 1000 (or something like this) and wow does it look good but not sound as good as the lower resolution.

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Gotcha. I have slim down my music collection to around 1T on my 2bay Synology in SSD. I am relying the remaining music on Tidal. I view in the future, I will rely on Tidal and likes more. The NAS will b for those rare ones that I have but Tidal doesn't have (e.g. A vinyl rip from friend or some others).

 

That's why I am thinking to build a better NAS as source for my streamer/DAC. Otherwise, I will likely go for the ready built stuff, melco, aurender, etc.

 

 

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With only about 1TB of music, you shouldn't feel bound to a NAS but since you already own a NAS and if you prefer to stick with it, you should consider directly connecting it to your streamer/DAC and see what you think, even without any special optimizations. Here is @lmitche's thread on that topic:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f7-disk-storage-music-library-storage/has-anyone-tried-bridge-two-ethernet-ports-dual-port-network-attached-storage-22283/#post370347

 

Should you decide to go with a Melco or Aurender, I think they're both excellent. I don't think the Aurenders get really good until the N10 or W20, however. The Melco N1ZH I had on loan for a few weeks was excellent and a better value. The problem with either are their user interfaces. Aurender's Conductor is much more refined than the options available with the Melco although I still found I had a personal preference for Roon which is why I sold my Aurender. More importantly, the much less expensive setup I have currently is considerably better than my experience with even Aurender's W20 from a SQ standpoint and hopefully, there is even better SQ to come.

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I use an optimized windows server 2016 and the reslt is very good, but I never tried Tidal. Is that difficult to make it working with an sms-200?

I would love to personally move from Windows Server 2012 to 2016 based on reports that SQ is even better with it and if you are interested in Tidal playback with an sMS-200 or mR, this should be possible even in Core mode from what I understand but if you are interested in Roon/Tidal, you would be forced to GUI mode. Unfortunately, with Windows Server 2016, minimal server mode is no longer an option.

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Have any of you guys tried running your windows 10 pc displays at 600 x 800 resolution? The display picture is smaller but oh my does it sound good. I normally set my display at 1280 x 1000 (or something like this) and wow does it look good but not sound as good as the lower resolution.

 

My display is pitch black with only JRiver showing, usually minimized to the corner of the screen while playback occurs. But I could imagine any power resource reduced would be better, just that I like to play videos with hi quality sound from time to time.

 

EDIT: Just gave it a try at 600 X 800. Good call, does make a difference in SQ for the better.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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Can't wait your findings.

I heard Pang Pang had a discounted product that uses CF for OS. Have you tried?

 

After recollect my impressions in this very fruitful thread, I'm thinking if the clock of a LAN card may be upgraded to improve the sound but no good at soldiering. May be somebody can try as well.

Yes, as I stated previously, I had contemplated a server build using Paul's CF to SATA adapter that also incorporated his OCXO clock. Paul likes to put his clocks on almost everything he makes that has a clock as he insists it makes a difference. Here is the adapter that he sells and it can be fitted with either his TCXO or OCXO clock. As you'll see from his website, his offerings aren't inexpensive:

 

ocxo-sata-cf-adapter.jpghttp://ppaproduct.blogspot.tw/2016/05/cf-to-sata-adapter.html

 

In my build, I am expecting that replacing the clock on my LAN card to result in at least the same (or larger) magnitude of difference as what I am getting from my current reclocking switch. Obviously, doing so will not only provide a cleaner and better timed stream going out but I also expect it to do the same thing with the incoming stream from the router. This is where I am hoping to improve SQ from Tidal.

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I have a 2012 Macbook Pro without an ethernet port but I do have 2 thunderbolt and 2 USB ports. If I purchased 2 ethernet adapters anyone know if I will be able to direct connect to my microRendu or is at least one ethernet port a must? Thanks!

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EDIT: Just gave it a try at 600 X 800. Good call, does make a difference in SQ for the better.

This is too weird! OK, you and Theobetley agree it works, but I wonder why it makes a difference if you aren't running explorer.exe and you run JRiver minimized.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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Have any of you guys tried running your windows 10 pc displays at 600 x 800 resolution? The display picture is smaller but oh my does it sound good. I normally set my display at 1280 x 1000 (or something like this) and wow does it look good but not sound as good as the lower resolution.

With some computers, if nothing is connected to the video outputs (i.e. Mac Mini), then power is automatically cut off from the video card which would be the ideal scenario. With most other computers, you can shut down the integrated GPU in bios which should work just as well. During comparative testing with one of my previous servers, this definitely made a small improvement in SQ. With Audiophile Optimizer, I know that Phil suggests you not install any video software if possible.

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This is too weird! OK, you and Theobetley agree it works, but I wonder why it makes a difference if you aren't running explorer.exe and you run JRiver minimized.

 

Your still sending a video signal. By reducing the amount of video data, pixel rate, being transmitted, you lower the amount of resource use on the CPU, less electrical needs?

 

Obviously, no video would be the best. But then you would need to communicate via Ethernet and it's resources needed, which I don't currently use. I'm beginning to think that I'm going to need two separate systems. One with video playback direct USB, the other, no video via Renderer, audio only.

 

No matter what, it seems, however you begin the playback of media it is influenced by the component/software. Makes sense to handle with as much care the beginning process all the way to the end, the DAC. This is why I can't fathom using HQP as an upsampling, filtering media player. How can all that CPU usage not be detrimental to sound quality regardless of the gains? Far better to allow a more passive audio built device such as a Chord DAC to do the filtering?

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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This is too weird! OK, you and Theobetley agree it works, but I wonder why it makes a difference if you aren't running explorer.exe and you run JRiver minimized.

With a monitor connected, the screen is redrawn 60 times per second (or whatever refresh rate has been set but 60Hz is default for most LCDs). With higher resolutions, the idea is that the computer (ie GPU) has to work harder to display the image potentially resulting in more noise. This is one of the SQ benefits of going headless and one of the reasons Roon believes the control PC and output PC should not be the same.

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I have a 2012 Macbook Pro without an ethernet port but I do have 2 thunderbolt and 2 USB ports. If I purchased 2 ethernet adapters anyone know if I will be able to direct connect to my microRendu or is at least one ethernet port a must? Thanks!

You should be able to purchase 2 Thunderbolt LAN adapters and bridge them. From there, you should be able to directly connect to your mR.

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My display is pitch black with only JRiver showing, usually minimized to the corner of the screen while playback occurs. But I could imagine any power resource reduced would be better, just that I like to play videos with hi quality sound from time to time.

 

EDIT: Just gave it a try at 600 X 800. Good call, does make a difference in SQ for the better.

Yes, you want to uninstall any Intel graphics driver. Once done this will force the display into 800x600 VGA mode and turn off the internal GPU increasing SQ.

 

I assume you are running headless with rdp or vnc or something.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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Yes, you want to uninstall any Intel graphics driver. Once done this will force the display into 800x600 VGA mode and turn off the internal GPU increasing SQ.

 

I assume you are running headless with rdp or vnc or something.

 

Nope. I'm using my only mobo video output, HDMI to my monitor. I only reduced the resolution manually via windows 10 display settings. Afterward I shut down Windows Explorer and Task Manager. Larry, I'm not aware how to run headless without any Ethernet connection? Is there a way to shut down the internal GPU from task manager? Restart it from keyboard?

 

NOTE: I currently want the ability for better graphics display on video hi res playback when desired.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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Yes, as I stated previously, I had contemplated a server build using Paul's CF to SATA adapter that also incorporated his OCXO clock. Paul likes to put his clocks on almost everything he makes that has a clock as he insists it makes a difference. Here is the adapter that he sells and it can be fitted with either his TCXO or OCXO clock. As you'll see from his website, his offerings aren't inexpensive:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33805[/ATTACH]http://ppaproduct.blogspot.tw/2016/05/cf-to-sata-adapter.html

 

In my build, I am expecting that replacing the clock on my LAN card to result in at least the same (or larger) magnitude of difference as what I am getting from my current reclocking switch. Obviously, doing so will not only provide a cleaner and better timed stream going out but I also expect it to do the same thing with the incoming stream from the router. This is where I am hoping to improve SQ from Tidal.

What NIC are you using? A thread here discuss how to upgrade the clock in a NIC. A member suggested that the clock of Intel X520 is already very good.

 

Following the hypothesis that putting the best clock as close to DAC and the direct connection, the modding of the NIC should be the way to try. I hope that one day we may have a NIC that can be powered externally.

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What NIC are you using?

 

I will refer you back to my post #821. Here are excerpts:

 

Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-H110TN-GSM Plus ($110)

...This model happens to have dual integrated Intel gigabyte NICs (Intel I219V and I211) which are not server grade. As this motherboard will be sent to SOtM to have its key clocks replaced, I noticed 5 clocks including a 24MHz system clock and dual 25MHz clocks for each LAN port and so I figured I would replace these 3 clocks. As I approached SOtM about replacing the switching regulators that feed each Intel LAN port, here is what Lee (one of SOtM's lead engineers) had to say:

 

"It's very difficult to replace switching regulator in mother board with linear regulator because mother board is very complex. Almost mother board use 6 or 8 layer PCB, it means maybe we can't see power signal lines. And maybe power signal lines share with other device...It makes difficult to replace."

 

Bummer.

 

LAN Adapter Card - Intel E1G42ETBLK Dual Port PCI-Express Server LAN adapter ($145)

So my solution to Lee's statement was to bypass the dual Intel LAN ports built into the Gigabyte motherboard with this card. They incorporate Intel's slightly older but highly regarded server-grade LAN chipset, the E1G42ET. In contrast to their newer I350-T2 chipset, this one consumes less power (2.8w vs >4w) but is also devoid of Intel's integrated power saving feature. Because it is PCIE, it has a lower latency pathway to the CPU and each LAN port has it's own independent path. Moreover, instead of 2 separate clocks for each LAN port on the Gigabyte motherboard, this card uses only a single clock which leaves me with 2 free clocks. To my delight, Lee has told me he can also replace the switching regulators on this card with SOtM's ultra low noise voltage regulators and further add capacitors. This would be as close to an audiophile LAN card as I can think of and may possibly allow me to remove my reclocking switch from the direct path and reposition it between my router and music server.

A thread here discuss how to upgrade the clock in a NIC.

 

Can you please point us to that thread, GreenLeo?

 

A member suggested that the clock of Intel X520 is already very good.

 

It could be already very good but here is my perspective. The stock clocks in the sMS-200 are what I would call clocks that are already very good. Despite how good it's clocks are, once they were replaced by the sCLK-EX, I found it quite impressive how much further improvement I heard.

 

Following the hypothesis that putting the best clock as close to DAC and the direct connection, the modding of the NIC should be the way to try. I hope that one day we may have a NIC that can be powered externally.

 

Yes, I have high hopes for what this reclocked Intel NIC card will offer, both for the incoming stream but also for the outgoing stream. While it cannot be powered externally, it will at least have it's switching regulators replaced with SOtM's ultra low noise linear regulators which should help.

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Yes, you want to uninstall any Intel graphics driver. Once done this will force the display into 800x600 VGA mode and turn off the internal GPU increasing SQ.

 

I assume you are running headless with rdp or vnc or something.

 

Nice tweak. I'll try this on my W10/AO/MinimServer bridged machine, and report back. It's using an NVidia graphics adapter.

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Nope. I'm using my only mobo video output, HDMI to my monitor. I only reduced the resolution manually via windows 10 display settings. Afterward I shut down Windows Explorer and Task Manager. Larry, I'm not aware how to run headless without any Ethernet connection? Is there a way to shut down the internal GPU from task manager? Restart it from keyboard?

 

NOTE: I currently want the ability for better graphics display on video hi res playback when desired.

Over here I have still have my Ethernet connected but shutdown the Windows networks services. The only apps on the network are tightvnc server for control from my laptop and Roon links to Tidal.

 

The Windows PC has only three wires connected, AC power from a 1 to 1 isolation transformer, fiber to the USB box, and ethernet connected via EMOsystems isolation to a wireless adapter. Connecting a monitor breaks the isolation, so I only use a monitor when access to the BIOS is needed, otherwise it's disconnected.

 

Make sense?

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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Over here I have still have my Ethernet connected but shutdown the Windows networks services. The only apps on the network are tightvnc server for control from my laptop and Roon links to Tidal.

 

The Windows PC has only three wires connected, AC power from a 1 to 1 isolation transformer, fiber to the USB box, and ethernet connected via EMOsystems isolation to a wireless adapter. Connecting a monitor breaks the isolation, so I only use a monitor when access to the BIOS is needed, otherwise it's disconnected.

 

Make sense?

 

Yes, Larry, makes sense. HDMI is hot swappable. I suppose I could just turn off the monitor and disconnect the HDMI. At least this would isolate the PC. I have found ground loops from HDMI before.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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Yes, you want to uninstall any Intel graphics driver. Once done this will force the display into 800x600 VGA mode and turn off the internal GPU increasing SQ.

 

I've been using a display emulator with my Mac Mini just to allow quicker screen sharing connections. Apparently it does this by turning on the GPU. I kinda wondered it this would be detrimental to SQ. I'll pull it and see.

 

This is the device by the way:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FLZXGJ6/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_arnWybJ3D0SKZ

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

Digital:  Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120

Amp & Speakers:  Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T

Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali v1 and Typhon x1 power conditioners, Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation and Infinity power cords, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation XLR interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD 60 speaker cables, GIK bass traps, ASC Isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels, Quadraspire SVT rack, PGGB 256

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Can you please point us to that thread, GreenLeo?

 

Yes, I have high hopes for what this reclocked Intel NIC card will offer, both for the incoming stream but also for the outgoing stream. While it cannot be powered externally, it will at least have it's switching regulators replaced with SOtM's ultra low noise linear regulators which should help.

The thread:http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/network-card-clock-upgrade-31824/

It was pretty hot there☺. There were things pretty technical in that thread.

 

Any pricing info for replacing the regulator on the Intel NIC? I believe this is one of the most important tweaks in CAS and look forward to your future findings. I tried to use Windows Server but found it very troublesome--lots of drivers would be missing for my humble mono and one of them is the onboard Intel NIC. I bought a cheap PICe NIC to solve the problem LOL.

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Since you guys are gonna mod one of those PCI-Express cards anyways, what if we go one step further and replace RJ-45 jacks with the industrial M12 X-coded ones to further reduce the noise?

 

https://www.telegaertner.com/en/info/highlights/m12/

http://www.lda.be/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=145:molex-m12-cat-6a-connector-system&catid=11&Itemid=82&lang=en

Complete 360º shielded design: 4 twisted-cable pairs individually shielded and protected with a braided metal shield. Optimal signal performance without system noise interference.

Telegärtner is already selling this M12 SWITCH GOLD in Japan for 3 grands:

http://www.audiounion.jp/ct/detail/new/138728/

http://www.telegaertner.co.jp/product/newproduct/m12_switch_gold/m12_switch_gold.html

 

Extremely positive review:

http://asoyaji.blogspot.com/2017/02/m12-gold-switch.html

 

PerfecTron MT321-M Gigabit Ethernet Adapter Network Mini PCIe Module with 2 X M12 Connectors

http://www.perfectron.com/download/datasheet/MT321.pdf

http://www.perfectron.com/download/users_manual/MT321QIGV1.0_20150604.pdf

http://www.wdlsystems.com/Communications/PerfecTron-MT321M-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter-Network-Mini-PCIe-Module-with-2-X-M12-Connectors.html

 

Obviously we're talking about direct connections now but what if the same advantages were still applicable?

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Have any of you guys tried running your windows 10 pc displays at 600 x 800 resolution? The display picture is smaller but oh my does it sound good. I normally set my display at 1280 x 1000 (or something like this) and wow does it look good but not sound as good as the lower resolution.

 

Yes, you want to uninstall any Intel graphics driver. Once done this will force the display into 800x600 VGA mode and turn off the internal GPU increasing SQ

 

I just have a basic monitor on my W10 Ent/AO/Bridged machine, running at 1280x1024 native resolution. The graphics adapter is an nVidia with 1GB video RAM. I tried this:

  • Removed nVidia apps and driver
  • The display driver the system reverted to was the Microsoft Basic display
  • dropped the resolution down to 800x600
  • Also, tried an experiment running AO shell replacement directly to MinimServer

 

The last dropped my process count from 50 to 41.

 

In terms of SQ - I really can't say I heard a difference I could be confident in. It was late, and I was tired, so I might try again, but indications are that the difference is small.

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