A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[beautiful music]

@austinpop Because I need to buy now either Zenith or Ref10 and As you have Zenith + tX-USBUltra + Ref10 in your chain which one do you think brings more enhancements to your system Zenith or tX-USBUltra + Ref10 

 

Bear in mind I have in my chain already tX-USBUltra with master clock input 

 

 

[rickca]

Everyone with a SuperMicro motherboard, you need to read this.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/chinese-operatives-were-able-to-infiltrate-motherboards-made-by-a-us-company-that-sold-to-apple-and-amazon-bloomberg-2018-10-04

[austinpop]

I’m heading to RMAF so will likely be delayed in any responses.

 

1 hour ago, beautiful music said:

@austinpop Because I need to buy now either Zenith or Ref10 and As you have Zenith + tX-USBUltra + Ref10 in your chain which one do you think brings more enhancements to your system Zenith or tX-USBUltra + Ref10 

 

Bear in mind I have in my chain already tX-USBUltra with master clock input 

 

What is upstream of your tX-USBultra?

[Johnseye]

13 hours ago, beautiful music said:

Just to make sure if I have Win10 installed in my HP Laptop and AFAIK I can run Audiolinux in RAM so should Win10 be erased or it will remain as it is.

 

Also does that mean if I want to run Audiolinux shall I install it every time from USB if I turned off my laptop or what?

 

Further explanation is highly appreciated. 

 

If you load Audiolinux from a USB stick then load it into ram it shouldn't touch what's on your hard drive. If you power that drive separately you can unplug it. 

 

If you turn off your pc/laptop you need to reload it into ram. It doesn't stay. 

[beautiful music]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

I’m heading to RMAF so will likely be delayed in any responses.

 

 

What is upstream of your tX-USBultra?

Happy a weekend in RMAF.

 

Laptop with Win10 > lush USB Cable > ISOREGEN > USPCB > tX-USBUltra > Lush USB > DAC\AMP

 

Soon I will install Audiolinux 

[tims]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

I’m heading to RMAF so will likely be delayed in any responses.

 

Hi Rajiv

 

Don't know if you're doin' requests ? but if you're passing room 3018 would you mind popping in and listening to the Clayton Shaw and Vinnie Rossi combo; the new Lumina L2 Servo Dipole speakers with VR's new L2 Signature Preamplifier and L2 Monoblocks using a Innuos music server.  

Should be one of the best sounds there, shame I can't make it.

 

Thanks

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154916.msg1707055#msg1707055

 

 

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, Mark62 said:

 I just recently got an ultraRendu and have been so impressed with its sound.  If it can get even better, I'll be quite happy!

 

Well do you have a great power supply for it?  I know where you can get one that matches perfectly.  

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Well do you have a great power supply for it?  I know where you can get one that matches perfectly.  

Alex, this isn’t allowed. 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, tims said:

Hi Rajiv

 

Don't know if you're doin' requests ? but if you're passing room 3018 would you mind popping in and listening to the Clayton Shaw and Vinnie Rossi combo; the new Lumina L2 Servo Dipole speakers with VR's new L2 Signature Preamplifier and L2 Monoblocks using a Innuos music server.  

Should be one of the best sounds there, shame I can't make it.

 

Thanks

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154916.msg1707055#msg1707055

 

 

 

Will definitely add it to my list. No promises, though!

[austinpop]

3 hours ago, beautiful music said:

Happy a weekend in RMAF.

 

Laptop with Win10 > lush USB Cable > ISOREGEN > USPCB > tX-USBUltra > Lush USB > DAC\AMP

 

Soon I will install Audiolinux 

 

Hi Sadek,

 

There are a lot of considerations in this simple question. First of all, the SE and the Ref-10 make improvements in different areas. The SE really adds dynamics (especially through the native player), and a clean, smooth tonality that is just so pleasing. The Ref-10 just opens up the soundstage, brings instruments into sharper focus, adds more "air," reveals very fine details.

 

However, if it were me, and I had to pick one, I'd go with the clock. The reason I say that is because of Roy's and Larry's findings with ramboot audiolinux NUCs. There is still more to be learned here, so while it is possible that the best SQ would come from an SE (booted from an audiolinux USB stick!), it's also possible that similar SQ can be realized with a more modest music server and NUC. We just don't know yet. Wait for the dust to settle before committing significant $$$.

 

Hope that makes sense.

[rickca]

9 hours ago, rickca said:

Everyone with a SuperMicro motherboard, you need to read this.

Apple has already denied this story.

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, rickca said:

Apple has already denied this story.

The company has nothing to gain by giving the story credence. 

[Ralf11]

also read the denial very carefully - Apple says they did not find any hidden 'bugs' - NOT that they did a thorough search that would have found anything...

[Mark62]

5 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Well do you have a great power supply for it?  I know where you can get one that matches perfectly.  

Thanks, but I'm good on that.

[austinpop]

7 hours ago, rickca said:

Has anyone dropped by Innuos to compare the Statement with the SE and talk to Nuno?

 

@limniscate and I finally got some quiet time to chat with Nuno in the Innuos room. Key points:

1. The Statement MSRP is USD 13,750. Gulp.
2. OCXO clocking of both USB and Ethernet
3. Mobo clocking was not explored as they found increased incidence of random system crashes
4. No info yet on the standalone USB regenerator device for SE owners

Comparing the Statement to the SE on several tracks, both going directly to the DAC (Aqua La Scala, I believe - I misplaced my system list for the room), the improvement from the Statement over the SE was pretty obvious and not subtle. It's the usual clock effect - everything in sharper focus, instruments sound more real, more air and separation, a more holographic image.

 

Of course the question will be the relative performance of the SE+tX-USBultra+Ref10 combo to the Statement.

[str-1]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

Of course the question will be the relative performance of the SE+tX-USBultra+Ref10 combo to the Statement.

With what you heard from the Zenith Statement and given your experience with the tX-U+Ref10, can you imagine the regenerator/clock combo further elevating the Statement by very much?

[BigAlMc]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

• The Statement MSRP is USD 13,750. Gulp.
• OCXO clocking of both USB and Ethernet

 

Hey Rajiv - thanks for the report and hope you're enjoying the show.

 

It"s a funny one as I struggle to picture me agreeing to pay 14k for one component. It sounds completely nuts to me.

 

But then when you tally up the cost of a TX-USBUltra, a sCLK-OCX10, a decent PSU for each,, an AQVOX SE, another decent PSU, a 700 quid BNC cable and of course a handful of decent USB and LAN cables - well craperoo - I'm in the 14k ballpark and have spaghetti back on my plate. Shit!

 

Not gonna lose much sleep as all importantly my system sounds terrific. But with that in mind having experts like Innuos compile and voice the OCXO clocking of LAN and USB sounds like a practical approach as it avoids spaghetti and the ever present (paranoid audiophile) concern that a component combo or wire combo lacks synergy and is somehow holding the system back from achieving its full potential.

 

I suppose the upside is the flexibility to tinker and replace within the spaghetti. Uptones upcoming switch for example.

 

I don't suppose you noticed what USB and LAN cables Nuno was using for their demo?

 

Cheers,

Alan

[str-1]

2 hours ago, str-1 said:

With what you heard from the Zenith Statement and given your experience with the tX-U+Ref10, can you imagine the regenerator/clock combo further elevating the Statement by very much?

Sorry, was in a rush when I rattled off that rather short post on my iPad (how do you edit these?).

 

Thanks, Rajiv.  It seems from what you reported that Innuos are using a different system to what they used in London last weekend.  There they used KEF speakers and Chord Sarum T USB and power cables, and of course the M Scaler/Hugo TT 2 combo.  The demo room they used was also on the smallish size.  

 

Relieved to see you report on more air, separation and holographic image as these attributes did not stand out clearly for me in London with the system used there - then it was more about a cleaner sound with more depth, perhaps more naturalness.  But I did feel both Statement and SE would sound better properly setup in the home (even without the addition of tX-U and Ref10).

 

I too am thinking about the comparative cost of further improving the system around the Zenith SE and choosing instead to buy the Statement.  I certainly will not be commiting any funds to upgrading my standard spec tX-U, buying a Ref10 and all the appropriate cabling until I have had a home demo of the Statement, which likely won’t be for another two months at least.

 

 

 

[FredM]

3 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

But then when you tally up the cost of a TX-USBUltra, a sCLK-OCX10, a decent PSU for each,, an AQVOX SE, another decent PSU, a 700 quid BNC cable and of course a handful of decent USB and LAN cables - well craperoo - I'm in the 14k ballpark and have spaghetti back on my plate. Shit!

 

Exactly! Comparing the Statement with the SE 'plus' chain, prise wise it wouldn't be that much different. Or perhaps even in favour of the Statement (including all BNC- USB- Network- and power cables. Not to mention the PSU's, shelves, possible isolators, etc). 

 

Performance wise it'll be interesting to see how the two Innous setups will compare: one internal double (OXCO) clocked and tuned device, in comparison with a chain consisting external (OXCO) clocked devices. I wonder if a best practice design principle can be made up? (taking into account here that the Statement sits in the upper price level server group, there are less expensive options for a one box solution, i.e. TLS, PinkFaun, 432 EVO, ..)

 

(Ps Looking at the flexibility in upgrading (in favour for 'chain' approach ) and tidiness/minimal space (favour for one device approach) the differences are luckily much easier to determine)

 

edit: excuse me, I just forgot the Statement is a two box product, the message remains about the same

[rickca]

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

OCXO clocking of both USB and Ethernet

Do we know anything about what clocks Innuos is using?  I'm starting to wonder whether the external USB device for the SE will ever see the light of day.

[Blackmorec]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Do we know anything about what clocks Innuos is using?  I'm starting to wonder whether the external USB device for the SE will ever see the light of day.

Bear in mind that Innuos are releasing the Statement and significantly revamping their entire product line so its not surprising that there’s currently no bandwidth for a USB reclocking device. But the design and engineering must be just about done so its really only a matter of finalising things like casework and PS. I would imagine you’ll see something fairly soon after all the dust settles following the current round of new products. 

[rickca]

5 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

But the design and engineering must be just about done so its really only a matter of finalising things like casework and PS.

I just got this response from Nuno.

The USB reclocker board is already done as it's the same as used on the Statement - we designed it from the beginning to be used both internally and externally. 

The only reason it's not launched with the mk3 is the chassis to place the board and the power supplies. Our suppliers are already late providing chassis for the Statement/MK3 so we didn't want to burden them with another design to prevent further delays.

The external reclockers are important to us as they are a great upgrade path for existing customers, both SE or others. There's a big gap in price/performance between the MK3 and Statement and the reclockers help filling in this gap.

We are keen that existing customers can upgrade their solutions rather than having to trade them in - particularly in the case of the SE.
 

[str-1]

22 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Bear in mind that Innuos are releasing the Statement and significantly revamping their entire product line so its not surprising that there’s currently no bandwidth for a USB reclocking device. But the design and engineering must be just about done so its really only a matter of finalising things like casework and PS. I would imagine you’ll see something fairly soon after all the dust settles following the current round of new products. 

Nuno told me last week in London that he had still some final decisions to take on the external USB upgrade.  It’s not about the USB reclocker board, but about the other bits and pieces that go with that, which will determine what size case he puts everything in.  It’s very unlikely to be this year.

[mourip]

I looked on their web page just out of curiosity and found no mention of their statement device yet but did notice that everything but their entry level box was listed as "Sold Out".

 

I thought that BigAlMc's comments were perfect. For the non-tweaker a well made but expensive one box solution could actually save money and avoid the agony of system matching. Personally I find the DIY chase to be part of the fun.

[LTG2010]

9 hours ago, rickca said:

The USB reclocker board is already done as it's the same as used on the Statement - we designed it from the beginning to be used both internally and externally. 

I thought it was a PCIE USB card if its a reclocking board, most of you have the tx-USB Ultra.(Maybe Nuno means one and the same) The most benefit to the Zenith SE would be to fit a quality PCIE USB output, with OCXO clock. There's no space unless the top is taken off to mount it vertically, or some sort of riser cable could be used.