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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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Any availability dates? Tks

Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule>
SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45>

IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45>
etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen>

USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature.
 

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Thanks Romaz for the excellent post. It seems to me like coming back to a full circle separating server and renderer into two machines. We have to give credit to Sonore and especially @barrows. They all from day one keep emphasizing putting server far away from renderer. That is also what I have been doing from day one. I will never consider putting a server near my hifi equipments. My power server is in my study room and far far away from my listening room. 

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3 hours ago, Adyc said:

Thanks Romaz for the excellent post. It seems to me like coming back to a full circle separating server and renderer into two machines. We have to give credit to Sonore and especially @barrows. They all from day one keep emphasizing putting server far away from renderer. That is also what I have been doing from day one. I will never consider putting a server near my hifi equipments. My power server is in my study room and far far away from my listening room. 

 

Yeah, your reading far too much into Roy's post.  He's describing two different rooms with different systems.  In one room it's direct from server Innuous SE  to SOtM component to Chord DAC which he has two, Hugo 2 or DAVE, and a BlU MKII scaler.  The second room he is streaming from the Inuous SE to the NUC, basically a dual PC approach, which as he mentions has been around for some time.  The big change is the Network Switch between the dual PC setup.    Makes sense, since you want all your data and online service with Roon from your one main PC.    

We are lucky to have Roy try out and report on so many different components in different configuration so that we can gleam what will work in our own system plans and try them out on our own.

 

EDIT:  Roy actually sold the Innous SE and prefers the NUC so I'm confused what his current setup is in both rooms at this time.  The Apple mini for the main PC I guess in place of the Innous SE.  Regardless does it matter, Roy is going to keep trying and changing things around.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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7 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Not to worry, I mis-spoke.  John is laying out the board with BNC for the clock input. So carry on... 9_9

 

Do you have the layout ready so you could perhaps share how the different contacts are placed on the switch?

 

 

Main system
TAD D1000mk2, TAD M2500mk2, TAD CE-1, Ansuz Mainz 8 C2, Ansuz Darkz D-TC, 
Qobuz Studio -> Roon ROCK on NUC -> Uptone etherREGEN -> dCS Network Bridge -> AES/EBU -> DAC
HD Plex 200W PSU (4 rail for ISP fiber, router, etherREGEN and NUC)
 
Second system
Qobuz Studio -> Devialet Silver Phantom, Devialet Tree
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Are there any tweaks that can be applied to a MacBook, or is it a closed shop as far as fiddling is concerned? I got the largest power supply I could find, but that is about all

 

At the moment, I have most success streaming via wi-fi to a Devialet

The Cape Town Hi-Fi Club.  Achieve astonishing sound
Listening stuff:  Mercury Pi2, Devialet 440CI, B&W DB1, LF-8ba, 2 x Dachshunds
 

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14 hours ago, Adyc said:

Thanks Romaz for the excellent post. It seems to me like coming back to a full circle separating server and renderer into two machines. We have to give credit to Sonore and especially @barrows. They all from day one keep emphasizing putting server far away from renderer. That is also what I have been doing from day one. I will never consider putting a server near my hifi equipments. My power server is in my study room and far far away from my listening room. 

 

The only reason to put the server in a different room would be because of space or if it's noisy because of a fan.  Otherwise you end up running a longer ethernet cable which can potentially add noise.

 

10 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

Yeah, your reading far too much into Roy's post.  He's describing two different rooms with different systems.  In one room it's direct from server Innuous SE  to SOtM component to Chord DAC which he has two, Hugo 2 or DAVE, and a BlU MKII scaler.  The second room he is streaming from the Inuous SE to the NUC, basically a dual PC approach, which as he mentions has been around for some time.  The big change is the Network Switch between the dual PC setup.    Makes sense, since you want all your data and online service with Roon from your one main PC.    

We are lucky to have Roy try out and report on so many different components in different configuration so that we can gleam what will work in our own system plans and try them out on our own.

 

EDIT:  Roy actually sold the Innous SE and prefers the NUC so I'm confused what his current setup is in both rooms at this time.  The Apple mini for the main PC I guess in place of the Innous SE.  Regardless does it matter, Roy is going to keep trying and changing things around.

 

See my next post for thoughts on this.

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Here is another interesting idea for a diy naa endpoint but it only converts to i2s or spdif. 

https://www.engineered.ch/products/nmr/

 

Thay allso have upsample modules to 384kHz or DSD at 2.8224MHz or 5.6448MHz.

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

@romaz why use the NUC as an endpoint when the sMS-200ultra or the ultraRendu provide the same functionality?  Was it because there wasn’t one of those devices to compare against the NUC?  Are the hard drives on those devices noisier than the eMMC on the NUC?  The sMS and uR can be powered by an LPS-1.2 or SR7/4 with less power.

I’d like to know how the TLS Linux OS compares to Roon ROCK when Roon is upsampling.  Likewise with HQPlayer.  Finally, both streaming to an endpoint.

 

Actually the custom OS sits on the eMMC but is loaded to memory on the NUC.  I suspect the NUC, at least mine can be, powered by a LPS 1.2 sufficiently.  

Roy wants to fully use Roon, along with streaming from online to multiple rooms, I suspect, so his needs are a bit different than mine in that respect.  

You also have to take into consideration Roy's Chord products and how they play a role in server needs which are not going to be the same for someone not in the Chord family.

 

My take is that nothing really has changed, just more tools/components.  Clocking and power are still pivotal in any streaming design along with connecting chord preventive noise measures (shorter is better when possible).  And one needs to consider their system design on a case by case basis for best needs/design.

 

In my case, since I do not use Roon (a demanding program), stream from online or have more than one room needs, a single s-clk ex server (NUC in my case with tXUSBexp mod) with cybershaft master clock eventually feeding an m-scaler (consider that my endpoint) feeding a DAVE will be more than sufficient, maybe even overkill, if such a thing exists in audio.  

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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9 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

 

Actually the custom OS sits on the eMMC but is loaded to memory on the NUC.  I suspect the NUC, at least mine can be, powered by a LPS 1.2 sufficiently.  

Roy wants to fully use Roon, along with streaming from online, I suspect, so his needs are a bit different than mine in that respect.  

You also have to take into consideration Roy's Chord products and how they play a role in server needs which are not going to be the same for someone not in the Chord family.

 

My take is that nothing really has changed, just more tools/components.  Clocking and power are still pivotal in any streaming design.  And one needs to consider their system design on a case by case basis for best needs/design.

In my case, since I do not use Roon (a demanding program), stream from online or have more than one room needs, a single s-clk ex server (NUC in my case with tXUSBexp mod) with cybershaft master clock eventually feeding an m-scaler (consider that my endpoint) feeding a DAVE will be more than sufficient, maybe even overkill, if such a thing exists.  

 

Yes, and upsampling without an mscaler impacts the architecture significantly.  As I described in my Optane post, I made sacrifices from my previous low power build which I would rather not have.  I still need to understand if this NUC is a better option than an sCLK'd endpoint, especially if the NUC itself were sCLK'd.

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18 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Yes, and upsampling without an mscaler impacts the architecture significantly.  As I described in my Optane post, I made sacrifices from my previous low power build which I would rather not have.  I still need to understand if this NUC is a better option than an sCLK'd endpoint, especially if the NUC itself were sCLK'd.

 

I see where you are coming from.  Good questions which really can not be fully known without implementation and comparison.  You have to believe that a reclocked NUC (sCLK EX) is going to be better.  Question is, is it overkill, unnecessary for the cost to gain?  

My thought would be that Roy is using his BLU m-scaler in this instance in conjunction with the NUC, which would negate any poor clocking???  Which doesn't make sense either.  I'm thinking Roy isn't done modifying this NUC or finding a replacement.  In other words, it can be better.

(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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Well for now. I am staying on the single machine hqplayer dsd512 upsampling bandwagon. Maybe when we have the new Uptone switch and learn how best to deploy it I'll change my mind. I am open minded but skeptical that the impact of upstream processing can be eliminated. John, you have the tls switch, will you be experimenting?

 

A year ago I built a low power, j1900 based single machine Linux/roon rig for a friend. Given Roy's experience, the mini-itx motherboard and case will be replaced with a nuc using the motherboard and emmc memory Roy's describes above. It will be an interesting experiment and good preparation for later possibilities if warranted.

 

Gotta run, the mumetal shielding just arrived!

 

Larry

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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41 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Well for now. I am staying on the single machine hqplayer dsd512 upsampling bandwagon. Maybe when we have the new Uptone switch and learn how best to deploy it I'll change my mind. I am open minded but skeptical that the impact of upstream processing can be eliminated. John, you have the tls switch, will you be experimenting?

 

A year ago I built a low power, j1900 based single machine Linux/roon rig for a friend. Given Roy's experience, the mini-itx motherboard and case will be replaced with a nuc using the motherboard and emmc memory Roy's describes above. It will be an interesting experiment and good preparation for later possibilities if warranted.

 

Gotta run, the mumetal shielding just arrived!

 

Larry

Hi @lmitche,

Where did you buy the mu metal braided shield from and do you have the specs?

I found this one https://hollandshielding.com/Flexible-EMI-shielding-tube.

It shows also the shielding performance of E-field and H-field.

Also found this one but is not as effectieve in low fields, https://cdn.techflex.com/assets/pdfs/specification-sheets/fsn.pdf.

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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1 hour ago, RickyV said:

Hi @lmitche,

Where did you buy the mu metal braided shield from and do you have the specs?

I found this one https://hollandshielding.com/Flexible-EMI-shielding-tube.

It shows also the shielding performance of E-field and H-field.

Also found this one but is not as effectieve in low fields, https://cdn.techflex.com/assets/pdfs/specification-sheets/fsn.pdf.

 

Here's a good source:  http://custommagneticshielding.magneticshield.com/viewitems/magnetic-shielding-for-wiring-applications/co-netic-aacableshield

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RickyV said:

Hi @lmitche,

Where did you buy the mu metal braided shield from and do you have the specs?

I found this one https://hollandshielding.com/Flexible-EMI-shielding-tube.

It shows also the shielding performance of E-field and H-field.

Also found this one but is not as effectieve in low fields, https://cdn.techflex.com/assets/pdfs/specification-sheets/fsn.pdf.

Ś

 

3 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

Mumetal is a blend of nickel and iron  and I really do not understand what is mucopper described by the holland shielding company. 

 

I think the copper shield advertised are effective for RFI interférences for EMI that is another story as you have to use a mumetal foil which is usually quite expensive. 

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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23 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

mumetal foil which is usually quite expensive

 

The AA Cable Shield is made by the company that manufactures MuMetal.  The shield is made from Co-NETIC, which I believe uses the same alloys as MuMetal, but you may want to double check before buying.  The WBS-250 is $11.35/ft. and the WBS-375 is $12.60/ft.

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Adyc said:

... I will never consider putting a server near my hifi equipments. My power server is in my study room and far far away from my listening room. 

"Isolation by Distance"

 

also...  Did you see my conversation with someone (barrows?) about using opposite phase?

 

Using a different column on your electrical panel will often achieve that w/o the need to call an electrician.  Dunno if it applies to old panels...

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