A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[BigGuy]

14 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

I have seen DC barrel plugs similar to the Oyaides (I have samples of the ones the French Audiophonics had made), but have not seen any counterfeits.

 

However, as I posted about 18 months ago, Oyaide did change to a new, smaller style that I find near-impssoble to use for wire of any decent gauge.  Here is a pic of the original (upper-right; it's a used one) and the short and cramped current ones of the past 18 months (lower-left).

 

The metal gauge of the ground-strap/strain-relief is also much thinner on the new ones, but the issue to focus on is just how close the center pin is to where the strap/relief is.  There is near zero room to solder the ve- wires without touching the center.

 

The Belden 9418 shielded star-quad wire we use for the cables we supply with the JS-2 is 4 conductors of #18. Pairing #18 equals about a #15--plus the shield tied at one end.  Now you understand why the new ones are impossible for us.  It is tight enough with larger original ones!

 

I had been buying hundreds (over 1300 actually) of the originals for a couple of years when Oyaide informed of the change and sent me samples of the new ones.  I freaked out, bought the last of the originals and begged them to make more for us.  They agreed--if I bought 1,000 all at once, and they jacked up the price a bit.  And I had to wait 4 months for them.

 

I always promised Oyaide that we would not resell the plugs raw--that we would only sell them on terminated cables.  And mostly the cables are sold only with our high-current JS-2 LPS.  And I have kept that promise. (Okay I let a handful go to Larry, but he also made me a nice cable. )

 

Oyaide has a fine USA master importer--Joe Cohen at The Lotus Group--and when we happened to chat about 6 months ago I mentioned my direct relationship for just the DC plugs.  He was not very happy about it, but then he is to to my knowledge bringing in their DC plugs, and I assured him we were not competing with him in any way.

 

Now I am running low on stock and need to contact Oayide for another expensive 1,000 piece buy.  I just have to hope they can/will do it again--or we are screwed.

 

 

With regards to the current short Oyaide DC-2.5G and DC-2.1G plugs, I do not think there is any shortage.  They are all over eBay for $14.99 each (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oyaide-DC-2-5G-24K-Gold-Plated-DC-Power-Connector-plug-high-qyality-Japan-/142211490482), and even Oyaide's own Akihabara store still lists them (https://oyaide.com/catalog/catalogsearch/result/?q=DC-2.5G).  Maybe Patrick did not look very hard.

 

That's all I know about the Oyaide plug situation at the moment.  And please, don't anyone ask me to sell them raw plugs! 

 

Ciao,

--Alex C.

Any idea how to get the Oyaide link to view in English?

 

I can understand the 648Yen price which I believe translates to ~USD6.00.  Quite reasonable comparatively speaking unless this is for 1,000s of pieces or freight is a profit center?!

[Johnseye]

13 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

Any idea how to get the Oyaide link to view in English?

 

I can understand the 648Yen price which I believe translates to ~USD6.00.  Quite reasonable comparatively speaking unless this is for 1,000s of pieces or freight is a profit center?!

 

It appears I'm unable to purchase directly from Oyaide's site.  They only list Japanese shipping locations.  I've reached out to Joe at the Lotus Group for more info.

 

Yes, $6 per piece is reasonable, but I suspect it costs them $1 to make.  The $15-20 you see on ebay shows the markup from Oyaide's retail cost.  I doubt they make anything on freight.  

[Solstice380]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

Thanks Alex.  I'll probably order the shorty Oayide's you linked from eBay and make it fit.  It looks like they ship from Japan, although the other CA member said he tested those from HK and they appear legit.  Too bad there isn't a connector with the same quality as Oayide.

 

 

About a year ago I found a distributor in Ontario, Canada that had the Oyaide barrel connectors.  I’m flying back home today and will see if I can find the link to their site.  

[Superdad]

On 8/2/2018 at 3:58 PM, Superdad said:

Oyaide has a fine USA master importer--Joe Cohen at The Lotus Group--and when we happened to chat about 6 months ago I mentioned my direct relationship for just the DC plugs.  He was not very happy about it, but then he is to to my knowledge bringing in their DC plugs, and I assured him we were not competing with him in any way.

 

Oh dear, I see that I left out a critical word in the sentence above!  To my knowledge Joe is NOT importing the Oyaide DC barrel plus at this time.  I may give him a call and suggest he do so since the DIY market for them here in the USA seems to be heating up.  Yet as far as I know, The Lotus Group is strictly an importer for a number of brands--supplying USA dealers--and I do not think they sell end user direct at all (though there are some silver wire and ribbons of theirs order-able in a small shopping section of their site).

 

Anyway, sorry for any confusion I caused.  Seems like eBay for $14.99 each is still the best bet for DIYers. 

[elan120]

On 7/5/2018 at 12:38 PM, Johnseye said:

 

 

 

Yes, I have an LPS 1.2 and 1.  The specs are a little different so can support different deivces, and I was considering the SOtM master clock at the time which would have afforded a discount.

 

Since you three have some experience with the Hirose connector, do you think it will work with the Gotham Star Quad ?  My goal will be to replace all DC cables with it.  Also, can you crimp it with a coax crimper or does it need something special?

 

 

Thanks.  I have a similar silver cable from SOtM.  Not as good as that one though, the gauge is smaller.  I may just JSSG 360 that cable if the Hirose is too difficult to work with.

@Johnseye, not sure if you have tried to work with Hirose HR10A connector in the end, so I thought I will share what I did.  It is more challenging to work with this connector, but with a little patience, I have mine done earlier to replace the SOtM silver cable I got when I got the sPS500.  Compare with this Gotham cable, Gotham wins...richer sounding yet with better details.  If you are interested in Gotham JSSG 360, now I see Ghent also carry it, so you have a choice.

 

As always, here are couple pictures.

 

Very tight space to work with:

 

Pin 1 and 4 is for V+, pin 2 and 3 is for V- (sPS500 configuration - check with DVM to be sure)

 

Finished cable:

 

[Solstice380]

19 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

About a year ago I found a distributor in Ontario, Canada that had the Oyaide barrel connectors.  I’m flying back home today and will see if I can find the link to their site.  

 

Crap!  The Ontario connection was for Furutech A/C stuff.  but have you found VH Audio?  They still show them on their website at ~US$20.

 

https://www.vhaudio.com/oyaide-dc.html

 

[Johnseye]

13 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Oh dear, I see that I left out a critical word in the sentence above!  To my knowledge Joe is NOT importing the Oyaide DC barrel plus at this time.  I may give him a call and suggest he do so since the DIY market for them here in the USA seems to be heating up.  Yet as far as I know, The Lotus Group is strictly an importer for a number of brands--supplying USA dealers--and I do not think they sell end user direct at all (though there are some silver wire and ribbons of theirs order-able in a small shopping section of their site).

 

Anyway, sorry for any confusion I caused.  Seems like eBay for $14.99 each is still the best bet for DIYers. 

 

I was hopeful for a minute.

[Johnseye]

11 hours ago, elan120 said:

@Johnseye, not sure if you have tried to work with Hirose HR10A connector in the end, so I thought I will share what I did.  It is more challenging to work with this connector, but with a little patience, I have mine done earlier to replace the SOtM silver cable I got when I got the sPS500.  Compare with this Gotham cable, Gotham wins...richer sounding yet with better details.  If you are interested in Gotham JSSG 360, now I see Ghent also carry it, so you have a choice.

 

As always, here are couple pictures.

 

Very tight space to work with:

 

Pin 1 and 4 is for V+, pin 2 and 3 is for V- (sPS500 configuration - check with DVM to be sure)

 

Finished cable:

 

 

This is excellent.  I just received my cable.  Once I build the DC 2.1 cables I'll try this one.  Thank you very much again.

[Johnseye]

5 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

Crap!  The Ontario connection was for Furutech A/C stuff.  but have you found VH Audio?  They still show them on their website at ~US$20.

 

https://www.vhaudio.com/oyaide-dc.html

 

 

Yes, I did see their site.  I was trying to avoid $20 per plug since they sell for $6 on Oyaide's site.

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, Johnseye said:

Yes, I did see their site.  I was trying to avoid $20 per plug since they sell for $6 on Oyaide's site.

 

Yeah, well I bought 1,000 of them (admittedly the better original size) and paid more than $6 each.    I think $15/ea. on eBay is about the best you will do.

[Solstice380]

20 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Yes, I did see their site.  I was trying to avoid $20 per plug since they sell for $6 on Oyaide's site.

 

Hey, somebody’s got to support the economy! ?

[Cortes]

This might be a non-sense, but just wondering whether it is possible to connect the sCLK-EX clock board into a raspberry board, like the Allo Usbridge. The raspberry is much simpler and underpowered than a PC mobo, and at the end might be a cleaner options with less hassle. 

 

 

[Johnseye]

18 hours ago, Cortes said:

This might be a non-sense, but just wondering whether it is possible to connect the sCLK-EX clock board into a raspberry board, like the Allo Usbridge. The raspberry is much simpler and underpowered than a PC mobo, and at the end might be a cleaner options with less hassle. 

 

 

 

I would think it could be done.  Check with May at SOtM.

[Johnseye]

On 8/5/2018 at 6:54 AM, Solstice380 said:

 

Hey, somebody’s got to support the economy! ?

 

Yes, the Hong Kong or Japanese economy. 

[Cortes]

58 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

I would think it could be done.  Check with May at SOtM.

 

much to explore, It might be even simpler: allo USBridge->  tx-usbUltra -> DAC. 

In this way the output of the 'Pi' would be regenerated with the sCLK-EX clocks.  However, for this route is simpler a single sms-200 ultra. 

 

BTW: someone has compared laptop->tx-usbUltra (+ low noise PS)-> DAC, vs. laptop -> ethernet -> sms-200 Ultra (+ low noise PS)-> DAC. ?.  The first has the advantage of using a full computer,  where for  instance amazon music app works, the second has the advantage of isolation but more limited software. 

[ElviaCaprice]

1 hour ago, Cortes said:

 

much to explore, It might be even simpler: allo USBridge->  tx-usbUltra -> DAC. 

In this way the output of the 'Pi' would be regenerated with the sCLK-EX clocks.  However, for this route is simpler a single sms-200 ultra. 

 

There is an sCLK EX clocking board in each Ultra component.  You could do this and have replaced any clocks with leads from the Ultra to the mobo.  This would give you the best of both worlds.

[Johnseye]

Review of Optane as an OS drive and memory.  Sub reviews of DSD upsampling with HQPlayer and Holo Spring Level 3

 

It's been a few months since I made multiple changes to my system.  Among those were a REF 10, Spring DAC, cabling and an SOtM modified motherboard.  Because so many changes occurred within a short amount of time I held back on sharing my opinions until I could take it all in and discern what each specific component did to impact the overall sound.  I think I finally have it all sorted out.  Some changes have been positive, but not all.  This was a bit of an experiment because you don't know what you haven't heard.  I believe I now have things in a very good place.

 

Optane - A motherboard with capabilities to support Optane and high performing processors

 

@lmitche 's post on the impact of an Optane drive started me thinking.  I was interested by the theory of low latency and its impact on performance.  I had read where low latency had brought a positive outcome to sound quality.  I had also been frustrated with my Celeron motherboard.  That board was modified by SOtM but the processor never had enough power to upsample with HQPlayer at the resolutions I wanted.  It also performed poorly when adding music to the Roon library, including when I restored a backup.  Because of these reasons I searched for a motherboard that could support Optane with at least the 200 series Intel chipset.  It also needed a PCIe slot and dual NICs in case I wanted to bridge as well as conform to a SFF to fit my case.  I decided on the ASRock Z270M-ITX/ac.  I physically removed the wireless hardware, tested it by installing Windows with Roon/HQPlayer then shipped it off to SOtM for modification of its system and dual NIC clocks.  I have recently found the two onboard NICs with this mobo are long in the tooth so not supported with Windows 2016.  For this reason alone I do not recommend this motherboard.  If you have any intention to run Windows 2016 in core mode these NICs will not work.  I can get them to work in GUI mode, but only after loading compatible drivers in an alternate method which is impossible in core.

 

I had to make two additional sacrifices from my previous low power mobo build.  My previous board had a DC in which I could feed directly from my SR7.  This board requires a 24 pin ATX so I added an HDPlex 400W HiFi DC-ATX adapter.  I have shielded the cabling to this adapter as well as applied 3M EMI/RF adhesive shielding to the adapter itself.  My Hynes SR7 is feeding the HDPlex adapter with 19v of power.  Secondly I had to add a fan.  I tried using the i7 7700K processor with a passive heatsink connected to the case chassis but I couldn't even get it to install Windows with that config.  It heated up too much.  So I added a silent Noctua fan and a fan noise filter that sits between the fan and board.  The filter I bought was from eBay which competes with the SOtM version, however the SOtM version was out of stock.  I'm sure these two changes impact the noise level to a certain extent, but it's difficult to know exactly how much.  When I refer to noise level, I don't mean what you can hear coming out of the PC itself, I mean how it impacts the sound quality.  As with most of my components, I put 3M EMI/RF adhesive shielding on specific chips.  For this board only the RAM and Optane was covered.  The chassis of this server is covered internally with the same 3M adhesive.

 

I spent a few weeks listening to music with Windows 2016 server installed on the Optane as a hard drive.  I have used Roon with HQPlayer for playback of music from Tidal and a NAS.  I use Audiophile Optimizer on the OS.  The NAS and this server are attached to a OCXO switch from The Linear Solution.  I then added an Intel X25-E SLC SSD with the SOtM SATA II filter.  An Uptone LPS-1 is directly powering the X25-E at 5v.  I suspect the direct power from the LPS-1 has a positive impact.  After listening with this config for a week or so I added the Optane drive as memory.  This pairs with the X25-E working in tandem to reduce latency.  I listened with this config for another month or so.  Then I switched back to the Optane as a hard drive for Windows listened for a day, then back to the X25-E, then X25-E with Optane pair, then back to X25-E.

 

My subjective opinion after these listening tests is that the Optane introduces noise.  This noise has a negative effect on sound quality in that it adds a harder edged digital tint to the sound.  This results in listening fatigue, higher treble and reduced bass.  The music sounds less organic and less natural to my ears.  The combination of X25-E with Optane paired is more natural, less harsh and closer to the X25-E on its own.  The X25-E on its own is much quieter to where it almost has a muting effect after listening with the Optane.  Gain can be increased without fatigue while listening with the X25-E by comparison.  I honestly question whether latency is an issue to where the Optane provides a positive benefit remedying that issue when compared to the noise it introduces.

 

DSD Upsampling with the Holo Spring Level 3 and HQPlayer

 

I added a Holo Spring Level 3 DAC a few months ago because I wanted to hear what DSD512 upsampling sounded like.  This was the primary driver for the mobo upgrade.  There have been a lot of positive things said about this DAC and DSD512.  I had never been very impressed with DSD as all the recordings I had heard sounded muted or veiled when compared to PCM.  This is a common complaint of DSD and to my ears it is audible.  Some DACs are better at handling DSD and my previous Audio Alchemy could only process DSD64.  The Spring as a NOS DAC with HQPlayer handling the filtering and upsampling is supposed to be one of the best at handling DSD up to 512.

 

It took the Spring a month or so to really break in.  Once it did the soundstage in terms of depth (dimension), accuracy of image and frequency representation stood out and was an improvement from the Audio Alchemy DAC.  I have upsampled everything, including PCM recordings, to DSD512 through HQPlayer.  The server has no problem at doing this with minimum latency set for the ASIO driver with all hard drive configurations.  I have also upsampled all PCM to 384 while all DSD gets upsampled to 512.  This is HQPLayer's Auto setting.  After listening to DSD512 I understand why it's been praised.  As far as DSD is concerned it gets digital music closer to a natural, analog sound.  My only criticism of it is that some energy or dynamics is lost.  There is still a faint softness which when compared to 384 PCM is a little muffled or muted.  512 is much less so than 64.  I never tried resolutions in between.  At this point I enjoy upsampling PCM as PCM and DSD as DSD.  This also allows me to compare the two formats on a regular basis as I have many recordings in both formats.  I did buy a few DSD256 recordings from NativeDSD.  I think I can hear a difference in upsampling 256 from 64 recordings, but it is very subtle and I need to spend more time before forming a firm conclusion.

 

Final thoughts

 

I am only making a guess here in why some may like the sound quality from the Optane as a hard drive for Windows.  My guess is that it adds some energy or dynamics into DSD upsampling.  There is a compliment with those in my opinion as DSD can benefit from a little edge.  This is a very subjective opinion as there are so many variables involved, including people themselves.

 

If I were to do this over again, knowing what I know now, I would try to find a motherboard that supported a processor capable of upsampling DSD512, with a DC in, that didn't require a fan.  I looked for this thoroughly in the past without much luck, but I think I could get by with using a lesser processor than the i7-7700K.  I would be more careful about NIC compatibility, especially with Windows 2019 server out in a few months.  I think having the ability to upsample to DSD512 is a worthwhile feature, but I would want to reduce noise inputs at all costs.  I would not make Optane a requirement, although I suspect most new boards are now supporting it.  This experiment has taught me that low power is extremely beneficial.  Everything that @romaz learned and shared along his discovery path was accurate and validated in my listening environment.

 

The REF10 was an excellent addition.  I think its cost is high for the benefit it provides, but there isn't much competition.  That money is better spent on speakers if someone's in the market, but its benefit is on par with the sCLK-EX.  The improvement in SQ is positive.  I would also continue to modify the motherboard with the sCLK.  The ability to utilize the REF10 in sync with the network, system, tX-USBexp and tX-USBultra clocks is clearly beneficial.  Until a motherboard with high quality clocks that can be tied to a master clock is produced, this is an excellent cost effective solution.

 

[Quadman]

40 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

The X25-E on its own is much quieter to where it almost has a muting effect after listening with the Optane.  Gain can be increased without fatigue while listening with the X25-E by comparison. 

Thank you so much @Johnseye I was waiting for your review and as far as I know you are the only one to actually compare both optane and SLC SSD.  I have been in the SLC SSD camp (Same Intel X25E 64GB) ever since @romaz reported on its much improved SQ.  I also added the Sotm Sata II filter and felt if offered some benefit as well.  I too power the SSD with LPSU's (my DIY Sigma S11 at 7v followed by 2- 1A LT3045 boards in series (6V>5V).  I have upgraded all DC power cables to Gotham Gac 4/1 ultra pro (after trying and really liking PoE Cat 7 and Cat 8 cables).  I made my Gotham cables so I can play with shielding variations soldering dupont connectors to the inner shield and outer shield, and keeping the shields separated.  This way I can run a dual JSSG (inner to inner, outer to outer) or easily switch to a JSSG 360 as everyone raves about here.  I am still playing with shielding schemes to report which shielding method I prefer.

 

I had a feeling that the SLC SSD would be quieter as the SQ I now get is simply breath taking.  Speakers (as big as mine are) just flat out disappear.  I am left with just this sound field, as thou I am actually on stage with them.   Wide and deep is the stage with very solid, real and palpable images within.  Energy can just explode from any part of the stage as that musician plays his instrument.  I have never heard sound like this from a 2 channel stereo before.

 

Coincidently I just spent the last week modifying my Phono stages (pass Xono, and Dynavector PH100 current based step up).  I was improving the PSU's of these 2 devices adding much higher quality diodes, and in the dynavector replacing diodes, opamps and a few capacitors.  I fired this up this past Friday my TT is a SME30mk2, with SME Vd arm and dynavector XV1s cartridge.  Certainly a better than average analog rig.  3 listens in on vinyl (after 2 years with zero vinyl listening, just up sampled DSD512) it certainly is pleasant and at times excellent, but a least in the early stages of these mods burning in, no match for my DSD512 rig.  Time will tell as I let the phono preamps burn in.   

 

Point being as a community we have taken digital playback to extremely high levels.  This past year has taught me that we are probably just starting to reach the potential of what digital holds.  I can't wait to see what future improvements lie ahead.  Exciting times we are in.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

Review of Optane as an OS drive and memory.  Sub reviews of DSD upsampling with HQPlayer and Holo Spring Level 3

 

It's been a few months since I made multiple changes to my system.  Among those were a REF 10, Spring DAC, cabling and an SOtM modified motherboard.  Because so many changes occurred within a short amount of time I held back on sharing my opinions until I could take it all in and discern what each specific component did to impact the overall sound.  I think I finally have it all sorted out.  Some changes have been positive, but not all.  This was a bit of an experiment because you don't know what you haven't heard.  I believe I now have things in a very good place.

 

Optane - A motherboard with capabilities to support Optane and high performing processors

 

@lmitche 's post on the impact of an Optane drive started me thinking.  I was interested by the theory of low latency and its impact on performance.  I had read where low latency had brought a positive outcome to sound quality.  I had also been frustrated with my Celeron motherboard.  That board was modified by SOtM but the processor never had enough power to upsample with HQPlayer at the resolutions I wanted.  It also performed poorly when adding music to the Roon library, including when I restored a backup.  Because of these reasons I searched for a motherboard that could support Optane with at least the 200 series Intel chipset.  It also needed a PCIe slot and dual NICs in case I wanted to bridge as well as conform to a SFF to fit my case.  I decided on the ASRock Z270M-ITX/ac.  I physically removed the wireless hardware, tested it by installing Windows with Roon/HQPlayer then shipped it off to SOtM for modification of its system and dual NIC clocks.  I have recently found the two onboard NICs with this mobo are long in the tooth so not supported with Windows 2016.  For this reason alone I do not recommend this motherboard.  If you have any intention to run Windows 2016 in core mode these NICs will not work.  I can get them to work in GUI mode, but only after loading compatible drivers in an alternate method which is impossible in core.

 

I had to make two additional sacrifices from my previous low power mobo build.  My previous board had a DC in which I could feed directly from my SR7.  This board requires a 24 pin ATX so I added an HDPlex 400W HiFi DC-ATX adapter.  I have shielded the cabling to this adapter as well as applied 3M EMI/RF adhesive shielding to the adapter itself.  My Hynes SR7 is feeding the HDPlex adapter with 19v of power.  Secondly I had to add a fan.  I tried using the i7 7700K processor with a passive heatsink connected to the case chassis but I couldn't even get it to install Windows with that config.  It heated up too much.  So I added a silent Noctua fan and a fan noise filter that sits between the fan and board.  The filter I bought was from eBay which competes with the SOtM version, however the SOtM version was out of stock.  I'm sure these two changes impact the noise level to a certain extent, but it's difficult to know exactly how much.  When I refer to noise level, I don't mean what you can hear coming out of the PC itself, I mean how it impacts the sound quality.  As with most of my components, I put 3M EMI/RF adhesive shielding on specific chips.  For this board only the RAM and Optane was covered.  The chassis of this server is covered internally with the same 3M adhesive.

 

I spent a few weeks listening to music with Windows 2016 server installed on the Optane as a hard drive.  I have used Roon with HQPlayer for playback of music from Tidal and a NAS.  I use Audiophile Optimizer on the OS.  The NAS and this server are attached to a OCXO switch from The Linear Solution.  I then added an Intel X25-E SLC SSD with the SOtM SATA II filter.  An Uptone LPS-1 is directly powering the X25-E at 5v.  I suspect the direct power from the LPS-1 has a positive impact.  After listening with this config for a week or so I added the Optane drive as memory.  This pairs with the X25-E working in tandem to reduce latency.  I listened with this config for another month or so.  Then I switched back to the Optane as a hard drive for Windows listened for a day, then back to the X25-E, then X25-E with Optane pair, then back to X25-E.

 

My subjective opinion after these listening tests is that the Optane introduces noise.  This noise has a negative effect on sound quality in that it adds a harder edged digital tint to the sound.  This results in listening fatigue, higher treble and reduced bass.  The music sounds less organic and less natural to my ears.  The combination of X25-E with Optane paired is more natural, less harsh and closer to the X25-E on its own.  The X25-E on its own is much quieter to where it almost has a muting effect after listening with the Optane.  Gain can be increased without fatigue while listening with the X25-E by comparison.  I honestly question whether latency is an issue to where the Optane provides a positive benefit remedying that issue when compared to the noise it introduces.

 

DSD Upsampling with the Holo Spring Level 3 and HQPlayer

 

I added a Holo Spring Level 3 DAC a few months ago because I wanted to hear what DSD512 upsampling sounded like.  This was the primary driver for the mobo upgrade.  There have been a lot of positive things said about this DAC and DSD512.  I had never been very impressed with DSD as all the recordings I had heard sounded muted or veiled when compared to PCM.  This is a common complaint of DSD and to my ears it is audible.  Some DACs are better at handling DSD and my previous Audio Alchemy could only process DSD64.  The Spring as a NOS DAC with HQPlayer handling the filtering and upsampling is supposed to be one of the best at handling DSD up to 512.

 

It took the Spring a month or so to really break in.  Once it did the soundstage in terms of depth (dimension), accuracy of image and frequency representation stood out and was an improvement from the Audio Alchemy DAC.  I have upsampled everything, including PCM recordings, to DSD512 through HQPlayer.  The server has no problem at doing this with minimum latency set for the ASIO driver with all hard drive configurations.  I have also upsampled all PCM to 384 while all DSD gets upsampled to 512.  This is HQPLayer's Auto setting.  After listening to DSD512 I understand why it's been praised.  As far as DSD is concerned it gets digital music closer to a natural, analog sound.  My only criticism of it is that some energy or dynamics is lost.  There is still a faint softness which when compared to 384 PCM is a little muffled or muted.  512 is much less so than 64.  I never tried resolutions in between.  At this point I enjoy upsampling PCM as PCM and DSD as DSD.  This also allows me to compare the two formats on a regular basis as I have many recordings in both formats.  I did buy a few DSD256 recordings from NativeDSD.  I think I can hear a difference in upsampling 256 from 64 recordings, but it is very subtle and I need to spend more time before forming a firm conclusion.

 

Final thoughts

 

I am only making a guess here in why some may like the sound quality from the Optane as a hard drive for Windows.  My guess is that it adds some energy or dynamics into DSD upsampling.  There is a compliment with those in my opinion as DSD can benefit from a little edge.  This is a very subjective opinion as there are so many variables involved, including people themselves.

 

If I were to do this over again, knowing what I know now, I would try to find a motherboard that supported a processor capable of upsampling DSD512, with a DC in, that didn't require a fan.  I looked for this thoroughly in the past without much luck, but I think I could get by with using a lesser processor than the i7-7700K.  I would be more careful about NIC compatibility, especially with Windows 2019 server out in a few months.  I think having the ability to upsample to DSD512 is a worthwhile feature, but I would want to reduce noise inputs at all costs.  I would not make Optane a requirement, although I suspect most new boards are now supporting it.  This experiment has taught me that low power is extremely beneficial.  Everything that @romaz learned and shared along his discovery path was accurate and validated in my listening environment.

 

The REF10 was an excellent addition.  I think its cost is high for the benefit it provides, but there isn't much competition.  That money is better spent on speakers if someone's in the market, but its benefit is on par with the sCLK-EX.  The improvement in SQ is positive.  I would also continue to modify the motherboard with the sCLK.  The ability to utilize the REF10 in sync with the network, system, tX-USBexp and tX-USBultra clocks is clearly beneficial.  Until a motherboard with high quality clocks that can be tied to a master clock is produced, this is an excellent cost effective solution.

 

 

John,

 

Thanks very much for your report. In addition to the valuable experiences you've shared, you are possibly the first to bridge the "high-power (i7-7700 or greater) CPU for HQPlayer DSD512" world with the world of super clocks (OCXO, sCLK-EX, Ref 10) and high quality PSUs (SR-7 DRXL). My apologies to anyone else who's also reported on this - please correct me if there are other experiences.

 

Your insights should prove very useful. This is the dilemma with the extreme upsampling (HQPlayer to DSD512), isn't it? To get the benefit brings the requirement of higher wattage, ATX regulation, and a fan, all of which potentially add noise, which is the opposite of the low-powered approach many of us have followed. 

 

Do you still have the ability to compare your low-powered server with this? Or did you have to harvest your sCLK-EX from the old setup? 

 

Clearly there are many paths to audio nirvana. It's an exciting time to be a computer audiophile! ?

[Johnseye]

30 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

John,

 

Thanks very much for your report. In addition to the valuable experiences you've shared, you are possibly the first to bridge the "high-power (i7-7700 or greater) CPU for HQPlayer DSD512" world with the world of super clocks (OCXO, sCLK-EX, Ref 10) and high quality PSUs (SR-7 DRXL). My apologies to anyone else who's also reported on this - please correct me if there are other experiences.

 

Your insights should prove very useful. This is the dilemma with the extreme upsampling (HQPlayer to DSD512), isn't it? To get the benefit brings the requirement of higher wattage, ATX regulation, and a fan, all of which potentially add noise, which is the opposite of the low-powered approach many of us have followed. 

 

Do you still have the ability to compare your low-powered server with this? Or did you have to harvest your sCLK-EX from the old setup? 

 

Clearly there are many paths to audio nirvana. It's an exciting time to be a computer audiophile! ?

 

I still have the motherboard, but the sCLK was modified to support the new board's frequencies.  Maybe when the next sCLK revision is released.  I would not be able to effectively upsample DSD with that board.  Possibly PCM could be upsampled to 384.

 

These efforts have demonstrated to my ears that the removal of extraneous noise from my system provides a more positive effect than upsampling.  Both combined is better provided the sacrifices aren't too great.

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, Quadman said:

I had a feeling that the SLC SSD would be quieter as the SQ I now get is simply breath taking.  Speakers (as big as mine are) just flat out disappear.  I am left with just this sound field, as thou I am actually on stage with them.   Wide and deep is the stage with very solid, real and palpable images within.  Energy can just explode from any part of the stage as that musician plays his instrument.  I have never heard sound like this from a 2 channel stereo before.

 

This is exactly what I have experienced and I believe is a result of noise reduction.

 

1 hour ago, Quadman said:

Coincidently I just spent the last week modifying my Phono stages (pass Xono, and Dynavector PH100 current based step up).  I was improving the PSU's of these 2 devices adding much higher quality diodes, and in the dynavector replacing diodes, opamps and a few capacitors.  I fired this up this past Friday my TT is a SME30mk2, with SME Vd arm and dynavector XV1s cartridge.  Certainly a better than average analog rig.  3 listens in on vinyl (after 2 years with zero vinyl listening, just up sampled DSD512) it certainly is pleasant and at times excellent, but a least in the early stages of these mods burning in, no match for my DSD512 rig.  Time will tell as I let the phono preamps burn in.   

 

Maybe a new phono stage?  Not sure what your preamp is but that certainly is a nice TT.  I am more than pleased with my analog SQ and enjoy listening to it in a different way than vinyl.  I don't like flipping discs all the time however.

 

You're absolutely correct in that digital audio has come a long way for those of us who are making these efforts.

[austinpop]

12 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Both combined is better provided the sacrifices aren't too great.

 

Yes exactly. I would add another caveat - for DACs that are known to benefit from upsampling.

 

Since not all DACs sound better with upsampled inputs...

[Johnseye]

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes exactly. I would add another caveat - for DACs that are known to benefit from upsampling.

 

Since not all DACs sound better with upsampled inputs...

 

Very good point.  It would be pointless for any Chord DAC with the mscaler.  It's also important to remember that upsampling and filtering are different.  All DACs except NOS filter, but they do not upsample.

[Quadman]

10 minutes ago, austinpop said:

This is the dilemma with the extreme upsampling (HQPlayer to DSD512), isn't it? To get the benefit brings the requirement of higher wattage, ATX regulation, and a fan, all of which potentially add noise, which is the opposite of the low-powered approach many of us have followed. 

Although what you say has to be true to some extent.  My HTPC case with AMD 1800X, seasonic 850w titanium PSU with 5 case cooling fans and CPU fan makes magic.  The blackness of the stage is surreal.  Added noise is not something anyone listening to it would ever consider.  Logic says it can be improved so someday I'll make a LPSU based board where I can connect all fans except maybe the CPU fan to LPSU to see if I can further lower/improve what I have.  Those SMPS seasonics, especially the titanium series measure really low noise considering they are SMPS.  Regardless DSD512 makes it all worth it, of course my Dac the T+A is well known to be excellent with 512, which I can confirm truly is.

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, Johnseye said:

Review of Optane as an OS drive and memory.  Sub reviews of DSD upsampling with HQPlayer and Holo Spring Level 3

 

It's been a few months since I made multiple changes to my system.  Among those were a REF 10, Spring DAC, cabling and an SOtM modified motherboard.  Because so many changes occurred within a short amount of time I held back on sharing my opinions until I could take it all in and discern what each specific component did to impact the overall sound.  I think I finally have it all sorted out.  Some changes have been positive, but not all.  This was a bit of an experiment because you don't know what you haven't heard.  I believe I now have things in a very good place.

 

Optane - A motherboard with capabilities to support Optane and high performing processors

 

@lmitche 's post on the impact of an Optane drive started me thinking.  I was interested by the theory of low latency and its impact on performance.  I had read where low latency had brought a positive outcome to sound quality.  I had also been frustrated with my Celeron motherboard.  That board was modified by SOtM but the processor never had enough power to upsample with HQPlayer at the resolutions I wanted.  It also performed poorly when adding music to the Roon library, including when I restored a backup.  Because of these reasons I searched for a motherboard that could support Optane with at least the 200 series Intel chipset.  It also needed a PCIe slot and dual NICs in case I wanted to bridge as well as conform to a SFF to fit my case.  I decided on the ASRock Z270M-ITX/ac.  I physically removed the wireless hardware, tested it by installing Windows with Roon/HQPlayer then shipped it off to SOtM for modification of its system and dual NIC clocks.  I have recently found the two onboard NICs with this mobo are long in the tooth so not supported with Windows 2016.  For this reason alone I do not recommend this motherboard.  If you have any intention to run Windows 2016 in core mode these NICs will not work.  I can get them to work in GUI mode, but only after loading compatible drivers in an alternate method which is impossible in core.

 

I had to make two additional sacrifices from my previous low power mobo build.  My previous board had a DC in which I could feed directly from my SR7.  This board requires a 24 pin ATX so I added an HDPlex 400W HiFi DC-ATX adapter.  I have shielded the cabling to this adapter as well as applied 3M EMI/RF adhesive shielding to the adapter itself.  My Hynes SR7 is feeding the HDPlex adapter with 19v of power.  Secondly I had to add a fan.  I tried using the i7 7700K processor with a passive heatsink connected to the case chassis but I couldn't even get it to install Windows with that config.  It heated up too much.  So I added a silent Noctua fan and a fan noise filter that sits between the fan and board.  The filter I bought was from eBay which competes with the SOtM version, however the SOtM version was out of stock.  I'm sure these two changes impact the noise level to a certain extent, but it's difficult to know exactly how much.  When I refer to noise level, I don't mean what you can hear coming out of the PC itself, I mean how it impacts the sound quality.  As with most of my components, I put 3M EMI/RF adhesive shielding on specific chips.  For this board only the RAM and Optane was covered.  The chassis of this server is covered internally with the same 3M adhesive.

 

I spent a few weeks listening to music with Windows 2016 server installed on the Optane as a hard drive.  I have used Roon with HQPlayer for playback of music from Tidal and a NAS.  I use Audiophile Optimizer on the OS.  The NAS and this server are attached to a OCXO switch from The Linear Solution.  I then added an Intel X25-E SLC SSD with the SOtM SATA II filter.  An Uptone LPS-1 is directly powering the X25-E at 5v.  I suspect the direct power from the LPS-1 has a positive impact.  After listening with this config for a week or so I added the Optane drive as memory.  This pairs with the X25-E working in tandem to reduce latency.  I listened with this config for another month or so.  Then I switched back to the Optane as a hard drive for Windows listened for a day, then back to the X25-E, then X25-E with Optane pair, then back to X25-E.

 

My subjective opinion after these listening tests is that the Optane introduces noise.  This noise has a negative effect on sound quality in that it adds a harder edged digital tint to the sound.  This results in listening fatigue, higher treble and reduced bass.  The music sounds less organic and less natural to my ears.  The combination of X25-E with Optane paired is more natural, less harsh and closer to the X25-E on its own.  The X25-E on its own is much quieter to where it almost has a muting effect after listening with the Optane.  Gain can be increased without fatigue while listening with the X25-E by comparison.  I honestly question whether latency is an issue to where the Optane provides a positive benefit remedying that issue when compared to the noise it introduces.

 

DSD Upsampling with the Holo Spring Level 3 and HQPlayer

 

I added a Holo Spring Level 3 DAC a few months ago because I wanted to hear what DSD512 upsampling sounded like.  This was the primary driver for the mobo upgrade.  There have been a lot of positive things said about this DAC and DSD512.  I had never been very impressed with DSD as all the recordings I had heard sounded muted or veiled when compared to PCM.  This is a common complaint of DSD and to my ears it is audible.  Some DACs are better at handling DSD and my previous Audio Alchemy could only process DSD64.  The Spring as a NOS DAC with HQPlayer handling the filtering and upsampling is supposed to be one of the best at handling DSD up to 512.

 

It took the Spring a month or so to really break in.  Once it did the soundstage in terms of depth (dimension), accuracy of image and frequency representation stood out and was an improvement from the Audio Alchemy DAC.  I have upsampled everything, including PCM recordings, to DSD512 through HQPlayer.  The server has no problem at doing this with minimum latency set for the ASIO driver with all hard drive configurations.  I have also upsampled all PCM to 384 while all DSD gets upsampled to 512.  This is HQPLayer's Auto setting.  After listening to DSD512 I understand why it's been praised.  As far as DSD is concerned it gets digital music closer to a natural, analog sound.  My only criticism of it is that some energy or dynamics is lost.  There is still a faint softness which when compared to 384 PCM is a little muffled or muted.  512 is much less so than 64.  I never tried resolutions in between.  At this point I enjoy upsampling PCM as PCM and DSD as DSD.  This also allows me to compare the two formats on a regular basis as I have many recordings in both formats.  I did buy a few DSD256 recordings from NativeDSD.  I think I can hear a difference in upsampling 256 from 64 recordings, but it is very subtle and I need to spend more time before forming a firm conclusion.

 

Final thoughts

 

I am only making a guess here in why some may like the sound quality from the Optane as a hard drive for Windows.  My guess is that it adds some energy or dynamics into DSD upsampling.  There is a compliment with those in my opinion as DSD can benefit from a little edge.  This is a very subjective opinion as there are so many variables involved, including people themselves.

 

If I were to do this over again, knowing what I know now, I would try to find a motherboard that supported a processor capable of upsampling DSD512, with a DC in, that didn't require a fan.  I looked for this thoroughly in the past without much luck, but I think I could get by with using a lesser processor than the i7-7700K.  I would be more careful about NIC compatibility, especially with Windows 2019 server out in a few months.  I think having the ability to upsample to DSD512 is a worthwhile feature, but I would want to reduce noise inputs at all costs.  I would not make Optane a requirement, although I suspect most new boards are now supporting it.  This experiment has taught me that low power is extremely beneficial.  Everything that @romaz learned and shared along his discovery path was accurate and validated in my listening environment.

 

The REF10 was an excellent addition.  I think its cost is high for the benefit it provides, but there isn't much competition.  That money is better spent on speakers if someone's in the market, but its benefit is on par with the sCLK-EX.  The improvement in SQ is positive.  I would also continue to modify the motherboard with the sCLK.  The ability to utilize the REF10 in sync with the network, system, tX-USBexp and tX-USBultra clocks is clearly beneficial.  Until a motherboard with high quality clocks that can be tied to a master clock is produced, this is an excellent cost effective solution.

 

Hi John,

 

Thanks for your review of the Optane card vs the intel x25-e slc SSD. I have never heard the intel slc SSD, but I am not surprised to hear it sounds better then the Optane in your setup. That would be consistent with what I hear from others. I have tested the Optane against two other configurations, both externally powered (mlc and tlc?) Samsung and micron SSDs and a sata connected hard drive. The Optane in a motherboard nvme m.2 slot easily beat all of the above, but the Optane in a pcie card and direct to cpu slot, avoiding the PCH altogether, is much better. Unfortunately I don't think this configuration is possible with your asrock micro-atx rig.

 

So we still have one Optane config to test against the slc SSD. I bet they are really close. If you want to send a lpsu, lps-1 and slc SSD over here I'd be happy to compare the two.

 

I agree with Quadman.  You should consider separate power sources for the 24 pin motherboard atx input via the hdplex and the 12 volt cpu power. This is a very worthwhile mod even with an atx smps powering the cpu.

 

FYI, I've spent the past few weeks testing Ethernet switches, Cisco 2960???, Netgear FS105 and Dlink DES105.  All powered with sigma 11s and one, two or three lt3045s in series with jsgt. I tested the switches behind a 5 volt $18 TRENDnet TW100-S4W1CA router used to create a one node subnet for my music server. In the end, I ditched all the switches as the router alone sounds best. I look forward to testing the new Uptone switch.

 

Mumetal braided cable shielding arrives next week which will be interesting.

 

Best,

 

Larry