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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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6 minutes ago, flkin said:

Hi Rajiv, try the PoE. It's cheap and easy and doesn't need any DIY skills. 

 

Parts required:

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LX1WL2Z

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00QV1F0RU

 

Best of all, it's a clear step-up from my old star quad Canare with Oyaide connectors. 

 

Something I've been working on myself for a test, try connecting the unused ethernet ends of both ends of the PoE using a spare ethernet cable you may have around. You'd need female/female ethernet connectors like this to help :

 

https://www.amazon.com/PLUSPOE-Coupler-Ethernet-Inline-Connector/dp/B076C1F38Z/ref=mp_s_a_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1529169225&sr=8-16&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=ethernet+connector+female+to+female&dpPl=1&dpID=416s9a2v7rL&ref=plSrch

 

This will form a loop of the unused wires and should act as a pseudo-JSSG. I've found further improvements with this technique. Far easier than any DIY cable ? for me at least. 

 

 

Thanks, I'll try it. Your pseudo-JSSG idea sounds very clever!

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11 minutes ago, flkin said:

Hi Rajiv, try the PoE. It's cheap and easy and doesn't need any DIY skills. 

 

Parts required:

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LX1WL2Z

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00QV1F0RU

 

Best of all, it's a clear step-up from my old star quad Canare with Oyaide connectors. 

 

Something I've been working on myself for a test, try connecting the unused ethernet ends of both ends of the PoE using a spare ethernet cable you may have around. You'd need female/female ethernet connectors like this to help :

 

https://www.amazon.com/PLUSPOE-Coupler-Ethernet-Inline-Connector/dp/B076C1F38Z/ref=mp_s_a_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1529169225&sr=8-16&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=ethernet+connector+female+to+female&dpPl=1&dpID=416s9a2v7rL&ref=plSrch

 

This will form a loop of the unused wires and should act as a pseudo-JSSG. I've found further improvements with this technique. Far easier than any DIY cable ? for me at least. 

 

One question: Are the 2 ends of the POE injector  bidirectional, i.e. interchangeable? IOW, I should be able to plug the male 5.5x2.1 of one of the POE adapters into the output of my PSU, then on the other end connect my existing Audio Sensibility DC cable into the female 5.5x2.1 of the 2nd POE adapter, and the other end into my device?

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1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

To be honest, when it comes to DC cables, even after all my forays into Canare starquad and then JSSG, I have ended up finding my silver Audio Sensibility and Paul Hynes cables  to sound the best so far.

 

So I have been waiting for the dust to settle to see where the consensus on DC cables ends up between Gotham JSSG 360, POE, etc. I know several people have the silver cables I mentioned, so I am hoping someone will compare and post their findings.

 

I guess I am so happy with the sound of my system these days, I'm feeling a bit lazy to try all these DIY mods.

 

49 minutes ago, mozes said:

I also have the same conclusion. The quality and the gauge of the conductor is very important. I have done many many comparisons over the last years and my favourite conductor for DC cables is OCC copper. I don’t have anything less than 13 or 14 AWG. Yes it matters even for 30cm cables!

 

I plan on wrapping my Hynes cables in the EMI/RF sheath.  Best of both.

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19 hours ago, austinpop said:

So by hybrid, do you mean one one layer of JSSG 360 as braid, then heatshield, and then one layer as copper?

That would work too I'll try that. I was thinking initially to add a single layer of copper foil and 2 layers braid eg. braid- foil- insulation-braid, but I suppose its all down to experimentation, I think EMI is more a problem for us than RFI, I'll get some braid ordered :)

The downside to this is that manufacturers fine tune their audio cables to a specific 'sound' signature and by this we are altering this balance but if it's an improvement then that's great.

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1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

One question: Are the 2 ends of the POE injector  bidirectional, i.e. interchangeable? IOW, I should be able to plug the male 5.5x2.1 of one of the POE adapters into the output of my PSU, then on the other end connect my existing Audio Sensibility DC cable into the female 5.5x2.1 of the 2nd POE adapter, and the other end into my device?

 

Yes I believe so. The PoE set comes in two pairs of two males and two female DC 5.5x2.1mm connectors so if your power sockets are this size it should work. You can decide to add the PoE in the chain or replace your existing DC cable. 

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@lmitche  Before using the Gotham 11301 star quad cable  , i did use the multimeter to understand how the different shield on this quite complex cable are working .

The result are quite puzzling and i will appreciate if you can shed some light on my observation .

 

Shield 1 and 2 are two layers of tiny 1/10 mm coper wire wounded in opposite direction insuring 100% coverage - those 2 layers are in contact with no insulation in between .

Shield 3 is a non woven polyester sheet with aluminium in it - It is non conductive

Each of the individual wire ( 4 total ) has a shield 4 non woven polyester sheet with aluminium in it and then a shield 5  of one layer of 1/10 mm copper wire insuring 100% coverage .

 

To the ohmmeter  no contact between shield 1-2 and shield 5 for pink and red wire .

However for the white wire and the translucid wire i got a 10 and 50 ohm measurement 

 

I even cut a piece of wire to check those results again because i fell the cable may be defective and i got exactly the same results .

 

Very strange results and i do not know if you got similar results .

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11 hours ago, austinpop said:

To be honest, when it comes to DC cables, even after all my forays into Canare starquad and then JSSG, I have ended up finding my silver Audio Sensibility and Paul Hynes cables  to sound the best so far.

 

@romaz posted something about the conductivity of silver and copper etc. last year

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=49&tab=comments#comment-645953

 

On 3/30/2017 at 11:10 AM, romaz said:

Clean power is always important but line resistance is maybe even more important only because the PSRR of well-built components is so high these days.  I pride myself in having clean power (dedicated 20A line, Shunyata Denali line conditioner, High Fidelity Cables power distributor, SR grounding block) and yet cables still make a HUGE difference in my system, not from the standpoint of lowering noise but minimizing line resistance.  Absolutely, the shorter the cable the better because shorter cables have less line resistance but there is much more to it than just cable length.  Here is an excerpt from one of my posts on Head-Fi a few months ago that discusses some of the things I consider when evaluating a cable:

 

1)  Conductor:  This can range from tin to iron, brass, gold, copper, silver and graphene (the fastest electrical conductor known to man).  Here are the relative conductivity of various conductors:

 

Material IACS (International Annealed Copper Standard)

Ranking

Metal

% Conductivity*

1

Silver (Pure)

105%

2

Copper

100%

3

Gold (Pure)

70%

4

Aluminum

61%

5

Brass

28%

6

Zinc

27%

7

Nickel

22%

8

Iron (Pure)

17%

9

Tin

15%

10

Phosphor Bronze

15%

11

Steel (Stainless included)

3-15%

12

Lead (Pure)

7%

13

Nickel Aluminum Bronze

7%

 

Graphene isn't listed but it is claimed to have a conductivity 100x of copper.  Note that silver is 5% more conductive than copper and that purity matters.  UP-OCC grade purity is the purest form of silver or copper that is commercially available (guaranteed to be 99.99997% pure).  Unfortunately, silver is much more expensive than copper and UP-OCC grade is much more expensive than standard OFC (oxygen-free copper).  What does increased conductivity get you?  Decreased line resistance.

 

2)  Conductor gauge:  Most basic computers come with 18g power chords.  Audiophile power chords for low power digital components seem to range from 12-16 gauge while chords designed for high current devices like amplifiers and power distributors are as large as 6 gauge.  What happens as wire gauge gets bigger?  Once again, line resistance goes down and large conductor gauge is especially important for the conduction of lower frequencies.  

 

3)  Dielectric:  This is an area of controversy and there isn't consensus on what is real and what is hype.  In short, dielectrics are designed to function as insulators against other conductors within a cable but also against its outer environment.  One premise held is that the only perfect dielectric is a vacuum (negative air pressure) and that any other material used as a dielectric will have some negative impact on SQ due to skin effect.  With alternating currents running through a conductor, it has been said that lower frequencies (bass) travel at the inner most core of a conductor while also occupying the largest cross section of a conductor as it travels down that conductor.  This is the premise on why large conductors are so important for bass transmission.  The higher frequencies (midrange and treble) travel toward the outer edges of the conductor.  With the perfect cable where you have a conductor that is highly conductive and a dielectric that has zero impact, then the high and low frequencies arrive at their destination at exactly the same time (meaning perfect timing).  Because it is the highest frequencies that travel at the outer edges of a conductor, the dielectric used will have impact on these higher frequencies potentially resulting in treble and even midrange smearing but also timing issues.  This is often where cable companies get creative and why some cables can cost so much.

 

Here are examples of the dielectric constants of various materials:

 

Air (vacuum) 1.0

Cotton 1.3

Wood 1.4

Teflon (PTFE) 2.1

Polypropylene 2.2

Kevlar 3.5

Neoprene 4.0

Distilled water 34

 

Teflon and polypropylene are the most commonly used dielectrics because of their durability and heat resistance.  Certain manufacturers have gone to cotton as a primary dielectric (i.e. DHC, Zenwave) and I believe their results speak for themselves.  Once again, what is the impact of the dielectric on the conductor that supposedly leads to this purported smearing?  It has to do with the build-up of an opposing electrical charge but ultimately, this is once again a form of line resistance.

 

There are other factors like cable geometry, solid-core vs stranded wire and litz configuration which I won't get into here but the strategy for their use is to reduce line resistance.

 

Finally, there is shielding.  All cables are shielded but some shields are especially designed to repel or mitigate EMI and this is the concept behind cables designed for "digital" gear with the idea that it is our digital gear that is most sensitive to EMI.  While important for certain components, it has been my observation that well-made components with high PSRR have less need for exotic shielding.

 

Unfortunately the conductivity of both DC plugs and jacks are the weakest links

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/29458-ultracap™-lps-1-listening-impressions-thread/?page=13&tab=comments#comment-611953

 

On 12/28/2016 at 11:57 PM, MikeyFresh said:

They are brass, albeit gold plated, but certainly suspect at $20 a piece in terms of conductivity. Mechanically they are seemingly machined to a tight tolerance and thus superior to a generic plug, they have a reassuring fit.

 

Curious why they didn't at least use an electrical grade phosphor bronze, though I can understand why straight copper is probably a little too soft for this application being difficult/expensive to machine without defects at that small a dimension.

 

Various companies are doing 3.5mm plugs in phosphor bronze now, maybe the forthcoming/rumored new version Oyaide DC plug will be exactly that.

 

Then again, the 2.1mm jacks on the LPS-1 and microRendu are probably also brass.

 

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10 hours ago, mozes said:

I also have the same conclusion. The quality and the gauge of the conductor is very important. I have done many many comparisons over the last years and my favourite conductor for DC cables is OCC copper. I don’t have anything less than 13 or 14 AWG. Yes it matters even for 30cm cables!

 

What's the largest gauge from your collection of DC cables so far? Do we have any male plugs that are compatible with 12 AWG wires? I could get some bulk wires of Wireworld Platinum Electra 7 (with OCC solid silver conductors) or Silver Electra 7 (with ultra-pure OCC silver-clad copper conductors) locally

 

http://www.wireworldcable.com/power-conditioning-cords.html

Quote

Qty: 20   Gauge: 12AWG  |  3 sq. mm

 

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2 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

What's the largest gauge from your collection of DC cables so far? Do we have any male plugs that are compatible with 12 AWG wires? I could get some bulk wires of Wireworld Platinum Electra 7 (with OCC solid silver conductors) or Silver Electra 7 (with ultra-pure OCC silver-clad copper conductors) locally

 

http://www.wireworldcable.com/power-conditioning-cords.html

 

The Oyaide DC plug can handle a max of 14AWG so beyond that you need to go over the edge and get rid of the outer barrel connector and literally butcher the plug. I don’t recommend it as it is not safe and the cable doesn’t look neat as well.

the largest experimental DC cable that I built is 10 AWG, I have cables that range from 10AWG all the way to 18AWG and I find that gauge comes first followed by conductor quality. JSSG 360 tweak takes DC cables to another level. 

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8 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Unfortunately the conductivity of both DC plugs and jacks are the weakest links

What brings you to that conclusion? Connectors are typically made of materials with lower conductivity than pure copper in order to achieve the required mechanical properties. These metal parts are, however, very small compared to the length of a cable, and they are often thicker than the wires they connect. The resistance of a good connector is negligible compared to 1 metre of typical copper wire.

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8 hours ago, mozes said:

The Oyaide DC plug can handle a max of 14AWG so beyond that you need to go over the edge and get rid of the outer barrel connector and literally butcher the plug. I don’t recommend it as it is not safe and the cable doesn’t look neat as well.

the largest experimental DC cable that I built is 10 AWG, I have cables that range from 10AWG all the way to 18AWG and I find that gauge comes first followed by conductor quality. JSSG 360 tweak takes DC cables to another level. 

 

Have you tried JSSG 360 on your Audio Sensibility silver DC cable?

 

 

 

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On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 12:07 AM, austinpop said:

Just wanted to pop in and say I am back from my travels, and hope to be more active. Meanwhile I have a lot of catching up to do with all the JSSG 360 findings! 

 

It will be interesting to compare JSSG 360 treated cables in multiple domains, like:

  • DC
  • clocks
  • USB
  • Ethernet

with their expensive "reference" counterparts. For example:

  1. I know the JSSG 360 Lush outperformed the original by a clear margin.
  2. But, does a JSSG 360 DC cable, like the Gotham or Supra, equal or outperform silver cables like the Audio Sensibility or Paul Hynes?
  3. Does a JSSG 360 Ethernet cable equal or outperform the likes of the SOtM dCBL-Cat7?
  4. Does a JSSG 360 Pasternack clock cable equal or outperform a Habst?

Sadly, the whole JSSG 360 layering process of braid/heatshield/braid is a bit outside my threshold of DIY skill. However, I'm open to loaners, and I'd be happy to compare with the reference cables I mentioned, since I have/own all of them.

Mindful of just how critical the cables for 10MHz reference clocks are supposed to be, I too would be very interested in what the possible influence of the JSSG modification might be on a "standard" cable like the Pasternack might be.  (or indeed the super cheap internal clock cables used inside SOtM kit and similar)  @JohnSwenson - do you have any insights with respect to this?

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5 minutes ago, Confused said:

Mindful of just how critical the cables for 10MHz reference clocks are supposed to be, I too would be very interested in what the possible influence of the JSSG modification might be on a "standard" cable like the Pasternack might be.  (or indeed the super cheap internal clock cables used inside SOtM kit and similar)  @JohnSwenson - do you have any insights with respect to this?

 

Indeed.

 

I have managed to reproduce @elan120‘s mods, with lots of his help - ?- on my tX using just-right-length internal cables to replace the overly long ones SOtM uses. Over the next week or so, I should be able to compare with Eric’s tX (representing the default cables) to determine if this is audible.

 

i really want to JSSG 360 my Pasternack clock cable, my silver Audio Sensibility cable, and my Paul Hynes DC3FSXL. As y’all know, I’m not a big DIY guy, but I’m willing to give it a shot, but would love links to the correct braid, heatshrink and outer sleeve. Any other advice and guidance would be most welcome, either here or offline via PM.

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On 5/30/2018 at 9:57 PM, lmitche said:

Tinned copper sleeving is used for USB and networks cables. Gotham for DC cables. Yes Gotham sounds better then Canare.

 

When you say sounds better than Canare, I suppose you haven’t tested against the Canare made with JSSG ? (From Ghent)

 

BTW. Has anyone asked Ghent to make this cable ?

 

And why not add another drain wire in addition ?

 

 

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On 6/13/2018 at 7:58 PM, Bricki said:

IMAG0248.thumb.jpg.c4e0d4183d2e49a4b233f52e0b97a728.jpg

 

Supra cat8 JSSG 360 used as Ethernet cable to sMS-200 

 

Larger image size/larger sound stage 

 

Increase in depth/layering. More space between instruments on the front to back plane. 

 

Even tighter more effortless bass and more tuneful and separate from the other instruments. 

 

A highly recommended mod - bang for buck is off the charts ??

 

Hi Bricki,

 

Very impressive. Please help me understand the process:

  1. what tinned copper braid did you use? Link please?
  2. what diameter?
  3. Did you use the same diameter for both layers, or did you go to a larger dia for the outer layer?
  4. Did you use heatshrink as the insulating layer, or something else? Keep in mind I don't have a heat gun, but can buy one. Recommendations welcome.
  5. Did you put a final (insulated/non conductive) sleeve over the outer braid, or is the outer tinned copper braid the outer sleeve now?

Sorry for these stupid questions - this is still a bit daunting to me.

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7 hours ago, mansr said:

What brings you to that conclusion? Connectors are typically made of materials with lower conductivity than pure copper in order to achieve the required mechanical properties. These metal parts are, however, very small compared to the length of a cable, and they are often thicker than the wires they connect. The resistance of a good connector is negligible compared to 1 metre of typical copper wire.

 

 Typical 5.5 x 2.1/2.5mm D.C. connectors are rubbish and lose their mating qualities with repeated insertions. This also applies to the type with the split inner projection which closes up and goes high resistance, and you may need to rotate the plug to get continuity.

I have replaced several of mine with 3 pin mini XLR plugs and sockets.

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

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29 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 Typical 5.5 x 2.1/2.5mm D.C. connectors are rubbish and lose their mating qualities with repeated insertions. This also applies to the type with the split inner projection which closes up and goes high resistance, and you may need to rotate the plug to get continuity.

I have replaced several of mine with 3 pin mini XLR plugs and sockets.

 

I entirely agree.

 

I also have problems with some USB connections particularly to my iFi iDSD Micro ... the stupid OTG connector is loose (I use an AQ Dragontail). Its really hard to find OTG to USB 2.0 cables (not Micro!!!).

 

RCA isn't too bad but XLR is much better and Neutrik makes great connectors for chump change.

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20 minutes ago, jabbr said:

I also have problems with some USB connections particularly to my iFi iDSD Micro ... the stupid OTG connector is loose (I use an AQ Dragontail). Its really hard to find OTG to USB 2.0 cables (not Micro!!!).

The USB mini connector is flawed. The micro connector is a much better design. I'm a bit confused, however. The iDSD Micro doesn't have a mini-USB connector, nor does the Dragontail.

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12 minutes ago, mansr said:

The USB mini connector is flawed. The micro connector is a much better design. I'm a bit confused, however. The iDSD Micro doesn't have a mini-USB connector, nor does the Dragontail.

 

No, the Micro has an OTG connector on the input and typically you plug a Type A USB into the computer. OTG to Type A (full sized) are not common. Female Type A connectors can be used but the outer diameter means the fit into the OTG socket is variable, hence the problem...

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On 4/16/2018 at 9:38 PM, austinpop said:

 

Hi Bruce, sorry for the delay. I just got back from AXPONA.

 

 

am using Jim's 6 AWG wire. Luckily I only needed a few feet, and got in under the wire - so to speak. :P 

 

 

Correct on both counts.

Thanks, Rajiv.  If all goes well by end of day Tues I will have 2 dedicated circuits.  Jim could never get his special wire but with his counsel I will be using 6/2 with 19 twisted strands and a solid core #10 ground wire.Really looking forward to listening.

Separately, have experienced a nice little SQ bump adding 2 Bybee iQSE blocks. I placed one on top of each of the LSP-1.2s powering the SoTM Ultra-tx and the clocked, modded switch. It took a 24 hour burn in. 

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2 minutes ago, Bruce Orr said:

Thanks, Rajiv.  If all goes well by end of day Tues I will have 2 dedicated circuits.  Jim could never get his special wire but with his counsel I will be using 6/2 with 19 twisted strands and a solid core #10 ground wire.Really looking forward to listening.

Separately, have experienced a nice little SQ bump adding 2 Bybee iQSE blocks. I placed one on top of each of the LSP-1.2s powering the SoTM Ultra-tx and the clocked, modded switch. It took a 24 hour burn in. 

 

Nice!

 

What outlet(s) are you going to use? Did you buy those from Jim?

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