A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

Hi Frank,

 

Well my Multimeter says otherwise so I'd recommend you get a piece from Lewis and check it out yourself.

 

Also, our mutual friend has a 2 foot piece of this same cable powering an Iso Regen at his place.

 

Larry

 

 

Frank,

 

I forgot to say our mutual friend is also using a spdif cable with the two sleeved tinned copper JSSG 360 treatment.

 

Go have a listen.

 

Larry

[Bricki]

12 hours ago, lmitche said:

Hi Bricki,

 

For some cables I have used clear shrink wrap for insulation, on others shrink wrap + a layer of techflex for more distance between layers.  The Lush cable is a stiff cable to start, and adding the three to four more layers of stuff makes it much worse. The techflex makes things a bit looser in a good way.

 

At the ends I have just let run the insulation short by about 3/8 of an inch so the two layers of tinned copper naturally join under the pressure of one last short, 3 inch,  layer of shrinkwrap on top.

 

Sorry, but pictures will have to wait as I am not at home.

 

Larry

Thank you very much for this extra explanation ?. I am definitely getting a clearer picture in my mind of how to do this.?

[Bricki]

Does anyone know what diameter tinned copper braid is best suited for going over a usb a connector?? ... That is the fattest part of the Curious cable... Usb a connector is 12mm width and 12" braid is 12.7mm....but if the braid can expand over the connector then I can go a bit smaller than 12" braid?? 

[d_elm]

5 minutes ago, Bricki said:

Does anyone know what diameter tinned copper braid is best suited for going over a usb a connector?? ... That is the fattest part of the Curious cable... Usb a connector is 12mm width and 12" braid is 12.7mm....but if the braid can expand over the connector then I can go a bit smaller than 12" braid?? 

3/8" braid can expand to fit over the connectors.

[Bricki]

Sorry that was meant to be 1/2" braid ?

[Bricki]

1 minute ago, d_elm said:

3/8" braid can expand to fit over the connectors.

OK thanks for that ?

[rafa]

On 5/31/2018 at 7:03 AM, internethandle said:

 

Unfortunately I don't have a solution for you, but this same issue occurs with my Paul Pang TCXO-modded ASUS motherboard with Intel graphics from time to time. It does seem to stabilize over time and happen less and less frequently, but I have not found any reliable way of either provoking it into happening or getting it to stop other than waiting it out. My suggestion, then, would be to keep the PC on 24/7 and see if the problem eventually either lessens or stops. Restarting the computer or doing some other major system change (re-installing Windows, for instance) always seemed to make it happen with the highest amount of frequency, which was very annoying, but after leaving my audio PC on 24/7 for a number days it (usually) would stop happening. Still, every once in awhile it will re-appear without warning for a few days (less frequent drop outs than if I did a system change of some sort, but still there and annoying), and I again just have to wait it out until it stabilizes again.

So maybe the only solution is to put additional, passive cooled NVidia/AMD graphic card and use it instead?

[Hauser]

Regarding the Gotham cable, there appears to be an insulating layer of cotton between the shielding layer for each individual conductor and all the other layers.

 

Martin.

[Hauser]

Looking at the Gotham site, I'm wondering whether the Gac 4/1 Road may give a similar benefit to the Pro.  Road is smaller diameter, almost same size conductors, has polyurethane coating, fewer shields so easier to dress and much cheaper.

 

Martin.

[BigGuy]

I have ordered a sample to dissect and measure as Larry suggests.  Given his proven track record with JSSG and now the 360, I do not doubt his findings re their effect on SQ and will implement 360 on future cable treatment.

 

I find it strange that Gotham USA could have got the construction details incorrect.  Perhaps a matter of semantics?!

[seeteeyou]

On 5/27/2018 at 7:10 AM, tboooe said:

I wonder how the 2960 compares to the Cisco SG300 series which I have.  

 

Cisco SG??? Series should be meant for the small business market, OTOH they're targeting their Catalyst Series (namely 2960 and 3560) at the enterprise sector.

 

So far the latter one seemed to have the "magic sauce" baked right in while nobody actually confirmed if that were the same deal for the former one

 

http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/cisco-switch?page=8

Quote

I have a Cisco SG110 24HP switch sitting awaiting installation. How, in your view, does this product compare to the (widely recommended) 2960?

 

Quote

Hi, I honestly don’t know... I haven’t evaluated it... I suspect however it may not bring the same benefits as the catalyst models... as it is probably built differently to a lower specification as it is designed and marketed to a low cost market ... but I am speculating... certainly in my experience not all Cisco devices sound as good as the 2960/3560 series Catalyst switches

 

FYI - the "magic sauce" might be explained according to the same gentleman who happened to be a pro in a very specific field
 

Quote

 

I am also a network design engineer with a background in system and RF engineering, and in my line of work it makes total sense... by the way you are right it nots specific to the 2960 including the new models, but it does seem specific to the various Catalyst switches I have tried including layer 3 Catalyst switches... The EM response to physical differential line driver layouts and the PHY clock stability and its lack of intermodulation products would appear to be helping. The effects or otherwise are taking place before (or after depending on your perspective) of the ASIC(s)

 

What I have found in my experience is that it  is nothing or very little to do with the devices powersupply. But being an engineer I observe (and listen) and then look to evaluate why one experiences an outcome. I believe it was myself who first discovered this ‘benefit’ of using, as it was then, a 2960 Fast Ethernet switch device a few years back, when I discovered it by accident when I was was narrowing down an issue of Ethernet intermodulation PHY layer clock frequency products from a particular home network switch product affecting stereo decoding birdies on my FM tuner... and I investigated further.

 

i have also found and analyzed sound differences between different media servers based in inter Ethernet frame timing consistency... I had shared my findings with Naim... and well what I can say is that the network  streaming module design of the newer devices has changed.... its good to have an open mind and the where with all and tools to investigate further ... you never know little discoveries have the possibility of improving our Hi-Fi products further...

 

 

In other words, that's definitely a great baseline to start with and the price is certainly right. Now let's take a quick look at the specs and we could learn more about the DC input voltages for RPS 675 (Table A-4 Specifications for the Catalyst 3560-24TS-S Switch)

 

https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/switches/lan/catalyst3560/hardware/installation/guide/3560hig/hgspecs.pdf#page=3

Quote

12 V @ 5 A

 

In other words, maybe we could find a way to feed that with 10 piece of LT3045

 

https://www.mpaudio.net/product-page/hc-hpuln

 

Granted the ones with 24 ports ain't fanless to begin with, while their fanless 8-port model would come with a different PSU

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CISCO-341-0207-02-Power-Supply-for-Cisco-WS-C3560-8-/232627232528

https://www.surplustechmart.com/lab-test-equipment/power-supplies-loads/cisco-341-0207-02-power-supply-for-cisco-ws-c3560-8.html

 

Most likely there will be one clock @ 25 MHz plus another one for the ASIC itself. Let's say we're replacing both of them with something like OCXO, there's a chance that we could beat most audiophile offerings (until we're getting something new from UpTone Audio) without having to spend that much in the first place.

[Solstice380]

On 5/31/2018 at 2:41 PM, lmitche said:

Hi Frank,

 

Well my Multimeter says otherwise so I'd recommend you get a piece from Lewis and check it out yourself.

 

Also, our mutual friend has a 2 foot piece of this same cable powering an Iso Regen at his place.

 

Larry

 

 

 

@BigGuy   Polyester is an insulator.  I’m surprised by the owner’s response.  He should know that.   And I would be curious why all the shields continually in electrical contact would be a design decision.

[BigGuy]

2 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

@BigGuy   Polyester is an insulator.  I’m surprised by the owner’s response.  He should know that.   And I would be curious why all the shields continually in electrical contact would be a design decision.

I understand that the polyester itself is an insulator but the description is "aluminized...both sides".  Apparently the fabric can be metalized without any bleed through from either side as Larry's Multimeter confirms.

 

I have samples being shipped so that I can evaluate other Gotham offerings.

[internethandle]

On 6/1/2018 at 12:01 AM, rafa said:

So maybe the only solution is to put additional, passive cooled NVidia/AMD graphic card and use it instead?

 

I've considered that, yes. I'm not sure, however, of whether or not this would have a positive or negative impact on sound quality. It stands to reason that if the CPU is not being tasked with also serving as a basic GPU via onboard Intel Graphics that this may help SQ, but if you're using a "audiophile" USB3 output PCIe card (as both your friend and I seem to be - I also use a Paul Pang card), a video card theoretically may add "noise" to the PCI bus/compete for PCI resources/lanes. Also, as far as I know, using a video card does not completely disable Intel Graphics, and there's not, on most motherboards, a way to even do so, so it's still running in some fashion, just perhaps in a less intensive way.  Really no clear way to know without trying it out, and I haven't ever seen a definitive answer from any music server builders/computer audiophiles on the subject. I've seen some who claim a video card is beneficial to SQ, others who say the opposite. Also, from what I can tell, most high end servers (Pink Faun, Sound Galleries, others) seem to use Intel Graphics for video output, which would seem to indicate a video card is not preferred, but who knows!

[lmitche]

4 hours ago, BigGuy said:

I understand that the polyester itself is an insulator but the description is "aluminized...both sides".  Apparently the fabric can be metalized without any bleed through from either side as Larry's Multimeter confirms.

 

I have samples being shipped so that I can evaluate other Gotham offerings.

It looks like the aluminum is only on one side of the polyester cloth. I can't get either side to ring with the multimeter. Resistance measurements on the cloth show no-conductance on either side.

 

When I put the Gotham in our friends system he was touch and go.  I left with it, leaving an Ibra network cable.  For several days he called begging for the return of the Gotham cable. He is thrilled with it's performance. 

 

I have a similar performance here with more air and presence.

[beautiful music]

@lmitche Larry I will be appreciating if you make a video for how did your JSSG 360 

[lmitche]

57 minutes ago, beautiful music said:

@lmitche Larry I will be appreciating if you make a video for how did your JSSG 360 

Hi BM,

 

I'm camera shy so don't expect a video, but I'll try to take some pictures of an Ethernet cable that's a work in progress.

 

Larry

[sandyk]

30 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Hi BM,

 

I'm camera shy so don't expect a video, but I'll try to take some pictures of an Ethernet cable that's a work in progress.

 

Larry

 

Very few of us more mature (?) members are as photogenic as Mansr is (was?) in his videos.

[Bricki]

8 hours ago, lmitche said:

Hi BM,

 

I'm camera shy so don't expect a video, but I'll try to take some pictures of an Ethernet cable that's a work in progress.

 

Larry

Have you done jssg 360 on your supra cat 8 yet? I have ordered some tinned copper tube and will be doing my curious cable with JSSG 360 and was wondering if the results were good on your supra cat 8? 

[LTG2010]

1 hour ago, Bricki said:

Have you done jssg 360 on your supra cat 8 yet? I have ordered some tinned copper tube and will be doing my curious cable with JSSG 360 and was wondering if the results were good on your supra cat 8? 

I wrapped my Curious USB with copper foil and soldered a wire that goes off to a grounding block. The result was a big reduction in brightness, the cable seems to be an antenna.

It's not exactly the same as you guys are talking about but I would assume the JSSG 360 as Larry has described would have a similar or better effect. Well worth trying out.

[manishex]

Can the JSSG wiring have a sheath around it or does it have to be bare?

[lmitche]

2 minutes ago, manishex said:

Can the JSSG wiring have a sheath around it or does it have to be bare?

For JSSG yes, for JSSG 360 no.

[BigGuy]

20 hours ago, lmitche said:

It looks like the aluminum is only on one side of the polyester cloth. I can't get either side to ring with the multimeter. Resistance measurements on the cloth show no-conductance on either side.

 

When I put the Gotham in our friends system he was touch and go.  I left with it, leaving an Ibra network cable.  For several days he called begging for the return of the Gotham cable. He is thrilled with it's performance. 

 

I have a similar performance here with more air and presence.

Interesting that they can keep the polyester from being conductive after metalizing.

 

Have not seen our mutual friend in a while.  Where are you using the Gotham in his system?

 

Do you guys have any thoughts on what the minimum cable length is for JSSG(360) and/or JSGT to be effective?

I have a 20 inch USB cable and a 6 inch DC cable that could be treated.

[Cooler]

Hello guys, can you suggest, does it make sense to use sotm sata filter III with ssd drive, if i feed ssd with uptone LPS-1?

[ElviaCaprice]

6 hours ago, Cooler said:

Hello guys, can you suggest, does it make sense to use sotm sata filter III with ssd drive, if i feed ssd with uptone LPS-1?

No, because SATA III filter is for incoming power only.  Better to use a SATA II filter and hope it works okay with your SATA III drive.  SATA II filter will work on the data line also.  I've yet to give this a go, but others report positive results.