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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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On 5/24/2018 at 2:20 PM, austinpop said:

Details of the Habst cable group buy are here.

 

Not sure if Habst were solid core or stranded, and we also couldn't tell the gauge since that wasn't listed.

 

Anyways, maybe it's gonna be worth the effort for those of us who only need 2 outta 4 taps from sCLK-EX. Let's say Habst could actually make something small enough to fit the tiny little U.FL connectors while matching the 50Ω impedance, that's gotta be great for replacing those cheap 50Ω clock cables inside sCLK-EX itself.

 

One U.FL for signal, and then another U.FL for ground. That should be able to mitigate the weakest link of sCLK-EX by reducing the degradation.

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11 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Not sure if Habst were solid core or stranded, and we also couldn't tell the gauge since that wasn't listed.

 

Anyways, maybe it's gonna be worth the effort for those of us who only need 2 outta 4 taps from sCLK-EX. Let's say Habst could actually make something small enough to fit the tiny little U.FL connectors while matching the 50Ω impedance, that's gotta be great for replacing those cheap 50Ω clock cables inside sCLK-EX itself.

 

One U.FL for signal, and then another U.FL for ground. That should be able to mitigate the weakest link of sCLK-EX by reducing the degradation.

PerHabst you are right!

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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25 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Not sure if Habst were solid core or stranded, and we also couldn't tell the gauge since that wasn't listed.

 

Anyways, maybe it's gonna be worth the effort for those of us who only need 2 outta 4 taps from sCLK-EX. Let's say Habst could actually make something small enough to fit the tiny little U.FL connectors while matching the 50Ω impedance, that's gotta be great for replacing those cheap 50Ω clock cables inside sCLK-EX itself.

 

One U.FL for signal, and then another U.FL for ground. That should be able to mitigate the weakest link of sCLK-EX by reducing the degradation.

Is there a measurement of phase noise increase or experienced reduced sound quality due to the internal clock cables and connectors ?  I am not a denier but wondering if it is a make work project.

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On 5/19/2018 at 9:19 AM, austinpop said:

... [better than one]... that involves 100s of mm of cable, not to mention a reference clocked, frequency-synthesized, clock generator.

 

...

 

 

this translates to a good fraction of a meter of cable, am I reading it correctly?  (or is it meant to be 100 ms or ns worth of cable run)

 

if the former, it reminds me of a comment by Charles Hanson, or barrows (or both) re the benefits of ... um "keeping the clock close"

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16 hours ago, lmitche said:

For those of you with Asus Intel motherboards I found this little nougat in the bios manual of my new motherboard:

 

BCLK Spread Spectrum
This item allows you to reduce the EMI. Disable to get more accurate base clocks.
Configuration options: [Auto] [Disabled]

 

Setting it to Disabled is audible, wow!

 

Nice catch Larry! And I agree - the fact that it makes an audible improvement makes this a nougat, not just a nugget!

 

BTW - just a heads up - I'll be out of pocket for the next couple of weeks, to celebrate a family milestone. I may pop in if I get the time, but most likely any responses will have to wait until mid-June.

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1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

that could be your sig.

 

I’m still having a big ??‍♂️ moment here ... how long is it going to take for everyone here to turn off spread spectrum and then repeat this thread ... ?

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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33 minutes ago, jabbr said:

I’m still having a big ??‍♂️ moment here ... how long is it going to take for everyone here to turn off spread spectrum and then repeat this thread ... ?

And how does this square with the deep fear of radiated interference, which spread spectrum reduces?

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1 hour ago, mansr said:

And how does this square with the deep fear of radiated interference, which spread spectrum reduces?

 Are you suggesting that What you lose on the swings, you gain on the roundabouts  ?

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 hour ago, sandyk said:

 

To be clear: if the system is creating jitter in the system clock on purpose, a more precise clock oscillator doesn’t change that.

 

Just because the PC otherwise emits more EMI, it doesn’t mean that the EMI necessarily gets into the audio ... it  doesn’t on my system.

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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3 minutes ago, jabbr said:

To be clear: if the system is creating jitter in the system clock on purpose, a more precise clock oscillator doesn’t change that.

 

 I don't have a horse in this race, but many members appear to be claiming  that a more precise clock oscillator results in an improvement, despite using Spread Spectrum. ( perhaps unwittingly)

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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5 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 I don't have a horse in this race, but many members appear to be claiming  that a more precise clock oscillator results in an improvement, despite using Spread Spectrum. ( perhaps unwittingly)

 

 

Custom room treatments for headphone users.

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31 minutes ago, luisma said:

Related to this specific topic and I feel compelled to share my experience in regards to power supplies / ac adapters improving the SQ of audio. This is of course no news for many of you here but empirically it is for me. I will try to be brief.

 

I don't consider myself a complete audiophile nor I'm an expert in these matters, I'm a music aficionado who loves quality in audio and definition. I am also a network engineer working with bits and computers since 1984 and I consider myself a very objective person technology wise.

 

Until a few days ago I was a believer than replacing the SMPS by a good quality LPS should not create big dramatic changes on what you hear coming out of the speakers, a part of me used to think most of the people in these forums who have experienced these "clean currents theories" were "drinking the cool aid" and were subjected to some sort of massive induced beliefs created by some sort of placebo effect as their experiences are very very vivid in terms of soundstage, instrument separation, quietness of the backgrounds in audio, tighter bass etc. 

 

Another part of me (the practical one) was driven to actually believe the use of LPS's may change a few things here and there possibly improving audio quality by 4% to 6% more (or none at all) but nothing spectacular so I went ahead and purchased a few days ago an LPS1.2 from Uptone Audio.

 

My setup consist of a NUC with Roon Server running Tidal MQA as a decoder only feeding via network an Allo DietPi connected to a Pro-Ject S2 and my Yamaha AS2100 with P37F speakers and a powersoundaudio S3600i sealed sub.

 

Since I don't trust my hearing alone or my own brain judgement and without giving specifics I asked my wife (she is a pianist with 35 years playing) to listen to a song I know very well, School by Supertramp, there is a section of the song from minute 3 to 4 more or less that you have a few instruments well defined and working together, guitar, drums, bass, piano, synth etc. I know I should have selected more songs to make a more fair and consistent evaluation but was lacking time so.

 

We listened to this specific song section 5 times with the Allo and Pro-ject factory supplied SMPS and 5 times with the Allo and Pro-ject connected to an LPS1.2, everything else stayed the same, volume and eq settings, Roon settings, cables and connectors.

The difference in audio was to me night vs day. I did not say anything and waited for my wife to provide her own opinion and we were both in complete agreement the background was quieter and cleaner (I guess the right term is a quieter soundstage but I'm not too good with these terms), the instruments were "clearer and more defined", the entire audio experience was more balanced, the bass without the LPS was a little distorted but very precise and tight with the LPS feeding the DAC and Bridge. The only thing we missed was the actual instrument sound, the bass chord strokes, felt more defined without the LPS but after listening several times we realized that it did not lacked definition but without the LPS all instruments were very far in the background and the bass was more noticeable as it was alone in the front end whether with the LPS bringing all the instruments forward created a more coherent and balanced sound and the bass chords were sharing the sound with the other instruments.

I feel with the Uptone Audio LPS1.2 like I'm listening to this song for the 1st time, also for the 1st time I'm hearing bass clarity on my sub and speakers, before bass was all over the place distorted sometimes, lost others, now it is for lack of a better word "tight" and "punchy".

 

I have a Powersound Audio S3600 which after 2 years of owning it I can finally start to appreciate, it is just ridiculous, the performance of the sub now is completely different with just adding the LPS to the chain, before I had distortion when increasing the crossover, now the sound it very very controlled and precise. As a matter of fact I have to start re calibrating my entire system and room now.

 

@JohnSwenson and @Superdad  and all of you who already knew and experienced this I would like to extend my apologies for being an incredulous and pragmatic hard headed techie, I was completely skeptical about this but I can confirm to myself now indeed that power quality matters if you want to improve SQ and enhance audio. My next test to try a few AC power cables, not the most expensive ones as my budget is limited but see if quality cables make any difference.

 

So just my 2 cents here, I thought I should share this as I found here in CA other people (funny thing is with my same background of computer engineering, networks, telecommunications etc) as pragmatic as I was and maybe if they read my comments will be willing to try something else to reach that Holy Grail of perfect SQ.

 

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Uptone Audio in any way with the exception I purchased their products which I consider excellent and very well built. I believe the only aspect these can be criticized is the lack of certain colors or finishes for certain products but I am not affected by it as look mainly at the performance and good engineering design rather than the aesthetics.

 

Thanks for your excellent report. Skepticism is a valued attribute in a scientist, as is an acceptance of findings, even if they are contrary to hypotheses or assumptions.

 

I applaud your honesty, and am very glad to know your system is sounding better.

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8 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks for your excellent report. Skepticism is a valued attribute in a scientist, as is an acceptance of findings, even if they are contrary to hypotheses or assumptions.

 

I applaud your honesty, and am very glad to know your system is sounding better.

Thank you for the kind words

I was trying to be brief but .... you can judge by yourself .... :) 

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34 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks for your excellent report. Skepticism is a valued attribute in a scientist, as is an acceptance of findings, even if they are contrary to hypotheses or assumptions.

 

I applaud your honesty, and am very glad to know your system is sounding better.

 To stir the pot a bit . :P

 

Checksums are unable to say how an Audio file MUST sound.
A crappy Laptop with SMPS can never result in as good a sounding audio file as (for example) a Mac Mini with a J.S. Linear PSU, no matter what the Checksums may suggest . 
 
The best that Checksums can do, if correct, is give a possibility of REGENERATING the files to CLOSE to that of the original Master !!!

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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