A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[mfin]

I'd put a linear power supply on that modded switch as well.

Have you got the connection to your cable modem (router) happening wirelessly using a wireless network bridge too? (and linear power supply on that).

 

...by the way, I've always found having an HDplex 200w is good to have around, it may not be the best, but it's got lots of voltages it can do, and multiple at once, so it has good potential for trying things. Of course it is good for those on a lower budget too. One of mine is currently powering my AQVox and my Roon Rock NUC (until I decide what else to use).

[spotforscott]

Yes, have the shunted LPS 1.2 on the modded switch. The cable modem is connected to mac mini via an ethernet cable using thunderbolt adapter. I use ethernet cable from mac mini to modded switch. From switch, I use SoTM ethernet cable to sms200

[mfin]

So you have a Mac Mini with two lan ports (2nd one added using thunderbolt adapter), one going to Cable Modem, the other going to modded switch and then on to the SMS-200 right?

 

(Just out of interest)

[spotforscott]

Yes sir!

[spotforscott]

Has anybody with LPS 1.2's shunted them to sms200 or txUSBultra? I assume it's not needed - just needed for switch. Just want to see if anyone has tried it despite the fact that shunting is supposed to be built into LPS 1.2 

[mfin]

4 minutes ago, spotforscott said:

Yes sir!

 

Have you tried instead of having the cable that goes straight into the cable modem, having that go into a wireless bridge (powered by a linear psu) ?

 

I do that even though I don't have to, it helped with Tidal for me, isolates things from the cable modem. Mine is not cable, mine is fibre to cabinet broadband (BT) so mine I would call my Router. That router even though it is isolated still benefitted from linear power as far as Tidal goes.

 

It does all become very tweaky at these points and you need keen logic and ears to work out what's having what effect on what!

[spotforscott]

No I have not tried inserting a wireless bridge between the modem and the mac mini. I would have thought a wired connection would be better than wireless? Is that not the case? For you it sounds better, eh?

[mfin]

15 minutes ago, spotforscott said:

No I have not tried inserting a wireless bridge between the modem and the mac mini. I would have thought a wired connection would be better than wireless? Is that not the case? For you it sounds better, eh?

 

It did for me yes. Other people are reporting this kind of thing as being positive.

 

I am looking at one last piece which is a Lan Isolator, but not like people might think of using it. In my setup the one and only Lan cable in my router does not touch my audio setup at all, it feeds a switch that connects to items in my lounge like TV, Bluray, AppleTV etc etc.

 

I am going to drop an isolator on that one lan cable, then my router is isolated completely, so there is some logic there. I expect it might make no difference, but I will try it anyway   ...I just need someone to sell me one they don't need for a bargain price, a Pink Faun, Acoustic Revive or GISO probably (although for my needs being fussy is not necessary, but it would give me something else to experiment with and assess in other scenarios, which I like doing hence one that is well regarded for audio would be good just to experiment with).

In your case a Lan Isolator is an option instead of a wireless bridge, but I think many people are initially impressed with them and then don't like them. In my case it doesn't matter, as it's not my audio setup that will be receiving anything through it at all.

 

 

[spotforscott]

Hmmm... interesting. What wireless bridge are you using? Thanks for the LAN isolator Idea, I will do some more reading on that 

[mfin]

Well, I think the Wireless Bridge way is better than the Lan Isolator from what I have read. My alternative use of a Lan Isolator was put in just for chat.

 

I use an ASUS EA-AC87, which comes with a 12v SMPS but of course you can then go linear. Someone on here was raving about their TP-Link RE650, but that sits in a mains socket and hence you can't go linear, so seeing as the Asus is £110 and the TP-Link is £95 and no real money is saved I wouldn't choose that. Saying that, that guy had used a previous TP-Link and then changed to that one and noted a step up, whereas I have compared none (only using one or not using one, then using one with a LPSU).

 

It didn't actually cost me anything in that I already had the Asus lying around in amongst a stack of network gear I have lying around, I just tried it and came up trumps. Sorry, actually I can't use the word trumps, it reminds me too much of idiots for some strange reason.

 

(Asus will only connect to 5ghz, so make sure your cable modem or router has it)

 

[afrancois]

1 hour ago, spotforscott said:

Full trifecta is up and operational (GS105 modded switch, sms200 with clock mod and txUSB ULTRA - all powered with LPS 1.2, on a dedicated line). USB Ultra serves as the master clock. I have been using a modded mac mini as a bridged server - powered by JS-2, as is the synology NAS, on a dedicated line 

.

Heard jaw-dropping improvement today that I wanted share...

 

First a little context: It's no secret (from posts I have made) that I have had my difficulties setting all of this up and getting it running. Well, all is good except for Roon not being able to find NAS. I have ordered a ST i7 with 2TB of storage - it will be replacing the modded Mini Mac anbd taking the NAS out of the system!

 

Anyways, because I will soon be switching out the mac mini and running my files from the ST i7 server rather, I took the JS-2 power away from the NAS and plugged it into the cable modem. I also used a better totaldac ethernet cable to connect it to the Mini Mac.

 

...OMFG, this change produced a massive improvement! I thought the system was a little hard/ edgy sounding because more burn in was needed. It turns out that the real problem was source noise. Seriously, a massive improvement! However, keep in mind that it was not just the JS-2 that made the difference, I am sure the dedicated line helped too. Line it was on previously has TV, apple TV and cable box on it too.

 

Moral of the story is, don't assume you can ignore the quality of power going to the cable modem because you have a bridged connection, modded switch and expensive SoTM ethernet cables (dCBL-CAT7) feeding your sms200. I was truly shocked by the difference.

 

That inspired me to do John's shunt trick on the modded switch and yet again, a really nice improvement - none of this subtle! I am sitting here just blown away by how this stupid noise gets in the way of the music - thanks to everyone for helping me understand how to get my system to a level I have never hear before

I have a similar experience. I just recently started to learn something about electronics (I'm a software Guy) and I did a measurement of my AC with an oscilloscope, looking for common mode noise. I was shocked by the effect of SMPS's. I've always used LPS's in my audio chain. Yet, I still have some SMPS's on the same line that are not part of my audio chain. So I replaced the SMPS's for the cable modem, another switch just behind this cable modem, wifi router, Synology NAS and Zotac IQ01 PC. The last one is used as RoonServer. I still have to remove some other SMPS's, one used for security cameras and another used for a Logitech infrared extender. I've even put a decent power cord on my Netgear 24 port switch. This one still uses an internal SMPS. Perhaps in the future, I will also try to replace this SMPS. Given the number of SMPS's in your system, this can become somewhat expensive though! And yes, I almost forgot: I'm replacing my ethernet cables with high quality (but not expensive) cables. In the audio chain, this was already the case.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, spotforscott said:

Full trifecta is up and operational (GS105 modded switch, sms200 with clock mod and txUSB ULTRA - all powered with LPS 1.2, on a dedicated line). USB Ultra serves as the master clock. I have been using a modded mac mini as a bridged server - powered by JS-2, as is the synology NAS, on a dedicated line 

.

Heard jaw-dropping improvement today that I wanted share...

 

First a little context: It's no secret (from posts I have made) that I have had my difficulties setting all of this up and getting it running. Well, all is good except for Roon not being able to find NAS. I have ordered a ST i7 with 2TB of storage - it will be replacing the modded Mini Mac anbd taking the NAS out of the system!

 

Anyways, because I will soon be switching out the mac mini and running my files from the ST i7 server rather, I took the JS-2 power away from the NAS and plugged it into the cable modem. I also used a better totaldac ethernet cable to connect it to the Mini Mac.

 

...OMFG, this change produced a massive improvement! I thought the system was a little hard/ edgy sounding because more burn in was needed. It turns out that the real problem was source noise. Seriously, a massive improvement! However, keep in mind that it was not just the JS-2 that made the difference, I am sure the dedicated line helped too. Line it was on previously has TV, apple TV and cable box on it too.

 

Moral of the story is, don't assume you can ignore the quality of power going to the cable modem because you have a bridged connection, modded switch and expensive SoTM ethernet cables (dCBL-CAT7) feeding your sms200. I was truly shocked by the difference.

 

That inspired me to do John's shunt trick on the modded switch and yet again, a really nice improvement - none of this subtle! I am sitting here just blown away by how this stupid noise gets in the way of the music - thanks to everyone for helping me understand how to get my system to a level I have never hear before

 

Congrats! I'm very glad you are happy with the SQ gains you are hearing!

[afrancois]

52 minutes ago, spotforscott said:

No I have not tried inserting a wireless bridge between the modem and the mac mini. I would have thought a wired connection would be better than wireless? Is that not the case? For you it sounds better, eh?

Let's not forget that the antenna of a wireless bridge, acts as (you guessed it) an antenna for picking up all sorts of RFI. Thus a wireless solution is not necessarily superior to a wired connection.

[mozes]

1 hour ago, spotforscott said:

. I have ordered a ST i7 with 2TB of storage - it will be replacing the modded Mini Mac anbd taking the NAS out of the system!

Smart decision, less external interaction.

[spotforscott]

27 minutes ago, afrancois said:

I have a similar experience. I just recently started to learn something about electronics (I'm a software Guy) and I did a measurement of my AC with an oscilloscope, looking for common mode noise. I was shocked by the effect of SMPS's. I've always used LPS's in my audio chain. Yet, I still have some SMPS's on the same line that are not part of my audio chain. So I replaced the SMPS's for the cable modem, another switch just behind this cable modem, wifi router, Synology NAS and Zotac IQ01 PC. The last one is used as RoonServer. I still have to remove some other SMPS's, one used for security cameras and another used for a Logitech infrared extender. I've even put a decent power cord on my Netgear 24 port switch. This one still uses an internal SMPS. Perhaps in the future, I will also try to replace this SMPS. Given the number of SMPS's in your system, this can become somewhat expensive though! And yes, I almost forgot: I'm replacing my ethernet cables with high quality (but not expensive) cables. In the audio chain, this was already the case.

Yeah, once you hear what harm those dastardly SMPS do to your audio system, you want them gone!!! I am lucky that I have 3 dedicated lines into my system to isolate the noise generators to one line. Even my DAVE dac is a noise generator so it is on a line by itself. The remaining dedicated line only has LPS 1.2's and JS-2 on it. I'm still in shock over the difference i heard by upgrading power source or modem / router

[spotforscott]

1 minute ago, mozes said:

Smart decision, less external interaction.

For sure. Really looking forward to putting that into the system next week and listen to some hi-res music stored on the server. I wonder how it will compare to Tidal now that my network is much cleaner...

[Lebouwsky]

My server is directly connected to the dac, music is stored locally and on nas. I don’t have a (modded) switch and router / nas are powered by smps. 

 

To me music streamded from local stored files sound better. I use the lan connection just for controlling app on iPhone. Controling the software by a wireless mouse makes the lan unnececerry. 

 

Does it make sence to say avoiding lan is better then optimising it?

[Cornan]

39 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

My server is directly connected to the dac, music is stored locally and on nas. I don’t have a (modded) switch and router / nas are powered by smps. 

 

To me music streamded from local stored files sound better. I use the lan connection just for controlling app on iPhone. Controling the software by a wireless mouse makes the lan unnececerry. 

 

Does it make sence to say avoiding lan is better then optimising it?

 

LAN= hard wired network

Wireless LAN= Wifi

It does’nt make sence to avoid wi-fi to me. For example using a TP-Link RE650 into Aqvox switch improves both speed, isolation and SQ compared to hard wired the router in my setup. However, mind the distance between router and ethernet bridge/wireless adapter. Long distances means hard wired is probably better.

Also mind clean power and isolation. Clean power everywhere and isolation between the router and your audio rig including wireless adapter/network bridge.

[Lebouwsky]

What I was trying to say is to avoid lan at all (wired or wireless) if it causes pollution. 

[Cornan]

20 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

What I was trying to say is to avoid lan at all (wired or wireless) if it causes pollution. 

 

Ok, that is ofcourse a noble task if you have no need for a control point. If you are going down that path you might be interested in this http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/142562-microsd-memory-card-transport-project.html ?

[seeteeyou]

21 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Likewise Alan my Aqvox switch now powered by an SR4 gives one of the most significant improvements to my system. Tidal out performs local files and the grounding shunt has no effect. 

 

Definitely shows what better clocking can do ...

 

Tidal outperforms local files? Now THAT would be mighty interesting or even paradigm shifting IMHO.

 

Since SOtM is gonna offer 2 SFP ports, I might have to think about Intel NetEffect NE020 and then how to power Netgear Nighthawk X10 properly because of iWARP

 

Adventures In RDMA – The RoCE Path Over DCB To Windows Server 2012 R2 SMB 3.0 Glory
https://blog.workinghardinit.work/2013/08/28/adventures-in-rdma-the-roce-path-to-windows-server-2012-r2-smb-3-0-glory/

 

Windows Server 2016 Networking – Part 1- RDMA, DCB, PFC, ETS, etc
http://www.darrylvanderpeijl.com/windows-server-2016-networking-rdma-dcb-pfc-ets-etc/

Quote

RDMA is optimizing the network by placing data directly into the host destination memory thus bypassing the memory and CPU bus. This way the overhead for network traffic is minimal and helps a lot latency wise.

 

Remote Direct Memory Access (RDMA) and Switch Embedded Teaming (SET)
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/virtualization/hyper-v-virtual-switch/rdma-and-switch-embedded-teaming

 

Windows Server 2016 NIC and Switch Embedded Teaming User Guide
https://gallery.technet.microsoft.com/Windows-Server-2016-839cb607

[seeteeyou]

On 3/16/2018 at 9:41 AM, MayfromSOtM said:

SOtM switch will have 8 LAN ports and 2 SFP ports, the sCLK-EX would be added as an option which means the master clock signal can be synced externally also..

 

Thanks May for your updates. Is that switch based on a product from MikroTik by any chance?

 

https://mikrotik.com/product/CRS210-8G-2SplusIN

https://www.mikrotik-store.eu/en/mikrotik-crs-210-8g-2splusin

[tapatrick]

2 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Tidal outperforms local files? Now THAT would be mighty interesting or even paradigm shifting IMHO.

the paradigm has shifted then...  @Cornan confirms the same as we have similar components.

I think this is significant given that I have an Antipodes DXe server, which leads me to conclude that the difference is between music coming from SSD V reclocked by Aqvox switch. On my (long) list of tests to do is to power the Antipodes SSD with the SR4 and separately to build or source a stripped down SD card player.. .. plus a Sparky Roon streamer to see where next best improvement will come from.

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, tapatrick said:

the paradigm has shifted then...  @Cornan confirms the same as we have similar components.

I think this is significant given that I have an Antipodes DXe server, which leads me to conclude that the difference is between music coming from SSD V reclocked by Aqvox switch. On my (long) list of tests to do is to power the Antipodes SSD with the SR4 and separately to build or source a stripped down SD card player.. .. plus a Sparky Roon streamer to see where next best improvement will come from.

 

Yes, I share the same impressions that Tidal sounds better than local files stores on HDD in my setup. However, I have played around a bit with Google Drive and even if the differences are small between FLAC played through Tidal and the same FLAC album saved on Google Drive have a tiny bit more resolution when both are played through BubbleDS Next (OpenHome) but Tidal sounds a bit more relaxed. I intend to continue to explore cloud saved files and possibly SD card storage on wireless NAS/Wireless adapter when I find the inspiration to do so. Right now all my inspiration is locked into voltage regulators and PSU solutions though! ?

[kennyb123]

Roon got really flaky on me recently.  The culprit turned out to be something I wouldn’t have expected.  I thought I’d share the details here.

The flakiness initially pointed to a networking problem.  Roon had a tough time playing tracks from Tidal.  Playback would halt and I’d see messages indicating that the song was no longer available from Tidal.  Occasionally Roon would also lose control of the output device (microRendu).  And occasionally there’d be hiccups when playing songs from my NAS too.

Roon runs on a Mac Mini that boots off an SD card.  I ran Speedtest.net and was shocked to find upload speeds a fraction of what every other device on my wired network reported.  Like 7 mbps vs 150 mbps.  I substituted my MacBook Air for the Mini to see if there was an issue with the physical network.  Test was fine so I was able to rule that out.

Next I deleted and recreated the bridge on the Mini.  Upload speeds still stunk.

Next I cloned the SD card onto the internal HD of the Mac Mini and then booted off the internal HD.  Upload speeds back to normal. So the problem was the SD card?

Next I cloned the SD card onto a spare SD card and booted off that.  Upload speeds now 75 mbps - half of what they should be, but 10x what was reported off the other SD card.  

I’ve not experienced a single hiccup with playback since swapping SD cards.  Tidal playback is back to normal.

The former SD card had been the boot drive on my Mac Mini for almost exactly a year.  I guess it was starting to fail.  Interesting the ways that it adversely impacted music playback.