A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

pas · March 6, 2018

5 hours ago, manishex said:

Any recommendations on what to upgrade that lps-1 meanwell SMPS to?

Having checked a bunch of Mean Well units, including a couple of the their "medical" ones, I can tell you that the odds of the one you are looking at being designed with its DC zero-volt output "ground" common to the AC inlet ground are very slim. For whatever reason, Mean Well does not seem to do this with any of their units. I tried for months to get an answer from the factory about this--and to get them to make us 1,000 units with the change--and got nowhere. That's why we moved to a different supplier for the LPS-1.2 charger. Even then, the shunting is not something that is found in the spec sheets--we had to buy lots of samples to find one.

After the first 250 LPS-1.2 orders are shipped, we will begin offering our 7.5V/4.8A/36W adapter separately for $15 to those who want one. Until then, there is a CUI brand 12V/2.5A/30W unit available in the US from DigiKey and other distributors (https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=102-4104-ND. This is one that I personally confirmed connects AC ground to DC output "ground."

Hope this helps.

--Alex C.

rickca · March 7, 2018

5 hours ago, mozes said:

We all have our sins

Yeah, but mine is original.

asdf1000 · March 7, 2018

https://www.audiostream.com/content/barn-gigafoilv4-–-inline

Their "FOIL" trademark stands for fiber optic isolation link so I assume it really is fiber optic.

This is a brochure for their older model:

https://www.djmelectronics.com/GigaFOILv3 Brochure.pdf

They even appear to have a high speed USB 2.0 isolator that uses optical isolation (apparently) which I've never heard of before:

https://www.djmelectronics.com/usb-emi-rfi-filter.html

Has anyone had any experience with any of their products?

I've mentioned this in another forum also but I can't find a single review anywhere and the price but that could be because they appear to supply industrial and military industries, not audiophile specifically.

mozes · March 7, 2018

Has anyone tried the LPS-1.2 with the tX-USBexp? For some unknown reason It doesn’t work eventhough the LPS-1.2 shows a green light.

The LPS-1.2 works fine with the sCLk-EX board and the tX-USBultra.

BigAlMc · March 7, 2018

1 hour ago, mozes said:

Has anyone tried the LPS-1.2 with the tX-USBexp? For some unknown reason It doesn’t work eventhough the LPS-1.2 shows a green light.

The LPS-1.2 works fine with the sCLk-EX board and the tX-USBultra.

Hi @mozes yeah I'm using my new LPS-1.2 with the tX-USBexp no problem.

Both are 9v. Is your TX-USBultra 9 or 12v?

Cheers,

Alan

flkin · March 7, 2018

Ok, so here are the results of our SOtM Stable and Antipodes comparisons. Firstly I have to thank Khun Aek @Kritpoon for kindly coming over with his equipment and leaving it behind for a week. The world is truly small and to have two top tier front ends systems within a stone throw of each other in Bangkok is a nice surprise for us both.

There are two schools of though about sources. One is to have an optimised computer with low noise, properly powered and even re-clocked perhaps feeding a DAC directly. The other is to use a simpler server of music like a Macbook or Mini and pass the signal through sophisticated rendering and cleaning systems. Both approaches have avid supporters and here we are looking at an instance of both approaches with interesting results.

As we have a lot of equipment and many various connections required to get each setup to work properly, I will first list (did it before but to summarise, here it is again) out the different equipment we had on that day of the test:

Source:
Antipodes running Roon Server
MacBook Pro running Roon Server

The MacBook Pro is unoptimised (actually running as a Plex movie server for my kids as well) but bridged between an Orbi network WiFi secondary router (w/Teddy Pardo 12/2) that acts as the only data input point in the room and the SOtM clock modified D-Link DSG-105 switch.

Antipodes system:
- Antipodes DX Gen 3
- UltraRendu (LPS-1)
- Mutec Ref.10
- Mutec MC3+usb (mod for LPS-1 DC) w/Habst Digital BNC 5N Cryo Silver, 70ohm cable to the Ref 10
- BNC Coax cable Digiflex Gold II

SOtM Stable:
- 2 SOtM dCBL-CAT7 ethernet cables and an iSO-CAT6 ethernet cleaner box
- The Trifecta consisting of the 3 items: D-Link DSG105 w/clock mod (LPS-1), sMS-200 w/clock mod (sPS-500), tx-USBultra (sPS-500) providing the clock connections
- IsoRegen (LPS-1)
Clock:
- Cybershaft OP14 clock w/ original Cybershaft 50ohm cable

Rest of my system:
Vinnie Rossi DAC 2.0 --> Vinnie Rossi DHT preamp (w/Takatsuki TA-300B tubes) --> YBA Passion 1000 mono blocks --> Wilson Watt Puppy 6 with the WP7 woofers

Here are the tests we did and had 3 pairs of ears on them. We mostly agreed on the differences as they were not subtle. No blind tests were conducted. In all cases, the MC3+ was clocked by the Mutec Ref.10 via the Habst BNC cable.

1. Cybershaft OP14 vs. Mutec Ref.10
2. Antipodes to MC3+ vs. Macbook to SOtM Stable to MC3+
3. Antipodes to MC3+ vs. Macbook to SOtM Stable
4. Antipodes to SOtM Stable to MC3+ vs. All of the above
5. Antipodes to SOtM Stable to MC3+ vs. Antipodes to UltraRendu to MC3+
6. Habst 75ohm cable vs. Pasternack RG216 75ohm cable

1. Cybershaft OP14 vs. Mutec Ref.10
Khun Aek @Kritpoon brought over his equipment over the day before and so it would be warming up for around 30 hours prior to our tests. We figured this should be enough for the clock and other components to sound at it’s best.

And of course, I couldn’t help but to have a listen the night before the tests alone after around 8 hours of warming. This was probably the simplest test to perform as I had my SOtM Stable already set up and it was only a matter of switching the Cybershaft 50ohm cable from the OP14 to the Ref.10 50ohm connector.

With the track Live from Las Vegas, Louis Prima & Kelly Smith track 15, Embraceable you, the Ref. 10 can be heard as more natural with more focus. More separation with the instruments and voices without being thinner. The separated sounds have a touch better textures and more details, the combined effect is that the sonic picture is more real.

With Breathe by Jax Jones, the Ref10 sync beats more clearly focused in space, tight and bouncing around the soundstage. Voice more texture and natural. Who would have known a club/dance electronic pop song like this can have vocals that sound audiophile?!

Tower of song by Leonard Cohen, voice larger with OP14 made it more enjoyable to listen to but perhaps less accurate.

Tears in Heaven, Eric Clapton Unplugged. OP14 looser imaging and each sound image larger. Fun to listen to but Ref10 more focused and more accurate. Overall balance of sound comes across as balanced and complete, voices correct sizes detailed and textured, guitars clear and defined, backing vocals gently at the back left. The thumping bass is resolved enough to imagine heel stamping and you can hear the shoe tapping on the floor too. Nice!

That said, it’s not as if the Cybershaft OP14 is a slouch, it’s already very good and the best my system had ever been prior to listening to the Ref.10. The improvement over the clock in the tX-USBultra is substantial and well worth the upgrade. It’s just that the Mutec Ref10 provides even more of a ‘clock’ effect. A little bit better in all aspects. In addition to lower a phase noise in the Ref.10, I wonder if that has to do with their use of a square wave form instead of the sine wave in the OP14?

The next day when my guests arrived, I suggested that we used just the Tears in Heaven, Eric Clapton Unplugged track as our test track. It’s an excellent sounding track with guitar strings, vocals in a live environment. Everyone arrived at the same conclusion which was the external clock matters and greatly so with the Ref 10.

From this point on, we decided to stick with the Ref10 clock for any external clocking requirements.

2. Antipodes with MC3+ vs. Macbook through SOtM Stable with MC3+
Next up a pretty obvious comparison was to use the Antipodes by itself to my Vinnie Rossi DAC 2.0. Unfortunately we couldn’t get the Antipodes to recognise the DAC 2.0 and eventually we tried passing the Antipodes through the MC3+ (Ref10 reclocked with Habst cable) and using a coaxial (Digiflex Gold II) to the DAC2.0 and this worked fine. So the rest of our comparison tests had to pass through the MC3+.

The first surprise of the day - the Macbook setup sounded better. Same Eric Clapton track was used. The Antipodes setup sounded thicker and less airy between the soundscape. Eric Clapton’s voice with less detail and emotion.

We had expected that the Antipodes with it’s specially customised Asus motherboard and optimised power source would be better but we didn’t hear it that way. Could it be that the SOtM dCBL-Cat7 cables and iSO-Cat6 device from the Macbook were doing it job and providing the Stable with a sufficiently cleaned signal to best the Antipodes? Looking at the wired connections more carefully, we noticed that the Antipodes was connected to the Orbi router with a standard Blue Jeans ethernet blue cable. I had an unused Ghent JSSG cable lying around and so tried it. Ah and there’s the difference, once the cable was swapped, the Antipodes’ sound noticeably tightened up. Now the sound from both systems were about matched. *

* I revisited this setup after the meet by myself as it's pretty unexpected and came to the conclusion again.

This indicates to me that in my particular setup the server is not as critical as the renderer part of the source. A humble Macbook Pro (with power adaptor plugged in, eek!) and not software optimised still sounded comparable to a top quality server. But to achieve this it needed to be software bridged along with, I suspect, the triple cleaning effect of the SOtM ethernet filters to removed whatever noise that shouldn’t be there.

3. Antipodes with MC3+ vs. Macbook with SOtM Stable
Ok, then how about we remove the MC3+ from the Macbook setup? The sound becomes thinner and not as engaging as with the MC3+ in the path. It looks like the tx-USBultra, while doing a good job cleaning the USB signal, as is confirmed by so many others, can still be improved upon by yet another USB cleaner after it. Khun Aek informs me that up to 4 MC3+ devices can be chained together to further clean a signal noticeably!

4. Antipodes with SOtM Stable with MC3+ vs. All of the above
So we established that the Stable with MC3+ added for double cleaning is necessary but what about adding the Antipodes as the source instead of the Macbook? This we haven’t tried yet as the (3) comparison was with the Antipodes with the MC3+ alone. And here the Macbook/Stable/MC3+ matched it.

Yes, this was the optimal configuration. The best of the lot. Beautifully natural sound, balanced of bass, voice details and texture with an open airy sound. There is no noticeable emphasis in the music, all parts of Eric Clapton’s ensemble are playing/singing in what feels like great teamwork, a musical sync without one aspect overwhelming another. Depth, width and even height of the music nicely rendered. When you hit a sweet spot, wow! The emotion really comes through. The differences of the various combinations of the equipment may not be all that much measured by percentages but when measured by the emotions of the musicians bared so clearly to us and the effect it had on us, it’s truly a 'goosebump' moment as Khun Aek put it.

5. Antipodes to SOtM Stable to MC3+ vs. Antipodes to UltraRendu to MC3+
Khun Aek recently discovered that his bridged Antipodes sounded better with the UltraRendu added as the renderer. It was the best his system sounded prior to coming over, so we decided to see how the UltraRendu would sound by swapping it in to replace the Stable.

Nope, the soundstage collapses quite a bit, several steps behind the last iteration in (4). Vocals are also slightly recessed. In my particular setup the Antipodes played through the Stable and extra cleaned with the MC3+ has some truly special synergy and here the UltraRendu cannot replace the Stable.

6. Habst 5N cryo silver 75ohm cable vs. Pasternack PE33403-36, RG216 75ohm cable
Given the silver Habst cable was so expensive and since I had a new Pasternack RG216 double shielded cable around, we though it would be interesting to see how much of a change swapping the cable would show. This is from the Ref10 to the MC3+. The Stable was still connected to the Ref 10 via the Cyershaft 50ohm cable.

So using the best sounding combination of equipment in (4) we tried this. Amazing change in sound. The Habst is far better. With the Pasternak the sound becomes unfocused, the bass and lower mids a smeared blob. The difference was almost as large as not using a clock. So the clock BNC cable matters - to the extent that an external clock is basically pointless without a good cable. So much so that I am considering seeing if Habst can make up a 50ohm cable for my Cybershaft.

The Habst cable has 2 BNC connectors on the Ref 10 side - a thicker twin cable for signal and a thinner single for ground. We decided to fit the Habst back to the MC3+ but disconnect the ground BNC alone. With just the signal cable, the Habst is good but not great. The grounding BNC is essential but takes an additional port on the Ref.10

At this time, we decided to lay back and enjoy music for the rest of our meet. Some of the other tracks we listened to were:

Livingston Taylor, Isn’t she lovely
Nojima Plays Liszt (Minoru Nojima), Etude No3, La Campanella
Jax Jones, Breathe
Hilary Hahn/ Natalie Zhu, Mozart: Violin Sonatas K301
La La Land (original motion picture soundtrack), Someone in the Crowd
Imagine Dragons, Evolve, Believer

Man, I heard things I never heard before. In the Liszt track, the piano notes and pedal movements has always been fantastic sounding but for the first time, I could see the piano size and shape. This is one of my favourite piano tracks with beautifully captured attacks and ambience. Norjima's playing here is OK but makes 4 mistakes are even clearer now that I can count. ;-)

Imagine Dragons just came to Bangkok recently and with that high energy Believer track, they were back in town in my hifi room and sounded like we were on stage with them; soundstage width, depth and height extending far beyond the physical boundaries of my room.

And so after our meet, I can say I've reconfirmed some of my earlier thoughts about equipment contributions but perhaps reordered their position in the significance table. To summarise our findings :

Clocks and clock cables - they matter greatly perhaps the most
USB cleaners, more than one in series works and significantly
Much can be done to improve the Source. The renderer part more so than the server part
The Macbook Pro makes is a great Roon server when bridged and ethernet output cleaned
But the best sound is to have an excellent source and further re-clock it and clean the output multiple times.

That’s it, hope this is interesting reading for all.

mfin · March 7, 2018

A few pages back, DC power cables for LPSUs were discussed...

I'm going to experiment with building one up with pure silver hookup wire. What I couldn't ascertain is:

1) Solid core VS Multi-strand - which could prove better, I am thinking of building up with solid core AWG22 or AWG24 here https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-sost-occ-silver-wire.html but would neotech's multi-strand be potentially better such as https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-stdst-occ-silver-wire.html

2) This is going to be the feed from a LPSU to Dac (to start with, then might build more for other items), I see most SMPS cables have no screen for example. Should I add a screen braid like here or not bother https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-SHIELDED-SCREENING-BRAID-for-DIy-cables/253114846080 and if I do do I terminate just at the LPSU end, or not terminate at all

Thanks for your help

PS. I have been trying two LPSUs on a Brooklyn Dac+ and one has a socket so I can experiment with cables (the other doesn't). I have tried the cable that came with it and then tried a Ghent one. The difference is clear and probably as much as the difference between the two LPSUs was. So, this is an experiment to see if building a better cable can get more difference or should I say improvement. My feeling is that this is very likely an achievable goal indeed.

zoltan · March 7, 2018

@flkin Wow! Great system! Thanks for the review. I wonder how hi-fi magazines survive if we can read such fantastic reviews online.

My front-end is very similar to what you found best, except the Antipodes and power supplies. I use a passive PC (in Streacom DB4) Win 10 I built myself. It is not optimized so my conclusion from your review is that perhaps it is something worth looking at. At the same time, given the price of an Antipod, do you think that difference was significant enough (compared to a Macbook) to justify $7500?

I have also experimented with some network isolation to avoid the need to optimize the server. I have a few Acoustic Revive RLI-1s that work nicely but the best so far was a FMC between the SOtM modded switch and the SMS-200 ultra where the receiving side is powered by the SPS-500. It seems to isolate noise prior in the chain so well that putting the D-Link switch back to its original SMPS power supply didn't even matter.

Recently, I friend brought over two more MC3+USBs and thus we cascaded three. It is an incredible difference compared to one and I am torn between getting one more MC3+USB or a Habst clock cable, nearly the same price. I am just going to order Canare clock cables that are optimized up to 12GHz https://www.sportsvideo.org/2017/04/25/nab-2017-canare-intros-12g-coax-for-4k-uhd-television-signals/
I wish I (or anybody else) had a chance to test this against the Habst. Speaking of the Habst, I technically can't understand what that separate gound does. A digital 75 ohm signal is supposed to be coax in geometry and have a 'signal' as the centre core and 'shield' as gound. Does anyone have a clue how it works in Habst?

Lastly, can I ask what software you used and what settings? Upsampling? Filters? Dither? etc,

mozes · March 7, 2018

6 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Hi @mozes yeah I'm using my new LPS-1.2 with the tX-USBexp no problem.

Both are 9v. Is your TX-USBultra 9 or 12v?

Cheers,

Alan

Thanks Alan, then there is something wrong with the tX-USBexp. What’s puzzling is that it works with the LPS-1 at 7V but not with the LPS-1.2 at 7V.

mozes · March 7, 2018

1 hour ago, mfin said:

1) Solid core VS Multi-strand - which could prove better, I am thinking of building up with solid core AWG22 or AWG24

I have been building some DC cables for my personal use and I have tried many many conductors with various gauges including copper, silver, and silver plated copper, stranded and solid core.

I found that the most important aspect

to SQ is gauge, go for the largest gauge you can regardless whether it is solid core or stranded. As for copper vs. silver you really need to try in your system to find the tonality that matches best with your system.

Johnseye · March 7, 2018

1 hour ago, mozes said:

Thanks Alan, then there is something wrong with the tX-USBexp. What’s puzzling is that it works with the LPS-1 at 7V but not with the LPS-1.2 at 7V.

How about at 9v?

mozes · March 7, 2018

9 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

How about at 9v?

No luck at 9v as well. After some trials, I think there is something related to the LT3045 regulators because I tried a 12V battery with a 9V LT3045 and it didn’t work as well. This is very odd indeed.

mozes · March 7, 2018

Ok I have identified what the issue is. As I expected it is in the LT3045 boards. As soon as I plugged the LPS-1.2, I hear a slight buzzing noise detectable from 50cm away. I plugged my battery with the LT3045 and I also heard the same buzzing noise, this time the board is external so I knew that the buzzing noise is coming from it.

Also, when I power off the sps-500 that powers the motheboard the buzzing goes away. Power it on again and the buzzing noise starts.

I will send an email to SOTM to explain what is going once and see what they recommend.

seeteeyou · March 7, 2018

54 minutes ago, mozes said:

I found that the most important aspect to SQ is gauge, go for the largest gauge you can regardless whether it is solid core or stranded.

When the opening of DC plug (i.e. the diameter) is 8.5 mm, the area should be 56.75 mm²

https://www.sensorsone.com/circle-diameter-to-area-calculator/

Let's say we just wanna go totally nuts and we're giving 6 AWG a try. The diameter of each wire is 4.11 mm while the area is 13.3 mm² accordingly to this link

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

Could we actually fit two pieces of 6 AWG wires inside a modified Elec plug? If so, could those unusually thick wires be super difficult to solder?

http://www.elecaudio.com/en/hi-fi-connectors/286-elecaudio-dc-21g-jack-dc-connector-5525mm-gold-plated.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/connecteurs-jack/elecaudio-dc-21g-gold-plated-connector-jack-dc-55-21mm-p-9822.html
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31554-diy-dc-power-cables/?page=8&tab=comments#comment-658536

On 5/3/2017 at 10:09 PM, Michael-Elijah Audio said:

Standard vs. modified Elac plugs - opening now 8.5mm - big enough for almost any cable...:)

Cut with hacksaw, then careful filing with flat bastard and finished with wet & dry paper

BigGuy · March 7, 2018

17 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

When the opening of DC plug (i.e. the diameter) is 8.5 mm, the area should be 56.75 mm²

https://www.sensorsone.com/circle-diameter-to-area-calculator/

Let's say we just wanna go totally nuts and we're giving 6 AWG a try. The diameter of each wire is 4.11 mm while the area is 13.3 mm² accordingly to this link

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

Could we actually fit two pieces of 6 AWG wires inside a modified Elec plug? If so, could those unusually thick wires be super difficult to solder?

http://www.elecaudio.com/en/hi-fi-connectors/286-elecaudio-dc-21g-jack-dc-connector-5525mm-gold-plated.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/connecteurs-jack/elecaudio-dc-21g-gold-plated-connector-jack-dc-55-21mm-p-9822.html
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31554-diy-dc-power-cables/?page=8&tab=comments#comment-658536

Great idea to cut the end off of the DC plug but is it sourced from "ELAC" or "ELEC"audio?

Could not find a source for the Elecaudio plugs in the USA?! Links?

I have used Oyaide but these would be less expensive.

Johnseye · March 7, 2018

42 minutes ago, mozes said:

Ok I have identified what the issue is. As I expected it is in the LT3045 boards. As soon as I plugged the LPS-1.2, I hear a slight buzzing noise detectable from 50cm away. I plugged my battery with the LT3045 and I also heard the same buzzing noise, this time the board is external so I knew that the buzzing noise is coming from it.

Also, when I power off the sps-500 that powers the motheboard the buzzing goes away. Power it on again and the buzzing noise starts.

I will send an email to SOTM to explain what is going once and see what they recommend.

Where is the LT3045 located? I wasn't aware SOtM used these in their products.

mozes · March 7, 2018

Just now, Johnseye said:

Where is the LT3045 located? I wasn't aware SOtM used these in their products.

Inside the LPS-1.2. For the battery, I put them in series with the DC wire from the battery to the tX-USBexp

Johnseye · March 7, 2018

Just now, mozes said:

Inside the LPS-1.2. For the battery, I put them in series with the DC wire from the battery to the tX-USBexp

Uptone uses them in the new LPS? Why are you asking SOtM about it? Sorry for the ignorance, just trying to understand what is stock vs. custom and why there's an issue.

mozes · March 7, 2018

18 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Uptone uses them in the new LPS? Why are you asking SOtM about it? Sorry for the ignorance, just trying to understand what is stock vs. custom and why there's an issue.

Because the LPS-1.2 works fine so I suspect there is a compatibility issue with the tX-USBexp and the way it is wired inside my server.

Johnseye · March 7, 2018

1 minute ago, mozes said:

Because the LPS-1.2 works fine so I suspect there is a compatibility issue with the tX-USBexp and the way it is wired inside my server.

Do you also have the molex connected to the mobo? Is the tX-USBexp connected to an sCLK?

mozes · March 7, 2018

8 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

Do you also have the molex connected to the mobo? Is the tX-USBexp connected to an sCLK?

No the molex is not connected to the motherboard. The tX-USBexps are clocked by the sCLK-EX board.

austinpop · March 7, 2018

What an excellent review, @flkin, in the finest tradition of this thread! I am envious of the collective quality of equipment you had on hand, although perhaps less so than others, as we have a lot of this gear in Austin as well!

In general, I am glad to hear that your findings are quite consistent with @limniscate's and mine, and many others on this thread. Of course, the general finding is that everything matters - clocks, PSUs, cables, and everything else. But more specifically, it points to an approach with clocking that I really hope manufacturers are paying heed. And that is:

pay attention to the quality of both your word and your system clocks
- consider a design that enables an external reference clock like the Ref 10, Cybershaft et al.
  - My shallow understanding of clock design suggests that this means a frequency synthesizer approach to internal clocks, rather than fixed frequency clocks
  - However, perhaps there are other ways to do this - I don't know
- Bottom line, I would love to see components that both accept external reference clocks, and apply this reference to both word and system clocks.
provide the ability to override the internal PSU with an external DC supply
Imagine an end to end chain that could be natively (i.e. without mods) clocked by a reference clock, and powered by the best PSUs

Let me comment on a few things, specifically.

5 hours ago, flkin said:

Rest of my system:
Vinnie Rossi DAC 2.0 --> Vinnie Rossi DHT preamp (w/Takatsuki TA-300B tubes) --> YBA Passion 1000 mono blocks --> Wilson Watt Puppy 6 with the WP7 woofers

I noticed you never tried running USB direct from the tX-USBultra to the DAC 2.0? Is there a reason? Or did I just miss it in the write up? Is the S/PDIF input of the DAC 2.0 known to be much better than USB?

I say this because I learned from um, a friend, that he at one point tried the MC-3+ USB between his tX-USBultra and his Blu2/DAVE, all clocked by the Ref 10, and he found that the MC-3+ USB actually detracted from the SQ. Of course, different DAC, and his MC-3+ was not modded for LPS. Anyway, I was just curious. This is the same reason I asked @Confused to try going direct to his Devialet.

5 hours ago, flkin said:

1. Cybershaft OP14 vs. Mutec Ref.10

That said, it’s not as if the Cybershaft OP14 is a slouch, it’s already very good and the best my system had ever been prior to listening to the Ref.10. The improvement over the clock in the tX-USBultra is substantial and well worth the upgrade. It’s just that the Mutec Ref10 provides even more of a ‘clock’ effect. A little bit better in all aspects. In addition to lower a phase noise in the Ref.10, I wonder if that has to do with their use of a square wave form instead of the sine wave in the OP14?

Well, this is timely, as @limniscate are going to do the Ref 10 vs. OP-14 shootout at my place in a few days. Now I really look forward to this comparo!

5 hours ago, flkin said:

6. Habst 5N cryo silver 75ohm cable vs. Pasternack PE33403-36, RG216 75ohm cable
The Habst is far better. With the Pasternak the sound becomes unfocused, the bass and lower mids a smeared blob. The difference was almost as large as not using a clock. So the clock BNC cable matters - to the extent that an external clock is basically pointless without a good cable. So much so that I am considering seeing if Habst can make up a 50ohm cable for my Cybershaft.

Sigh, I was afraid of this! Please let me know what you learn from Habst about the 50 Ω cable. Since the Cybershaft has just the one BNC, I am not sure how the separate ground concept is possible.

5 hours ago, flkin said:

And so after our meet, I can say I've reconfirmed some of my earlier thoughts about equipment contributions but perhaps reordered their position in the significance table. To summarise our findings :

Clocks and clock cables - they matter greatly perhaps the most

USB cleaners, more than one in series works and significantly

Much can be done to improve the Source. The renderer part more so than the server part

The Macbook Pro makes is a great Roon server when bridged and ethernet output cleaned

But the best sound is to have an excellent source and further re-clock it and clean the output multiple times.

As I've pointed out in a recent post, I think the lines between "server" and "renderer" are quite blurry, and best not to fixate on function. See: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38110-innuos-zenith-se-mkii/?do=findComment&comment=786922

IMO, the quality of the device that starts the USB chain seems to be of extreme importance. Getting the clocking, PSU, and overall HW design is critical. I think looking forward, it will be nice to work towards filling in the obvious information gaps:

Does the trifecta approach regain ascendancy when powered by SR-7 grade PSU?
How does the Antipodes DX3/Zenith SE compare to bespoke custom sCLK-ed servers like @romaz, @ElviaCaprice, and @Johnseye's? Apologies if I missed others.

5 hours ago, flkin said:

That’s it, hope this is interesting reading for all.

It certainly was interesting reading. Thanks again for taking the time!

rickca · March 7, 2018

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

I noticed you never tried running USB direct from the tX-USBultra to the DAC 2.0? Is there a reason? Or did I just miss it in the write up? Is the S/PDIF input of the DAC 2.0 known to be much better than USB?

Here is the explanation.

Next up a pretty obvious comparison was to use the Antipodes by itself to my Vinnie Rossi DAC 2.0. Unfortunately we couldn’t get the Antipodes to recognise the DAC 2.0 and eventually we tried passing the Antipodes through the MC3+ (Ref10 reclocked with Habst cable) and using a coaxial (Digiflex Gold II) to the DAC2.0 and this worked fine. So the rest of our comparison tests had to pass through the MC3+.

mozes · March 7, 2018

Has anyone ordered a PSU from Sean Jacobs of Custom HiFi?

mfin · March 7, 2018

4 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

When the opening of DC plug (i.e. the diameter) is 8.5 mm, the area should be 56.75 mm²

https://www.sensorsone.com/circle-diameter-to-area-calculator/

Let's say we just wanna go totally nuts and we're giving 6 AWG a try. The diameter of each wire is 4.11 mm while the area is 13.3 mm² accordingly to this link

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

Could we actually fit two pieces of 6 AWG wires inside a modified Elec plug? If so, could those unusually thick wires be super difficult to solder?

http://www.elecaudio.com/en/hi-fi-connectors/286-elecaudio-dc-21g-jack-dc-connector-5525mm-gold-plated.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/connecteurs-jack/elecaudio-dc-21g-gold-plated-connector-jack-dc-55-21mm-p-9822.html
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31554-diy-dc-power-cables/?page=8&tab=comments#comment-658536

Pure sliver hookup wires seem to stop at 22 AWG (£33/m) for solid and 20AWG (£56/m) for multi-strand (both Neotech). 1 metre will do to make the 50cm lead I want to make.

Are you suggesting multiple runs?

I'm thinking to start by trying the 22 AWG solid core neotech, it should be manageable to solder etc too.

A little more feeback on my thinking would be cool.

A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

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