A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[LTG2010]

18 minutes ago, Confused said:

Almost everything seems to be good, but to me the treble seems to be a little overemphasised, and has a slightly unpleasant 'glassy' characteristic to it. 

It sounds awful at first and needs 200hrs burn in to shine ie. leave roon radio playing whilst you are away.

Its not a 'bright' sound if compared to something like Ultrarendu. The SOTM gear has a lot of filtration especially the sPS500 and IMO it is a little too rolled off in the High frequencies, so its either burn in or a problem elsewhere eg. lush cables seem to add body and warmth to the sound and I assume you have the REF10 connected up as that will calm things down a bit.

Although the microrendu is less detailed, it has a certain musicality that is difficult to match.

[Confused]

11 minutes ago, Cooler said:

 

Could you also try with Mutec ref 10 and without, im curious, how seriously it improves SQ.

2

I am running a Devialet amp, which is generally reckoned to perform best when fed via it's AES/EBU input.  As I posted earlier, in this set-up with a Mutec MC3+USB feeding the Devialet via AES/EBU, the change from adding the REF10 was transformational, everything more detailed but at the same time more natural sounding, plus a big step up in dynamics, impact from drums, new textures becoming apparent in the bass, this kind of thing.  I cannot comment on what the REF10 might add to a system running asynchronous USB, but adding a REF10 to a MC3+USB feeding AES/EBU is a genuine step up in performance.  The REF10 was expensive, but worth every penny in my system.  I have the REF10 on a 30 day sale or return deal.  It is not going back!

[Confused]

14 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

It sounds awful at first and needs 200hrs burn in to shine ie. leave roon radio playing whilst you are away.

Its not a 'bright' sound if compared to something like Ultrarendu. The SOTM gear has a lot of filtration especially the sPS500 and IMO it is a little too rolled off in the High frequencies, so its either burn in or a problem elsewhere eg. lush cables seem to add body and warmth to the sound and I assume you have the REF10 connected up as that will calm things down a bit.

Although the microrendu is less detailed, it has a certain musicality that is difficult to match.

I will take due note of this.  The thing is, I have had the SOtM kit powered up for 24/7 for over a week, so in the region of 200 hours now.  That said, it has spent most of this time powered up but idle, that is not actually streaming.  To be honest, I cannot see that being powered up and idle is much different to powered up and actually running, but maybe I am wrong here.  So I think I will leave it running Roon Radio or something for most of this week, no harm in doing this at it will at least eliminate any burn in niggles as a possibility.

[mozes]

55 minutes ago, Confused said:

Well this thread has dived all over the place since I last posted regarding my new set up of Mutec REF10 / MC3+USB / sMS-200Ultra / tX-USBultra!

 

Anyway, time for an update.  Regular readers with very good memory may recall that last weekend I set up the Mutec REF10 with the MC3+USB and my existing microRendu, and I could not have been happier with the result.  The improvement from the REF10 was sensational, everything I had hoped for and more.  Better dynamics, more definition everywhere, the most realistic bass I have ever experienced, everything good.  That was last Saturday.

 

On the Sunday, I connected up the SOtM 'bundle' of sMS-200Ultra + tX- USBultra + sPS-500.  Immediate impressions were a little mixed, there was some definite magic there, but somehow I was not enjoying the system as much as I should be.

 

So that was last week.  Following this I had a very busy week, with most of my time spent miles away from my system, no time for listening.  The SOtM kit has been kept powered up 24/7, and I have spent some time feeding it from Roon Radio.  The hours are going on the kit.  

 

Unfortunately, this weekend I was also very busy with many things, but I did get time to for a couple of listening sessions.  To be honest, my initial impression from last weekend is little changed.  That said, I do have a bit more insight into what might be troubling me with the addition of the SOtM kit.  Almost everything seems to be good, but to me the treble seems to be a little overemphasised, and has a slightly unpleasant 'glassy' characteristic to it.  You could say a 'digital edge' is there that I do not think was apparent with the humble microRendu.  Although one caveat here, this is a characteristic that seems far more apparent with some pieces of music.   I am posting this now as an update, and to see if anyone perhaps has any insight into this aspect of the SOtM kit.

 

One thing does occur to me here, I note in the Steve Plaskin review of the Sonore Signature Rendu versus the SOtM ultra bundle he does refer to the microRendu's 'somewhat dark sound'. 

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/audiophile-conundrum-sonore-vs-sotm

 

So maybe this is what I am experiencing?  The change from this darker sound.  Although maybe whatever this dark sound might be, perhaps it is something I happen to like or happens to suit my system, maybe it's just what I am used to, and it's my brain that needs more burn in time.

 

Meanwhile, I have a plan for this coming weekend.  I will try feeding the MC3+USB with three combinations, the sMS-200Ultra with tX-USBultra, the microRendu on it's own, and the micrRendu with the tX-USBultra.  Depending on how this works out, I could try the sMS-200Ultra without the tX-USBultra.  This should give me some insight into what each component is bringing, or is taking away, from the end result.  Maybe this will clarify matters?  We time will tell.

What PSUs are using to power the SMS-200 Ultra and the tX-USBultra?

[lmitche]

I have just started a new thread on the custom (bespoke) motherboard topic here:

 

 

[Confused]

5 minutes ago, mozes said:

What PSUs are using to power the SMS-200 Ultra and the tX-USBultra?

SOtM's sPS-500 with 'Y' cable.  There is a discount price buying the three SOtM items as a bundle, so it is almost a no brainer to get the sPS-500 included, it's almost free, and versatile enough to be utilised elsewhere.  I think if I get to the point where I am happy with the SMS-200Ultra and the tX-USBultra, I would certainly consider trying something else for power.  The SR4 looks tempting  I have to say, especially I benefit from the UK pricing.  Although this would be two SR4's of course!  In this particular respect, it's a shame I have the 12v SOtM items, as this prevents me from trying my LPS-1.

[mozes]

4 minutes ago, Confused said:

SOtM's sPS-500 with 'Y' cable.  There is a discount price buying the three SOtM items as a bundle, so it is almost a no brainer to get the sPS-500 included, it's almost free, and versatile enough to be utilised elsewhere.  I think if I get to the point where I am happy with the SMS-200Ultra and the tX-USBultra, I would certainly consider trying something else for power.  The SR4 looks tempting  I have to say, especially I benefit from the UK pricing.  Although this would be two SR4's of course!  In this particular respect, it's a shame I have the 12v SOtM items, as this prevents me from trying my LPS-1.

My experience with the sPS-500 is that it can be a bit bright but not by much. This is compared to LPS-1. Try to power them with a cheapo 12V lithium batteries. The sPS-500 should more dynamic but if the batteries sound more organic and you feel the glassiness is no longer there, you may have a leakage somewhere due to the Y cable or somewhere else.

[afrancois]

1 hour ago, Confused said:

Well this thread has dived all over the place since I last posted regarding my new set up of Mutec REF10 / MC3+USB / sMS-200Ultra / tX-USBultra!

 

Anyway, time for an update.  Regular readers with very good memory may recall that last weekend I set up the Mutec REF10 with the MC3+USB and my existing microRendu, and I could not have been happier with the result.  The improvement from the REF10 was sensational, everything I had hoped for and more.  Better dynamics, more definition everywhere, the most realistic bass I have ever experienced, everything good.  That was last Saturday.

 

On the Sunday, I connected up the SOtM 'bundle' of sMS-200Ultra + tX- USBultra + sPS-500.  Immediate impressions were a little mixed, there was some definite magic there, but somehow I was not enjoying the system as much as I should be.

 

So that was last week.  Following this I had a very busy week, with most of my time spent miles away from my system, no time for listening.  The SOtM kit has been kept powered up 24/7, and I have spent some time feeding it from Roon Radio.  The hours are going on the kit.  

 

Unfortunately, this weekend I was also very busy with many things, but I did get time to for a couple of listening sessions.  To be honest, my initial impression from last weekend is little changed.  That said, I do have a bit more insight into what might be troubling me with the addition of the SOtM kit.  Almost everything seems to be good, but to me the treble seems to be a little overemphasised, and has a slightly unpleasant 'glassy' characteristic to it.  You could say a 'digital edge' is there that I do not think was apparent with the humble microRendu.  Although one caveat here, this is a characteristic that seems far more apparent with some pieces of music.   I am posting this now as an update, and to see if anyone perhaps has any insight into this aspect of the SOtM kit.

 

One thing does occur to me here, I note in the Steve Plaskin review of the Sonore Signature Rendu versus the SOtM ultra bundle he does refer to the microRendu's 'somewhat dark sound'. 

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/audiophile-conundrum-sonore-vs-sotm

 

So maybe this is what I am experiencing?  The change from this darker sound.  Although maybe whatever this dark sound might be, perhaps it is something I happen to like or happens to suit my system, maybe it's just what I am used to, and it's my brain that needs more burn in time.

 

Meanwhile, I have a plan for this coming weekend.  I will try feeding the MC3+USB with three combinations, the sMS-200Ultra with tX-USBultra, the microRendu on it's own, and the micrRendu with the tX-USBultra.  Depending on how this works out, I could try the sMS-200Ultra without the tX-USBultra.  This should give me some insight into what each component is bringing, or is taking away, from the end result.  Maybe this will clarify matters?  We time will tell.

21

I have a sMS-200Ultra, sPS-500 and IR. I find this combination also a bit bright when connecting the sPS-500 directly to the sMS-200Ultra. That's why I've put an LPS-1 in between. The sPS-500 is now powering two LPS-1's.

[mozes]

 

15 minutes ago, afrancois said:

The sPS-500 is now powering two LPS-1's.

Your LPS-1s must be very happy!

[LTG2010]

1 hour ago, Confused said:

That said, it has spent most of this time powered up but idle, that is not actually streaming.

Definitely needs to output a signal, so components are stressed /fully warm up, capacitors charge and discharge, chips & resistors etc - those heatsinks need to get hot.

 

22 minutes ago, afrancois said:

I have a sMS-200Ultra, sPS-500 and IR. I find this combination also a bit bright when connecting the sPS-500 directly to the sMS-200Ultra. That's why I've put an LPS-1 in between. The sPS-500 is now powering two LPS-1's.

Quite surprised by your's and Mozes findings and I don't dispute them -I suppose system synergy is a must, I have both LPS1 and sPS500 and in my test LPS1 had the strongest treble which I prefered the Sps500 sounded slightly recessed, however there was a a glare and coursness in the upper mid with LPS1 compared to the sPS liquid smoothness and a much stonger bass punch and definition with the sPS500.Things change for the better with 2 LPS1's the lack of amps seem's to count so comparing 2 LPS1's with a sPS500 might be fairer.

[mozes]

4 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

Quite surprised by your's and Mozes findings and I don't dispute them -I suppose system synergy is a must, I have both LPS1 and sPS500 and in my test LPS1 had the strongest treble which I prefered the Sps500 sounded slightly recessed, however there was a a glare and coursness in the upper mid with LPS1 compared to the sPS liquid smoothness and a much stonger bass punch and definition with the sPS500.Things change for the better with 2 LPS1's the lack of amps seem's to count so comparing 2 LPS1's with a sPS500 might be fairer.

I found that the LPS-1 really likes to be energized by a LPS or a 12V lithium battery. It is much better than the SMPS even when it is shunted. 

[afrancois]

17 minutes ago, mozes said:

 

Your LPS-1s must be very happy!

And so is Uptone. I’m almost embarrassed to say how many LPS-1 I have. Latest is a 1.2

[mozes]

10 minutes ago, afrancois said:

And so is Uptone. I’m almost embarrassed to say how many LPS-1 I have. Latest is a 1.2

I hear you, don’t ask me how many I have  

[Cornan]

19 minutes ago, mozes said:

I found that the LPS-1 really likes to be energized by a LPS or a 12V lithium battery. It is much better than the SMPS even when it is shunted. 

 

Makes me wonder how a LT3045 in a feeder supply solution for the LPS-1.2 will be like! Hmmm?  

 

[mozes]

Just now, Cornan said:

 

Makes me wonder how a LT3045 in a feeder supply solution for the LPS-1.2 will be like! Hmmm?  

 

You need 2 amps at 12V so off the self boards are not enough

[Cornan]

4 minutes ago, mozes said:

You need 2 amps at 12V so off the self boards are not enough

 

No but a Stammheim 3A/LT3045 will surely do the job. Luckily I have two to try and a LPS-1.2 on the way!

 

Also this little trick with two LT3045 1A/12v boards will work as well 

 

 

[Confused]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

My experience with the sPS-500 is that it can be a bit bright but not by much. This is compared to LPS-1. Try to power them with a cheapo 12V lithium batteries. The sPS-500 should more dynamic but if the batteries sound more organic and you feel the glassiness is no longer there, you may have a leakage somewhere due to the Y cable or somewhere else.

Is this the kind of thing you are suggesting?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TalentCell-Rechargeable-3000mAh-Lithium-External/dp/B072HR211P/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1520260940&sr=8-8&keywords=12v+lithium+battery+pack

 

 

[mozes]

7 minutes ago, Confused said:

Is this the kind of thing you are suggesting?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TalentCell-Rechargeable-3000mAh-Lithium-External/dp/B072HR211P/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1520260940&sr=8-8&keywords=12v+lithium+battery+pack

 

 

Any battery that puts out 2 amps should work. I use these from eBay.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ca%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F182822236511

[mozes]

29 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

No but a Stammheim 3A/LT3045 will surely do the job. Luckily I have two to try and a LPS-1.2 on the way!

 

Also this little trick with two LT3045 1A/12v boards will work as well 

 

 

Thanks for sharing, I may try the 1A/12V board between the sPS-500 and the wireless bridge. I think that it is a waste to use LT3045 for feeding the LPS-1. All what we need is to block leakages, so I use a cheapo LPS and it works perfectly. 

[manishex]

5 minutes ago, mozes said:

Any battery that puts out 2 amps should work. I use these from eBay.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ca%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F182822236511

Is that to power the lps-1? How is the LT3045 connected? 

[mozes]

15 minutes ago, manishex said:

Is that to power the lps-1? How is the LT3045 connected? 

I recommended these batteries for test purposes with the SOTM gear. I don’t recommend powering your LPS-1 with unregulated batteries unless you are sure that the voltage won’t exceed 12V. I measure the output of each battery before I use it with my LPS-1s. Alex warned us about using unregulated PSUs or batteries many times before. 

I don’t use any LT3045 with the batteries.

[Confused]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

Any battery that puts out 2 amps should work. I use these from eBay.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.ca%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F182822236511

 

OK, understood.  I have ordered one per the link I attached earlier, it can run 3A at 12V, something to add to the mix in my upcoming testing. 

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, mozes said:

Thanks for sharing, I may try the 1A/12V board between the sPS-500 and the wireless bridge. I think that it is a waste to use LT3045 for feeding the LPS-1. All what we need is to block leakages, so I use a cheapo LPS and it works perfectly. 

 

Your welcome Moussa! Personally I am not that convinced LT3045 will be a waste feeding the LPS-1.2. None-the-less I intend to find out quite soon if LT3045s improves both pre and post LPS-1.2. 

[mozes]

5 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Your welcome Moussa! Personally I am not that convinced LT3045 will be a waste feeding the LPS-1.2. None-the-less I intend to find out quite soon if LT3045s improves both pre and post LPS-1.2. 

You're the man for this kind of stuff! Keep us posted

[austinpop]

11 hours ago, Confused said:

Well this thread has dived all over the place since I last posted regarding my new set up of Mutec REF10 / MC3+USB / sMS-200Ultra / tX-USBultra!

 

Anyway, time for an update.  Regular readers with very good memory may recall that last weekend I set up the Mutec REF10 with the MC3+USB and my existing microRendu, and I could not have been happier with the result.  The improvement from the REF10 was sensational, everything I had hoped for and more.  Better dynamics, more definition everywhere, the most realistic bass I have ever experienced, everything good.  That was last Saturday.

 

On the Sunday, I connected up the SOtM 'bundle' of sMS-200Ultra + tX- USBultra + sPS-500.  Immediate impressions were a little mixed, there was some definite magic there, but somehow I was not enjoying the system as much as I should be.

 

So that was last week.  Following this I had a very busy week, with most of my time spent miles away from my system, no time for listening.  The SOtM kit has been kept powered up 24/7, and I have spent some time feeding it from Roon Radio.  The hours are going on the kit.  

 

Unfortunately, this weekend I was also very busy with many things, but I did get time to for a couple of listening sessions.  To be honest, my initial impression from last weekend is little changed.  That said, I do have a bit more insight into what might be troubling me with the addition of the SOtM kit.  Almost everything seems to be good, but to me the treble seems to be a little overemphasised, and has a slightly unpleasant 'glassy' characteristic to it.  You could say a 'digital edge' is there that I do not think was apparent with the humble microRendu.  Although one caveat here, this is a characteristic that seems far more apparent with some pieces of music.   I am posting this now as an update, and to see if anyone perhaps has any insight into this aspect of the SOtM kit.

 

One thing does occur to me here, I note in the Steve Plaskin review of the Sonore Signature Rendu versus the SOtM ultra bundle he does refer to the microRendu's 'somewhat dark sound'. 

 

https://www.audiostream.com/content/audiophile-conundrum-sonore-vs-sotm

 

So maybe this is what I am experiencing?  The change from this darker sound.  Although maybe whatever this dark sound might be, perhaps it is something I happen to like or happens to suit my system, maybe it's just what I am used to, and it's my brain that needs more burn in time.

 

Meanwhile, I have a plan for this coming weekend.  I will try feeding the MC3+USB with three combinations, the sMS-200Ultra with tX-USBultra, the microRendu on it's own, and the micrRendu with the tX-USBultra.  Depending on how this works out, I could try the sMS-200Ultra without the tX-USBultra.  This should give me some insight into what each component is bringing, or is taking away, from the end result.  Maybe this will clarify matters?  We time will tell.

 

Definitely give it some more burn in time.  

 

I've spoken often about the SOtM house sound being a little thin. I think some of that is perceptual. The Ref 10-level clocking throughout the chain is delivering a huge increase in resolution, and sometimes that can come across as analytical.

 

In any case, I find that once you lock in the clock and power improvements, you can fine tune and tailor the tonality with cable and PSU choices. However, the resolution from superior clocking, once lost, cannot be regained.

 

So give it some time, and then decide where to tinker.