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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

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So I have a wireless dongle on Amazon PRime order (arrives Saturday). I also just today tried bridging by leaving the Mellanox fiber nic as my internet connection (easier to do as it plays that role normally)) and hooked up a copper Cat6a direct from my mobo ethernet to the uRendu, thus removing a fiber/fmc/copper from Diablo to my uRendu. I even added a USB to ethernet adapter (no cable attached) as a third bridged component. Same results; can ping the uRendu IP address but HQplayer doesn't see it. Stay tuned.

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Unfortunately this is not a router. You can plug a wifi router into it however. I have the same setup here.

Thank you for looking into that. I want to avoid plugging in another device in my system. So can I get another regular wireless router, use it bridge mode and achieve the same thing as you described above (connect lan port of Router #1 to wan port of Router #2)? Is there any other setup I need to do in Router #2? In my current Router #1, I have to set up the Internet page (Internet IP and DNS) as Get Automatically from ISP. Would I use the same settings in Router #2?

 

In looking at the settings of my R7000 Nighthawk wireless router, I see I can put it in Router OR Bridge mode, not both at the same time.

Edited by tboooe

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Thank you for looking into that. I want to avoid plugging in another device in my system. So can I get another regular wireless router, use it bridge mode and achieve the same thing as you described above (connect lan port of Router #1 to wan port of Router #2)? Is there any other setup I need to do in Router #2? In my current Router #1, I have to set up the Internet page (Internet IP and DNS) as Get Automatically from ISP. Would I use the same settings in Router #2?

Probably best to backup a bit.

 

Do you have any subnet 2 devices hanging off the wireless bridge? Will they become subnet 1 devices in the new setup?

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Probably best to backup a bit.

 

Do you have any subnet 2 devices hanging off the wireless bridge? Will they become subnet 1 devices in the new setup?

I have my Server PC (Roonserver and HQP) connected to my wireless bridge. My Server PC has a dual port NIC that is bridged. Port #1 is connected to the wireless bridge and is assigned a fixed IP address on my home subnet (192.168.2.xx). The NAA PC (i3) is connected to Port #2 of the Server PC and is also assigned an IP on my home subnet, though I could have probably used a different subnet. My main concern was being able to access the NAA PC via remote desktop.

 

If I give the NAA PC an IP on a different subnet will I still be able to access it remotely?

 

Anyway, thank you so much for helping me out.

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Regarding the ssh login account of Eunhasu, I've contacted [email protected] She gave me the information but said that it's confidential. So I'm not allowed to share it with everyone.

 

However May gave me a good news which I quote it here:

 

"and we are going to change the settings on Eunhasu to be able to make the Static IP."

 

She didn't mention when the new feature will be ready but let's hope it'll coming soon.

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It's interesting how these little improvements can add up to something quite significant and very meaningful.

 

Some have suggested there's no reason that two music players that have bit-perfect output should sound any different and these filters definitely counter that theory. These AO sound signature/filters are not in the music path at all. According to AudioPhil, they merely affect CPU/memory handling and yet from 1A to 4D, you go from a more precise sound to a warmer and lusher sound and with this direct connection, in my system, there is no mistaking the difference.

 

The common strategy that AudioPhil had always suggested was to use setting 4D for the Audio PC (renderer) as it resulted in a smoother and "tube-like" presentation and to consider something like setting 1B for the control PC as this resulted in a more precise and detailed presentation. I believe these are his personal preferences for a dual PC setup. Well, we have no option to impact the sound signature of either the mR or sMS-200 but what I have found in my own comparisons is that the mR has greater body and maybe a touch more organic bloom to it while the sMS-200 has greater detail clarity and precision. Which is better is up to the user but as for my personal preferences, the sMS-200 has a slight edge since it just sounds more resolving. With my mR, I first went with 1A on my Mac Mini and detail clarity with the the mR went up considerably which I found very much to my liking. In fact, it felt as if my mR had become transformed into the sMS-200 as far as detail clarity but 1A resulted in a fairly flat and almost mechanical presentation. 1B improved soundstage depth and fluidity but 1C was my preferred sweet spot in the end. Still plenty of detail clarity but much more depth. These filters alone are worth the price of admission of AO for me in this setup.

 

My sMS-200 is still out but upon its return, I will be surprised if I prefer the same signature and filter settings.

 

I have now proven to myself through blind testing that Process Lasso adds a small but still meaningful improvement, especially when Roon is run in Bitsum Highest Performance mode. I am not yet convinced Fidelizer Pro is adding anything further.

 

Once again, thanks for your insights into AO. I've just tried it and written up my experience here - http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/auralic-aries-mini-vs-sonore-microrendu-vs-soul-music-sms-200-listening-impressions-31499/index2.html#post634586 . I applied AO and some additional W10 tweaks.

 

Sure enough, I did find that the AO filter settings can tune the sound signature of the 3 endpoints in my comparison. In my case, my preferences were:

  • sMS-200 - 3C
  • mR - 2C
  • Aries Mini - 2B

 

Another important finding for me was that, finally, with AO and W10 tweaks, I am hearing better SQ without FMCs in the direct connection to the bridge! This was one of the differences I had in my findings with you guys in the past. Now I hear it clearly.

 

I haven't yet tried Process Lasso, but I did manually set MinimServer (or technically javaw.exe) to Realtime priority. Is there anything else PL does other than enabling persistent setting of priorities?

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Regarding the ssh login account of Eunhasu, I've contacted [email protected] She gave me the information but said that it's confidential. So I'm not allowed to share it with everyone.

 

However May gave me a good news which I quote it here:

 

"and we are going to change the settings on Eunhasu to be able to make the Static IP."

 

She didn't mention when the new feature will be ready but let's hope it'll coming soon.

Wow, this is excellent news! Thank you for pushing for this. Now if only Sonore would do the same with the mR.

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Once again, thanks for your insights into AO. I've just tried it and written up my experience here - http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/auralic-aries-mini-vs-sonore-microrendu-vs-soul-music-sms-200-listening-impressions-31499/index2.html#post634586 . I applied AO and some additional W10 tweaks.

 

Sure enough, I did find that the AO filter settings can tune the sound signature of the 3 endpoints in my comparison. In my case, my preferences were:

  • sMS-200 - 3C
  • mR - 2C
  • Aries Mini - 2B

 

Another important finding for me was that, finally, with AO and W10 tweaks, I am hearing better SQ without FMCs in the direct connection to the bridge! This was one of the differences I had in my findings with you guys in the past. Now I hear it clearly.

 

I haven't yet tried Process Lasso, but I did manually set MinimServer (or technically javaw.exe) to Realtime priority. Is there anything else PL does other than enabling persistent setting of priorities?

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have found the sound signatures/filters alone to be worth the price of AO.

It's possible PL won't add anything further for you but it supposedly does some proprietary things. You have 45 days to try it for free.

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Wow, this is excellent news! Thank you for pushing for this. Now if only Sonore would do the same with the mR.

The credit belongs to you. It's your pioneer adventures and all others' efforts that make the manufacturer willing to change. Kudos to you.

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Thank you to the OP for this tweak.

 

I used an Anker USB to ethernet adapter plugged into the Paul Pang USB hub with a LPS. I assigned a static IP address to it and bridged it with the main network! That by-passed the TP-Link switch & MC110CS FMCs I had been using.

The clarity of the soundscape is even better, the backdrop seemingly dead quiet!

For some reason that I have not figured out, when I insert the FMC loop into this direct setup the stereo image deteriorates, the complete opposite of what I was used to!

 

Dual core Win7 PC/J River MC 22/Paul Pang V2 USB (+LPS)>Anker USB/Ethernet>Tera Grand CAT-7 Ultra flat 1.5m>microRendu (+ LPS-1)>DIY USB cable>Naim DAC V1

 

 

I found the very affordable Tera Grand 'CAT-7 Ultra flat' with the braided outer jacket to be excellent in that position, among the few that I tried including the AQ Vodka! - but I understand there are cheap counterfeits out there (so -mind where you purchase from if interested).

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I have my Server PC (Roonserver and HQP) connected to my wireless bridge. My Server PC has a dual port NIC that is bridged. Port #1 is connected to the wireless bridge and is assigned a fixed IP address on my home subnet (192.168.2.xx). The NAA PC (i3) is connected to Port #2 of the Server PC and is also assigned an IP on my home subnet, though I could have probably used a different subnet. My main concern was being able to access the NAA PC via remote desktop.

 

If I give the NAA PC an IP on a different subnet will I still be able to access it remotely?

 

Anyway, thank you so much for helping me out.

Hi tboooe,

 

If you assign a NAA IP address via a DHCP server running on your server PC, you will get the NAA PC online and talking to the server PC directly. Port 2 will be on the second network so the server PC should be able to remote into the NAA PC but only from the server PC. The server PC will be the only machine that can remote into the NAA. This way you remote into the server from the home network and then remote into the NAA.

 

You could try to run a virtual router software on the server PC. Or fuss with routing tables. http://superuser.com/questions/977538/how-can-i-add-routing-to-entire-differentfrom-gw-subnet This could take a lot of time and there are no guarantees.

 

Also you can buy a router or do nothing. The latter would be my recommendation for now, unless you have a spare router lying around the house, or can obtain one cheaply.

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Hi tboooe,

 

If you assign a NAA IP address via a DHCP server running on your server PC, you will get the NAA PC online and talking to the server PC directly. Port 2 will be on the second network so the server PC should be able to remote into the NAA PC but only from the server PC. The server PC will be the only machine that can remote into the NAA. This way you remote into the server from the home network and then remote into the NAA.

 

You could try to run a virtual router software on the server PC. Or fuss with routing tables. windows 7 - How can I add routing to entire different(from gw) subnet? - Super User This could take a lot of time and there are no guarantees.

 

Also you can buy a router or do nothing. The latter would be my recommendation for now, unless you have a spare router lying around the house, or can obtain one cheaply.

 

Thank you very much. Since my Server is headless having to use it to remote into the NAA is not ideal.

 

If I add a router would I be able to remote into the Server and NAA from any PC on my home network (Subnet #1)?

 

Instead of a router it looks like I could use Route Add in command line? Seems pretty easy. My router also has an add Static Route feature. Is the following assumptions correct?

 

Destination IP - address of my Server and NAA on subnet #2

IP Subnet Mask - 255.255.255.0

Gateway IP - not sure what to put here, can this be the address of my wireless bridge on subnet #1?

SR2.PNG

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Thank you very much. Since my Server is headless having to use it to remote into the NAA is not ideal.

 

If I add a router would I be able to remote into the Server and NAA from any PC on my home network (Subnet #1)?

 

Instead of a router it looks like I could use Route Add in command line? Seems pretty easy. My router also has an add Static Route feature. Is the following assumptions correct?

 

Destination IP - address of my Server and NAA on subnet #2

IP Subnet Mask - 255.255.255.0

Gateway IP - not sure what to put here, can this be the address of my wireless bridge on subnet #1?

SR2.PNG

If I add a router would I be able to remote into the Server and NAA from any PC on my home network (Subnet #1)? Yes

 

You may have success with Route Add within your router. I don't know. Routed work arounds can be unpredictable and very implementation dependent.

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I will wait to post until tmrw (when the wifi dongle arrives) but I am afraid I am doing something basically wrong.

 

Regardless, in the long run I have the following requirements:

* access to my Synology NAS from BOTH the HQP server (currently sharing the Diablo fiber switch via Mellanox NIC) and my home office desktop (currently direct to router via good ole copper)

* I play both 2channel music (via uRendu and Holo dac, for example) and multichannel (when I then swap FMC'd ethernet over to my small Windows WS2012 NAA for the exaSound, being that it is allergic to the uRendu). In fact, I sometimes use the Windows NAA for 2 channel if testing drivers, etc.

* all of the above are headless so I use (currently) Windows RDC to access them (either on my home office desktop or on my ipads).

 

So, I am open to suggestions to accomplish these three fundamentals with either bridging or frankly doing private networks (like I did when doing JPlay back in the day), either way direct from HQP machine. I have multiple ethernet ports (now that I found my USB to ethernet adapter, that joins my Mellanox fiber NIC and mobo ethernet; I don't plan on using the wifi dongle except to somehow fake HQPlayer into seeing my NAA as per Clipper, etc).

 

If I were to do private networks I'd likely need to very strict picture-based instructions (via PM, no need to hijack here). Thanks. I really want to report back the sq differences, but kinda frustrated right now.

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Regardless, in the long run I have the following requirements:

* access to my Synology NAS from BOTH the HQP server (currently sharing the Diablo fiber switch via Mellanox NIC) and my home office desktop (currently direct to router via good ole copper)

* I play both 2channel music (via uRendu and Holo dac, for example) and multichannel (when I then swap FMC'd ethernet over to my small Windows WS2012 NAA for the exaSound, being that it is allergic to the uRendu). In fact, I sometimes use the Windows NAA for 2 channel if testing drivers, etc.

* all of the above are headless so I use (currently) Windows RDC to access them (either on my home office desktop or on my ipads).

 

.

Ted, I totally get the frustration. Your requirements are almost identical to mine except that I do not use a microrendu (yet) and I dont do multichannel. Therefore I cannot speak to those requirements but I do know that I got this bridged network working with HQP/Roon PC + NAA PC. I will send you a PM. Perhaps we can plan to speak on phone to troubleshoot.

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Ted, I totally get the frustration. Your requirements are almost identical to mine except that I do not use a microrendu (yet) and I dont do multichannel. Therefore I cannot speak to those requirements but I do know that I got this bridged network working with HQP/Roon PC + NAA PC. I will send you a PM. Perhaps we can plan to speak on phone to troubleshoot.

 

Thanks, responded. BTW, I am open to any creative solution for any of these issues, including moving some of my oft-used 2 channel music onto the home office desktop (JRiver and 2 channel only), relegating my NAS for direct if needed. My home office desktop is purely either background music, testing or breaking in new DACs. Not a big deal. My NAS, however, is chock full of music (about 20TB) the largest being all the large-file multichannel music I have from being part of the NativeDSD team. I cannot envision putting 20TB on a local drive, but I've been wrong before. :)

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Thank you to the OP for this tweak.

 

I used an Anker USB to ethernet adapter plugged into the Paul Pang USB hub with a LPS. I assigned a static IP address to it and bridged it with the main network! That by-passed the TP-Link switch & MC110CS FMCs I had been using.

The clarity of the soundscape is even better, the backdrop seemingly dead quiet!

For some reason that I have not figured out, when I insert the FMC loop into this direct setup the stereo image deteriorates, the complete opposite of what I was used to!

 

Dual core Win7 PC/J River MC 22/Paul Pang V2 USB (+LPS)>Anker USB/Ethernet>Tera Grand CAT-7 Ultra flat 1.5m>microRendu (+ LPS-1)>DIY USB cable>Naim DAC V1

 

 

I found the very affordable Tera Grand 'CAT-7 Ultra flat' with the braided outer jacket to be excellent in that position, among the few that I tried including the AQ Vodka! - but I understand there are cheap counterfeits out there (so -mind where you purchase from if interested).

Thanks for your post. It seems the evidence is mounting that these FMCs in the direct path can cause more harm than good. These FMCs have switching voltage regulators. I suspect they also have inferior clocks and so the good they might do with regards to blocking RF noise could be offset by these other problems.

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Thanks for your post. It seems the evidence is mounting that these FMCs in the direct path can cause more harm than good. These FMCs have switching voltage regulators. I suspect they also have inferior clocks and so the good they might do with regards to blocking RF noise could be offset by these other problems.

 

Yes, I agree.

 

What I found was that the direct path sounds better - overall - but it's not cut and dried. The FMCs do seem to grow the soundstage, but I also noticed more glare and harshness.

 

So I agree - there are likely competing forces at play with FMCs in the path, and depending on the rest of the chain, the net result could either tilt in favor of FMCs or without.

 

I really wonder what something like an Etalon isolator would do instead. Anyone want to send one along for testing? :D

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Yes, I agree.

 

What I found was that the direct path sounds better - overall - but it's not cut and dried. The FMCs do seem to grow the soundstage, but I also noticed more glare and harshness.

 

So I agree - there are likely competing forces at play with FMCs in the path, and depending on the rest of the chain, the net result could either tilt in favor of FMCs or without.

 

I really wonder what something like an Etalon isolator would do instead. Anyone want to send one along for testing? :D

 

Here you go, Austinpop. This is the same last model made by Topaz. I bought a cleaner looking one, but I know this guy will take $70 on offer with shipping. Great deal for someone who wants a good isolator. These 1kva units are made for 120V and have male/female receptacle built in. He has 2 left.

 

MGE UPS SYSTEMS 1.0KVA 120VAC ULTRA-ISOLATION TRANSFORMER 91001-32T *JCH* | eBay

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Yes, I agree.

 

What I found was that the direct path sounds better - overall - but it's not cut and dried. The FMCs do seem to grow the soundstage, but I also noticed more glare and harshness.

 

So I agree - there are likely competing forces at play with FMCs in the path, and depending on the rest of the chain, the net result could either tilt in favor of FMCs or without.

 

I really wonder what something like an Etalon isolator would do instead. Anyone want to send one along for testing? :D

I'm not familiar with that device but a passive iso may be the way to go.

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Sounds like you have the recipe for the perfect switch, Alex. I wish I knew some of this before I sent out this cheap Trend Net switch for clock modification. It indeed has this "GREENnet" power saving feature and I was suspicious of it but went with it anyway since I already owned this switch and had it lying around. I'm always looking forward to anything you and John come up with. I hope your audiophile switch becomes a reality sooner than later.

 

Good to know about the Broadcoms. Both my LAN ports (Mac Mini + Thunderbolt LAN) are Broadcoms. Definitely no complaints.

 

One interesting thing to note is that old switches tend to sound better than new ones. Modern switch chips tend to turn off most of the circuitry in between packets, this produces large transients on the power/ground planes. The old chips were designed in an era where going for low power was not the highest priority in the chip design, thus they usually do not generate nearly as much PG noise as newer designs.

 

I'm running my microRendu from an old 100Mb switch that is at least 10 years old and has a linear power supply, with this driving the microRendu I don't seem to have much of the issues all of you are having with different cables etc.

 

(Uh Oh, I think I just started a buying frenzy for old switches on ebay)

 

John S.

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I finally get direct connection working between 2 wired Ethernet connections without bridging with existing laptop wifi. I adopted the suggested trick here to add in one additional unconnected usb wireless Ethernet adapter (dlink dwa-137) to the i5 Win 10 Home laptop. The default laptop's Ethernet port is direct connect to fmc converter and further connected to Audiolinux NAA and then to dac. Another one usb port is connected with usb-to-ethernet adapter and further connected to one tplink wireless n router. So I added these 2 Ethernet connections and the one unconnected wifi adapter to the bridge.

 

I set the bridge properties for IP4 and dns to the tplink router. That is it, and everything works fine. Now I let it play continuously to see whether it will stop abruptly after about an hour of playing.

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