A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[kilroy]

Just now, rickca said:

There's also a Larry at HDPLEX.

Yup.

[rickca]

31 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Take a look and tell me you're seeing this too.

Let your little light shine.

[auricgoldfinger]

7 minutes ago, d_elm said:

Those with the sMS-200ultra are not so fortunate as the sCLK-EX is mounted upside down and the LEDs can only be seen when

the boards are removed from the box.  T8 six point torex for the box screws.

 

The torx screws on my sMS-200ultra are so tight that I can't remove them.  All I do is destroy the threads.  Very frustrating because I want to change the voltage setting.

[ElviaCaprice]

Often less is more.  The findings on Eric's system is a great example of just that.  Every connection, every device is an added liability to SQ.  The more simple and tighter one can make their system chain, the more likely the SQ will be at it's best, let alone price.

[austinpop]

16 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Often less is more.  The findings on Eric's system is a great example of just that.  Every connection, every device is an added liability to SQ.  The more simple and tighter one can make their system chain, the more likely the SQ will be at it's best, let alone price.

 

Often. But not always!

 

This is my point. There are no self-evident truths in computer audio. Yet. 

 

The less dogmatic you allow yourself to be, the more nimbly you can adapt and adopt new advances in the field.

[limniscate]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

Hello? Is this thing on?

 

A little tip for those of you using a reference clock with the tX-USBultra. Nominally, there is no visual indicator on the exterior to show whether a reference clock attached to the BNC input on the back is working correctly.

 

Well, there is. All credit to @limniscate for pointing this out to me.  I just never used my eyes to notice this before.

 

Peeking through the top of the tX into the box, you'll notice a blinking green LED on the sCLK-EX board. What's less obvious, is that adjacent to it is another LED that is unlit by default. When you connect a clock on the input, and it correctly syncs with the sCLK-EX board, this 2nd LED lights up with a steady green.

 

Take a look and tell me you're seeing this too.

Mine works differently.  The green led is always blinking unless you connect a reference clock.  Then it stays solid.

[KingRex]

Are the 2 switches on the same phase from the main panel?   Is the switch at your panel on a very short 14 awg conductor and the switch in your listening room on a 10 awg.  I am an electrician and read extensivey about wiring and grounding. It only takes fractions of a volt difference between devices for the stray voltage to travel along the shield or ground of your equipment and you now have a Loop.  What about your cat7. Are you grounding both ends - Don't.  

 

Now I don't know anything about how digital gear reacts to ground loops, but maybe you are experiencing just that.  Try and clean up your circuit.   If it clears the voltage differential and the 2 switches sound the same or better than 1 switch, you will have made a great find for many of us.  

[Johnseye]

5 minutes ago, KingRex said:

Are the 2 switches on the same phase from the main panel?   Is the switch at your panel on a very short 14 awg conductor and the switch in your listening room on a 10 awg.  I am an electrician and read extensivey about wiring and grounding. It only takes fractions of a volt difference between devices for the stray voltage to travel along the shield or ground of your equipment and you now have a Loop.  What about your cat7. Are you grounding both ends - Don't.  

 

Now I don't know anything about how digital gear reacts to ground loops, but maybe you are experiencing just that.  Try and clean up your circuit.   If it clears the voltage differential and the 2 switches sound the same or better than 1 switch, you will have made a great find for many of us.  

 

I was thinking the same thing.

[austinpop]

45 minutes ago, limniscate said:

Mine works differently.  The green led is always blinking unless you connect a reference clock.  Then it stays solid.

 

Do you not have a second LED next to the blinking one? Are you saying they both light up and stay solid? Or just the one LED that is blinking goes solid?

[austinpop]

http://www.sotm-audio.com/files/Accessories/sCLK-EX/sCLK-EX_Operating_Instructions_Rev1.5_EN.pdf

 

3. The Detect LED turns on once the clock output synchronizes to the external master clock input. The Detect LED located next to the Operate LED and
the Operate LED blinks once the sCLK-EX operates normally. 

[flkin]

My tX-USBultra green light inside the case blinks when using without the external clock and stays solid once the OCXO clock is attached.

[seeteeyou]

Now that we're talking about LAN cables, let's take this opportunity to compare the traditional Crimp On Type versus another PCB Type called REVConnect (Reliable / Easy / Versatile)

 

http://info.belden.com/ecos/revconnect

 

 

 

https://www.bicsi.org/uploadedfiles/bicsi_conferences/winter/2017/presentations/GS_THURS_1.pdf#page=32

             

 

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/282305/Old/New Belden.com - Master Resources/ESD - Premium Content/Cabling to Support 4K UHD HDBaseT Applications.pdf#page=8

https://www.bicsi.org/uploadedfiles/bicsi_conferences/winter/2017/presentations/GS_THURS_1.pdf#page=24

 

Shielded ones with Belden 10GX62F are sold by Laird

 

https://www.markertek.com/product/cat6a-revmm-006/laird-cat6a-revmm-belden-cat6a-revconnect-rj45-male-to-male-poe-cable-assemblies-6-foot

http://www.lairddigitalcinema.com/Product.asp?cat=CABLES&subcat=DATACAB&prodclass=CAT6CAB&baseitem=CAT6A-REVMM-006&search=0&off=0&showreturn=0

 

10GX62F

https://catalog.belden.com/techdata/EN/10GX62F_techdata.pdf

http://ecs.beldenapac.com/html/en/Products/Enterprise/copper/cat6system/copper_112.html

 

Unshielded ones could be built by PacRad (Data → CAT6A → Belden)

 

https://www.pacrad.com/custom-cable-builder

 

Or get some unshielded plugs

 

https://www.pacrad.com/belden-rvafpubk-s1-revconnect-10gig-plug-utp-black.html

 

Followed by one of those 25' Belden 10GXS12 cables

 

https://www.pacrad.com/products/cable-assemblies/data/noshorts-cat6a-revconnect-black-patch-cord-25-ft.html

 

10GXS12

https://catalog.belden.com/techdata/EN/10GXS12_techdata.pdf

http://ecs.beldenapac.com/html/en/Products/Enterprise/copper/cat6system/copper_95.html

 

Then the plugs on both ends could be installed with bare hands as shown around the 00:04:40 mark

 

http://youtu.be/c4DdaIDbeX8#t=280

 

[zoltan]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

http://www.sotm-audio.com/files/Accessories/sCLK-EX/sCLK-EX_Operating_Instructions_Rev1.5_EN.pdf

 

3. The Detect LED turns on once the clock output synchronizes to the external master clock input. The Detect LED located next to the Operate LED and
the Operate LED blinks once the sCLK-EX operates normally. 

Is this the same for the SMS-200 ultra, I wonder?

[Johnseye]

4 hours ago, zoltan said:

Is this the same for the SMS-200 ultra, I wonder?

 

Yes.  Any Ultra as they use the sclk.

[Confused]

OK -I'm stuck!

 

Today I have been setting up my new kit, sMS-200Ultra to tX-USBultra to Mutec MC3+USB, all with REF10.

 

If I run the system sMS-200Ultra to Mutec MC3+USB, everything works fine.  The problem I have is that I cannot get the system to work with the tX-USBultra between the sMS-200 and the MC3+USB.  I have checked the connections and the little input selection switches, but no, I cannot get the system working with the tX-USBultra in the chain.

 

Any ideas?

[dancause]

@Confused, I had the same problem. Check the tx voltage setting. Mine was 12v and I was expecting it to be 9v.  I had to install a jumper on r342. 

 

 

[Confused]

17 minutes ago, dancause said:

@Confused, I had the same problem. Check the tx voltage setting. Mine was 12v and I was expecting it to be 9v.  I had to install a jumper on r342. 

 

 

 

I have gone for 12v also, and yes, I had exactly the same issue, the sPS-500 was set to a lower voltage, although curiously the sMS-200Ultra seamed to work fine with it's lower voltage input.  Shame on me I guess for not checking, the thing is I bought the whole lot as a bundle package, so assumed the voltage would be set correctly.  Never assume they say, and thinking about it I should have checked.  At least I have sent a too low voltage into the kit, which I'm thinking is better than inputting too higher voltage and meting the innards.

 

Anyway, thanks for the tip Mr dancause, you are my new best friend!  

[oilpaint]

@confused - I have the same problem - using ROON/HQP to modded switch to 200ultra to tx-usbultra to mutec to Devialet - HQP won’t recognize anything. I ordered a 7-9v tx-usb ultra. I get music if I take the mutec out of the loop or take the usbultra out, but not with everything in. The strange thing is I think (could be confused) it worked initially until I flicked the usb power on/off button on the back of the usbultra - the music instantly stopped and hasn’t worked since.

 

Kamal at Cruz (where I bought the SOtM equip.) suggested I try to shut down and restart in a specific order - but that didn’t work. Maybe I’ll try to up the volts.....if you see a flash that would be my kit up in flames....

[auricgoldfinger]

2 minutes ago, oilpaint said:

@confused - I have the same problem - using ROON/HQP to modded switch to 200ultra to tx-usbultra to mutec to Devialet - HQP won’t recognize anything. I ordered a 7-9v tx-usb ultra. I get music if I take the mutec out of the loop or take the usbultra out, but not with everything in. The strange thing is I think (could be confused) it worked initially until I flicked the usb power on/off button on the back of the usbultra - the music instantly stopped and hasn’t worked since.

 

Kamal at Cruz (where I bought the SOtM equip.) suggested I try to shut down and restart in a specific order - but that didn’t work. Maybe I’ll try to up the volts.....if you see a flash that would be my kit up in flames....

 

Have you tried contacting May at SOtM?

[Confused]

Well, it has been an interesting day and apart from the voltage issue above, I am happy with how things are going so far.  Last week both my Mutec REF10 and SOtM Ultra bundle arrived.  I have had the REF10 plugged in for a little over two days now to settle in, and this morning started setting everything up.

 

A few observations, I bought 3 RG216 cables, two at 24" and 1 at 6".  My plan was to use the shortest cable for the most crucial clock link to the MC3+USB.  This did not work out that well, the 6" cable will connect the REF10 to the MC3+USB, but only if you align the back panel of the MC3+USB with the rear of the REF10, if you align the front panels as would look normal in a rack, the 6" is too short.  Luckily, the 6" will connect the REF10 to the tX-USBultra if you place them side by side.

 

A few spaghetti shots to give you an idea:

 

(also note the clock taps on the switch to the sMS-200, much neater than might have been seen on earlier spaghetti solutions)

 

[austinpop]

8 hours ago, flkin said:

My tX-USBultra green light inside the case blinks when using without the external clock and stays solid once the OCXO clock is attached.

 

13 hours ago, limniscate said:

Mine works differently.  The green led is always blinking unless you connect a reference clock.  Then it stays solid.

 

I bet this is due to different versions of the sCLK-EX board.

[austinpop]

7 hours ago, zoltan said:

Is this the same for the SMS-200 ultra, I wonder?

 

2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Yes.  Any Ultra as they use the sclk.

 

Yes, but as was pointed out by someone up-thread, the sMS-200ultra has the sCLK-EX board mounted on the top panel facing down, so the clock detect LEDs are not visible from the outside. I don't have one, so maybe someone who does can verify.

[austinpop]

17 minutes ago, Confused said:

Well, it has been an interesting day and apart from the voltage issue above, I am happy with how things are going so far.  Last week both my Mutec REF10 and SOtM Ultra bundle arrived.  I have had the REF10 plugged in for a little over two days now to settle in, and this morning started setting everything up.

 

A few observations, I bought 3 RG216 cables, two at 24" and 1 at 6".  My plan was to use the shortest cable for the most crucial clock link to the MC3+USB.  This did not work out that well, the 6" cable will connect the REF10 to the MC3+USB, but only if you align the back panel of the MC3+USB with the rear of the REF10, if you align the front panels as would look normal in a rack, the 6" is too short.  Luckily, the 6" will connect the REF10 to the tX-USBultra if you place them side by side.

 

A few spaghetti shots to give you an idea:

 

(also note the clock taps on the switch to the sMS-200, much neater than might have been seen on earlier spaghetti solutions)

 

 

Really looking forward to your listening impressions!

 

What specific brand clock cables did you buy? And what connector are you using between the MC-3+ USB and the Devialet? AES? Or S/PDIF?

[Confused]

One last thought on spaghetti, although it is bit of a pain to set up and I now have five boxes on one hifi rack shelf, the actual spaghetti is nicely hidden away, you just wouldn't notice it was there.  No big deal.

 

Anyway, I decided to take things step by step, so I first set up the REF10 to the MC3+USB, but kept my microRendu feeding the MC3+USB, I did not want to mess around with the SOtM kit until I knew the REF10 and MC3+USB were working as they should.  Anyway, this was easy, connected everything up, set the MC3 to external clock, music played, all good!

 

As the REF10 had been disconnected for a while, I left the system playing background music for half an hour or so, before sitting down for a listen.  I have to admit I was a little apprehensive, the REF 10 was a lot of cash, and I normally do not buy any hifi components unless I have auditioned, auditioned again, tried head to head with the obvious rivals.  The REF10 was bought purely on specification and the good report on this forum.  Then to the listening.  It did not take long for me to realise that I had nothing to worry about, the REF10 is epic!  Everything sounds so much more natural, more real, and is much easier to listen to.  This is not at the loss of detail either, quite the opposite, the level of detail is significantly improved from what was already a very high level.  A noticeable improvement in dynamics, harder hitting bass, more detail in the bass.  Yes, this thing works!  Remember all this is with the microRendu still in the chain, if I am honest, I think I would have been happy with this uplift in performance if I had been running the Ultra kit also.

 

Then to setting up the SOtM kit, as I posted earlier, I had some minor teething problems with the voltage selection.  Doh!  Oh well, anyway, it is all up and running as it should be now.

 

As this kit is all new, I think I will just run it and enjoy it for two weeks or so.  Once I have some hours on it and more importantly got used to the system myself, I think I might then try a few experiments.  Maybe try with the tXUSBultra out of the chain.  Why?  I like to have a feel for what individual components might be adding or removing from the end result.  Then I might try running that 6" cable to the MC3+USB.  I am also interested in trying with and without the modded switch, and trying the SOtM kit with and without the REF10 feed.

 

More later!

[Confused]

5 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Really looking forward to your listening impressions!

 

What specific brand clock cables did you buy? And what connector are you using between the MC-3+ USB and the Devialet? AES? Or S/PDIF?

The clock cables are RG216 custom made by Pasternack, see link for more:

 

The MC3+USB runs AES/EBU to the Devialet.