A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[auricgoldfinger]

In a nutshell, I would describe the dCBL-UF as having a much bigger soundstage than the Lush, with a big boost in overall clarity and detail.  The entire frequency range is much more defined.  I hear a lot more music with the dCBL-UF.

[limniscate]

@austinpop and I did a lot of testing today on my system and had some interesting findings.

 

We did sighted comparisons at first and then blind testing on me.  I definitely learned that testing on my own is useless because I'm always biased against improvement.  Before today, I thought the tX-USB Ultra and Mutec Ref10 basically did nothing to my system and couldn't tell any difference between the Pasternack and Digikey clock cable either.

 

Before I list the tests and results, here is a reminder of my system:

 

Zenith SE -> tX-USB Ultra via Phasure Lush -> dX-USB Ultra via Curious -> Schitt Yggy Rev. A via Transparent Reference AES -> ARC Ref6 via Shunyata Python XLR -> Sanders Magtech via Groneberg TS Premium single-ended -> Magnepan 3.7i via Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme speaker cables.  Mutec Ref 10 clocking the dX with a Pasternack 50 ohm BNC to SMB cable and an Amphenol 75 ohm BNC to BNC to the tX.  

 

We did the swap the Curious for another Lush at one point.  The dX and tX were powered by a 2nd gen HD-Plex at 12v at first.  We switched in a Paul Hynes SR-4 later on and also tried two Uptone LPS-1 in series (which we've tried before).

 

First we turned off the Mutec Ref 10 with the dX-USB Ultra and tX-USB Ultra in my system.  Like the Cybershaft, the Mutec added a sense of three dimensions and realness.  The image seemed larger as well.

 

Next, we took out the dX and just used the tX directly from the Zenith to the Yggy.  This is when we swapped in the other Lush, which remained for the rest of the testing.  As expected, the Yggy sounded best on AES.  It'll be interesting to see how much the gap closes if I get the Gen5 USB upgrade on the USB.

 

Then we took out the tX-USB Ultra and put the dX back in.  As reported before, the tX-USB definitely added weight.

 

Then we swapped the Paul Hynes SR-4 for the HD-Plex on the dX-USB and put the tX-USB back into the chain.  Wow, I had forgotten how sensitive SOtM gear is to power supplies.  This was the most obvious change of the day.

 

At this point, we started blind testing on me.  I believe @austinpop started with the Mutec Ref 10 in and out of the chain as the first test.  Like the sighted test, I was able to correctly identify whether it was in the chain or not.

 

Then he tested me on the tX.  This is where it got interesting: so the system sounded worse with the tX on the HD-Plex but the dX on the SR4.  Remember above that my system sounded better with the tX in it, but that was with the dX and tX both on the HD-Plex!  This was shocking to both of us and underscores just how important a good power supply is.

 

Next, he tested me on something that we had tested in the past but is baffling to both of us.  He tested me with the SOtM modded switch in and out of the system.  The switch was powered by an Uptone LPS-1 at 5v and was connected to the tX via a Digikey 50 ohm SMB to SMB clock cable.  Upstream of the switch were two SOtM dCBL-CAT7 with a SOtM iSO-CAT 6 to a USB NIC that's connected to a USB hub, which is connected to a standard PC (bridge mode). Another dCBL-CAT7 connected the modded switch directly to the Zenith SE. 

 

With the switch out of the system, the Zenith SE was connected directly to an ethernet port on the wall which connects to a switch and router in another room.  Therefore, this mode has two more SMPS upstream of the Zenith SE compared to with the modded switch in the chain.  Amazingly, I preferred the chain without the modded switch!  The image sounded bigger and more dense on the low end.  This is the second time I blind tested this and chose the chain without the modded switch.  How can this be? 

 

Our first hypothesis was that maybe the iSO-CAT6 was causing the difference.  Remember, we've tested the iSO-CAT6 before and couldn't distinguish any effects.  So Rajiv blind-tested me without the modded switch but with and without the iSO-CAT6.  Neither of us could distinguish any effect.  Our second theory is that it might have something to do with the HD-Plex powering the tX, which is connected to the switch via the Digikey clock cable.  More testing will have to be done when Rajiv gets his LPS 1.2 and I get my SR7.

 

The next blind test that we did was with grounding a Netgear switch aka John Swenson trick.  It was very subtle, but I think I did prefer the grounded Netgear switch to the ungrounded Netgear switch.

 

After that, we tried the grounded Netgear switch versus no switch.  Amazingly, we again preferred no switch in the chain!

 

The last test that we performed was a Pasternack 50 ohm BNC to SMB clock cable from the Mutec Ref10 to the dX versus a Digikey 50 ohm BNC to SMB clock cable from the Mutec Ref10 to the dX.  Surprisingly, I preferred the Digikey.  We used Daft Punk's Game of Love HDTracks version, and the cymbals were definitely crisper with the Digikey than the Pasternack.

 

TL;DR

1.  Power supplies make a big difference on SOtM gear.

2.  Mutec Ref 10 has a nice effect on realism (more 3D-sounding) and image size.

3.  tX does seem to add a heft/weight on the bottom end.  

4.  For some unknown reason still, the modded switch sounds worse in my system than direct to the wall.

5.  Digikey BNC to SMB cable sounds better than Pasternack.

 

Upcoming tests:

Mutec Ref 10 versus Cybershaft OP-14

LPS 1.2 versus SR4

Clarity USB cable versus Lush

 

 

As an aside, I haven't posted about my Zenith SE versus SOtM gear because I want to wait for my SR7.  I suspect the gap will close considerably when the SOtM gear is on the SR7.

 

 

 

   

     

 

 

 

[Bruce Orr]

Wow! You and Rajiv have been busy indeed!!  Great work and reporting. Sorry I missed this session. Lots of interesting stuff going on. Also glad you are still feeling out the Zenith SE. Paul Haynes continue to impress. Anxious to hear what the SR7 does. 

[rickca]

35 minutes ago, limniscate said:

Then he tested me on the tX.  This is where it got interesting: so the system sounded worse with the tX on the HD-Plex but the dX on the SR4.  Remember above that my system sounded better with the tX in it, but that was with the dX and tX both on the HD-Plex!  This was shocking to both of us and underscores just how important a good power supply is.

I don't understand this part.  You changed the power supply on the dX from the HDPLEX to an SR4 and it sounded worse than powering the dX with the HDPLEX?  Is that what you're saying?

[rickca]

44 minutes ago, limniscate said:

Amazingly, I preferred the chain without the modded switch!  The image sounded bigger and more dense on the low end.  This is the second time I blind tested this and chose the chain without the modded switch.  How can this be? 

Wait, what?  Both you and Rajiv originally said that the SOtM modded switch significantly improved the trifecta sMS-200Ultra, tX-USBultra and modded switch.  OK now the sMS-200Ultra is gone and you have the Zenith SE instead.  How can this be, indeed?

[limniscate]

23 minutes ago, rickca said:

I don't understand this part.  You changed the power supply on the dX from the HDPLEX to an SR4 and it sounded worse than powering the dX with the HDPLEX?  Is that what you're saying?

No, what I'm saying is that the system sounded better with just the dX with SR4 over the dX with SR4 and tX on HD-PLEX.  I'm confident that if the tX were on a good power supply, then it would improve the sound in conjuction with the dX. 

[limniscate]

19 minutes ago, rickca said:

Wait, what?  Both you and Rajiv originally said that the SOtM modded switch significantly improved the trifecta sMS-200Ultra, tX-USBultra and modded switch.  OK now the sMS-200Ultra is gone and you have the Zenith SE instead.  How can this be, indeed?

Yes, it's baffling. 

[Johnseye]

 

 

50 minutes ago, limniscate said:

 

With the switch out of the system, the Zenith SE was connected directly to an ethernet port on the wall which connects to a switch and router in another room.  Therefore, this mode has two more SMPS upstream of the Zenith SE compared to with the modded switch in the chain.  Amazingly, I preferred the chain without the modded switch!  The image sounded bigger and more dense on the low end.  This is the second time I blind tested this and chose the chain without the modded switch.  How can this be? 

 

Where is your local music source?  NAS?  Behind the wall somewhere but in front of the router, or attached to the router?

Did streaming from Tidal make a difference?

 

Provided your music source is always behind the wall, my take on this result is that any additional device, like the switch, has the potential to have a negative effect on the sound by introducing noise. 

 

 

 

[limniscate]

The music was stored locally on the Zenith. I don't stream at all, so we didn't test that. 

[mozes]

1 hour ago, limniscate said:

With the switch out of the system, the Zenith SE was connected directly to an ethernet port on the wall which connects to a switch and router in another room.  Therefore, this mode has two more SMPS upstream of the Zenith SE compared to with the modded switch in the chain.  Amazingly, I preferred the chain without the modded switch!  The image sounded bigger and more dense on the low end.  This is the second time I blind tested this and chose the chain without the modded switch.  How can this be? 

This is odd! Have you considered the possibility that the modded switch has an issue? Maybe you can test Rajiv’s switch in your system. 

[Johnseye]

18 minutes ago, limniscate said:

The music was stored locally on the Zenith. I don't stream at all, so we didn't test that. 

 

So then eliminating the switch just removed one power, or noise source.  Even if it was a better sounding switch than others.  Did you try putting a non-modded switch in place of the modded switch for a 3 way comparison and rank them?

[limniscate]

13 minutes ago, mozes said:

This is odd! Have you considered the possibility that the modded switch has an issue? Maybe you can test Rajiv’s switch in your system. 

We tried a Netgear as well, but I don't think it was clocked by the tX and Ref 10.

[mozes]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

So then eliminating the switch just removed one power, or noise source.  Even if it was a better sounding switch than others.  Did you try putting a non-modded switch in place of the modded switch for a 3 way comparison and rank them?

good idea, for the Ultimate test, when playing locally stored music, try unplugging the ethernet cable from the Zenith and see if SQ improves. This can tell you if there is noise creeping in through the ethernet cable.

[limniscate]

3 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

So then eliminating the switch just removed one power, or noise source.  Even if it was a better sounding switch than others.  Did you try putting a non-modded switch in place of the modded switch for a 3 way comparison and rank them?

When the Zenith was connected to the wall, it is connected to a non modded switch with no fancy power supply. 

[Johnseye]

3 minutes ago, limniscate said:

When the Zenith was connected to the wall, it is connected to a non modded switch with no fancy power supply. 

 

But if your music isn't behind the wall, the non modded switch is upstream and won't have an influence, or at least much less.

[limniscate]

Exactly, which is why it's baffling. The only thing the network is used for is the Roon remote. 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Wait, what?  Both you and Rajiv originally said that the SOtM modded switch significantly improved the trifecta sMS-200Ultra, tX-USBultra and modded switch.  OK now the sMS-200Ultra is gone and you have the Zenith SE instead.  How can this be, indeed?

 

Important to clarify that the music is on local SSD on the Zenith. So the switch is not in the critical path. The network is only used for the Roon control app to communicate with the Roon Core.

 

I'm sure if we had been streaming music from a remote Core, a NAS, or on Tidal, the reclocked switch would have been a net win.

[austinpop]

Just to detail what we tried, in the switch experiment, see below. Again, music is local to the Zenith SE, so no audio flows over the ethernet, just control.

 

Note: In the text below, "wall" refers to an upstream chain of "router > switch" elsewhere in the house, each on their default SMPS. All the ethernet links were with SOtM dCBL-Cat 7 cables.

 

Configurations:

1. Wall > SE <---------- sounded the best
2. Wall > reclocked switch (LPS-1, but clock supplied by tX-USBultra on HDPlex) > SE
3. Wall > Netgear FS105 (HDPlex 12V - does not work with LPS-1 at 7V) > SE
4. Wall > Netgear FS105 (HDPlex, with ground shunted via iFi Groundhog) > SE

We didn't test these exhaustively, but we did establish that, on Eric's setup,

• 1) sounded better than 2)
• 1) sounded better than 4) which sounded better than 3)

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on these findings. The SR-4 to HDPlex delta was so huge that I am leery of any findings with the HDPlex. The next time we meet up, probably in a couple of weeks, I will have 2 LPS-1.2s on hand, so we will revisit.

[rickca]

14 minutes ago, austinpop said:

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on these findings. The SR-4 to HDPlex delta was so huge that I am leery of any findings with the HDPlex. The next time we meet up, probably in a couple of weeks, I will have 2 LPS-1.2s on hand, so we will revisit.

Exactly.  This would be consistent with Eric not liking the tX-USBultra powered by the HDPlex.  Still, it's surprising that things sounded better with an upstream router/switch on SMPS.

[austinpop]

5 minutes ago, rickca said:

Exactly.  This would be consistent with Eric not liking the tX-USBultra powered by the HDPlex.  Still, it's surprising that things sounded better with an upstream router/switch on SMPS.

 

I think we can also credit the isolation built into the Zenith SE ethernet port. As Nuno wrote on this other forum:

 

The ethernet ports on the Zenith are no ordinary Ethernet ports you find on normal "consumer-grade" boards. The ethernet ports have 4 separate isolation transformers each to further isolate the connection (4 small grey boxes right before each ethernet port). We also do extensive anti-vibration treatment of the chassis, the LPSU and even the SSD, converting vibration into very small amounts of heat. This makes a very audible difference in sound quality.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, limniscate said:

The music was stored locally on the Zenith. I don't stream at all, so we didn't test that. 

What speed network? 100 mbs or 1 gb?

[limniscate]

32 minutes ago, rickca said:

Exactly.  This would be consistent with Eric not liking the tX-USBultra powered by the HDPlex.  Still, it's surprising that things sounded better with an upstream router/switch on SMPS.

I did like the tX on HD-PLEX when the dX was also on the HD-PLEX --just not when the dX was on the SR4 and the tX was on the HD-PLEX. 

[limniscate]

2 minutes ago, lmitche said:

What speed network? 100 mbs or 1 gb?

This could be a factor that we haven't considered. When connected to the wall, it's a 1gbps connection, but through the bridge and modded switch, I think it's 100mbps or maybe even 10mbps. 

[lmitche]

3 minutes ago, limniscate said:

I did like the tX on HD-PLEX when the dX was also on the tX--just not when the dX was on the SR4 and the tX was on the HD-PLEX. 

Which hdplex?

[lmitche]

12 minutes ago, limniscate said:

This could be a factor that we haven't considered. When connected to the wall, it's a 1gbps connection, but through the bridge and modded switch, I think it's 100mbps or maybe even 10mbps. 

The FS switches are 100 mbps, so that means you liked the 1 gb connection best. Over here, the 1 gb nic sounds best set at 100mbps via it's driver configuration.

 

Go figure. Maybe the two emosystems transformers are a problem. It does great nevertheless.