A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[ciccio1112]

4 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Sembra intrigante e molte grazie per i dettagli delle tue esperienze positive finora. È un vero sollievo sapere che potrebbe essere consegnato entro 2 mesi e vedremo ancora un altro punto di riferimento nel prossimo futuro.

 

È felice di rivelare il tipo / i specifico / i di cappucci Mundorf per i suoi trasformatori premium o potrebbe essere più simile a un "segreto" di qualche tipo? Mi stavo solo chiedendo se questo modello di condensatore superiore fosse adatto per un alimentatore

 

http://www.mundorf.com/en/?category=hifi&menu=caps_audio&content=mcap_supreme_evo_silvergold_oil

 

 

Hi they should be the mundorf AG series ideal for power supply. There are also 4-pin ag + for better filtering.

 

[mozes]

4 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

I've ordered a power supply from Sean. I found him very knowledegable and easy to deal with. He was in Portugal working with Innuos and still replied to emails when he had a spare moment - sometimes late at night. My motherboard Is a Jetway NF596  but I also have a X10SBA to compare, so the Supply will not be for any specific motherboard.

I needed 12V for motherboard, 2 x 5V for 2 SSD/HDD and 9V for the SOTM bits: txUSB-exp, sCLK-ex & txUSBHUB. In discussion Sean recommended 3 seperate rails for the SOTM boards (I had sort of guessed he would ) SOTM liked the idea but MAY also said, the txUSB-exp provides refined 9V supply to the sCLK, which is further refined and finally ends up at the HUB output- So it will be interesting to test this out. I think the 3 seperate rails will be amazing but  2 'spare' rails are always handy for us 'tweakers'.

Due to the large number of outputs and bearing in mind the cost factor, Sean suggested we use 2 of his standard off the shelf toroids one for the motherboard and one for the rest. He felt they were 'up to the task' I quite liked this idea due to the fact we would 'isolate' noisy motherboard from the other components.

He also suggested 2 custom wound transformers that would take 2 weeks to produce - which would be 75% of the way between the standard and premium version as used in the Zenith SE. The premium Transformers take 6 weeks to produce due to the backlog the manufacturer has in orders.

Since the cost between one large or two smaller premium transformers was not that far apart we settled on 2  'premium' toroids  - six weeks delivery. Sean will get the other bits- case, circuits, etc. ready as far as possible in the meantime. He will be using the premium version of his  custom CHC circuits with mundorf CAPS.

So I'm very much looking forward to getting my new power supply in a couple of months and will use my other bits in the meantime. Looking forward to  hearing the benefit of the cutom CHC when it 'meeets' the SOTM sclk -ex server.The total cost is in the region of ( just over) £2000. Its not finalised yet.

Sean did not want all the money up front, he asked for a deposit to order the transformers and get started, that was very reassuring. In the meantime we've been in touch to discuss the connection details, type of Umbilical etc. To lower impedance we setteld on a single connector at the power supply end and a gland at server end where the cable can pass directlly through and connect to all the components, with the various connectors, SATA, molex, jack plugs, etc.

Thanks @austinpop for the detailed review.

 

 

That’s great stuff. This is a very interesting PSU. I really like the fact that he only asked for a deposit to get the transformers and 6 week delivery is very reasonable.

My sCLK server needs something similar. I currently use 4 PSUs, motherboard Jetway  NF596, sclk board, 2 tXUSBexp.

Keep us posted!

[mozes]

2 hours ago, str-1 said:

As I prepare to order a tx-USBultra with master clock input it occurs to me that I have no idea what version is better to order - 50ohm or 75ohm.  It will be some time before I am in a position to decide on what master clock to get here in the UK.  I would be grateful for any advice those who have already gone down tne master clock road can offer.  Thanks.

You have more choices for cables with 75Ohms. 

[Lebouwsky]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

However, there are other SoC motherboards that do have both a 24-pin and a 4-pin.

This is confusing to me.

 

The supermicro X10SBA has 12v dc and atx power input. With the atx you’ll need a pico psu, of which I always thought was less good than than a 12v dc input. If I remember well Paul Hynes advices to avoid these pico psu’s.

 

Or perhaps is the pico psu the only way to power the cpu separately?

[austinpop]

4 hours ago, Summit said:

Great review @austinpop, very informative!

 

I don’t remember if you use to upsample in ROON or not. IIRC you have in the past. I don’t and have the DSP off. Was your listening and review done with or without upsampling and DSP in ROON?

 

No - I did not upsample for this review. 

 

One thing to point out is that the current version of the InnuOS dos not support an NAA daemon yet. I’ve requested this from Nuno, and he’s going to set me up with a test build to try it out.

 

Since the Codex only benefits mildly from HQP, this isn’t a high priority for me, but I pointed out many here on CA would value the NAA support.

 

Of course, the use case would then be Roon Core and HQPlayer on another server, with the SE the endpoint.

[lateboomer]

I have one Asrock J3455B-ITX mini-atx with ATX powered by a 450W SMPS. May I ask is it possible to power the CPU separately for this board and how to do it? If I want to switch to multiple LPS to power the board in minimal way just for the CPU, ram, ethernet and usb port only, what ATX power pins could I disable?

[lateboomer]

2 hours ago, lmitche said:

Over here, my ASRock Q1900-itx motherboard doesn't have a second power connector for the CPU.  That may be what is special about the Supermicro board. I don't use that board any more.

 

I just realized that I have all that is needed here to split the power to my i7-6700 z170 motherboard.  It would be easy to power the CPU (EPU/EPC) from the existing ATX SMPS.  From there I'd power the ATX connector from a HDplex DC to DC power supply with 19 volts from a sigma 11 based linear power supply.

 

I may give this a go later in the day to learn how it sounds.

 

Hi lmitche,

 

Could you elaborate more on how to power the i7-6700 z170 motherboard for the CPU separately? I am trying to figure out how to do the same for my Asrock J3455B-ITX board.

 

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, str-1 said:

Great review @austinpop

 

With both you and @romaz backing the SE, tx-USBultra and master clock approach, that pretty much sells it to me.  I’m already enjoying the SE connected to the Chord DAVE via an LPS-1-powered ISO Regen, and have just ordered an SR4.  I’ll probably put an order in for the Chord Blu 2 next week and was intending to get a tx-USBultra, which I will now order with a master clock input.  I’ll wait until I’ve got all that, and it is properly run in, before trying out a masterclock.  Cheers

 

Since you have the Dave, and are heading to a Blu-Dave, I seem to remember Roy saying (in his head-fi posts, or perhaps in email - I can't remember) that he found that once he got the Blu, the clock improvements upstream shrank in their overall importance. IOW, you may not hear as profound an improvement adding a tX-USBultra, and then a reference clock, as I or others not using a Blu-Dave do.

[LTG2010]

1 hour ago, Lebouwsky said:

The supermicro X10SBA has 12v dc and atx power input. With the atx you’ll need a pico psu, of which I always thought was less good than than a 12v dc input. If I remember well Paul Hynes advices to avoid these pico psu’s.

 

The 4 pin connector is 12V DC (2x12V, 2xground) The 24 pin ATX connector is for an ATX power supply. You use either one or the other. If you have a linear power supply you can use the pico converter to split the voltages for the 24 pin ATX connector. Innuos appear to be using both connections in the Zenith. The pico converter is being used for the optical drive but its not clear if it's powering anything else.

[mozes]

36 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Since you have the Dave, and are heading to a Blu-Dave, I seem to remember Roy saying (in his head-fi posts, or perhaps in email - I can't remember) that he found that once he got the Blu, the clock improvements upstream shrank in their overall importance. IOW, you may not hear as profound an improvement adding a tX-USBultra, and then a reference clock, as I or others not using a Blu-Dave do.

Maybe with a Blu2 any PC would do the job to give you excellent SQ.

[str-1]

28 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Since you have the Dave, and are heading to a Blu-Dave, I seem to remember Roy saying (in his head-fi posts, or perhaps in email - I can't remember) that he found that once he got the Blu, the clock improvements upstream shrank in their overall importance. IOW, you may not hear as profound an improvement adding a tX-USBultra, and then a reference clock, as I or others not using a Blu-Dave do.

Thanks, that’s very helpful.  So the best approach for me to explore that possible road would be to get the Blu 2 first, and then try out the tx-USBultra.  And if that is successful, then try the master clock (assuming I have the tx-USBultra with the appropriate input).  That gives me a roadmap for the next 3-4 months.

 

As an aside, I’ve just read a post on the head-fi Blu 2 thread saying the 100 Zenith SE units have now been sold by Innuos.  But it is probably still possible to track down one or two among the dealers.

[BigAlMc]

AFAIK the SE is "the server" to beat at the moment so whilst the 100 may have been allocated I would imagine that Innuos will do something similar in the near future. 

 

I saw Nuno Vitorino of Innuos tell Head-fi-ers there will only be 100 SE units. But surely the critical acclaim and reviews will lead to them offering something similar. Unless of course they lost money somehow. 

 

Meantime there is presumably a waiting list for any returned trial units or even perhaps a secondary market for anyone crazy enough to part with one 

 

Also surely other manufacturers will attempt to emulate the success Innuos achieved here. And hopefully that will lower the entry price. 

 

Better still some sort of SE with reference clock. At that point I might be crazy enough to part with my SE. But not before! 

[Johnseye]

16 hours ago, austinpop said:

Review of the Innuos Zenith MkII SE

 

Here - finally! - is my promised review of the Zenith MkII SE, referred to in the rest of this review simply as the SE. I know it feels like I've strung you guys along. I would have written this much earlier, had it not been for the untimely failure of my tX-USBultra, just when I was getting ready to do comparative listening at the 200 hour burn-in mark on my SE. Well, I have received my tX-USBultra back (a saga I posted about separately), which finally enabled me to complete this review. A side benefit of this delay is that my SE is truly burned-in now, with well over 300 hours of play time.

 

The SE came to my attention upon reading Roy's review on head-fi. After his public posts on the matter, he and I stayed in touch and he conveyed how impressed he was with it in his system. Finally, when a group of friends and I decided to do a private group buy, the die was cast. In due course, the SE arrived, and assumed a place in my system.

 

I'm not going to waste time and space here describing what the SE is and its feature set. If you haven't already, go read Roy's review on head-fi and Darko's review on his site. The SE is a standalone music player, that can store music locally, and serve them to a DAC directly via USB. For Roon users like me, the SE can function both as a Roon Core, but also as a Roon Bridge. If used as a bridge, the SE functions as a rather expensive streamer/renderer. In Roon Core mode, the box also provides a bridged streamer output, so you can drive an existing streamer. So it's a very flexible box! It also supports other modes like UPnP, Sonos, etc. I did not experiment with these.

 

As you know, my journey to SQ optimization has led me to my current spaghetti solution based on the SOtM trifecta. As a result, my perspective in evaluating the SE is uniquely mine. It's based on the question - how can the SE improve the overall SQ of my audio chain? Can it do so while simplifying my chain? And does it? This review is all about comparative performance. There are enough reports out there that suggest that on its own merit, the SE sounds wonderful. So my focus here is comparison with my trifecta chain.

 

Also note - we are at a fairly hefty price point here, and definitely in the diminishing returns region of the price-performance curve. I have no illusions on this score, nor am I even suggesting that this kind of expenditure is necessary for good SQ. 

 

Disclaimer

 

I've had people contact me wanting to know if I was affiliated with, or paid by, one company of the other. Let me set the record straight, once and for all. I only review, and plan to continue to only review, gear that interests me for my own system. All the gear is either purchased by me, or lent to me by friends and CA'ers - NOT by manufacturers. Like all of us, I hate paying retail, so will often buy used or discounted products, but not for review considerations. To be honest, I'm pretty small fry, and I prefer it that way! The main reason I write here is because a) I enjoy writing, and b) I feel too few reviews - especially from mainstream publications - take an unflinching, comparative approach, which is what I, and most of the audiophiles I know, really want to know.

 

OK - back to the interesting parts.

 

My Current Chain

 

Let's review the chain I have been using prior to the SE's arrival. The notation I'll use is to indicate the PSU in parentheses, including whether its output is shunted to ground via a JSGT (John Swenson Ground Tweak).  For all the LPS-1s in my chain, the energizing Meanwell SMPSes are all JSGT shunted. Also, unless otherwise indicated, upstream of the chains below is:

• Netgear CM600i modem (HDPlex LPS) > TP-Link Archer C7 router (HDPlex LPS) > Netgear GS105 switch (Breeze LPS, JSGT)
• TP-Link Archer C7 router (HDPlex LPS) > Synology DS916+ NAS (SMPS) 

The modem, router, and NAS, are in a different room, and on a different AC circuit. The Netgear switch is in my listening room, and immediately precedes the chains below. All my audio gear is on a dedicated AC circuit, using the 6 AWG wire and outlet sourced from Jim Weil, that I described in a post a few days ago.

 

Here is my current chain:

• sCLK-EX-modded switch (LPS-1) > sCLK-EX-modded sMS-200 (LPS-1) > ISO-Regen (LPS-1) > tX-USBultra (Hynes SR-4) > Codex
• Cybershaft OP-14 10 MHz reference clock feeding the sCLK-EX board in the tX-USBultra
• This clock topology essentially delivers OP-14 quality to my switch, sMS, and tX, and has really been the jewel in my audio crown, as it were.

SE Functional Quirks

 

As I previously posted, the SE's USB controller does not play nice with the USB controller on my Ayre Codex. So I was never able to run the simple chain:

• Zenith SE > Codex

In trouble shooting, I had several emails back and forth with Nuno of Innuos and Ariel and Ryan at Ayre. While this issue is still not resolved for the Codex, we did establish that it seems to be related to the fact that the Codex USB stage is bus-powered. Thanks to another loan of the QX-5 Twenty by my local dealer, which uses the exact same USB controller chipset as the Codex, but is internally powered, I established that this chain works fine:

• Zenith SE > QX-5 Twenty

Nuno did mention that another workaround is to use the iFi USB iPurifier2 between the SE and the Codex. Mark Sossa, the US Innuos distributor kindly lent me one to try. Sure enough, this does function correctly:

• Zenith SE > iPurifier2 > Codex

Usability

 

While the SE's UI is not geared to power users and tweakers like me, I have to appreciate its elegance and simplicity. For computer- or technology-phobes, this thing is a dream. One of the cool features is the CD ripping tool. This isn't something I expect to use much, as the bulk of my CDs were ripped more than a decade ago. Upon Roy's recommendation, I did try re-ripping a favorite CD, and the experience could not be nicer. Roy felt that the rips from the SE actually sounded a little better to him, but I didn't find that to be the case. Still, for those needing this feature, it's nifty.

 

Sonic Signatures

 

Before I get into comparisons, let me talk about the sonic signatures of both my trifecta and the SE. In the rest of the review, I'll refer to these signatures rather than enumerate them again and again. 

• Current chain based on SoTM Trifecta: As I've described before, the net effect of clock and PSU improvements - starting with the sCLK-EX, the use of LPS-1 and SR-4, and culminating in the addition of the Cybershaft OP-14 - has been in the following areas:
  • Tonal Smoothness, lack of digital glare
  • Sweet midrange
  • Huge and precise image
  • Air - excellent separation of instruments
  • Texture and dimensionality - instruments sound real, and have a palpable dimension to them
  • Resolving - fine details are exquisitely rendered. Brushes and high hat strokes come across very distinctly. A string section sounds like distinct violins (for example) playing together, rather than one homogenous violin, if that makes any sense.
  • As such, this configuration sets a very high bar to surpass!
     
• Zenith SE: the addition of the SE to a chain yields substantial SQ benefits. These are completely consistent with Roy's and Darko's observations, but I'll describe them in my words:
  • Dynamism: it feels like the music has gained some dynamic range, but it's more that dynamic range is is more realistically rendered. This is actually more apparent if you turn down the volume when making comparisons. 
  • Calmness and ease: related to the above, there is a sense of relaxation and ease to the sound, that I attribute to a lower noise floor
  • Richer and smoother tonality, especially the treble
  • Density, solidity: music had more weight and body to it. Instruments seemed more palpable and real.
  • Improved bass

Findings

 

Let me first dispense with the most obvious and financially most attractive comparison: could the Zenith SE standalone replace my spaghetti chain? If so, I could sell my entire trifecta, and recoup most or all of what I paid for the SE. Sadly - the answer is an emphatic NO. While the SE bettered the trifecta in terms of the traits described above, especially dynamism and weight, there was also a profound sense of loss for the air, dimensionality, and resolution that is so characteristic of all the clock improvements. This was not surprising, nor unexpected, as it's what Roy found in his evaluation too.

 

This would be a good time to take a detour to the topic of axes (or dimensions) of optimization. We have ample evidence now that SQ improvements can be gained by making extreme optimization on both the clocking axis AND the PSU axis. There are other axes too: for example, RF/EMI shielding, and mechanical/vibration control. If you've read about the SE, you know that one of the key things that distinguishes the SE from its lower-priced brethren is the use of very high-quality, bespoke PSUs designed by Sean Jacobs, another British boutique electronics designer. First Paul Hynes, now Sean Jacobs. Must be something in the water there! Or the whisky.  

 

The SE and the trifecta chains are perfect examples of systems that have been optimized along these two axes. My trifecta chain is highly clock-optimized, but while I am using excellent PSUs, it could probably sound way better if I used 4+ rails of an SR-7 instead. In contrast, the SE is highly PSU-optimized, but by Nuno's admission in discussion with Roy and me, not particularly optimized on the clock dimension.

 

With this backdrop, I went on a similar path as Roy described in his head-fi posts: could I combine the SE with elements of my trifecta to achieve a new high-water mark for my system's SQ? And what is the cost/benefit tradeoff of the resulting chain?

 

Note: this post is long enough already, so I will not lengthen it by enumerating all the interesting experiments I tried. At different points in the last 3 weeks, I've had loaners of the Ayre QX-5 and Eric's sMS-200ultra and dX-USB HD Ultra, that have allowed me to try all kinds of permutations and combinations. I'll cut to the chase and list only the most interesting findings.

 

Disclaimer: Keep in mind that all the adjectives and qualifiers I use below are relative. Take it as given that each configuration by itself sounds incredible, and without the other to compare, I would be very pleased with the SQ I was hearing. But for comparisons, it becomes necessary to use positive or negative terms to convey relative merits.

 

Finding 1: The best Zenith SE chain outperforms my current reference chain

 

This is the SE-based chain that sounded best in my system:

• sCLK-EX-modded switch (LPS-1) > Zenith SE > tX-USBultra (Hynes SR-4) > Codex
• Cybershaft OP-14 10 MHz reference clock feeding the sCLK-EX board in the tX-USBultra

You'll notice that this is still "spaghetti" but not as complex as my current chain. Why the switch, you ask, since the SE can store music locally? See the next finding.

 

This is the same combination that Roy has settled on in his system too. As good as the SE sounds by itself, the addition of the tX-USBultra, reference clocked by the Cybershaft, elevates SQ to an absolutely magical level. My system has never sounded this good! This combination takes the dynamism, the density, and the rich and smooth tonality of the SE, and adds in the resolution, micro-details, and texture of the clocking enhancements. 

 

If I'm honest, I still find my current reference chain to be a tad more detailed and resolving. This is where system synergy comes in. As I've mentioned in my past posts, I have always struggled with a slight thinness to the sound of my chain. This starts with my headphone setup, which is extremely resolving. Part of this is just inherent in headphone listening compared to speakers. Add to that my HD800's which, while they've been modded to mitigate the infamous 6kHz peak, are still unforgiving of any treble harshness or imbalance.

 

Compared to the SE chain, my current chain sounds a little constricted, and seems to have more treble energy. Switching to the SE chain delivers that "aahh" - a sense of calm and relaxation that one gets from reduced treble glare and hash. The sound is more dynamic, weighty, and richer. More importantly, voices sound more natural.

 

Having said all that, it isn't by any means a night and day difference. On some well-recorded and smooth-sounding tracks, it's harder to tell the 2 chains apart. The more inherently brighter the tonal palette of the recording, the more the difference is noticeable. To illustrate this - to myself, during listening - I fired up Kate Bush's Wuthering Heights. I know - I have dated musical tastes, but this is a song that will have you ripping the 'phones off your head on a sub-par system.  In this comparison, the constriction and brightness of the trifecta relative to the SE was immediately noticeable.

 

Ultimately though, the SE-based chain extends the SQ of my system to a new high-watermark. Is it worth the price? That is highly subjective. For my situation and my ears, the answer is yes, although I still have a few days left in the 30-day return window. I'll talk about this more in the summary.

 

One final note: Knowing the lust and envy that would result, I did also listen to the SE chain driving the QX-5. OMFG! This was a sublime chain. I know in the past I've said that I find DAC SQ differences to be rather small, compared to what I have heard in the digital chain upstream of the DAC. With the SE in the chain, it felt like the DAC difference between the Codex and the QX-5 was more pronounced. I'll talk about this more in finding 4.

 

Finding 2: The reclocked switch minimizes the gap between music on local SSD vs. NAS

 

Since I already have an sCLK-EX-modded switch available, along with an available clock output on my tX-USBultra, it seemed a no-brainer to try this in the chain. Without the reclocked switch, the difference between music stored locally on the SE sounded significantly better than when retrieved from my NAS on the network. Adding in the reclocked switch, the gap narrowed considerably. I have to listen very carefully now to register the slight improvement provided by local files. And of course, the reclocked switch makes a huge improvement for Tidal and other streams.

 

This is really important to me for flexibility. My music lives on my NAS for multiple reasons - it is accessible from multiple systems and devices, and I have a backup strategy in place. Putting music files locally on the SE would then require me to keep my SE copy in sync with my NAS copy. It's not an insurmountable problem, but it is a bit messy. Nuno has indicated they are looking into proving a sync tool within the SE to address this use case. I hope they do.

 

Finding 3: The Zenith SE internal player outperforms Roon

 

This is one of those ironic findings. On the one hand, kudos to the Innuos team for optimizing their internal SqueezeServer player. But as a committed Roon user, this finding actually annoyed me. I have no interest in switching back from Roon to a Squeezebox ecosystem. I still have iPeng on my iDevices from when I used to own a Squeezebox Touch, but I've moved on.

 

So yes - the internal player, controlled by iPeng, does sound better than Roon Core on the SE. From what I understand, much of the improvement comes from allocating a generous memory cache. To be fair to Innuos, they were able to make these improvements since the codebase is open source (I think), while the Roon code is opaque to them.

 

Still, as a Roon user, I would like to see this gap eliminated, and I hope Innuos devotes some energy to working with Roon to achieve that.

 

Finding 4: Improving music player (Zenith SE) has bigger impact than improving DAC (QX-5)

 

One point Darko made in his review about the "Portuguese fella" (the SE - I love his peculiar phraseology sometimes!) is this:

 

For the more seasoned digital audiophile caught between a streaming rock and a D/A converting hard place, know this: starting over with ten grand to spend, I’d take this Innuos and drop whatever cash I had left on a lesser DAC instead of putting the larger percentage of my dollars into a better D/A converter only to feed it ones and zeroes by a standard PC or Mac.

 

It occurred to me that with the loaner QX-5 sitting in my room, I actually had the makings of a very interesting experiment - i.e, compare these two configurations:

• Upgrade the DAC: replace the Codex with the QX-5 in my current chain
• Upgrade the music player: replace my current chain with the SE chain in finding 1, keeping my Codex DAC.

Cost wise, these are in the same ballpark, depending on whether you factor in retail vs. used cost, and the resale value of superseded gear. Not perfect, but an interesting comparison.

 

Well, I agree with Darko. Upgrading to the SE chain yielded more bang for the buck - to my ears - than upgrading the DAC. Now of course, upgrading both was to be transported to a divine plane, where you recline on a cloud, caressed by sunbeams, while angels sing.  

 

Finding 5: The tX-USBultra sounds better than the dX-USB HD Ultra

 

While my tX was en route to and from Korea, Eric kindly lent me his trifecta chain, comprising the sMS-200ultra and dX-USB HD Ultra. Since I had the QX-5 handy, I was able to drive this chain:

• Zenith SE > dX-USB HD Ultra (Hynes SR-4) > (AES) > QX-5
• Cybershaft OP-14 10 MHz reference clock feeding the sCLK-EX board in the dX-USB HD Ultra

The whole time I had it in my system I felt like something was missing, but with so much going on, I didn't really delve into why. When I got my tX-USBultra back, I immediately noticed how much better my system was sounding - and at a level of refinement that matched my recollection. Now curious, I compared the above to this chain:

• Zenith SE > tX-USBultra (Hynes SR-4) > (USB) > QX-5
• Cybershaft OP-14 10 MHz reference clock feeding the sCLK-EX board in the tX-USBultra.

Based on this experiment, the tX sounded significantly better. Now I'll caveat that I don't know per se what the relative merits of the USB and the AES input of the QX-5 are. Still, it is a data point, and suggests that the older dX may not be as refined as the tX.

 

Finding 6: The SR-4 has pulled ahead of the LPS-1 after more burn-in

 

I know I mentioned a couple weeks ago that I found these PSUs essentially head-to-head. Since then, the SR-4 has continued to burn in, and I am now able to compare on a chain of overall higher SQ with the SE. Whatever the reasons, I now find that switching back and forth powering the tX-USBultra, the SR-4 is the more refined PSU. Of course, this finding will be revisited when my LPS-1.2 comes in, and we shall see if the tables turn again with the 1.2. 

 

Summary

 

The Innuos Zenith MkII SE is a pretty remarkable piece of gear, and I recommend it heartily. Whether it's right for you depends on many things, but most importantly where you're coming from. If you're running your DAC direct from your stock MAC or PC, prepare to have your mind blown. As you go up the spectrum of existing system refinement, the SE's value proposition becomes more and more nuanced.

 

For my system, the SE does three things:

1. It allows me to achieve a level of SQ beyond what I previously had
2. It allows me to simplify my digital audio chain, although it does not completely eliminate the spaghetti
3. It allows me to sell parts of my current chain to partially defray the cost. I will soon be putting my modded sMS-200, my ISO-Regen, and 2-3 LPS-1s up for sale

There are some cons too:

1. For Roon users, the fact that Roon Core SQ lags the internal player is annoying
2. The fussiness of the USB controller with certain DACs requires care with system matching

Final Thoughts

 

Some people will look at this review and ask if I now believe "straight USB" is superior to "endpoint-based." I have never been tied to one approach or the other. For me, it was always about SQ and simplicity. Roy said something similar to me in one of his emails:

 

If you look back at my posts on CA, while I did find SQ to be a bit better with my "straight USB setup," a key reason for switching was because I preferred the simpler setup.  It is interesting just how many people have misinterpreted my rationale for leaving the trifecta, it was never for SQ reasons.

 

It did occur to me that an alternate path to achieve the same improvement as the SE provided in my system, was by the purchase of 4 rails of SR-7. Of course, I'd have to wait a year to get one! I discussed this with Roy, and his take was while the SR-7 still seemed like it had better specs:

 

With the Zenith SE more broken in, it has become a monster.  If I am to be honest, dynamics are a bit better than my server driven by the SR7 but I suspect this is due to the long DC leads I am using (1.5m) and the high impedance barrel connectors used (Paul Hynes hates these).

 

What I have concluded from my experience with the SE is that extremely high-end PSUs do make a palpable difference. This goes beyond the table stakes of low ripple noise, linear supplies, low output impedance, and isolation from high- and low-impedance noise. What these extreme PSUs also provide is a deep reservoir of instantaneous transient current delivery. We know this matters in analog amplification, but who knew it was so important in digital transmission!

 

What I would love to see is an SE-like product that married the concepts of extreme system and PSU optimization with clock optimizations. As Roy's experience shows, his (and others' on this thread) custom sCLK-EX modded servers have the potential for doing this. The trick is to incorporate several rails of an SR-7-like supply into the box, while keeping DC power leads as short and as low impedance as possible. There's the rub.

 

I sure hope Innuos's (or SOtM's or Antipodes') future systems give us the best of both worlds.

 

Great review.

Let's put the SE head to head with an sCLK-EX modded PC.

 

[austinpop]

9 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

But meantime did you test the combo of SE > TX-USBultra > DAC without your Cybershaft? And if so can you please comment on whether the TX-USBultra without an external clock improves the USB SQ much?

 

Yes I did, and yes it does. Even without a reference clock driving it, the tX-USBultra is a big step up in “deliciousness!”

 

The Cybershaft just elevates it to another level.

[austinpop]

40 minutes ago, mozes said:

Maybe with a Blu2 any PC would do the job to give you excellent SQ.

 

That may be a stretch!  

 

But I’ll let Blu2Dave owners tell us. I think Roy still finds the SE/tX/Ref10 source to matter.

[BigAlMc]

24 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Great review.

Let's put the SE head to head with an sCLK-EX modded PC.

 

 

The Head-fi review by Romaz infers the SE is up there. 

 

I'm not going to presume to put words in Roy's mouth. All I can say is his Head-fi review got me off the Trifecta vs SE fence. Because frankly I was very tempted with the Trifecta and it's reported SQ despite my misgivings about spaghetti. 

 

But a comparison to the sCLK-EX server versus the SE would be useful. 

[mozes]

14 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

That may be a stretch!  

 

But I’ll let Blu2Dave owners tell us. I think Roy still finds the SE/tX/Ref10 source to matter.

Of course I just meant if you really don’t want to go to the deep deep end. You can also keep it very simple.BluDave only and play CDs and you are done  

[austinpop]

30 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Great review.

Let's put the SE head to head with an sCLK-EX modded PC.

 

 

That would be interesting, but I would amend it to SE chain vs. an sCLK-EX modded PC chain.

 

BTW, the SE is a 25-lb monster, so it's not something you throw into your carry-on bag.

Dimensions		70 x 420 x 320 mm (H x W x D)
Weight		11 Kg

 

So any comparisons would have to be within driving distance.

[mozes]

2 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

That would be interesting, but I would amend it to SE chain vs. an sCLK-EX modded PC chain.

 

BTW, the SE is a 25-lb monster, so it's not something you throw into your carry-on bag.

Dimensions		70 x 420 x 320 mm (H x W x D)
Weight		11 Kg

 

So any comparisons would have to be within driving distance.

What about the Zenith SE vs. my sCLk server SE (2 tXusbexp + 2 tXusbUltra)  

 

My spaghetti is not transportable as well  

[ElviaCaprice]

7 hours ago, str-1 said:

Great review @austinpop

 

With both you and @romaz backing the SE, tx-USBultra and master clock approach, that pretty much sells it to me.  I’m already enjoying the SE connected to the Chord DAVE via an LPS-1-powered ISO Regen, and have just ordered an SR4.  I’ll probably put an order in for the Chord Blu 2 next week and was intending to get a tx-USBultra, which I will now order with a master clock input.  I’ll wait until I’ve got all that, and it is properly run in, before trying out a masterclock.  Cheers

 

For the cost of the Zenith, I'd rather acquire the  Chord Blu 2.  Even Roy thought the SQ gain from the Chord Blu 2 was far and away more important than the server.  

 

As far as sCLK-EX server goes, I can't wait to power my server with the Paul Hynes SR7 next fall.  I can power the mobo direct 12V without the barrel connector.  I'll definitely, as we have been saying all along,  keep that starquad cable as short as possible from the SR7.

[KingRex]

Austinpop, thank you for a very thoughtful and through review.  Could I ask a couple question.  Excuse me if you addressed either of these and I missed it or did not understand.   As a preface, I use a Mojo Audio unit that is somewhat like the SE in that is has individual linear power to the drive, storage and motherboard.  I get amazing results from music served from the internal HD.  I get ok results with streaming from the NAS.  When I find an album I like on my NAS I export it to my internal HD and play it from there.  So, my questions are:

 

First.  Were you doing any upsampling or just playing native redbook - WAV rips from CD.

Second.  In your Best Zenith chain you have a USBultra, a Cybershaft  clock and other devices.  Are these only necessary for the ethernet connection to your NAS or streaming Tidal source.  In other words, for best sound performance from the internal storage, do you find these other devices necessary.

 

Thanks 

[austinpop]

37 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Great review.

Let's put the SE head to head with an sCLK-EX modded PC.

 

 

6 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

The Head-fi review by Romaz infers the SE is up there. 

 

I'm not going to presume to put words in Roy's mouth. All I can say is his Head-fi review got me off the Trifecta vs SE fence. Because frankly I was very tempted with the Trifecta and it's reported SQ despite my misgivings about spaghetti. 

 

But a comparison to the sCLK-EX server versus the SE would be useful. 

 

My point about chains earlier bears some explanation. I think Roy has already said that by itself, the SE equals, and even slightly betters his custom server in terms of dynamism. But it cannot compete in terms of all the clock-related SQ improvements. The downside for his custom server is (quoting an email snippet):  ...that it requires 5 PSU rails (1 for the mobo, sCLK-EX, tX-USBexp, tX-USBhubIN, SSD) and to devote this many PSU rails to it is a challenge.

 

So no matter how you slice it, you have spaghetti! In one case:

• SE + tX-USBultra (1 PSU rail)
• custom server (5 PSU rails)

So it's not a competition to determine "the winner." Some - like me - don't want to mess with building a custom server, and like the simplicity of the SE.

 

Others really enjoy delving into all the myriad decisions in assembling a custom server:  mobo,  SATA,  drives, USB,  Ethernet, case, connectors, ... the list goes on. Once you start adding in the cost of SR7 rails (or perhaps Sean Jacobs rails), I wonder if there is even a cost advantage. 

[BigAlMc]

33 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes I did, and yes it does. Even without a reference clock driving it, the tX-USBultra is a big step up in “deliciousness!”

 

The Cybershaft just elevates it to another level.

 

Sigh... 

 

Yeah... 

 

Uh huh.... 

 

That's what I feared. On the one hand I have no problem buying a TX-USBultra to hear the difference for myself. I also have a couple LPS-1 sitting around so that helps. 

 

On the less enthusiastic side;

 

A. My ethernet to (PS Audio) Bridge II supports the full MQA unfold. So if the TX-USBultra route comfortably kicks it's SQ ass, well that's a dilemma. 

 

B. I was trying to simplify and adding a TX-USBultra infers that I should probably also add a Cybershaft/Mutec/SOtM clock and the better PSU that deserves. 

 

The audiophile rabbit hole never ends it seems! 

[ElviaCaprice]

4 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Now I realize that someone was already powering motherboard and CPU separately with 2 ATX PSUs

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=42&tab=comments#comment-640273

 

 

This is nothing new.  I've often powered my CPU separately with a 12V LPS.  I don't think it is all that critical.  Yeah, every little bit helps, but most critical is how the motherboard handles the main power input throughout the mobo.  It doesn't sound like Innuous has all the answers here either, let alone updating the clocking.

[mozes]

7 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

My point about chains earlier bears some explanation. I think Roy has already said that by itself, the SE equals, and even slightly betters his custom server in terms of dynamism. But it cannot compete in terms of all the clock-related SQ improvements. The downside for his custom server is (quoting an email snippet):  ...that it requires 5 PSU rails (1 for the mobo, sCLK-EX, tX-USBexp, tX-USBhubIN, SSD) and to devote this many PSU rails to it is a challenge.

 

So no matter how you slice it, you have spaghetti! In one case:

• SE + tX-USBultra (1 PSU rail)
• custom server (5 PSU rails)

 

Agree 100%. I hate the complexity of the 5 PSUs in my server as well. However, it was something that I had to do to see how far I can achieve in this path. I enjoyed it as well and gained tons of experience building my server, but this is not for everyone.