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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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1 hour ago, tims said:

Hi @Johnseye

 

From your description of your power supply chain: tX-USBexp > sCLK-EX > txUSBultra, I'm curious if you tried powering the txUSBultra with it's own (good quality PS) and not from the sCLK-EX output.  If so, was there any difference SQ wise?

 

The reason I ask is that I've had my sotm sMS-1000U player upgraded to an SQ version (with a tx-USBexp and sCLK-EX) and I also got sotm to use one of the sCLK-EX clock points to feed an external tx-USBhubEX that I hope makes it essentially a tx-USBultra.

If I can somehow power the tx-USBhubEX with the output of the sCLK-EX then this will save me a substantial amount buying a LPS-1 or something similar to power the tx-USBhubEX.

 

Cheers.

 

The tX-USBexp, sCLK-EX and tX-USBultra all get powered by my Paul Hynes SR7 this way.  It's not going to get better.  Additionally, the sCLK-EX has some of its own filtering so powering the tX-USBultra through the sCLK-EX is optimal and what you get when you buy a standalone version and not broken out like I have.

 

That said, I could power it from an LPS-1 or now LPS-1.2 but I'd have to buy a new one because it's being used to power my SSD right now.

 

You should be able to power the USBhub from the sCLK-EX.  You can either go the route I did or probably connect the blue and white cable directly to the USBhub's board.  I think there's a power adapter on it for the cable to connect.

 

57 minutes ago, rickca said:

OK that assembly is exactly what I need.  Where can I order this online so I can power an internal SSD with external 5V LPS?  I need a DC jack for an LPS-1.  I haven't been able to find something like this googling.

 

Lots of people seem to do this.  I don't have DIY skills to make it myself.  Thanks.

 

I would either contact May at SOtM or Crux Audio who are SOtM's US distributor.  You may want to source a cheaper version though.  Mine was $60 and they used stranded copper.  They also sell a different copper version and a silver version for more.

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28 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

Actually, I had found that one by googling, but it isn't exactly what I need.

This is actually more like it, but it's 5.5 x 2.5 and it doesn't have the mounting bracket.

https://www.moddiy.com/products/DC5.5x2.5-DC-Barrel-Jack-to-SATA-Power-Cable-Adapter-(Silver-Wire).html

 

Thanks, @seeteeyou looks like we both found the same thing.  It still isn't quite the same as what @Johnseye got from SOtM.  The idea is to cleanly mount the DC input jack on a PC bracket.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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24 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

You should be able to power the USBhub from the sCLK-EX.  

 

Instead of using an external  tx-usbultra you can use a tx-usbhubin like @Alan_J reported somewhere in december. Hubin, usbexp, sclk is powered by 1 power supply. The usbhubin gives you 2 usb ports. With this “win to usb” tool you can install Windows server 2016 on a usbb stick or equivilant and put it in the spair usb port of the hubin. This way you save one power supply (the one to the ssd) and it’s filtered top notch. 

 

Just a thought, maybe I’m overthinking this.

 

https://www.easyuefi.com/wintousb/resource/install-windows-server-on-external-hard-drive.html

 

 

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9 minutes ago, rickca said:

Thanks, @seeteeyou looks like we both found the same thing.  It still isn't quite the same as what @Johnseye got from SOtM.  The idea is to cleanly mount the DC input jack on a PC bracket.

 

Maybe you could still contact the owner of ghentaudio.com and ask him to make something like that for you since it ain't that difficult to begin with.

 

If that were no go, you could also get in touch with Gury and see if stuff like that were OK for him to make

 

https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/more-g-unique-bto-psus-are-now-available-direct-order.1983/

 

He's been offering DC-ATX converters that seemed to be better than the ones from HDPLEX, apparently he does speak English fluently and he's also shipping his products internationally.

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2 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

It’s silver and we’re crows

Huh?  Sorry, I don't get the crows reference.

@seeteeyou good idea I should see if Ghent can put this together for me.  I actually need a couple of them, one for my internal SSD which has an SOtM SATA II filter, and one for my Startech USB 3.1 Gen 2 card.  Thanks to @lmitche for the idea of putting the Startech card in a PCIe slot directly connected to the CPU rather than the PCH.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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13 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

If that were no go, you could also get in touch with Gury and see if stuff like that were OK for him to make

That looks awesome, thanks for the link!  I'm certain he could build what I need if he is even interested in doing so.  Sigh, I can build a PC but I don't have the expertise to understand what to do with this DIY stuff.  I realize what I'm asking for is elementary, but I'm clueless beyond selecting compatible components for a PC and putting them together in a case.

 

I certainly do see that Gury could provide something more advanced than the HDPLEX stuff.  Really intriguing.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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2 hours ago, Lebouwsky said:

 

Instead of using an external  tx-usbultra you can use a tx-usbhubin like @Alan_J reported somewhere in december. Hubin, usbexp, sclk is powered by 1 power supply. The usbhubin gives you 2 usb ports. With this “win to usb” tool you can install Windows server 2016 on a usbb stick or equivilant and put it in the spair usb port of the hubin. This way you save one power supply (the one to the ssd) and it’s filtered top notch. 

 

Just a thought, maybe I’m overthinking this.

 

https://www.easyuefi.com/wintousb/resource/install-windows-server-on-external-hard-drive.html

 

 

Yes, thanks. 

I did ask them that but apparently the tx-USBhubIN does not fit in their sMS-1000SQ with the upgraded tx-USBexp and the sCLK-EX boards in there so I had to get the external tx-USBhubEX instead. 

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1 hour ago, rickca said:

I certainly do see that Gury could provide something more advanced than the HDPLEX stuff.  Really intriguing.

 

Yeah, he's like SUPER advanced to the point where he managed to replace the Celeron processor (that's soldered to the laptop motherboard) with Pentium M a decade ago

 

http://www.cnetfrance.fr/news/changez-le-processeur-de-votre-eeepc-pm-753-ulv-inside-39781940.htm

https://www.engadget.com/2008/02/26/eee-pc-hacked-to-accomodate-1-2ghz-pentium-m-processor/

http://www.jkkmobile.com/2008/02/asus-eee-pc-with-12ghz-pentium-m.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20080302013429/http://blog.tom.com/guryhwa1121/article/2915.html

 

Then he even had the balls to take this PSU apart and replaced some caps etc.

 

http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/459/459620_3.shtml

http://www.zippy.com.tw/pw/showdetail.aspx?pp_rfnbr=1401

https://web.archive.org/web/20091113053546/http://www.itocp.com/bbs/thread-26869-3-1.html

 

That's why I wonder if he were interested in earning extra money by designing a carrier board for either SolidPC Q4 or Intel Compute Card, though we're gonna need more than a handful of us who are interested in such a niche product

 

https://wiki.solid-run.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=ibx:carrierboard:docs:brochure_intel_solidpc_q4_2016-09-24.pdf

https://wiki.solid-run.com/doku.php?id=products:ibx:documents

 

SOtM are only willing to mod non-audio devices so he could obviously fill that gap for us.

 

BTW, Chinese New Year is coming soon in mid-February so shipments might be delayed when many places in China should be closed for a fairly long time.

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1 minute ago, seeteeyou said:

BTW, Chinese New Year is coming soon in mid-February so shipments might be delayed when many places in China should be closed for a fairly long time.

Yeah, I used to be a computer science professor teaching college undergrads in Toronto where there is a huge population from HK.  I remember all the complaints I got from the students about assignments due in February.

 

I don't think I'll need someone as awesome as Gury to build me the simple assembly I want.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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11 hours ago, WuNgUn said:

I can power the processor of my DAC separately from the opamp/outout stage...which already has a high quality PSU...and it only requires 1.2V. No regulation needed, just a capacitor to smooth any power draw spikes, which would be minimal. The rest of the processor uses 3V, which can also be added separately (2 cells). Power the discrete clock from battery as well and you have a VERY nice sounding setup improvement. A couple of small, NO/NC relays to a simply DC/DC charger and youre ready to rock.

Oxidation isnt an issue with good mechanical connection that is soldered and shrink tubed.

 

Slap your ohm meter on each side of a metal tabbed and soldered connection, let me know if it shows anything other than O.L.

Impedance isnt even a factor with such small current and voltage draws.

 

Powering a processor or DAC chip direct from a battery is incorrect, you need voltage regulation to ensure a stable voltage when switching.

Power delivery system impedance is critical for any switching circuit, the impedance must be calculated at the desired switching frequencies, what you are proposing is incorrect, and whilst it may work is not the best option for signal integrity/EMC (which equates to sound quality).

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11 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

The situation you just described is far from typical of the requirements of the vast majority of C.A. members.

 

So you have also added 2 cells to obtain 3V ? What type of 1.5V cells are you using that are rechargeable, and you can solder into circuit without mechanical connections ?

 BTW, most low voltage relays draw a considerable amount of current, with coil resistance typically around 78 ohms to 180 ohms for even a 5V relay.

LOL he'll be lucky to get a steady 3V,  maybe a day with a bag of different type batteries and a DVM would be educational.... of course its best to measure the battery voltage when a high current pulse is required, then he may realise that a direct battery is not much use...

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31 minutes ago, marce said:

Powering a processor or DAC chip direct from a battery is incorrect, you need voltage regulation to ensure a stable voltage when switching.

Power delivery system impedance is critical for any switching circuit

Switching circuit??? Seriously?

Tell my what makes the powering of the ESS9028 processor a "switching" circuit..

 

28 minutes ago, marce said:

LOL he'll be lucky to get a steady 3V,  maybe a day with a bag of different type batteries and a DVM would be educational.... of course its best to measure the battery voltage when a high current pulse is required, then he may realise that a direct battery is not much use...

 

"high current" D/A processor?? Sure....It really sucks the juice! lol

Any "pulse" in current is dealt with by using smoothing caps of course

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15 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

"high current" D/A processor?? Sure....It really sucks the juice! lol

Any "pulse" in current is dealt with by using smoothing caps of course


 BTW, Marc's daytime job is designing mundane things like multi layer , high tech Motherboards among other things.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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20 minutes ago, sandyk said:


 BTW, Marc's daytime job is designing mundane things like multi layer , high tech Motherboards among other things.

That maybe so, but Im not talikng about mosfet's or DC to DC converters or PWM here...a simple low power DC source

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2 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

That maybe so, but Im not talikng about mosfet's or DC to DC converters here...a simple low power DC source

 

Don't just take Marc's word for it though, ask E.E. John Swenson in the Uptone area of the Forum.

IIRC,  A fast switching transient can act like a momentary s/c on the supply lines.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 minute ago, WuNgUn said:

Dont you sleep Sandy? lol

 

I am almost certainly in a different time zone to you, and YES, it's getting close to my bed time. If only it wasn't so damn hot , and with several more days of the same coming. :o

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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10 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

I am almost certainly in a different time zone to you, and YES, it's getting close to my bed time. If only it wasn't so damn hot , and with several more days of the same coming. :o

Ahh...I see we're both a part of the commonwealth....

But my climate is vastly different than yours right now ;)

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1 hour ago, WuNgUn said:

Switching circuit??? Seriously?

Tell my what makes the powering of the ESS9028 processor a "switching" circuit..

 

 

"high current" D/A processor?? Sure....It really sucks the juice! lol

Any "pulse" in current is dealt with by using smoothing caps of course

You don't have a clue do you...

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Smoothing caps do not cater for the instantaneous current requirements required when digital IC's switch. We are talking high di/dt so the requirement is an initial high current requirement, that smoothing caps won't supply, its the local decoupling caps, power plane pairs capacitance and the on die capacitance.

Why do you think I refer to the Power Delivery System instead of just the main power supply...

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2 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

you are talking about fucking up the supply...

I am talking about doing the job properly, from experience, we are discussing getting the most out of a device, power supply to said device is critical.

I am currently doing a board to drive the laser for a Vector laser magnetometer, so I am working with high speed 20 bit dac's, 10+GHz microwave, super dooper clocks, everything similar to audio only a few orders of magnitude more critical, what I do on this design is relevant to audio designs...

 

Anyway please explain why I am messing with the supply (there was no need to use such an invective)?

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