A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[seeteeyou]

Actually I (or we?) prefer something with 1.1A (not 1.2A) because lower current draw would tend to result in lower ripple. Therefore we're also keeping the power consumption of a music server super low for the sake of noise reduction IMHO.

 

If we're fine with 1.0A and let's say our DIY skills are good enough, here's a little something for $22.95 shipped

 

http://www.ldovr.com/product-p/lt3045-a.htm

 

This one is rated @ 3A and obviously it's costing more

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/310402-fs-ultra-low-noise-power-supply-lt3045-based-pcb-2.html#post5227003

[Speedskater]

14 hours ago, WuNgUn said:

And yet others proclaim external, clean DC power for the SSD does diddly... 

Not all members have well designed components.

[WuNgUn]

1 hour ago, mozes said:

Value is subjective. If you find that battery let me know, I will buy it right away.

Buy....? 

You prob have batteries all over your house... Start there. 

[ElviaCaprice]

Nothing wrong with battery power.  It's a safe way to isolate and cheap.  But I agree with others, it has it's own influence on sound signature and is not as good as a quality LPS.  This is common accepted knowledge here and not even debatable anymore.  But if you find a battery source that can rival any of our accepted best LPS's, please share your listening test findings.

 

Thus my refusal to buy a battery powered Chord DAC.

[Lebouwsky]

Sorry for this perhaps silly question, but how does one power an ssd externally and which cable is needed?

[Johnseye]

28 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

Sorry for this perhaps silly question, but how does one power an ssd externally and which cable is needed?

 

It's not a silly question.  I obtained my sata power adapter from SOtM.  Note the black and red cable between the sata filter and the external device PC slot cover in the bottom right of this picture.

 

 

 

[WuNgUn]

2 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Nothing wrong with battery power.  It's a safe way to isolate and cheap.  But I agree with others, it has it's own influence on sound signature and is not as good as a quality LPS.  This is common accepted knowledge here and not even debatable anymore.  But if you find a battery source that can rival any of our accepted best LPS's, please share your listening test findings.

 

Thus my refusal to buy a battery powered Chord DAC.

How can you be certain battery power isnt providing a natural sound and AC/DC regulated power is influencing the signature?

[Lebouwsky]

23 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

It's not a silly question.  I obtained my sata power adapter from SOtM.  Note the black and red cable between the sata filter and the external device PC slot cover in the bottom right of this picture.

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing this picture, very valuable, it is the route I want to take, mostly because of you and Roy’s observations. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is what I see:

* 1 dc cabling lay-out for tx-usbexp, tx-usbultra and sclk

* 4 points coming out of sclk(ethernet, motherboard, tx-usbultra and tx-usbexp

* txusbexp directly in (mini) PCI lane.

* sata data cable going from mb to sata filter

* modified sata power cable going to sata filter

 

Note sure where the dc in goes for the tx-usbexp, tx-usbultra and sclk

 

I guess an usb cable will connect the tx-usbexp to the tx-usb ultra and from there to the dac, but not shown in picture and all goes into 1 case right? (except ultra ofcourse)

 

 

[sandyk]

33 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

How can you be certain battery power isnt providing a natural sound and AC/DC regulated power is influencing the signature?

 You are conveniently ignoring the fact that even when using say a 12V Li Ion battery, that it needs some sort of voltage regulation after it in order to provide a highly stable output voltage, which is essential for high quality Xtal oscillators etc.

This means that you will also need to use suitable value, most likely electrolytic/tantalum etc. capacitors at the input and output of the regulator, which will introduce their own unique sound signature.

 

"Buy....? 

You prob have batteries all over your house... Start there. "

 

Unless the batteries have solder tabs you will also  need to use suitable connectors, and it may not be a good idea to do this due to battery aging and charging requirements.

 Some members actually use 4 x NiMh batteries in series to provide a low noise isolated +5V supply.

 However, to do this you will normally need to use something like the attached, including a clip on plug with leads to solder into circuit.

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/s5031-4-x-aa-square-battery-holder/

 Note the large number of metal to metal contacts needed, each with their own contribution of series resistance.

Your ideal low impedance power source now has a much higher source impedance.

In this case, there are now 10 additional small resistances in series whose resistance will slowly increase over a period of time due to oxidisation.

[WuNgUn]

15 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 You are conveniently ignoring the fact that even when using say a 12V Li Ion battery, that it needs some sort of voltage regulation after it in order to provide a highly stable output voltage, which is essential for high quality Xtal oscillators etc.

This means that you will also need to use suitable value, most likely electrolytic/tantalum etc. capacitors at the input and output of the regulator, which will introduce their own unique sound signature.

Unless the batteries have solder tabs you will also  need to use suitable connectors, and it may not be a good idea to do this due to battery aging and charging requirements.

 Some members actually use 4 x NiMh batteries in series to provide a low noise isolated +5V supply.

 However, to do this you will normally need to use something like the attached, including a clip on plug with leads to solder into circuit.

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/s5031-4-x-aa-square-battery-holder/

 Note the large number of metal to metal contacts needed, each with their own contribution of series resistance.

Your ideal low impedance power source now has a much higher source impedance.

In this case, there are now 10 additional small resistances in series whose resistance will slowly increase over a period of time due to oxidisation.

I can power the processor of my DAC separately from the opamp/outout stage...which already has a high quality PSU...and it only requires 1.2V. No regulation needed, just a capacitor to smooth any power draw spikes, which would be minimal. The rest of the processor uses 3V, which can also be added separately (2 cells). Power the discrete clock from battery as well and you have a VERY nice sounding setup improvement. A couple of small, NO/NC relays to a simply DC/DC charger and youre ready to rock.

Oxidation isnt an issue with good mechanical connection that is soldered and shrink tubed.

 

Slap your ohm meter on each side of a metal tabbed and soldered connection, let me know if it shows anything other than O.L.

Impedance isnt even a factor with such small current and voltage draws.

 

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

I can power the processor of my DAC separately from the opamp/outout stage...which already has a high quality PSU...and it only requires 1.2V. No regulation needed, just a capacitor to smooth any power draw spikes, which would be minimal. The rest of the processor uses 3V, which can also be added separately (2 cells). Power the discrete clock from battery as well and you have a VERY nice sounding setup improvement. A couple of small, NO/NC relays to a simply DC/DC charger and youre ready to rock.

Oxidation isnt an issue with good mechanical connection that is soldered and shrink tubed.

 

Slap your ohm meter on each side of a metal tabbed and soldered connection, let me know if it shows anything other than O.L. Impedance isnt even a factor with such small current and voltage draws.

lol

 

 

The situation you just described is far from typical of the requirements of the vast majority of C.A. members.

 

So you have also added 2 cells to obtain 3V ? What type of 1.5V cells are you using that are rechargeable, and you can solder into circuit without mechanical connections ?

 BTW, most low voltage relays draw a considerable amount of current, with coil resistance typically around 78 ohms to 180 ohms for even a 5V relay.

[Johnseye]

27 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

Thank you for sharing this picture, very valuable, it is the route I want to take, mostly because of you and Roy’s observations. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is what I see:

* 1 dc cabling lay-out for tx-usbexp, tx-usbultra and sclk

* 4 points coming out of sclk(ethernet, motherboard, tx-usbultra and tx-usbexp

* txusbexp directly in (mini) PCI lane.

* sata data cable going from mb to sata filter

* modified sata power cable going to sata filter

 

Note sure where the dc in goes for the tx-usbexp, tx-usbultra and sclk

 

I guess an usb cable will connect the tx-usbexp to the tx-usb ultra and from there to the dac, but not shown in picture and all goes into 1 case right? (except ultra ofcourse)

 

 

 

My current power application differs slightly from this picture.  It was the best pic I had to show the sata power.  This layout is completely viable, I just eliminated the internal power source from the motherboard.

 

9v Power comes in from an input on the tX-USBexp.  From that I feed the sCLK-EX which then feeds the tX-USBultra via the blue and white cable.

 

What's different from the picture is imagine that blue and white cable running to the left plugs directly into the tX-USBexp.

 

Some other things I changed recently were shorter RF leads once I knew how much length I needed inside the mobo, and a single direct connection via RF lead from the sCLK-EX to the input on the tX-USBultra.  Total length is 6" I think.  That requires the tX-USBultra to be back to back with the PC, but it works for me.  I like short cables.

 

There is a USB cbale from the tX-USBexp to the tX-USBultra, then another to the DAC.  All goes into one case.  I could probably pull out what's in the tX-USBultra and put that in the case but it

would need some customization and not worth it to me....yet.

 

Here's a picture from before I made my most recent changes with the shorter RF leads.

 

 

[WuNgUn]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

The situation you just described is far from typical of the requirements of the vast majority of C.A. members.

 

So you have also added 2 cells to obtain 3V ? What type of 1.5V cells are you using that are rechargeable, and you can solder into circuit without mechanical connections ?

Well, maybe I should play over at DIYAudio instead, then....

We are discussing the merits....not the practise...It matters not to me if any of this pertains to anyone else.

Also, I didnt say I dont have a mechanical connection to the DAC. You need a good mechanical connection at the electrical connection joint, to which you then solder. I.E. cell to cell electrical connection...

As for makng your own packs, this is a good example of the basics....

 

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

We are discussing the merits....not the practise...It matters not to me if any of this pertains to anyone else.

Also, I didnt say I dont have a mechanical connection to the DAC. You need a good mechanical connection at the electrical connection joint, to which you then solder. I.E. cell to cell electrical connection...

As for makng your own packs, this is a good example of the basics....

 

You didn't answer my question as to what type of 1.5V cells that you use that are rechargeable, and if possible also have solder tabs.

 This kind of information could be of interest to other members.

[WuNgUn]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

You didn't answer my question as to what type of 1.5V cells that you use that are rechargeable, and if possible also have solder tabs.

 This kind of information could be of interest to other members.

 1.2V...NiMH do nicely...for that section of my DAC

For my 3V, a pair of Li-Ion at 1.5V each is ideal.

https://www.batterymart.com/p-powerizer-c-nimh-rechargeable-battery-solder-tabs.html

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

 1.2V...NiMH do nicely...for that section of my DAC

For my 3V, a pair of Li-Ion at 1.5V each is ideal.

https://www.batterymart.com/p-powerizer-c-nimh-rechargeable-battery-solder-tabs.html

 

 Are you sure you couldn't have chosen something a little larger such as a D Cell ?

 

"For my 3V, a pair of Li-Ion at 1.5V each is ideal." 

Do you have any catalogue numbers ?  These can often be quite expensive, especially when you factor in the price of a suitable charger for 1.5V Li Ion batteries. A normal charger for NiMH batteries is not suitable. 

[WuNgUn]

3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 Are you sure you couldn't have chosen something a little larger such as a D Cell ?

Sure! Why not....

Why not parallel 2 or 3 cells? 

A single C sized NiMH cell is 5000mah BTW

[WuNgUn]

I should of said, for the MONEY, you cant beat battery DC source....

Would it sound better than a LPS? Would my ears hear the diff? Doubt it...

Id sooner spend that $400 on recapping speaker xovers or driver upgrades or towards a new preamp or amp, where you can really hear the difference  

[sandyk]

18 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

A single C sized NiMH cell is 5000mah BTW

 

Yes, and may be suitable for electric drill packs etc.

 

 I use a 12V 15,000mAH Li Ion battery into a JLH PSU Add-on to power my USB memory sticks for highest quality SQ using an Uptone USB Regen. The 12V Li Ion battery sounds better with the JLH in line (no voltage drop)

This is also in line with other members' findings when using voltage regulators such as the LT3045 after a battery.

Just as with different formula electrolytic capacitors from different vendors,(perhaps Ultracaps too ?)  different types of batteries are likely to have slightly different sound signatures for the same reason.

I can fine tune the sound by a small amount by simply varying the type (esr ,not capacitance) of the electros in the JLH Capacitance Multiplier section.

[tims]

Hi @Johnseye

 

From your description of your power supply chain: tX-USBexp > sCLK-EX > txUSBultra, I'm curious if you tried powering the txUSBultra with it's own (good quality PS) and not from the sCLK-EX output.  If so, was there any difference SQ wise?

 

The reason I ask is that I've had my sotm sMS-1000U player upgraded to an SQ version (with a tx-USBexp and sCLK-EX) and I also got sotm to use one of the sCLK-EX clock points to feed an external tx-USBhubEX that I hope makes it essentially a tx-USBultra.

If I can somehow power the tx-USBhubEX with the output of the sCLK-EX then this will save me a substantial amount buying a LPS-1 or something similar to power the tx-USBhubEX.

 

Cheers.

[rickca]

3 hours ago, Johnseye said:

I obtained my sata power adapter from SOtM.  Note the black and red cable between the sata filter and the external device PC slot cover in the bottom right of this picture.

OK that assembly is exactly what I need.  Where can I order this online so I can power an internal SSD with external 5V LPS?  I need a DC jack for an LPS-1.  I haven't been able to find something like this googling.

 

Lots of people seem to do this.  I don't have DIY skills to make it myself.  Thanks.

[d_elm]

28 minutes ago, rickca said:

OK that assembly is exactly what I need.  Where can I order this online so I can power an internal SSD with external 5V LPS?  I need a DC jack for an LPS-1.  I haven't been able to find something like this googling.

 

Lots of people seem to do this.  I don't have DIY skills to make it myself.  Thanks.

I received a 5.5/2.1 converter from

 

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00MJU9K5A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

May not be your vendor of choice but the product does exist.   Shipping took two months.

 

[rickca]

@d_elm thanks but I'm looking for the entire assembly ... bracket with DC jack to SATA connector, not just a 5.5/2.1 adapter.

[seeteeyou]

Since ghentaudio should be selling this kinda cable already

 

https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc24.html

 

 

It should be fairly straightforward for him to make similar ones with female SATA power connectors, it's just replacing Molex 43025-0200 with Molex 67582-0000

 

https://www.mouser.com/access/?pn=WM3466-ND

http://www.molex.com/molex/products/listview.jsp?query=67582&sType=s&channel=products

 

[Lebouwsky]

30 minutes ago, rickca said:

@d_elm thanks but I'm looking for the entire assembly ... bracket with DC jack to SATA connector, not just a 5.5/2.1 adapter.

Might this be an option:

https://www.moddiy.com/products/SATA-to-Gridseed-Power-Plug-(2.1mm-DC-Barrel-Plug).html