A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[mozes]

2 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

That's a winner for approximately $150 even though BIOS options don't offer anything for running both CPU and RAM at 800MHz.

 

Now there's a fairly important question to ask - could a single unit of LPS-1.2 with 13.2 watts (1.1A @ 12V) provide enough power for running Celeron J1900 or not? Most likely that won't work if all 4 cores were active but only ONE active core could do the trick

 

https://www.supermicro.com/manuals/motherboard/J1900/MNL-1553.pdf#page=75

 

In addition, we could also add Maximum Processor Frequency in Windows 10 Power Options manually

 

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/95580-add-remove-maximum-processor-frequency-windows-10-power-options.html

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/95574-change-maximum-processor-frequency-windows-10-a.html

 

Other options are also available

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/6gdv6z/i_wrote_a_script_to_unhide_all_advanced_power/

 

Basically we should be able to power X10SBA with LPS-1.2 (or DC3 Power Supply from Custom HiFi Cables) while something else like Intel X25-E could be powered by LT3045 accordingly

 

Your posts are always very informative. I appreciate the time and research efforts that go behind these posts! 

[jean-michel6]

6 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

True, but a big part is the superb power supply

Yes I agree the PSU is also an important part and innuos has done a good job on that. 

But i was amazed of the huge gap between the super micro board and the gigabyte. 

Ifi power is a good power for it's price but of course there are many options to go further. 

In my set up I have a few advantages over innuos choices 

- the two pc set up allow to have the simplest and less heavy software ( light Linux distro for audio with roon bridge ) on one pc for only the player...

- i have zero accessory drawing power from this board , only the board itself and the CPU and only 2gb ram. This allow for very low power consumption. The 12v input with 1.8A psu did the job easily. 

 

 

[jean-michel6]

19 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 I use a dual +12V to +5V JLH PSU add-on for both my internal SSDs which improves their isolation from each other and the internal  SMPS.

 

Yes you are right use separate psu for each single equipment in the audio chain is one of the golden recipy to achieve better sound. 

It makes the system somewhat more complicated but it is very effective. v

[jean-michel6]

4 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

That's a winner for approximately $150 even though BIOS options don't offer anything for running both CPU and RAM at 800MHz.

 

Now there's a fairly important question to ask - could a single unit of LPS-1.2 with 13.2 watts (1.1A @ 12V) provide enough power for running Celeron J1900 or not? Most likely that won't work if all 4 cores were active but only ONE active core could do the trick

 

https://www.supermicro.com/manuals/motherboard/J1900/MNL-1553.pdf#page=75

 

In addition, we could also add Maximum Processor Frequency in Windows 10 Power Options manually

 

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/95580-add-remove-maximum-processor-frequency-windows-10-power-options.html

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/95574-change-maximum-processor-frequency-windows-10-a.html

 

Other options are also available

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/6gdv6z/i_wrote_a_script_to_unhide_all_advanced_power/

 

Basically we should be able to power X10SBA with LPS-1.2 (or DC3 Power Supply from Custom HiFi Cables) while something else like Intel X25-E could be powered by LT3045 accordingly

 

You are right maybe the new LPS 1.2 could power this board. 

I will try to measure the power consumption since the ifipower was lukewarm after 1 hour it is maybe in the range of the 1.2. 

 

You have a very sharp eye :-).  I read several times this X10sba excellent manual and I overlook the capability to run 4 core or 1 . This is probably something to try even though I think it should make the system somewhat slower but maybe sufficient for audio.  

 

Yes no option to slower processor speed .

 

The X10sba-l used by innuos is may be even better as it has some hardware removed from the board ( additional sata controler.... ). I may try this board since I need 2 boards , I will probably try the x10sbal-l in player function and x10sba in server function as I need three sata port for the server. 

I have not yes optimise the bios set up which allow to turn off most of unused board hardware. 

 

 

[sandyk]

32 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

Yes you are right use separate psu for each single equipment in the audio chain is one of the golden recipy to achieve better sound. 

It makes the system somewhat more complicated but it is very effective. v

 

In my case, it was easy to implement using the existing +12V SMPS into the dual regulated JLH PCBs which are mounted to the bottom of the PC's case. We don't need to use Linear PSUs everywhere.

[beautiful music]

On ٢٠‏/١‏/٢٠١٨ at 3:35 AM, seeteeyou said:

FYI - it's quite interesting to see what motherboards were chosen for some music servers

 

Innuos ZENith Mk.II = Supermicro X10SBA-L
https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=3853

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/celeron/x10/x10sba-l.cfm

 

Antipodes Audio DX Gen 2 = Jetway NF9W
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=74&tab=comments#comment-663416

http://jetwaycomputer.com/NF9W.html

 

Fidelizer Nimitra = Realan LR-J1900T1
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/126194-fidelizer-nimitra-audio-server-whats-going-on-here/

http://www.minicase.net/product_LR-J1900T1.html

 

Clones Audio HOST Music Server = Asrock J3710-ITX
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2017/04/30/review-clones-audio-host-music-server/

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/J3710-ITX/

 

Pink Faun AV Streamer = Asrock FM2A88X-ITX+
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/pinkfaun/2.html
https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X-ITX+/

 

Sound Galleries SGM 2015 = Asus Z170M-PLUS
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/soundgalleries/3.html

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z170M-PLUS/

Thank you @seeteeyou for this information

[seeteeyou]

On 12/14/2017 at 5:24 AM, sandyk said:

 This sounds like overkill to me.

 You can markedly improve the performance of an internal BR drives by ensuring that the PSU area supplying it is highly stable under the varying load conditions on it's +12V and +5 V supply rails. This will also help to ensure the writing of high quality discs.

The same applies to the +5V supply rails for SSDs . The stability of their internal Xtal oscillators can only be as good as the power supply for them.

 

Thanks @sandyk for the reply, I'd like to know if a similar mod with LT3045 were applicable to those internal Xtal oscillators of motherboards and storage devices by any chance?

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/29553-my-very-mini-review-of-the-singxer-su-1-ddc/?page=47&tab=comments#comment-769225

 

If LT3045 were the way to go, how do we figure out the voltage required for powering those internal Xtal oscillators?

 

In addition, how could one trace the power inputs of those internal Xtal oscillators?

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Thanks @sandyk for the reply, I'd like to know if a similar mod with LT3045 were applicable to those internal Xtal oscillators of motherboards and storage devices by any chance?

 

You would need to use 2 parallel +5V .5A  LT3045s, or a single +5V 1A LT3045 PCB  to power internal SSDs for  example, and TBH, I doubt that the heat sinking on them at present would be adequate for long sustained reads and writes. You would also need to use another  adjustable voltage regulator ahead of them (LM317T etc.) if using a +12V supply rail to reduce the input voltage into them so that there wasn't a big Input to Output voltage differential which would cause them to overheat.

However in a DAC for example, if the Xtal Oscillators were 3.3V types and you also had a +5V supply available, you could use a .5A 3.3V LT3045 to provide very low noise power to the Xtal oscillator.

[KingRex]

I have heard, why bother with the linear PS on the switch.  Why not get a JCAT Ethernet card and take the NAS direct to the server.  Any thoughts. 

[ElviaCaprice]

25 minutes ago, KingRex said:

I have heard, why bother with the linear PS on the switch.  Why not get a JCAT Ethernet card and take the NAS direct to the server.  Any thoughts. 

Why even do that?  sCLK-EX server (LAN sCLK-EX point) or HDD connected (powered separately) via server SATA connector.  Drop the NAS, ethernet, switch, etc.  Go direct USB via tXUSBexp to DAC.

[Lebouwsky]

5 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Why even do that?  sCLK-EX server (LAN sCLK-EX point) or HDD connected (powered separately) via server SATA connector.  Drop the NAS, ethernet, switch, etc.  Go direct USB via tXUSBexp to DAC.

Very interesting. How do you control the server if there’s no ethernet? Do you use spinning hdd for library storage?

[beautiful music]

Does someone here have Mojo, Hugo2 and SOtM Trifecta?

 

Because i would like to know if SOtM Ultra devices have more enhancement in sound than the Hugo2 over Mojo?

[LTG2010]

57 minutes ago, Lebouwsky said:

Very interesting. How do you control the server if there’s no ethernet? Do you use spinning hdd for library storage?

yes HDD or SSD (expensive) either via SATA or you could use a second txUSBexp and connect your Hard discs via USB hard disc caddy.

SLC compact flash is a very good way via USB but these are rare and hugely expensive.

[WuNgUn]

3 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

yes HDD or SSD (expensive) either via SATA or you could use a second txUSBexp and connect your Hard discs via USB hard disc caddy.

SLC compact flash is a very good way via USB but these are rare and hugely expensive.

Of you're using a USB audio device, I wouldn't clutter up the busway with all that extra traffic... 

[LTG2010]

23 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

Of you're using a USB audio device, I wouldn't clutter up the busway with all that extra traffic... 

I think the benefit is that you are using the PCIE interface with USB PCIE cards, a more direct low latency route to CPU. Very small amount of traffic generated for audio use. As opposed to the 'noisy',SATA route. Generally users have gotten good results and even transfered their OS to external HDD. I actually use SATA just noting the reasons.

[ElviaCaprice]

Delete, this editor sucks on CA.

[lmitche]

49 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

I think the benefit is that you are using the PCIE interface with USB PCIE cards, a more direct low latency route to CPU. Very small amount of traffic generated for audio use. As opposed to the 'noisy',SATA route. Generally users have gotten good results and even transfered their OS to external HDD. I actually use SATA just noting the reasons.

I'm using USB 3 cards with vbus powered from a lps-1 with connections to a usb NIC, music HDD, and USB 2 DAC, in CPU direct PCIE slots.  SQ is wonderful.

 

System boots from Optane SSD in NVME slot.

[limniscate]

4 hours ago, beautiful music said:

Does someone here have Mojo, Hugo2 and SOtM Trifecta?

 

Because i would like to know if SOtM Ultra devices have more enhancement in sound than the Hugo2 over Mojo?

I would say yes.  @austinpop and I tested @romaz Hugo2 in my system with the SOtM sMS-200 Ultra, dX-USB Ultra, clocked switch.  Keep in mind that most solid state DACs sound the same to me.  YMMV

[KingRex]

10 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Why even do that?  sCLK-EX server (LAN sCLK-EX point) or HDD connected (powered separately) via server SATA connector.  Drop the NAS, ethernet, switch, etc.  Go direct USB via tXUSBexp to DAC.

I guess I jumped into the middle.  This is a pretty heavy stream. I use a single Mojo Audio server.  I USB to the DAC.  My internal storage is far more quiet than my network.  I was told to upgrade with a JCAT femto Ethernet with its own power supply.  Bypass the switch.  

 

How important is the router when accessing Tidal. I have a Arris.  Internal PS.  

[ElviaCaprice]

29 minutes ago, KingRex said:

I guess I jumped into the middle.  This is a pretty heavy stream. I use a single Mojo Audio server.  I USB to the DAC.  My internal storage is far more quiet than my network.  I was told to upgrade with a JCAT femto Ethernet with its own power supply.  Bypass the switch.  

 

How important is the router when accessing Tidal. I have a Arris.  Internal PS.  

That JCAT femto is an option but I wouldn't half ass it.  Apply those funds to the sCLK-EX board purchase with modification done by SOtM to the server.  Now you got something that even makes software optimization a mute matter, in my opinion.  

Your never going to get as good of SQ from a router based internet stream as you would from your own data source. But you can try to clean it up.  The sCLK-EX point on the LAN of the server would go a long way towards that.  Now everything is so simple.

[LTG2010]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

I'm using USB 3 cards with vbus powered from a lps-1 with connections to a usb NIC, music HDD, and USB 2 DAC, in CPU direct PCIE slots.  SQ is wonderful.

 

System boots from Optane SSD in NVME slot.

That sounds great, very balanced.

 I would like to build a multi PCIE system, Optane boot drive, Optane ssd for storage, Optane memory, with PCIE network and USB cards. A motherboard with multi Pcie slots and a low powered 8 core processor will help. The cost of Optane stuff especially SSD is a bit insane.

[lmitche]

20 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

That sounds great, very balanced.

 I would like to build a multi PCIE system, Optane boot drive, Optane ssd for storage, Optane memory, with PCIE network and USB cards. A motherboard with multi Pcie slots and a low powered 8 core processor will help. The cost of Optane stuff especially SSD is a bit insane.

The 32 gb Optane Windows boot drive used above cost $80 and sits in a motherboard M.2 NVME slot.

[RickyV]

13 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

Thanks @sandyk for the reply, I'd like to know if a similar mod with LT3045 were applicable to those internal Xtal oscillators of motherboards and storage devices by any chance?

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/29553-my-very-mini-review-of-the-singxer-su-1-ddc/?page=47&tab=comments#comment-769225

 

If LT3045 were the way to go, how do we figure out the voltage required for powering those internal Xtal oscillators?

 

In addition, how could one trace the power inputs of those internal Xtal oscillators?

 

Here is how to replace a xo/Xtal.

http://newclassd.com/index.php?page=37&hv=1

Just did that this weekend to my netgear Fs105 v3 switch. Next up is the network xo on the mobo. 

 

Before

After

[RickyV]

[auricgoldfinger]

I have to upgrade the HDD's in my Synology to get more storage space.  I would greatly appreciate suggestions for suitable quiet 3.5 inch drives.  Given all of the emphasis on noise reduction, I am hesitant to buy a 7200 RPM drive, but some of those drives often offer larger cache which may be beneficial.