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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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1 hour ago, KingRex said:

Then cut the spades off.  They will impact performance.  Do you have (2) duplex receptacles in a wall box or just one.  See photo.  I want to send a picture demonstrating how I would wire them.

 

Can you pull, the face off your transformer and send a picture.  Need to see that too.  This one is hard wired with wire nuts. My other had a terminal block. I want to look at the screws.  See photo. 

 

 

53 minutes ago, KingRex said:

This is how I wire a quad.  I am only showing the white and ground for the example. Notice the jumper on the neutral. Notice the ground is open to the clockwise rotation of the screw so it will clamp tight when you torque the screw. Also notice on the ground I pinched the wire together before tightening it. Most of the better receptacles have clamps on the side of the ground just like on the neutral and hot. If I were working with a number six I would pigtail off with number tens. This configuration is called a pigtail.  The tan wirenut is good for 3x#10 wires. Red is easier for a novice. 

 

Here's how I twisted the hot, neutral and ground.  I've got about 190 ft between the two circuits.  I'm looking at about $3k worth of work once the drywall repairs are done, plus the transformer which was another $350.  In the end, it was worth it but I can think of a lot of other things I'd rather spend $3k on.

 

20180112_104754.thumb.jpg.1b0b5191900835ad4470a6ca8c5de8a4.jpg

 

Some outlets are duplex, some are quads.  Here's an example of a duplex (cryo'd Hubble for what it's worth).  This was done by the electrician.  I don't like the size of the nuts, they're too big and take up more space inside the box than needed.  Notice the spade on the ground.  The outlet looks close to the floor because I built a riser for a second tier of theater seats.

 

20180116_225441.thumb.jpg.5d7ee73beb74c4cf2409cbd7ee119b44.jpg20180116_225424.thumb.jpg.290b130869dcc8eb9f681585890f0989.jpg

 

 

Here's the H side of the transformer.  It is in immaculate condition.  The X side is a bit more complicated and where I struggled with grounding the neutral.  I actually did the wiring on this.  There's a slight hum when sitting on the wood.  Much less on carpet.  I've got it sitting in a closet in the back end of the room.  Out of sight, sound and mind.  This sits between the breaker and 2 outlets, one hosting my amp and sub in the front of the room and the other hosting all my two channel gear off a single Shunyata PDU.

 

I introduced it at the same time as all the wiring and some other changes.  I plan to connect all my gear using an extension cord to the other dedicated circuit I had installed.  Then I can compare with and without.  What I believe I am hearing, with this is dead, black quiet where it should be, revealing sounds, or more of the music I couldn't hear before.  Recorded sounds like breath and guitar amp hum is much more noticeable.

 

20180116_225639.thumb.jpg.fe517a51d083ae38cdea5dd6fb6b6d1e.jpg20180116_225649.thumb.jpg.c44dea9da0ecfdd24c3b3103affe8dc4.jpg

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Nice job.  If it's sounding good, I would not mess with the spades.  It is hard to get a solid connection in the transformer without them.  The ground on the receptacle should be fine.   Don't remove the wire nuts to utilize smaller.  If you do, you have to trim off  1/2" or so of the copper, re-strip, then put the new wirenut on.  If you don't cut the wire back, the scoring from the old wirenut on the conductor will cause heat and failures.  This can lead to arching and a fire, or a wire just pops out of the nut and you loose power.  

 

I like the twisting you did.  Looks tight and even.  

 

I am curious your thought on the transformer.  Let us know your thoughts when you have time to try it in and out of the system.

 

Congrats, it's money well spent.  

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Good work there @Johnseye glad to hear that you're hearing nothing! Little noise that is.

 

I can't make out the rating on the wire at the H end, does it have 105C on it or something higher perhaps? 75C wire on a Topaz is not enough, it starts to be really soft, there's something on that advice in an old manual, and I can back this up. I pulled out a 1kVA and the 75C cables were really, soft and sloppy, for the 2.5kVA Topaz, the treatment is Teflon SPC cables, which are rated an overkill to 300C, so should be fine!

 

A Topaz on timber is going to rattle, since the transformer vibrates as a natural action to rid the system of common mode noise. The noise is converted to heat and vibration. Timber dries out and the fibres aren't that cosy with heat, so something more solid like bolted to a 3/8in steel plate.

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13 hours ago, KingRex said:

What are you powering. I don't like the transformer on front end gear, but it was great with my CJ amp. 

 

I have a TOPAZ 91001-22  (1kva/.001pF) connected to the wall and a DIY bar with OYAIDE plugs connected to the TOPAZ. 

DAC, PREAMP, AMP and MACmini are connected to the power bar, so yes all goes to the Topaz, so far it makes the sound a lot cleaner than with the TOPAZ 91002-32 which i believe it needs to be fixed to achieve its best.

 

Any suggestions to fix it? Inside it looks exactly as the one you showed

 

 

 

  88E31DD2-F18E-4ECA-BC59-7F9DCB2F9536.JPG.thumb.JPG.456cfd58e4cc47cfd0effcf91cf62d89.JPG

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4 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

 

I have a TOPAZ 91001-22  (1kva/.001pF) connected to the wall and a DIY bar with OYAIDE plugs connected to the TOPAZ. 

DAC, PREAMP, AMP and MACmini are connected to the power bar, so yes all goes to the Topaz, so far it makes the sound a lot cleaner than with the TOPAZ 91002-32 which i believe it needs to be fixed to achieve its best.

 

Any suggestions to fix it? Inside it looks exactly as the one you showed

 

 

 

  88E31DD2-F18E-4ECA-BC59-7F9DCB2F9536.JPG.thumb.JPG.456cfd58e4cc47cfd0effcf91cf62d89.JPG

I don't understand that the 91002-32 needs to be fixed, can you explain further?

 

The 91002-32 is a 2.4kVA device, by fixed, do you mean fixed wiring, given the 20A rating? Mine isn't wired in permanently at the moment (has the correct protection on it though), and it works fine. The difference between a 0.0005pF and a 0.001pf should be audible since the attenuation for common mode noise is double. 

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51 minutes ago, One and a half said:

I don't understand that the 91002-32 needs to be fixed, can you explain further?

 

The 91002-32 is a 2.4kVA device, by fixed, do you mean fixed wiring, given the 20A rating? Mine isn't wired in permanently at the moment (has the correct protection on it though), and it works fine. The difference between a 0.0005pF and a 0.001pf should be audible since the attenuation for common mode noise is double. 

 

 

I don't know what is going on with it, but i can say that the 1KVA .001pF makes my system sound better, i am suspecting the 9100-32 when refurbished they did not ended up as it should be, it makes the sound thin, noise and cold

 

I took it to an electrical engineer, but he is waiting for me to bring the "good" one to compare inside

 

I read you did not like what it did to your end, Have you had this issue?

 

 

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3 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

 

 

I don't know what is going on with it, but i can say that the 1KVA .001pF makes my system sound better, i am suspecting the 9100-32 when refurbished they did not ended up as it should be, it makes the sound thin, noise and cold

 

I took it to an electrical engineer, but he is waiting for me to bring the "good" one to compare inside

 

I read you did not like what it did to your end, Have you had this issue?

 

 

Ah, there's an audible difference using the 0.0005 for the better, small difference but noticeable.

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There is a world of difference between used and refurbished.  I worked for Square D.  There is no reason these transformers should not be running strong past 40 or more years.   Especially since they generally don't get continuous usage.   They should be rock solid to date.    

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On 1/17/2018 at 9:42 PM, One and a half said:

Ah, there's an audible difference using the 0.0005 for the better, small difference but noticeable.

If there is an audible difference, it's about the overall quality of the transformer and the installation (and outer uncontrolled variables). The fraction of a picofarad has little to do with it.

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6 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

There's something called BLACKOS-lite from PVD-AUDIO in Russia

 

https://pvd-audio.com/blackos/

 

I checked their manual and the BIOS settings were indeed 800MHz for both CPU and RAM speed

 

https://pvd-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Rekomendatsii-po-nastrojke-BIOS.pdf#page=3

 

Then I also found their server with Asrock H87M-ITX and the dedicated PSU looked totally dope, it's interesting to see how they're connecting the PSU to the 24-pin ATX connector and the 4-pin 12V connector (i.e. pretty much like Innous ZENith Mk.II) separately

 

http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=27247&st=200

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H87M-ITX/

 

C6SUIgk.jpghml1Neg.jpgSjolNxA.jpgyyPtqkc.jpg

 

BTW, there's also this $250 internal regulator module from Mojo Audio if we're looking for more current than LT3045 could provide

 

http://www.mojo-audio.com/internal-regulator-modules/

 

Unfortunately that's so much higher than what we're getting from LT3045 and SR7 etc.

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-382#post-13007750

 

Thank for this very interesting and informative post .

 

-Obviously several server manufacturer have understood that running at low CPU speed is good for the quality of the sound ( less electrical consumption gives less electrical noise ) .

 

- The mojo audio PSU is quite expensive for what it is , it is probably a good solution for people with low DIY skills  . Otherwise there is plenty in my opinion of better solutions.

One interesting one i have found in another CA thread is this one http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/310402-fs-ultra-low-noise-power-supply-lt3045-based-pcb.html

This german guy has come up with LT 3045 power board who can be either 1,5 A or 3A , i bought from him the double 1,5 A board .

I have used it to power the SSD OS on the player board in my dual PC'S 

It did made some improvement on the lower background noise ( " darker background" ) in  the sound  compare to the normal PSU for this SSD which is a linear PSU with LT1083 regulator .

It is a small improvement but it shows again that when you decrease the noise of the PSU you get better results ...even on powering a ssd which is quite far away from the audio signal itself ...

One very interesting PSU to try i think will be the new uptone audio LPS 1-2 , i have the LPS-1 and like it a lot .

 

- I found extremely interesting your last link https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-382#post-13007750

 Roy has again given very valuable information .

 What i find extremely interesting is the information about the SI ( signal integrity of the USB signal ) . It shows that several key factors  are important to insure the proper signal integrity of the USB signal to minimise the decoding work and therefore noise at the input of the DAC  and the jitter is just one part of the problem ...

I think that explains why there is now so many product on the market ( regen , txUSB ultra ...) sold to improve the quality of the USB signal received by the DAC .

 

 

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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52 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

 

I have used it to power the SSD OS on the player board in my dual PC'S 

It did made some improvement on the lower background noise ( " darker background" ) in  the sound  compare to the normal PSU for this SSD which is a linear PSU with LT1083 regulator .

It is a small improvement but it shows again that when you decrease the noise of the PSU you get better results ...even on powering a ssd which is quite far away from the audio signal itself ...

 Yes, an improved PSU to even the OS SSD, not just a storage SSD does result in an SQ improvement as you described, although many members will refuse to accept that this is possible.

Your linear PSU using the LT1083 will also have resulted in improved performance over an internal SMPS, but as you have found, the lower noise LT3045 works even better.. 

 I use a dual +12V to +5V JLH PSU add-on for both my internal SSDs which improves their isolation from each other and the internal  SMPS.

Dual +5V PSU for 2 SSDs.jpg

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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21 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Thank for this interesting information. In fact on 4 of the 6 server you mention they are using celeron low consumption CPU which is in my opinion the right direction unless you want to upsample to DSD 256 or 512. 

 

I,would like to report on Supermicro x10sba.

my current set up is dual pc ( gigabyte mobo )with celeron processor 4 ssd os and music each powered by its own linear psu , optical bridge between the two pc's.

pcie sotm USB ,tx USB ultra.

i am running a Linux roon player in one pc an server in the other

There is 4 battery network to power separately each CPU and each mobo. 

This set up is already giving me extremely good musical results. 

 

However I thought that I could make improvement on the mobo I have been using and I have search for quite sometime the right board and I did selected the super micro. 

Today I was able to finalise my projet and use the supermicro board in the player function. The server is still handled by the gigabyte mobo. 

 

The results are just amazing , my system made a huge progress in musicality .

i got a much quieter background ,better bass and much more natural top. 

Mon good recording it is mesmerizing...

 

Ob top of that the super micro was powered by a simple 12v 1,8 A  IFi smps.

With a better PSU  sound quality will raise even more. 

 

One  obvious conclusion this Spermicro x10sba is a stellar motherboard for audio pc. 

 

This is is probably part of the explanation of the very good results of innuos server 

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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