A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[sandyk]

40 minutes ago, hurka said:

Exactly.serial-higher volts,and parallel-more capacity

 

 And if you want a higher voltage rating , divide the marked capacitance of each same value Ultracap by the number of series Ultracaps used.

[sandyk]

13 hours ago, Cornan said:

17 hours ago, hurka said:

in my dac dont have regulators,just ultracaps

 

 

 What do you think is used to ensure that all the Ultracaps are used within their maximum ratings ,and also to charge the Ultracaps ?

[hurka]

3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 What do you think is used to ensure that all the Ultracaps are used within their maximum ratings ,and also to charge the Ultracaps ?

sorry about my English!maybe I don't understand exactly. each dac stages use 2 u cap banks,relays switch between charge or works periods.

[mikicasellas]

On 3/1/2018 at 5:34 PM, mozes said:

Will be interesting to see if @austinpop Zenith SE will beat the Trifecta!

I hope this is the right place for this:

 

I have not seen any info here regarding how the Bricasti M5 competes with both the Zenith and the SOtM Trifecta.

 

Has anyone compared it to the SOtM Trifecta?, it seems to offer excellent performance for its asking price:

 

"Using RAAT and any server running Roon Server, M5 not only offers more sonorous bass and a more luscious midrange, its overall sound quality is all the way at the level of the four times as expensive Aurender N10 music server, and that makes it almost a bargain!"

 

http://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/network-player-reviews/bricasti-m5-network-player/

[sandyk]

52 minutes ago, hurka said:

sorry about my English!maybe I don't understand exactly. each dac stages use 2 u cap banks,relays switch between charge or works periods.

 

Somewhere there  has to be voltage regulators used in conjunction with the Ultracaps.

The Ultracaps are just large storage devices with much higher capacitance than the usual electrolytic capacitors used after a voltage regulator. and act  more like a battery. 

Basically, in this case they charge one bank of Ultracaps while the other bank supplies the load until the need to automatically change over to the charged bank.

This helps with isolation from the A.C. mains supply.

[hurka]

7 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Somewhere there  has to be voltage regulators used in conjunction with the Ultracaps.

The Ultracaps are just large storage devices with much higher capacitance than the usual electrolytic capacitors used after a voltage regulator. and act  more like a battery. 

you are right,but we tested,and the  sound fantastic. dac stages have small electrolyt caps on board,and also use buffercaps around 1000uf/each stage, balancing the switch silence.

[mozes]

1 hour ago, mikicasellas said:

I hope this is the right place for this:

 

I have not seen any info here regarding how the Bricasti M5 competes with both the Zenith and the SOtM Trifecta.

 

Has anyone compared it to the SOtM Trifecta?, it seems to offer excellent performance for its asking price:

 

"Using RAAT and any server running Roon Server, M5 not only offers more sonorous bass and a more luscious midrange, its overall sound quality is all the way at the level of the four times as expensive Aurender N10 music server, and that makes it almost a bargain!"

 

http://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/network-player-reviews/bricasti-m5-network-player/

 Not sure if there is anyone on this thread with Bricasti M5.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, mikicasellas said:

I have not seen any info here regarding how the Bricasti M5 competes with both the Zenith and the SOtM Trifecta.

I'd love to see user feedback about the M5 as well.  I haven't seen any reviews from publications other than that one from HFA.

[Cornan]

5 hours ago, hurka said:

Added 4 today(iso r(2pcs),singxer,txusb,)

sound get worse vs the first config :iso r and tx usb ultra powered without lt3045.Maybe need burn in?or simply sps 500 better than lt3045!!?or juice not enough for tx usb ultra?

 

It needs some experimenting. You'll need to mind where possible leakage goes for each additional LT3045 you add to the chain. You do want avoid that possible leakage ends up in the DAC. Also proper juice is crucial. I haven't noticed that they require much burn-in. They get a little better quite quickly, but no major difference IME.

My worst SQ with LT3045s was when I had series LT3045s on Aqvox switch and no LT3045 on ISO Regen (with GI off). Adding series LT3045 to ISO Regen was quite mind blowing.

[hurka]

31 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

It needs some experimenting. You'll need to mind where possible leakage goes for each additional LT3045 you add to the chain. You do want avoid that possible leakage ends up in the DAC. Also proper juice is crucial. I haven't noticed that they require much burn-in. They get a little better quite quickly, but no major difference IME.

My worst SQ with LT3045s was when I had series LT3045s on Aqvox switch and no LT3045 on ISO Regen (with GI off). Adding series LT3045 to ISO Regen was quite mind blowing.

Adding parallel one more sps 500 quite mind blowing

txusb ultra really picky with psu's.iso regen also likes pure sps 500.

[jean-michel6]

9 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

You're very welcomed and that sounds exciting.

 

BTW, here's a little tip from Roy and maybe you'll find it helpful

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=50&tab=comments#comment-647362

 

He also compared 2GB memory modules to 8GB ones below

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=47&tab=comments#comment-644453

 

If you're able to run 2GB of RAM at 1,066 MHz, definitely get HMT425S6CFR6A from SK Hynix (it's like $9.95 a piece on eBay now) and you're gonna get much lower (maybe it's pretty much the lowest?) current draw to further reduce the noise

 

https://www.skhynix.com/products.view.do?vseq=1740&cseq=75

 

Thank's for this info. 

I agree that less current means less electrical noise and on our pc server set up we need to hunt for everything that can reduce current or Amp consumption :

- pick the right board , i spent quite some time before finding the super micro board

- shutdown all the processes and hardware not needed for audio

- minimize the ram size.

-.....

I am now using one 2gb memory module on the X10SBA. I am using crucial memory modules. 

I will look in the memory you recommend as lowest current draw. From my reading I got the info that Samsung memory modules were very energy efficient.  

 

 

 

[jean-michel6]

5 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Somewhere there  has to be voltage regulators used in conjunction with the Ultracaps.

The Ultracaps are just large storage devices with much higher capacitance than the usual electrolytic capacitors used after a voltage regulator. and act  more like a battery. 

Basically, in this case they charge one bank of Ultracaps while the other bank supplies the load until the need to automatically change over to the charged bank.

This helps with isolation from the A.C. mains supply.

Can you use just ultra caps after a regulator just to replace the electrolytic cap. 

Is it possible ? And is there a benefit to do that ?

[Cornan]

54 minutes ago, hurka said:

Adding parallel one more sps 500 quite mind blowing

txusb ultra really picky with psu's.iso regen also likes pure sps 500.

 

Same goal. Just different approach.  

[hurka]

yeah, make smoked regulator

(jean michel6 post)

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

It needs some experimenting. You'll need to mind where possible leakage goes for each additional LT3045 you add to the chain. You do want avoid that possible leakage ends up in the DAC.

  Micael

 You keep saying this, but I think you should discuss this area with John  Swenson before making further pronouncements

as to how series LT3045 can achieve this. Why should this be any different than using say a LM317T Pre-Regulator before the LT3045 ?Remember to, that the 0 volts line is connected all the way through too, perhaps to either an SMPS PSU or a Linear PSU which MAY also have it's 0 volts earthed directly, or via transformer Primary to Secondary winding capacitance to mains earth..

A series LT3045 can't have a lower residual noise output than a single properly implemented single LT3045 either.(Ultralow RMS Noise: 0.8μVRMS (10Hz to 100kHz)

Parallel LT3045 can however have a lower noise output than a single LT3045.

As I previously explained , unless the LT3045 have additional larger value capacitors at their input, (perhaps from the Filter capacitors of the PSU supplying it) there will be  added upper HF detail. Using another one in series, unless you fit a parallel larger value electrolytic at it's input too will further likely increase apparent upper HF detail.

Perhaps your system needs a little added HF detail, or you prefer the "airier" sound and apparent increase in soundstage that this results in ?

Perhaps Mansr or John can chime in on this and correct me if necessary, or explain how this "leakage" is reduced ?

Alex

[marce]

6 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Not if the E.E. who designed it used appropriate anti vibration measures, especially in the area of the PCB mounting and Xtal Oscillator , and also used suitable " feet"  underneath the unit.

 Unfortunately, the " Bean Counters"  will often dumb down a good mechanical area design to save a few $$

Generally it the mechanical team that put the hardware together not those poor EE's. Again though in a domestic environment I would wonder how much internal vibration the components will face and would it have any effect... 

[sandyk]

10 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

Can you use just ultra caps after a regulator just to replace the electrolytic cap. 

Is it possible ? And is there a benefit to do that ?

 

 It's not that simple . An Ultracap will act like a short circuit to a normal voltage regulator unless additional current limiting at start up is used , as it tries to draw HUGE amounts of current initially from  the voltage regulator and it's power supply.

Even  a high powered amplifier with large value filter capacitors may momentarily dim a nearby table lamp unless it uses a "soft start"circuit.

[marce]

DAC's require very stable power especially if they use a voltage reference, the more stable the voltage the better the output.

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, marce said:

Generally it the mechanical team that put the hardware together not those poor EE's. Again though in a domestic environment I would wonder how much internal vibration the components will face and would it have any effect... 

 Marc

 Not all Amplifier manufacturers have the backup of an in-house mechanical team.

 Place your media player (BR players etc.) on a carpet instead of in the equipment rack and play a high quality music file , and you are likely to hear a difference in sound.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, marce said:

DAC's require very stable power especially if they use a voltage reference, the more stable the voltage the better the output.

 

 The Xtal oscillator area benefits most from a highly stable low noise PSU.

Add an  aftermarket low phase noise Xtal oscillator, and it will normally also come with a small additional low noise PSU PCB.

It's often a waste of time doing this unless you also improve it's PSU. 

This area has been discussed on numerous occasions in DIY Audio etc.

Even the humble SBT , so beloved of many,   benefits markedly from using an improved PSU .

[jean-michel6]

23 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 It's not that simple . An Ultracap will act like a short circuit to a normal voltage regulator unless additional current limiting at start up is used , as it tries to draw HUGE amounts of current initially from  the voltage regulator and it's power supply.

Even  a high powered amplifier with large value filter capacitors may momentarily dim a nearby table lamp unless it uses a "soft start"circuit.

Thank for the clear explanation , i will not play wit supercaps for the time being as it is not that easy to implement .

[flkin]

1 hour ago, marce said:

Generally it the mechanical team that put the hardware together not those poor EE's. Again though in a domestic environment I would wonder how much internal vibration the components will face and would it have any effect... 

 

Big, big difference when components are placed on vibration managed platforms. Years ago when I placed my AR CD-7 and BAT VK-5i pre-amp on an Symposium Isis platform and replaced the existing footers with Symposium solids couplers and Rollerblocks, the change in sound was nothing short of a major system upgrade. Bigger soundstage, more solid presence, clarity of sound. A sceptical friend that helped me assemble the rack was gobsmacked by the change. 

 

Vibration management is so important that I was contemplating atomic microscope active platforms to reduce vibrations. 

[jean-michel6]

12 minutes ago, flkin said:

 

Big, big difference when components are placed on vibration managed platforms. Years ago when I placed my AR CD-7 and BAT VK-5i pre-amp on an Symposium Isis platform and replaced the existing footers with Symposium solids couplers and Rollerblocks, the change in sound was nothing short of a major system upgrade. Bigger soundstage, more solid presence, clarity of sound. A sceptical friend that helped me assemble the rack was gobsmacked by the change. 

 

Vibration management is so important that I was contemplating atomic microscope active platforms to reduce vibrations. 

Fully agree with you !

The three evil to fight for netter music in our crazy digital systems are : vibration , quality of PSU and related noise , less jitter

[flkin]

2 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

Fully agree with you !

The three evil to fight for netter music in our crazy digital systems are : vibration , quality of PSU and related noise , less jitter

 

Please add cables too! Don't know why but they do make a huge difference, sometimes more than the component itself 

[sandyk]

8 minutes ago, flkin said:

 

Please add cables too! Don't know why but they do make a huge difference, sometimes more than the component itself 

 

 Cables can sometimes be quite thick and heavy, and unless they are supported along their length they can couple vibration into the device.