A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[lateboomer]

I tried to reuse again the usb3.0 to ethernet adapter at USB 3.0 port of my music pc laptop but it can only accept the adapter with additional USB multi port adapter. Anyway, to enable 2 way bridging has to turn on adapter router side promiscuous mode. And unfortunately the sound was heavily stuttered and was no go. So the best solution is to get a new USB ethernet adapter suggested by Clipper

 

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[lateboomer]

My current network setup is music pc - - > dlink ac router - - > fmc fiber optic - - > Naa streamer. All are hard wired ethernet. But I see a lot guys here have used a switch between router and a streamer. Could anyone enlighten me why we need a switch there instead of using a router? Of course my router is router switch combo with WiFi feature, is is dlink dir850l ac router

 

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[romaz]

My current network setup is music pc - - > dlink ac router - - > fmc fiber optic - - > Naa streamer. All are hard wired ethernet. But I see a lot guys here have used a switch between router and a streamer. Could anyone enlighten me why we need a switch there instead of using a router? Of course my router is router switch combo with WiFi feature, is is dlink dir850l ac router

 

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

Some routers have limited number of LAN ports and so a switch with more ports is necessary. Some don't have direct access to their routers and must use some sort of switch as a go between. There are any number of reasons but whether I had my switch between my music server and router or not, it didn't really seem to matter as far as SQ. What seemed to make a difference, however, was how far away my router was from my music server. When I brought my router directly into my listening room and only 2 meters from my music server, I found I had fewer dropouts with DSD256 playback. SQ, however, didn't change.

[tboooe]

Today I was trying to play some DSD file converted to PCM via HQP. All indicators is that everything is working fine. Roon and HQP show the track time progressing. I can see in task manager everything looks normal However, I get no sound. PCM files work fine. If I connect my NAA PC back into the switch, I get sound.

 

The only odd thing I noticed was my cpu utilization. Usually when I am converting from DSD to PCM the cpu is at 10%. But with the bridge the cpu goes up to around 60%.

 

Can anyone else who is using this bridge method and uses HQP with an NAA pls try playing DSD files either directly or by converting to PCM?

[clipper]

Today I was trying to play some DSD file converted to PCM via HQP. All indicators is that everything is working fine. Roon and HQP show the track time progressing. I can see in task manager everything looks normal However, I get no sound. PCM files work fine. If I connect my NAA PC back into the switch, I get sound.

 

The only odd thing I noticed was my cpu utilization. Usually when I am converting from DSD to PCM the cpu is at 10%. But with the bridge the cpu goes up to around 60%.

 

Can anyone else who is using this bridge method and uses HQP with an NAA pls try playing DSD files either directly or by converting to PCM?

 

My CPU hovers between 10% and 13% with HQP converting DSD64 to PCM 176,400.

 

This is on an i7-4790 machine, slightly underclocked. With Ethernet adapters bridged...

[tboooe]

My CPU hovers between 10% and 13% with HQP converting DSD64 to PCM 176,400.

 

This is on an i7-4790 machine, slightly underclocked. With Ethernet adapters bridged...

 

Thank you...so no issues playing DSD >> PCM with the bridge?

[austinpop]

The Anker USB adapter @clipper recommended just arrived, so I tried it instead of the AmazonBasics adapter.

 

The good news - I got it working. But, it's not due to the Anker. And - still not really a workable option. Read below.

 

My previous experiments resulted in a functional bridge, using W10 Enterprise, where my Aries Mini could still pull UPnP/DLNA content from MinimServer running on my NAS. But I couldn't get my W10 bridge to ping my NAS, nor could I get it to see the NAS as an SMB share.

 

Today, I retraced my steps, and got to the same point with the Anker. But then I got further:

• Tried a different static IP address for my bridge. Voila. Now I can ping the NAS and vice versa. No idea why the old address I was using did not work. Probably some stale ARP table somewhere. Whatever.
  
• Discovered that to get file shares to show up on the bridged machine, I had to turn on promiscuous mode after all.
  

 

So that was good. I was then able to get MinimServer running on the W10 bridge to scan and index my music from the NAS file share.

 

BUT - end result, when I tried to play music from the W10 instance of MinimServer, major buffering delays. For some reason, this path was molasses-slow. Playback from the NAS instance of MinimServer was rock solid as before.

 

I am equally comfortable with Mac and Windows, so am really OS-agnostic. But I have to say - this may be one case where using a Mac may be the answer, based on the anecdotal problems people are having with Windows.

[clipper]

Thank you...so no issues playing DSD >> PCM with the bridge?

 

No issues at all. In fact my main DAC doesn't even do DSD, so all my DSD stuff gets converted to PCM by HQP.

[austinpop]

One interesting finding to report, though.

 

I previously said that in my system, once I had FMCs (with LPS-1) in the path, the SQ was about the same with switched and bridged.

 

Today, I did find one bridged case that was slightly better. Once I had the bridge configured, I alternated connecting the router to the PCI (Realtek) vs. USB (Anker, also Realtek). This is where it got interesting.

 

The SQ was noticeably better when the USB adapter was connected to the endpoint, and the PCI adapter to the router. Swapping these around resulted in a slight SQ loss.

[tboooe]

No issues at all. In fact my main DAC doesn't even do DSD, so all my DSD stuff gets converted to PCM by HQP.

Crisis averted...though I am not sure that I did. I unplugged my fiber cable from the bridge and plugged it into my switch. I did this process 2 times and now I am able to play DSD >> PCM in bridge mode.

 

The odd thing was when I getting now sound there was no outward signs of a problem. Oh well.

[tboooe]

I am equally comfortable with Mac and Windows, so am really OS-agnostic. But I have to say - this may be one case where using a Mac may be the answer, based on the anecdotal problems people are having with Windows.

 

At least for me, using Server 2012 R2, getting this to work as embarrassingly simple, especially given how much trouble people have been having using other windows variants.

 

Here is one tip that worked well for me...before creating the bridge, I assigned a static ip address to the port attached to my network. When I created the bridge I let it automatically get its IP address. Even after multiple restarts, the bridge always used the fixed IP address of the unbridged port. When I did try to assign a fixed IP to the bridge, I had issues with Roon remote and general network responsiveness.

 

That being said, I didnt try the USB to ethernet adapter. I have two of them here so I will give it a try.

[Andromedasuite]

BSOD with microrendu connected directly to server

Gents,

I'm newbie here but thought would share my experience with this new solution. I tried it with my Win10 system on Hdplex fanless PC and Microrendu. I don't have the latest MOBO (Gigabyte H77N) but it does have two LAN ports. The setup of the bridge was easy and the direct connection from the Rendu to my server sounded really promising, ...unfortunately after about 20 minutes of music play I got BSOD with error "driver_irql_not_less_or_equal", bridge.sys.

I figured out that disabled adapter on my machine (TAP-win32 adapter v9) uses bridge.sys driver and as I came across many negative comments online about this adapter I decided to uninstall it. I checked the drivers for my standard adapters (both are Realtek PCIe GBE Contoller but the system confirmed they were up to date). When I restarted the machine it got even worse as BSOD appeared immediately after creating the bridge. When I reconnected microrendu to my router the problem disappeared.

Do you guys have any idea how to fix this BSOD? I realize that to get to the bottom of it, might require a lot of investigation... In this case I'm probably going to sit down, relax and enjoy the music using microrendu the regular way :-)

 

[tboooe]

BSOD with microrendu connected directly to server

Gents,

I'm newbie here but thought would share my experience with this new solution. I tried it with my Win10 system on Hdplex fanless PC and Microrendu. I don't have the latest MOBO (Gigabyte H77N) but it does have two LAN ports. The setup of the bridge was easy and the direct connection from the Rendu to my server sounded really promising, ...unfortunately after about 20 minutes of music play I got BSOD with error "driver_irql_not_less_or_equal", bridge.sys.

I figured out that disabled adapter on my machine (TAP-win32 adapter v9) uses bridge.sys driver and as I came across many negative comments online about this adapter I decided to uninstall it. I checked the drivers for my standard adapters (both are Realtek PCIe GBE Contoller but the system confirmed they were up to date). When I restarted the machine it got even worse as BSOD appeared immediately after creating the bridge. When I reconnected microrendu to my router the problem disappeared.

Do you guys have any idea how to fix this BSOD? I realize that to get to the bottom of it, might require a lot of investigation... In this case I'm probably going to sit down, relax and enjoy the music using microrendu the regular way :-)

 

Ahhhh...the dreaded BSOD! Question..What do you mean you disabled an adapter? Your Mobo has 2 LAN ports right? Why the need to disable anything?

[Andromedasuite]

To clarify I've always used Realtek adapters on these LAN ports. This 3rd 'TAP-win32 adapter' was basically available in my adapater settings ... but it was always set as 'disabled' and never used. Interestingly, it contained bridge.sys drive appearing in BSOD. Hence I decided to uninstall it. Does it make sense?

[austinpop]

Here is one tip that worked well for me...before creating the bridge, I assigned a static ip address to the port attached to my network. When I created the bridge I let it automatically get its IP address. Even after multiple restarts, the bridge always used the fixed IP address of the unbridged port. When I did try to assign a fixed IP to the bridge, I had issues with Roon remote and general network responsiveness.

 

I tried that. But this is the strange thing - my experience was different.

 

In my case, the bridge I create refuses to get an address from the DHCP server, or inherit it from the unbridged adapter. It only works when I assign the bridge the static address.

 

Maybe it's the difference between W10 and W2012Server. Maybe it's because of the vagaries of specific Ethernet adapters or chipsets.

 

It just seems like Mac users are not having these problems.

[tboooe]

Maybe it's because of the vagaries of specific Ethernet adapters or chipsets.

 

It just seems like Mac users are not having these problems.

Good point there. I am by no means a networking guru so I went the safe route with an intel x520 NIC and made sure it had a driver available for Server R2. Not sure if it matters (it shouldnt) but the pcie nic I bought had 2 ports so I only bridged those two. I didnt try to bridge ports from different physical adapters.

[clipper]

BSOD with microrendu connected directly to server

Gents,

I'm newbie here but thought would share my experience with this new solution. I tried it with my Win10 system on Hdplex fanless PC and Microrendu. I don't have the latest MOBO (Gigabyte H77N) but it does have two LAN ports. The setup of the bridge was easy and the direct connection from the Rendu to my server sounded really promising, ...unfortunately after about 20 minutes of music play I got BSOD with error "driver_irql_not_less_or_equal", bridge.sys.

I figured out that disabled adapter on my machine (TAP-win32 adapter v9) uses bridge.sys driver and as I came across many negative comments online about this adapter I decided to uninstall it. I checked the drivers for my standard adapters (both are Realtek PCIe GBE Contoller but the system confirmed they were up to date). When I restarted the machine it got even worse as BSOD appeared immediately after creating the bridge. When I reconnected microrendu to my router the problem disappeared.

Do you guys have any idea how to fix this BSOD? I realize that to get to the bottom of it, might require a lot of investigation... In this case I'm probably going to sit down, relax and enjoy the music using microrendu the regular way :-)

 

 

Maybe try to figure out what software installed the TAP adapter in the first place, and then uninstall that software.

 

I googled it. Could be something like VPN software or Comodo security software...

[jaspal kallar]

I tried the bridging today on my iMac (which normally resides in another room).

I bought an external usb-to-ethernet adapter (my iMac is old and so does not have thunderbolt). The bridging was easy and it worked with my Sotm sms-200 first time with any problems.

My system is very old compared to others but I still heard a considerable difference.

I can’t believe the clarity I’m getting in voices, the air around instruments, much more relaxed when listening to busy passages of music, wider and deeper soundstage where everything seems more integrated as opposed to before being disjointed. I feel the “tweak” (if you could put it that way) is on par with when I got my SOTM sms-200, it improved the sound that much.

I’ve put the iMac back in its’s original place, so I will see what the sound is like without the direct connection in the coming days.

I recently ripped all my CD’s using XLD to my iMac.

A couple of weeks ago I received my SOTM sms-200, a Curious usb cable (20cm) and a Singxer F1 usb-to-spdif converter to go with my dac (which doesn’t have a usb input). All this is an interim solution whilst I consider newer dac (and amps). So no more spinning cd’s for me.

My system is now normally configured:

iMac (Roon, wireless) —> Router —> cat 6 —> Sotm sms-200 (standard PSU) —> Curious usb (20cm) cable —> Singxer F1 —> Trends Audio TA 10.1 integrated amp —> Kef 103/4

I’ve ordered a UltraCap LPS-1 PSU for sms-200 (hopefully arrives by mid February).

Since the direct connection was so good (although I will reserve judgement until I’ve heard without it and when I get the UltraCap LPS-1) I may need to look at a small computer e.g. like a SonicTransporter, instead of going for another dac first.

Of course YMMV but the point I’m trying to get across is that getting a SMS-200 (or similar) with a cheapish but good usb-to-spdif converter like the F1 and direct connection can still get a lot more out of the current system (dac), even if it is (like mine) of really modest quality.

Many thanks to all that have contributed to this thread so far and especially to "romaz" for bringing our attention to the direct connection.

[jaspal kallar]

iMac (Roon, wireless) —> Router —> cat 6 —> Sotm sms-200 (standard PSU) —> Curious usb (20cm) cable —> Singxer F1 —> Trends Audio TA 10.1 integrated amp —> Kef 103/4

Opps, I missed the my dac in the chain which should look like :

 

iMac (Roon, wireless) —> Router —> cat 6 —> Sotm sms-200 (standard PSU) —> Curious usb (20cm) cable —> Singxer F1 —> Audiolab 8000 Dac --> Trends Audio TA 10.1 integrated amp —> Kef 103/4

[hurka]

Bridge mode connected,but sound get dark.Before opened,brighter.Interesting.....

[Evo1668]

Further update.....after hearing the improvements brought by this relatively simple tweak....( ok some vehemently disagree with simple....) Jesus at Sonure finally got the UPNP bridge software (1.06 beta) working a treat with my Linn Klimax DS....thanks so much Jesus.

the DS I haven't really used for nearly two years now, but I can't switch the thing off now, more like I don't want to....

i was curious if the Linn's Ethernet connection could be bridged too? I got hold of a Pluggable USB 3.0 to Ethernet connector, plugged it into my HQPlayer server alongside the mRendu. Added the new connector into the bridge on Win10. Worked first time no rebooting, but the music.....I think the DS is firmly staying in the chain.....

[tboooe]

Further update.....after hearing the improvements brought by this relatively simple tweak....( ok some vehemently disagree with simple....) Jesus at Sonure finally got the UPNP bridge software (1.06 beta) working a treat with my Linn Klimax DS....thanks so much Jesus.

the DS I haven't really used for nearly two years now, but I can't switch the thing off now, more like I don't want to....

i was curious if the Linn's Ethernet connection could be bridged too? I got hold of a Pluggable USB 3.0 to Ethernet connector, plugged it into my HQPlayer server alongside the mRendu. Added the new connector into the bridge on Win10. Worked first time no rebooting, but the music.....I think the DS is firmly staying in the chain.....

Awesome! So which do you prefer, Linn or microrendu? I think based on your last sentence you prefer the Linn?

[Evo1668]

Awesome! So which do you prefer, Linn or microrendu? I think based on your last sentence you prefer the Linn?

 

I have never heard the Linn so articulate.....multiple harmonies portrayed with absolute ease throughout the tune. Put it this way listening to the Linn set up this method, its like the first time you listen to a really good headamp setup through your system. The tune reveals gems hidden away in a mix you just never appreciated before.

The microrendu is firmly staying put, but the Linn DS is definitely back now. The Linn has a sense of pace and rhythm that just draws you deeper in. It has a darker sound to my usual USB/spdif converter, DAC setup, and really impresses with sheer articulation of the lower registers that is hard to beat.

[Peter_T]

After my success with my (3-way) bridge to play under W2012R2-minimal-server mode optimized by AO (see my earlier post), I tried to go one step further and go to core mode.

 

I got it to work, partially that is : with my USB-LAN adapter (Startech USB31000DNS) connected to my router and the Sotm200 connected to my computer's onboard Intel NIC, I could play (Jriver DLNA server) only local tracks : no connection possible to my NAS. But it sounded great! Without stuttering. If I reversed the cables, the PC could see the NAS, but not the Sotm200, so I couldn't play anything.

 

The above result , however, was not reached with my 3-way bridge, but with a "normal" 2-way bridge between the on board NIC and the LAN adapter. So it is possible to get fluent sound without using my Wifi-dongle. But only in W2012R2 core mode?

 

My conclusion : the Startech LAN adapter in the (2-way) bridge leads to stuttering unless used in W2012R2-core-mode, but then it apparently refuses to connect to my router & NAS. Maybe another adapter would work better? Or a PCIe USB card?

 

I borrowed a PCIe-Intel-NIC-card to replace the USB-LAN adapter : exactly the same result as above. I sent an email to AO-Phil, maybe he knows a way how to make a bridge work properly in W2012R2-core mode. Setting forcecompatmode=enabled before going to core mode did not help

[tboooe]

I borrowed a PCIe-Intel-NIC-card to replace the USB-LAN adapter : exactly the same result as above. I sent an email to AO-Phil, maybe he knows a way how to make a bridge work properly in W2012R2-core mode. Setting forcecompatmode=enabled before going to core mode did not help

@Peter_T, are you using Service Tool at all to reset things before going to Core mode from either GUI or Minimal Server mode?