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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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17 minutes ago, limniscate said:

@Johnseye

 

SOtM found, to their surprise, that the tXUSBExp sounds even better with a tX-USB Ultra after it.

 

One of those things where there's little info available and I'll probably have to listen for myself.  I also use an ISO Regen, which I'm sure SOtM hasn't tried.  So, with an IR in the chain is the tx-USBultra necessary?  One other thought about my option A vs B is that if I ever want to use the txUSBultra outside of this scenario, meaning a later date with other hardware as just a reclock/filter or if I want to resell it, it would be easier.  The sCLK-EX board as a stand alone needs to be paired up with something and has little value as a stand alone device.

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11 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

One of those things where there's little info available and I'll probably have to listen for myself.  I also use an ISO Regen, which I'm sure SOtM hasn't tried.  So, with an IR in the chain is the tx-USBultra necessary?  One other thought about my option A vs B is that if I ever want to use the txUSBultra outside of this scenario, meaning a later date with other hardware as just a reclock/filter or if I want to resell it, it would be easier.  The sCLK-EX board as a stand alone needs to be paired up with something and has little value as a stand alone device.

Roy took out the ISO Regen from his chain.  The general consensus is that the tX-USB Ultra sounds better than the ISO Regen.

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5 minutes ago, thyname said:

 

 

What are those?

 

i just got the sms-200 Ultra with clock connector. But there is no clock yet from SOtM, no?

 

it is being powered by lps-1

 

what can I add to improve it even further?

From left to right: sPS-500, sMS-200 (ultra-fied :D), tx-USBultra.

No clock yet, but the sound is just amazing.

I've recently auditioned the iSO-CAT6 and would heartily recommend that and I am waiting for the new SOtM USB cable to be released in order to  decide between either that or the dCBL-CAT7.

Then there's the up-coming SOtM switch early next year...

All the above are worth a try -me thinks-  to further improve our set-ups.

Talk about these guys keeping us busy! :)

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This is my current mini setup. And you can look into adding the audiograde router for even greater improvements.

E3988D6B-71FB-4BF2-8E88-1B4A70284009.jpeg

DigitalDac: Chord DAVE, Amp: MC275 Mono, Preamp: FirstSound, Source: Esoteric K01X, Cable: TaraLab GME interconnect,
CASSOtM Trifecta Mod 75ohm MCI, TheLinearSolution TCXO Router

Analog: SME 20/2, SME V, Skala, Esoteric C03 Phono

 
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4 hours ago, Johnseye said:

I've been testing out this unmodified Jetway board and it is clearly superior to the ASUS board I had been using.

That's great!  Which Asus motherboard were you using previously?

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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57 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

So, with an IR in the chain is the tx-USBultra necessary?

Yes, the tx-usbultra is a step up compare to IR.

DigitalDac: Chord DAVE, Amp: MC275 Mono, Preamp: FirstSound, Source: Esoteric K01X, Cable: TaraLab GME interconnect,
CASSOtM Trifecta Mod 75ohm MCI, TheLinearSolution TCXO Router

Analog: SME 20/2, SME V, Skala, Esoteric C03 Phono

 
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5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

I think "probably" should be changed to "hopefully".  Right now the FS and GS 105 series exhibit very similar characteristics.  Running a managed switch would be very nice for the reasons you pointed out.  Too bad John can't test this one.  We're left with earballing (eyeballing) it without true measurements.

 

 

I've been testing out this unmodified Jetway board and it is clearly superior to the ASUS board I had been using.  I still need to run Windows 2016 in core mode as test, but so far this board adds depth and air to the sound which was not there before.  I like it much more.  The only caveat is that I put a sheet of 3M EMI/RF absorber under the board when I installed it.  This could be the reason for the change and I won't know until I put the ASUS board back.

 

I had been holding back from shipping my hardware to SOtM until I knew about this switch.  I will test it with an LPS-1, but even if it doesn't work with it, I'd modify it depending on the option I choose.  I may not even use a switch in my upcoming modification.  What do you think about these options?  I've been kicking around this dilemma for some time.

 

Option A.  I asked May if the same tap could be used for both the txUSBultra and txUSBexp.  It can not.  Apparently their frequency and voltages are different.

 

txUSBultra (3 available taps)

txUSBexp (tap 1)

motherboard system clock (tap 2), ethernet NICs (tap 3)

 

Option B.

 

sCLK-EX (4 available taps)

txUSBexp (tap 1)

motherboard system clock (tap 2), ethernet NICs (tap 3)

switch (tap 4)

 

With option A I have redundant USB reclocker/filters and no modified switch.  My thought was to bridge the server's NICs and run my NAS into one NIC, so only Tidal streaming would go through the switch.  All locally stored music on my NAS would run through the modified motherboard ethernet NIC.  I will not be able to use ROCK with this config unless I use an unmodified switch because ROCK doesn't support bridged mode.  I have some open questions in my mind about ROCK and I don't like limiting myself in case I want to use it one day.

 

With option B I don't get the tx-USBultra.  I don't know what chaining an sCLK-EX modified txUSBexp and a txUSBultra would do.  I would get the modified switch but would that have a bigger impact than a txUBSultra if I use it?

 

Maybe the switch runs at the same frequency and voltage as the motherboard NICs.  I have to check with May on that.  As of now a sacrifice needs to be made somewhere.

 

What would you choose?

 

I don't know.

 

To my knowledge, the only person who has experimented extensively with multiple direct-USB configs is @romaz. The only thing I can recommend is to go revisit his "final" configurations in the index, and glean what you can.

 

Anything I say or recommend would be speculative.

 

At some point, it would be incredible to bring together multiple configurations - both direct and endpoint based - to do comparative listening tests. I've no idea how to make that happen!

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57 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

 

I would swap the lps1 with an sps500 synergystically  I found it a better match.

 

I have read quite the opposite from other people, including the guy who sold me the sms-200 Ultra.

 

I guess the only way to try is to buy the sps-500, and test one vs the other

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40 minutes ago, thyname said:

 

I have read quite the opposite from other people, including the guy who sold me the sms-200 Ultra.

 

I guess the only way to try is to buy the sps-500, and test one vs the other

 

In my system, I prefer the sps-500 with an upgraded ac cable to the LPS-1 for powering my microRendu.  I haven't tried it on any other devices in my chain such as the tX-USBultra .  I have ordered a silver DC cable made from VH Audio Pulsar Ag silver wire to use with the sPS-500.   I expect it to provide a nice bump in sound quality.

 

(Looking forward to replacing the microRendu with an sMS-200Ultra with silver wiring and eABS-200 by the end of next week.) 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

That board is interesting.  It's built like a traditional ATX board but has a 12-19V DC input.  Maybe Asus didn't do such a good job marrying those two things.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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12 minutes ago, rickca said:

That board is interesting.  It's built like a traditional ATX board but has a 12-19V DC input.  Maybe Asus didn't do such a good job marrying those two things.

My problem with the DC input boards is that you lose control over the quality of the DC to DC power supply as it's embedded in the board. If you use standard ATX boards there are a wide range of choices that are eliminated here.

 

I've have used four different DC to DC solutions. My experience is that a titanium atx power supply sounds best.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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I'm wondering if there are further improvements to be wrought from a (headless) Mac Mini (Core i7 @ 2.3GHz, 16GB RAM and 500GB SSD) with an Uptone JS-2 + MMK, Cad script optimized (Sierra) running off an SD Card. It has been a pleasant addition to my system, with unexpected levels of SQ improvement, as compared with my Macbook Pro. Is there something further I can do? I'm on the fence regarding a custom PC build, with all the handy information provided by the adventurous and yet generous members of this thread. 

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6 hours ago, lmitche said:

My problem with the DC input boards is that you lose control over the quality of the DC to DC power supply as it's embedded in the board. If you use standard ATX boards there are a wide range of choices that are eliminated here.

That is correct, and that doesn’t matter how good your 12 or 19v LPS are, you still limited and filter by the mobo dc section.

DigitalDac: Chord DAVE, Amp: MC275 Mono, Preamp: FirstSound, Source: Esoteric K01X, Cable: TaraLab GME interconnect,
CASSOtM Trifecta Mod 75ohm MCI, TheLinearSolution TCXO Router

Analog: SME 20/2, SME V, Skala, Esoteric C03 Phono

 
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6 hours ago, lmitche said:

My problem with the DC input boards is that you lose control over the quality of the DC to DC power supply as it's embedded in the board. If you use standard ATX boards there are a wide range of choices that are eliminated here.

 

I've have used four different DC to DC solutions here. In the end a high end atx power supply sounds best.

 

The number of DC in boards available are much more limited.  Right now I don't know what improved the SQ.  It could have been the 3M sheet, it could be the Celeron proc, it could have been the RAM, but I doubt it.  It could also have been the components (caps) of the board.

 

Testing different ATX against DC boards is easy enough.  I've been using ATX boards with various non linear PSUs for years until this past year.  None of them impacted the SQ as much as when I started using the Hynes SR7.

 

Larry, I believe you're upsampling to DSD512, correct me if I'm wrong.  If you take that factor away does 48KHz PCM sound better in a high power PSU?  Also, what exactly qualifies a "high end" ATX PSU and why?  The Seasonic Prime?

 

 

10 minutes ago, ismewor said:

That is correct, and that doesn’t matter how good your 12 or 19v LPS are, you still limited and filter by the mobo dc section.

 

Well, it actually does matter how good your LPSU is.  The power you feed that DC input of the board will definitely impact the sound quality. 

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3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT should probably widen the choice of MB. 

 

Here some examples:

http://atechfabrication.com/MC-2500_system_order_form.htm

 

(Even with Sotm PCI card)

 

 

 

HDPlex makes a better quality version of the ATX adapter.  It's going to degrade the SQ more than a direct DC connection, but it does open things up to using ATX boards.

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