A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[auricgoldfinger]

I finally installed my pre-owned sPS-500 (stock copper cable) today and did some A/B testing with the LPS-1 and JS-2 (Uptone star-quad copper cable).  I was using them to power my microRendu.  All 3 power supplies are plugged into my BPT BP-3.5 Signature Plus balanced power transformer.  I definitely preferred the LPS-1 over the JS-2.  Initially, I found the LPS-1 and sPS-500 to be close, with perhaps a slight edge to the LPS-1.  I felt that more listening was needed to form a definitive opinion.

 

Later, I decided to replace the stock sPS-500 A/C cable with a Pangea 14SE MKII Signature power cable that I had lying around.  In this scenario, the sPS-500 was the clear winner.  I suspect the gap will be even greater once my star-quad Canare 4S6 cable arrives since the sPS-500 stock cable is rather unimpressive.  Given its versatility, I think the sPS-500 is pretty hard to beat on a price-to-performance basis.  You just need to spend a little extra on a better A/C cable.

[rickca]

54 minutes ago, rickca said:

I have an extension of the bridged NIC idea that launched this thread.

My solution is just using USB3 bus power for the iGalvanic3.0 and its GI USB NIC.  Will it get better with cleaner power?  We do have the option of using iFi's bundled iDefender with either an LPS-1 or a 5V power bank.

 

My question to @JohnSwenson is this ... you said leakage currents can go right through Ethernet transceivers.  Would the iGalvanic3.0 stop this on its own, or do we need the bus powered by iDefender/LPS-1?

 

As an alternative, we could introduce a switch powered by an LPS-1 or 5V power bank between the USB3 ethernet NIC and the microRendu.  This would be especially helpful if it also had a good clock.

 

So I'm trying to extend this thread's original idea with John's comments in this post

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/35129-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-the-microrendu-ultrarendu/?do=findComment&comment=713210

 

You can use this same approach to galvanically isolate your music files.  Just substitute an external SATA SSD like a Samsung T5 or a bus-powered USB3 hard drive enclosure (with 2.5" drives) for the USB3 ethernet adapter.  I haven't tried this yet.  I'm a bit concerned whether sufficient current will get through the iGalvanic3.0 to satisfy these bus-powered devices.

 

Many thanks to @lmitche for coming up with these creative ideas with his Adnaco S3B solution.  I have adapted them to accommodate a network end-point.

[JohnSwenson]

16 minutes ago, rickca said:

My solution is just using USB3 bus power for the iGalvanic3.0 and its GI USB NIC.  Will it get better with cleaner power?  We do have the option of using iFi's bundled iDefender with either an LPS-1 or a 5V power bank.

 

My question to @JohnSwenson is this ... you said leakage currents can go right through Ethernet transceivers.  Would the iGalvanic3.0 stop this on its own, or do we need the bus powered by iDefender/LPS-1?

 

As an alternative, we could introduce a switch powered by an LPS-1 or 5V power bank between the USB3 ethernet NIC and the microRendu.  This would be especially helpful if it also had a good clock.

 

So I'm trying to extend this thread's original idea with John's comments in this post

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/35129-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-the-microrendu-ultrarendu/?do=findComment&comment=713210

 

You can use this same approach to galvanically isolate your music files.  Just substitute an external SATA SSD like a Samsung T5 or a bus-powered USB3 hard drive enclosure (with 2.5" drives) for the USB3 ethernet adapter.  I haven't tried this yet.  I'm a bit concerned whether sufficient current will get through the iGalvanic3.0 to satisfy these bus-powered devices.

 

Many thanks to @lmitche for coming up with these creative ideas with his Adnaco S3B solution.  I hope my adaptation hasn't totally messed them up.

Most SMPS have a fairly large amount of high frequency leakage current that is very high in frequency, at very high impedance. An Ethernet transformer has to pass high frequencies (that's what it DOES), the attenuation of lower frequencies is not a brick wall, it increases as the frequency goes down. Thus the higher frequencies of the leakage current will not be attenuated very much and the lower frequencies will be attenuated a fair amount.

 

I have no idea how this works with an iGalvanic. I don't have one to test.

 

The main takeaway is that linear supplies always have much lower high frequency leakage than SMPS, so when in doubt, use a linear supply and you will almost always be better off than trying to clean up the mess from an SMPS. The qulity of regulator etc has NOTHING to do with the leakage, so even a cheap one will have much lower leakage than an SMPS.

 

I have a Baaske on order so maybe late this week I can do some tests and see what it does.

 

John S.

[rickca]

5 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

The main takeaway is that linear supplies always have much lower high frequency leakage than SMPS, so when in doubt, use a linear supply and you will almost always be better off than trying to clean up the mess from an SMPS.

Is a power bank (battery) better than using an SMPS?  

[zoltan]

9 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 All 3 power supplies are plugged into my BPT BP-3.5 Signature Plus balanced power transformer.  I definitely preferred the LPS-1 over the JS-2.  Initially, I found the LPS-1 and sPS-500 to be close, with perhaps a slight edge to the LPS-1. 

4

Given standard mathematical operations, we can conclude that SPS--500 is clearly better than JS-2 in this situation? 
I'm asking because I have a JS-2 powering an SMS-200 ultra and thinking of buying the SPS-500. How would you describe the differences between JS-2 and SPS-500? 

[auricgoldfinger]

 

6 hours ago, zoltan said:

Given standard mathematical operations, we can conclude that SPS--500 is clearly better than JS-2 in this situation? 
I'm asking because I have a JS-2 powering an SMS-200 ultra and thinking of buying the SPS-500. How would you describe the differences between JS-2 and SPS-500? 

 

Both the LPS-1 and sPS-500 are more transparent and detailed with better separation relative to the JS-2.  They improved the macro- and micro-dynamics of the microRendu.  With the stock sPS-500 A/C power cable, the two supplies are comparable, but the LPS-1 does seem to have a slight edge.  Given the cost differential, if I only wanted to power a single 3.3V, 5V, or 7V device, the LPS-1 is possibly the better choice.  (In my case, I was fortunate to buy a 1-month old sPS-500 for the price of a new LPS-1.)

 

The Pangea A/C power cable greatly enhances soundstage dimensionality and imparts a sense of realism that makes the LPS-1 sound lean in comparison.  Please note that this particular Pangea cable is relatively inexpensive and would never be confused with a reference power cable.

 

I am not the first person to have noticed the importance of the A/C power cable: 

 

On 8/13/2017 at 9:09 AM, phusis said:

Perhaps more than the significance of the DC-cable is the importance of the power cable used with the SOtM sPS-500. A nicely made DIY power cable will do small wonders instead of the run-of-the-mill power cable that follows the sPS-500 - as I've found out in my own setup.

 

 

[beautiful music]

13 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

 

Both the LPS-1 and sPS-500 are more transparent and detailed with better separation relative to the JS-2.  They improved the macro- and micro-dynamics of the microRendu.  With the stock sPS-500 A/C power cable, the two supplies are comparable, but the LPS-1 does seem to have a slight edge.  Given the cost differential, if I only wanted to power a single 3.3V, 5V, or 7V device, the LPS-1 is possibly the better choice.  (In my case, I was fortunate to buy a 1-month old sPS-500 for the price of a new LPS-1.)

 

The Pangea A/C power cable greatly enhances soundstage dimensionality and imparts a sense of realism that makes the LPS-1 sound lean in comparison.  Please note that this particular Pangea cable is relatively inexpensive and would never be confused with a reference power cable.

 

I am not the first person to have noticed the importance of the A/C power cable: 

 

 

 

Did you mean this AC power cable?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-AC-14-Powercord-Meter/dp/B0030ERI1W

[auricgoldfinger]

4 minutes ago, sadekkhalifa said:

Did you mean this AC power cable?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Pangea-Audio-AC-14-Powercord-Meter/dp/B0030ERI1W

 

This one: 

 

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14S2&opt=3633

 

 

[zoltan]

#auricgoldfinger, thank you for your reply. I will probably buy a SPS-500. No chance to find used at this stage I guess, so I will have to go for a new one.

I have read good things about the Pangea AC cord. Have you tried any other aftermarket AC cord on the SPS?

[ElviaCaprice]

You want your DC cable as short as possible.  A home made Canare 4S6 works great for the LPS-1.  The best sound was with an adapter.  But that often isn't physically possible when using adapters for the USB connection. 

[auricgoldfinger]

15 minutes ago, zoltan said:

#auricgoldfinger, thank you for your reply. I will probably buy a SPS-500. No chance to find used at this stage I guess, so I will have to go for a new one.

I have read good things about the Pangea AC cord. Have you tried any other aftermarket AC cord on the SPS?

 

I also have a Pangea AC-9SE, but I haven't tried it yet.  I'll post impressions once I've had a chance to compare them.

 

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC9S2

[JJ Braham]

2 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

 

Both the LPS-1 and sPS-500 are more transparent and detailed with better separation relative to the JS-2.  They improved the macro- and micro-dynamics of the microRendu.  With the stock sPS-500 A/C power cable, the two supplies are comparable, but the LPS-1 does seem to have a slight edge.  Given the cost differential, if I only wanted to power a single 3.3V, 5V, or 7V device, the LPS-1 is possibly the better choice.  (In my case, I was fortunate to buy a 1-month old sPS-500 for the price of a new LPS-1.)

 

The Pangea A/C power cable greatly enhances soundstage dimensionality and imparts a sense of realism that makes the LPS-1 sound lean in comparison.  Please note that this particular Pangea cable is relatively inexpensive and would never be confused with a reference power cable.

 

 

 

 

Did you try the Pangea power cable with the JS-2?

 

My JS-2 improved a lot when I changed the power cord to a Nordost Valhalla cable. Would be interesting to see if it helps your JS-2 compared to the sps-500.

[auricgoldfinger]

55 minutes ago, JJ Braham said:

Did you try the Pangea power cable with the JS-2?

 

My JS-2 improved a lot when I changed the power cord to a Nordost Valhalla cable. Would be interesting to see if it helps your JS-2 compared to the sps-500.

 

That's a good question.  I'll try it the next time I'm A/B testing.

[zoltan]

5 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

That's a good question.  I'll try it the next time I'm A/B testing.

Then I'll wait before placing an order for the sps-500

[jamesg11]

Any evaluation of an ultra rendu re this thread's mix of innovation?

[auricgoldfinger]

On 9/4/2017 at 1:50 PM, zoltan said:

Then I'll wait before placing an order for the sps-500

 

I did a quick A/B comparison of the sPS-500 and JS-2 using the Pangea power cable.  To me, the sPS-500 is still the clear winner.  Richer sound, more texture, better micro-dynamics, and sparkle are the thoughts that immediately come to mind.  The JS-2 sounds somewhat flat and less detailed in comparison.

[toetapaudio]

I'm getting good results using a Uptone LPS1 , Sotm DC cable, powered by a MCRU 12v power supply. This is better than the standard ps. This set up feeds a AQVOX audio grade switch with reclocker. Next I will try a Sbooster 12v ps to LPS1, which I think might be even better. I know slightly off topic but I thought you might like to know my findings with ps for LPS1. 

[austinpop]

On 8/26/2017 at 10:40 PM, JohnSwenson said:

Those of you getting 75 ohm BNC cables just make SURE you get a cable with a REAL 75 ohm BNC plug. A LOT of "75 ohm" BNC cables actually have 50 ohm plugs on the 75 ohm cables. I don't really know why this happens, probably the purchasing department notices that 50 ohm plugs cost a lot less than 75 ohm plugs and swaps them without telling the engineers. I have a hard time believing that designers working at cable companies don't know the difference between 50 and 75 ohm plugs.  PHYSICALLY they are interchangeable, you can plug a 50 ohm into a 75 ohm jack so you can't rely on that. A 75 ohm plug usually has much less insulation around the central pin, so you can usually spot them.

 

And this is NOT just audiophile companies, I found quite a few well known cable manufacturers that cater to pro video and audio companies use the wrong connectors as well.

 

I not going to give a list, I don't remember the names, just be sure you get the right ones.

 

John S.

 

Hi John,

 

Just following up on your point about 50 ohm vs 75 ohm - is there a standard, or a specification that one can reference, that applies to both variants? For example, if I have understood this right, 50 ohm cable is supposed to conform to the RG58 specification, and 75 ohm  cable to RG59. Is there a similar designation for 50 vs. 75 ohm BNC plugs?

[Johnseye]

After a 5 month wait my Paul Hynes SR7 is finally built and should ship next week.  Good news for anyone who's placed an order since April.  Once I get it I'll post results.

 

A quick update on my ISO Regen experience.  I received a replacement IR and after initial issues was able to get my DACs to connect with my server with the IR in between.  After further listening I found that the signal would drop, PLL errors get thrown to the DAC and I will get audible static.  I have tried Windows Server 2016, Windows 10 and Roon ROCK OS installs on my server.  I have also tried a second server running ROCK.  I have tried two different DACs, the Audio Alchemy DDP-1 and the Benchmark DAC3.  Same behavior is experienced. It's important to note the behavior is not consistent.  Sometimes things will work from the start and sometimes they won't.  Sometimes it will work for a bit then fail.  I also tried turning off the 5v switch on the USPCB and making a connection with the IR in line.  When I did that the IR stopped working completely.  I waited a bit, then tried it with a different DAC on the other server and it started working again.  I don't know what caused it to stop or start working.  The thought at this point is that there is a grounding issue with how the IR interacts with my DAC.  I'm not the only person having issues with the IR so I know it's not just my system.  Fortunately there are many people who are not having issues.  Perhaps they haven't tested every scenario, such as direct server to DAC connection.  I'd be interested in hearing other's testing experiences.

 

The IR will work without issue when my sMS-200 is behind it.  It did not at first, but for some unknown reason it just started working one day, and it continues to work.  I do need to put more time into this scenario as I've been putting all the time into testing without the sMS-200 in line.  What's odd is that Roon Rock and the sMS-200 both use Fedora Linux.  That leads me to believe it's not an OS or driver issue, although it could still be driver related.

 

I have tried several USB cables in my tests.  Stock USB cables that came with the DAC, two USPCB's, Curious Cable and the Lush.  The Lush on its own between server and DAC or with IR in line does not work with my DAC.  It's not a spec cable and my AA DAC appears to be particular about spec.  Oddly the Lush will work with the AA DAC when the sMS-200 is in line with any scenario.  Whatever the sMS-200 does for both the IR and the Lush is good.

 

As a side note, I've been auditioning several preamps and I will be starting a separate thread to describe my listening experiences with them.  The pre's are: Audio Research LS28, Backert Labs Rhumba 1.2 and Rhumba 1.2 Extreme, Rogue RP-5, Atma-Sphere MP-3 mk 3.3 and the Benchmark DAC3.  What I have heard when listening to these pre's is what I'd describe a macro change.  All the tinkering done with power and USB clocks are minuscule compared to what these pre's can do. 

 

I will likely also be giving the new Anthem integrated a listen tonight as they're about to release a new pre.  It includes a DAC and the Anthem room correction which is interesting.  I have no experience with their products but the room correction and allowance for a better integrated subwoofer into 2 channel listening have appeal.  Hopefully there's a DAC bypass unless by miracle it's amazing on it's own, which I doubt.

http://hometheaterhifi.com/press-releases/anthem-introduces-flagship-stereo-separates-str-preamplifier-str-power-amplifier-purist-heart/

 

[Advieira]

What´s the problem to direct connection SMS200 and Macmini by ethernet port? I mean mac mini connected to internet by wifi and sms200 connected to mac mini by ethernet.

 

Would its way macmini>wifi>sms200 improve audio compared to router>SMS200?

[Always.Learning]

9 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

After a 5 month wait my Paul Hynes SR7 is finally built and should ship next week.  Good news for anyone who's placed an order since April.  Once I get it I'll post results.

 

 

Johnseye--

 

I have been waiting over five months for my Paul Hynes SR5 for my phono stage and just posted about the problems I have had contacting Hynes in the General Forum here. Hynes has not answered a single email since I sent payment on March 29. Have you been able to contact him? What sort of communication did you have with him after you sent funds? Any suggestions for me?

 

Jon in Seattle

[mozes]

10 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

will likely also be giving the new Anthem integrated a listen tonight as they're about to release a new pre.  It includes a DAC and the Anthem room correction which is interesting.  I have no experience with their products but the room correction and allowance for a better integrated subwoofer into 2 channel listening have appeal.  Hopefully there's a DAC bypass unless by miracle it's amazing on it's own, which I doubt.

It's a great brand, I used to have their entry level receiver MRX 310 and it sounded great and rivaled my 2 channel amps. The ARC feature they have is one of the best for integrating subwoofers, I tried it many times. Their new offering of separates deserve listening. On top of that you get superb service and after sale service from Anthem!

[mozes]

2 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

 

Johnseye--

 

I have been waiting over five months for my Paul Hynes SR5 for my phono stage and just posted about the problems I have had contacting Hynes in the General Forum here. Hynes has not answered a single email since I sent payment on March 29. Have you been able to contact him? What sort of communication did you have with him after you sent funds? Any suggestions for me?

 

Jon in Seattle

If a manufacturer doesn't reply to my emails after I sent a payment, then I am not interested in his products even if they are arguably the best!

I like to give my business to people who engage with customers before and after the sale.

[Johnseye]

4 minutes ago, Always.Learning said:

 

Johnseye--

 

I have been waiting over five months for my Paul Hynes SR5 for my phono stage and just posted about the problems I have had contacting Hynes in the General Forum here. Hynes has not answered a single email since I sent payment on March 29. Have you been able to contact him? What sort of communication did you have with him after you sent funds? Any suggestions for me?

 

Jon in Seattle

 

Did you pay him?  All my communication has been by email.  He is often unresponsive for days or weeks but after I follow up he eventually replies.  All I have to say after this, is that the PSU better be worth it.  Incredibly expensive, upfront payment to an individual you don't know and an incredibly long wait.  I knew it would be a long wait going into it, but I thought a month or two.  It's turned into 5.  In no other circumstance would I ever front someone who I don't know thousands of dollars to build me something a few people on the Internet say is good.  Had communication been good that would have made the experience more palatable, but it hasn't been.  Granted, he lives on a sparsely populated island off of Scotland, but they have the Internet.   I'm only being bluntly honest here.

[Always.Learning]

1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

Did you pay him?  All my communication has been by email.  He is often unresponsive for days or weeks but after I follow up he eventually replies.  All I have to say after this, is that the PSU better be worth it.  Incredibly expensive, upfront payment to an individual you don't know and an incredibly long wait.  I knew it would be a long wait going into it, but I thought a month or two.  It's turned into 5.  In no other circumstance would I ever front someone who I don't know thousands of dollars to build me something a few people on the Internet say is good.  Had communication been good that would have made the experience more palatable, but it hasn't been.  Granted, he lives on a sparsely populated island off of Scotland, but they have the Internet.   I'm only being bluntly honest here.

Yes, I paid him $1214 USD on March 29. Despite a half dozen or more attempts to reach him by email since then, I have had zero replies to my emails. No communication whatsoever, despite the fact the before I sent the funds, we exchanged about a dozen emails over a one-week period. I also tried calling him, using the phone number on his out-of-date website, and got a recorded message that the line was no longer working. 

 

I've been using the email [email protected]. Has he replied to you with this email? Can you tell me what date you sent him funds and what date you expect to receive your power supply? 

 

Unhappy in Seattle