A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Johnseye]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Looks like Sonore has stepped up its game with mR 1.4, the UltraRendu, and the Signature Rendu.

 

I also see some push back regarding the clock chain approach some of us have tried here with the sCLK-EX gear, and soon, with reference 10MHz clocks. That's cool, since most of what we're hearing (especially with the reclocked switch) really don't fit any known paradigms.

 

All that said, I plan to stay out of the debates about "which is/should be better" and why. These are pointless discussions for me. I would rather see people do actual listening comparisons.

 

I have no plans to buy either, but would always welcome a loan of either the UR or the SSR from any interested parties who would like to see the comparison.

 

Or - bring your gear to Austin, TX, where we now have 2 of us with Ultra setups.

 

Where did this come from?  I've just been reading about the IR and USB cables in this thread for days.  Has someone brought up the mR/uR somewhere?

[Bamber]

My SU-1 (W4S version) arrived from Singxer on Wednesday so I was finally able to ship the sMS-200ultra, DAC and SU-1 to SOtM three weeks later than planned.

 

http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/Bamber90009/media/DSC58911_zpswxylheng.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

 

While they are away I'm using the family room system to burn-in the REF10 and test various clock cables.  I haven't used the Yaggie for 5 months so have to become accustomed to it again.  It's more practical as my regular system is in a 48U recessed cabinet so swapping cables quickly isn't easy.

 

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q484/Bamber90009/DSC58913_zpse2tnomrr.jpg

 

I've tested three 75Ω cables so far:

• Nordost Valhalla 1M (I already owned this cable)
• Tara Labs RSC Digital Air 0.5M (recommended by Mutec)
• Belden 1694a Canare 0.5M

I can't hear any difference between these cables at this stage but will keep testing.

 

When the REF10 is engaged on the tX-USBultra instruments sound more solid and natural.

 

I can't wait to hear what it does with 4 x CLK-EXs in the chain.

[zoltan]

I'm not sure which forum is the best to ask my question but I found a lot of talk here about power supplies.
My question is basically, are there any specs for a good DC cable? Twisted pair or coaxial? Shielded or not? Copper or silver? Or anything else?

 

I have a Uptone JS-2 PSU with the supplied Belden 9418 which seems like a decent cable but I guess one could do better than a 2 dollar/m cable. Also, I need one that is longer than the one I have now. So I will go DIY. 

 

It seems that the Oyaide plugs are the way to go but any specific recommendation on the cable. Oyaide or something else? I haven't been able to find a DC cable 'shootout' on the internet. Any thoughts are welcome.  

[austinpop]

5 minutes ago, zoltan said:

I'm not sure which forum is the best to ask my question but I found a lot of talk here about power supplies.
My question is basically, are there any specs for a good DC cable? Twisted pair or coaxial? Shielded or not? Copper or silver? Or anything else?

 

I have a Uptone JS-2 PSU with the supplied Belden 9418 which seems like a decent cable but I guess one could do better than a 2 dollar/m cable. Also, I need one that is longer than the one I have now. So I will go DIY. 

 

It seems that the Oyaide plugs are the way to go but any specific recommendation on the cable. Oyaide or something else? I haven't been able to find a DC cable 'shootout' on the internet. Any thoughts are welcome.  

 

Your dreams have come true!

 

 

[zoltan]

7 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Your dreams have come true!

 

 

Great! Thanks!

[Bamber]

My SU-1 (W4S version) arrived from Singxer on Wednesday so I was finally able to ship the sMS-200ultra, DAC and SU-1 to SOtM three weeks later than planned.

 

 

 

While they are away I'm using the family room system to burn-in the REF10 and test various clock cables.  I haven't used the Yaggie for 5 months so have to become accustomed to it again.  It's more practical as my regular system is in a 48U recessed cabinet so swapping cables quickly isn't easy.

 

I've tested three 75Ω cables so far:

• Nordost Valhalla 1M (I already owned this cable)
• Tara Labs RSC Digital Air 0.5M (recommended by Mutec)
• Belden 1694a Canare 0.5M

I can't hear any difference between these cables at this stage but will keep testing.

 

When the REF10 is engaged on the tX-USBultra instruments sound more solid and natural.

 

I can't wait to hear what it does with 4 x CLK-EXs in the chain.

[austinpop]

Hey folks,

 

The index for this massive topic is now (mostly) complete. Take a look at the first post.

 

Two points to make:

1. I had to leave out a lot of stuff. If you posted something profound, and I excluded it, please accept my apologies. As I said in the index: NOTE: If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me.
2. Since the topics of mobo mods, SATA improvements, and Adnaco were not in my area of interest, I did not cover these. If someone would volunteer to create the index for these sections, I would gladly accept their input.

I will try to keep the index up to date from here on out.

[Bamber]

The REF10 is one of the easier components to blind test by yourself when using 1 output.  A quick twist and a random number of clicks on the output selector and you don't know if it is engaged or not without looking at the LED.

 

When engaged the changes aren't radical, you can certainly hear slightly more detail.  The soundstage doesn't change but there is better separation between instruments.

 

The only negative that I found with the SoTM chain was that it sounded a tad bright in my system, with the REF10 engaged that is gone.  I've been listening to most genres of music all day and night.  Female voices, kick drums, cymbals, violins all sound real and fleshed out now.

 

I'm listening Sibelius Symphonies nos. 3, 6 & 7 right now, a recording I've played dozens of times but I've never enjoyed it like this before.

 

Adding the tX-USBultra to my system brought the biggest improvement in detail, the REF10 improves the dynamics.

 

I still can't hear any difference between cables after 2 days of careful listening.

[mozes]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Hey folks,

 

The index for this massive topic is now (mostly) complete. Take a look at the first post.

 

Two points to make:

1. I had to leave out a lot of stuff. If you posted something profound, and I excluded it, please accept my apologies. As I said in the index: NOTE: If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me.
2. Since the topics of mobo mods, SATA improvements, and Adnaco were not in my area of interest, I did not cover these. If someone would volunteer to create the index for these sections, I would gladly accept their input.

I will try to keep the index up to date from here on out.

Great work Rajiv! Thanks for taking the lead on this. I am sure it will be a great reference for many of us in the future

[mozes]

3 minutes ago, Bamber said:

The REF10 is one of the easier components to blind test by yourself when using 1 output.  A quick twist and a random number of clicks on the output selector and you don't know if it is engaged or not without looking at the LED.

 

When engaged the changes aren't radical, you can certainly hear slightly more detail.  The soundstage doesn't change but there is better separation between instruments.

 

The only negative that I found with the SoTM chain was that it sounded a tad bright in my system, with the REF10 engaged that is gone.  I've been listening to most genres of music all day and night.  Female voices, kick drums, cymbals, violins all sound real and fleshed out now.

 

I'm listening Sibelius Symphonies nos. 3, 6 & 7 right now a recording I've played dozens of times but I've never enjoyed it like this before.

 

Adding the tX-USBultra to my system brought the biggest improvement in detail, the REF10 improves the dynamics.

 

I still can't hear any difference between cables after 2 days of careful listening.

Thanks for sharing your impressions, if one has a tX-USBultra maybe adding a second tX is a better value than the Ref 10. Of course we are talking apples and oranges here, but that will be interesting to test. 

[austinpop]

8 minutes ago, Bamber said:

The REF10 is one of the easier components to blind test by yourself when using 1 output.  A quick twist and a random number of clicks on the output selector and you don't know if it is engaged or not without looking at the LED.

 

When engaged the changes aren't radical, you can certainly hear slightly more detail.  The soundstage doesn't change but there is better separation between instruments.

 

The only negative that I found with the SoTM chain was that it sounded a tad bright in my system, with the REF10 engaged that is gone.  I've been listening to most genres of music all day and night.  Female voices, kick drums, cymbals, violins all sound real and fleshed out now.

 

I'm listening Sibelius Symphonies nos. 3, 6 & 7 right now, a recording I've played dozens of times but I've never enjoyed it like this before.

 

Adding the tX-USBultra to my system brought the biggest improvement in detail, the REF10 improves the dynamics.

 

I still can't hear any difference between cables after 2 days of careful listening.

 

Encouraging to hear.

 

Of course, things will get a lot more interesting when all your gear comes back. It will be interesting to first baseline everything will all the sCLK-EX boards in place.

 

THEN - the effect of driving all 4 boards with the Ref 10 will be very telling.

[Bamber]

1 minute ago, mozes said:

Thanks for sharing your impressions, if one has a tX-USBultra maybe adding a second tX is a better value than the Ref 10. Of course we are talking apples and oranges here, but that will be interesting to test. 

Exactly, if only I lived closer to other CA members to try that.

 

I've still to experience the ISO Regen in the chain too.

 

 

 

 

[austinpop]

11 minutes ago, Bamber said:

I'm listening Sibelius Symphonies nos. 3, 6 & 7 right now, a recording I've played dozens of times but I've never enjoyed it like this before.

 

Vänskä/Minnesota on BIS?

 

If so, that's my favorite!

[mozes]

1 minute ago, Bamber said:

Exactly, if only I lived closer to other CA members to try that.

 

I've still to experience the ISO Regen in the chain too.

 

 

 

 

Come to Toronto

[austinpop]

1 minute ago, mozes said:

Come to Toronto

 

Or Austin! Nonstop on BA.

[Bamber]

10 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Vänskä/Minnesota on BIS?

That's the one.

[Bamber]

7 minutes ago, mozes said:

Come to Toronto

 

5 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Or Austin! Nonstop on BA.

I thought Rajiv and Eric had covered most combinations, now we need to span three countries to get enough gear

[Johnseye]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

Hey folks,

 

The index for this massive topic is now (mostly) complete. Take a look at the first post.

 

Two points to make:

1. I had to leave out a lot of stuff. If you posted something profound, and I excluded it, please accept my apologies. As I said in the index: NOTE: If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me.
2. Since the topics of mobo mods, SATA improvements, and Adnaco were not in my area of interest, I did not cover these. If someone would volunteer to create the index for these sections, I would gladly accept their input.

I will try to keep the index up to date from here on out.

 

Did you guys compare the ultra sms 200 to your nodded sms 200?  I didn't see that indexed and I'm wondering if it would be better to mod mine and a switch with a TX or buy a new ultra and use one of its clocks for a switch.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

I didn't see that indexed 

 

Have you seen the size of this thread? Do you seriously expect an index with that level of detail? 

 

I condensed the listening impressions to a very manageable list. All you have to do is click through them and in short order you will find that the answer to your question is in there.

 

 

 

[Cornan]

27 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Have you seen the size of this thread? Do you seriously expect an index with that level of detail? 

 

I condensed the listening impressions to a very manageable list. All you have to do is click through them and in short order you will find that the answer to your question is in there.

 

 

 

 

You have done a huge job with that first post Rajiv! Very impressive! ?

[Lebouwsky]

8 hours ago, austinpop said:

Hey folks,

 

The index for this massive topic is now (mostly) complete. Take a look at the first post.

 

Two points to make:

1. I had to leave out a lot of stuff. If you posted something profound, and I excluded it, please accept my apologies. As I said in the index: NOTE: If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me.
2. Since the topics of mobo mods, SATA improvements, and Adnaco were not in my area of interest, I did not cover these. If someone would volunteer to create the index for these sections, I would gladly accept their input.

I will try to keep the index up to date from here on out.

Your contribution to this forum is beyond what can be expected from a mortal member. The way you communicate, besides contributing, is something I really appriciate too.

 

[tapatrick]

9 hours ago, austinpop said:

Hey folks,

 

The index for this massive topic is now (mostly) complete. Take a look at the first post.

 

Two points to make:

1. I had to leave out a lot of stuff. If you posted something profound, and I excluded it, please accept my apologies. As I said in the index: NOTE: If you would like to nominate a post to this index, just PM me.
2. Since the topics of mobo mods, SATA improvements, and Adnaco were not in my area of interest, I did not cover these. If someone would volunteer to create the index for these sections, I would gladly accept their input.

I will try to keep the index up to date from here on out.

Amazing service to everyone Rajiv! thanks for distilling this phenomenon thread and highlighting all the key pieces of info. Will be interesting to see how the discoveries found and shared here impact on the industry and in the creation of new products down the line.

[BigAlMc]

4 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

You have done a huge job with that first post Rajiv! Very impressive! ?

+1 on this. Great job Rajiv!

[austinpop]

Thanks all.

 

My original intent was to have a place to refer faq's, or newbies to this thread. But you guys have raised a good point that it is also a compendium of findings that could hopefully be used by the industry to verify in their own labs, and inspire the creation of new products.

 

I also want to acknowledge all of you who come back and contribute your findings here in a very positive way. Thanks so much.

[austinpop]

9 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Did you guys compare the ultra sms 200 to your nodded sms 200?  I didn't see that indexed and I'm wondering if it would be better to mod mine and a switch with a TX or buy a new ultra and use one of its clocks for a switch.

 

I apologize for my slightly testy response earlier.

 

I think experiment 4 in this post addresses your question:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-the-sms-200-and-microrendu/?do=findComment&comment=686596

 

If you already own an original SMS-200, I highly recommend the trifecta of tX-USBultra, modded sMS, and modded switch. Run the lot with 2 LPS-1s and you're all set.