A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Johnseye]

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

• Put all of these on a PS Audio Dectet strip and attach them to a B&K 1604A isolation transformer

 

4 hours ago, lmitche said:

With a 12 volt Sigma 11 based lps to power 2 lps-1s  the difference in SQ is significant here. The B&K 1604a IT powers the Sigma 11 lps with a Supra AC cable.

 

Rajiv, what I last read of your opinion on the B&K was that it may have made a slight difference, but was hard to tell.  Are you now finding it makes a significant improvement?  I'm sure you've also read about the Topaz and I suspect you chose the B&K for the smaller size and no hum.  Can you confirm please?

 

Larry, are you also using a B&K and if so what are your findings?

[ElviaCaprice]

4 hours ago, lmitche said:

Rajiv, 3 Meanwells wow! Looks like you've done a great job of isolating them, however you may be surprised by the sound quality impact of a good, not great, LPS replacement for the Meanwells.

 

With a 12 volt Sigma 11 based lps to power 2 lps-1s  the difference in SQ is significant here. The B&K 1604a IT powers the Sigma 11 lps with a Supra AC cable.

 

 

I take it that your both benefiting from the isolation of the LPS-1 meanwells from contaminating other components AC feed.  The LPS-1 is not effected by it's power feed, as designed.

[lmitche]

Just now, Johnseye said:

 

 

Rajiv, what I last read of your opinion on the B&K was that it may have made a slight difference, but was hard to tell.  Are you now finding it makes a significant improvement?  I'm sure you've also read about the Topaz and I suspect you chose the B&K for the smaller size and no hum.  Can you confirm please?

 

Larry, are you also using a B&K and if so what are your findings?

Johnseye, from the wall I've got a 1000 watt balanced power transformer with a built in power strip. From there four floating neutral isolation transformers, either a B&K or a modded Tripplite are used to power the digital components.  The Tripplites take the heavier loads.

[Johnseye]

1 minute ago, lmitche said:

Johnseye, from the wall I've got a 1000 watt balanced power transformer with a built in power strip. From there four floating neutral isolation transformers, either a B&K or a modded Tripplite are used to power the digital components.  The Tripplites take the heavier loads.

 

Damn.  Nice.  Who modded the Tripplite's and what models?

Have you compared the difference by plugging your components into an outlet not powered by your transformer?

[lmitche]

7 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Damn.  Nice.  Who modded the Tripplite's and what models?

Have you compared the difference by plugging your components into an outlet not powered by your transformer?

The Tripplites are the 250 watt model. I made the modifications based on what I learned here.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=11Yve2ijWyk

 

I have spent what seems like years of my life working through combinations of the ac side configuration of my system.  Yes plugging everything into the outlet was included in that testing.

 

[austinpop]

4 hours ago, lmitche said:

Rajiv, 3 Meanwells wow! Looks like you've done a great job of isolating them, however you may be surprised by the sound quality impact of a good, not great, LPS replacement for the Meanwells.

 

With a 12 volt Sigma 11 based lps to power 2 lps-1s  the difference in SQ is significant here. The B&K 1604a IT powers the Sigma 11 lps with a Supra AC cable.

 

 

 

Yeah Larry,

 

I need to try LPSes to energize. Is the Sigma 11 a DIY, or something you can buy?

 

I have one el cheapo on the shelf, so I'll try that on one and see if I can hear anything further. I need to confirm with Alex though - wasn't there some issue wth it not handling instantaneous current peaks well?

 

But yes, more experiments necessary. Always!

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, AmusedToD said:

 

@austinpop, eager to read the impressions, my setup for now is sms200Ultra > Curious link USB > SU-1 (stock) > i2S HDMI > Holo Spring level 3

 

I wonder if you could start with this setup (just the sms200Ultra > SU-1), and then add component after component (the modded switch, then the ISO Regen) and try to describe the level of perceived sonic improvements. It would mean a lot to me in terms of making a buying decision in the future.

 

Many thanks in advance!

 

I'm sure we can do that. But the effect of the switch is easy. We've done that before. It always makes a huge positive impact. Regardless of whatever else is or is not in the chain.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

Good stuff Rajiv.  Lots of changes going on.  When I hear you say "finally banished the last remnants of the slightly thin SOtM house sound" and "these just vanquished the last trace of thinness" I think to myself, what are we really trying to achieve with these devices?  If we think in painting terms, are we just painting different shades or colors of the music to achieve a sound that is more pleasing to our ears?

 

Some would call it coloring - and I wouldn't argue. But to me, every system needs to be dialed in to be ultimately pleasing to the listener for the "long term." Loaded term, for those of us constantly tweaking! 

 

Quote

And I wonder how you came to the conclusion that SOtM products sound thin because I've come to that same conclusion myself.  What is your point of reference in which a device sounds fatter that you are measuring against?  I found that the microRendu sounded fatter.  However the sms-200 was slightly clearer while also sounding thinner at the same time.  I think it may be hard to get one without the other, but I chose thin and clear vs. fat and clouded.

 

Hah - great minds (ears) think (hear) alike! I felt this dichotomy too when I did my first comparisons of stock sMS-200, mR, and Aries Mini here: 

 

[austinpop]

50 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

Rajiv, what I last read of your opinion on the B&K was that it may have made a slight difference, but was hard to tell.  Are you now finding it makes a significant improvement?  I'm sure you've also read about the Topaz and I suspect you chose the B&K for the smaller size and no hum.  Can you confirm please?

 

Larry, are you also using a B&K and if so what are your findings?

 

Yes, even now, it's a subtle improvement. Due to stuff moving around, I hadn't gone back to putting the B&K in the chain. This time I did the combination - both the IT, and the upgraded power cables - and the combination was noticeable. Not huge, but noticeable.

[austinpop]

45 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

I take it that your both benefiting from the isolation of the LPS-1 meanwells from contaminating other components AC feed.  The LPS-1 is not effected by it's power feed, as designed.

 

Correct!

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Yeah Larry,

 

I need to try LPSes to energize. Is the Sigma 11 a DIY, or something you can buy?

 

I have one el cheapo on the shelf, so I'll try that on one and see if I can hear anything further. I need to confirm with Alex though - wasn't there some issue wth it not handling instantaneous current peaks well?

 

But yes, more experiments necessary. Always!

Sorry to state the obvious, but you'll be happy.  I have had a El Cheapo powering one LPS-1.  The El cheapo is an improvement from the Meanwell, but things sound better using the Sigma 11.  My Sigma 11s are custom, and now unavailable. I have heard of Chinese clones.  This fellow will make you one in the states;

http://www.ybmaudio.com/products.html

[Lebouwsky]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Good stuff Rajiv.  Lots of changes going on.  When I hear you say "finally banished the last remnants of the slightly thin SOtM house sound" and "these just vanquished the last trace of thinness" I think to myself, what are we really trying to achieve with these devices?  If we think in painting terms, are we just painting different shades or colors of the music to achieve a sound that is more pleasing to our ears?

 

What is each reviewers ultimate goal when listening to these devices?  Are we looking to reduce noise as much as possible, thus revealing as much of the music as possible, are we looking for a sound that most closely represents live or an analog sourced recording, or are we looking for a sound that is most pleasing to our ear and does that qualification change?

 

There are certain components that contribute to a thin sound.  Solid state vs tube in the pre or amp is one.  Cable material is another.  And I wonder how you came to the conclusion that SOtM products sound thin because I've come to that same conclusion myself.  What is your point of reference in which a device sounds fatter that you are measuring against?  I found that the microRendu sounded fatter.  However the sms-200 was slightly clearer while also sounding thinner at the same time.  I think it may be hard to get one without the other, but I chose thin and clear vs. fat and clouded.  Analog music such as that from vinyl is one exception.  I think that can be clear and fat.  Almost buttery, but it's also noisy.  When I listen to music that's my reference point.  I can hear the difference between an analog sourced piece of vinyl and a digital sourced.  It's not hard, one sounds thinner than the other.  My end goal is to hear digital music as clearly as possible, with as little extraneous noise as possible, providing a clean, transparent, multi dimensional image that is buttery like analog.  That's my point of reference and critical in understanding why I think a device, a musical source or a setting may sound better than another.  It's the compass that guides my audio decisions.

 

I think you're post is spot on. And just like Austinpop states, it's my personal goal to achieve an enjoyable sound, not accurate reproduction. Besides the fat/thin colouring, I would like to add rich and lush sound to the equation, although I don't know what the opposite is in this spectrum. My hybrid AMR 77 amp icm with the dynaudio focus 260 does that. The Sotm added the detail and soundstage.

[RickyV]

The sigma 11 powersupply from AMB laboratories is more or less the same as/ Copied by this zero zone powersupply. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Low-Noise-linear-power-supply-LPS-PSU-KIT-5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-24V/121940137982?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44758%26meid%3Dd24143220e5646329b8315b04271e32d%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D121760253760

 

http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/

[yellowblue]

I decided to mix to get the best of two worlds:

Silent PC in bridged mode > Supra Cat 8 cable > Aqvox switch > Sablon Cat cable > MicroRendu (to be upgraded to 1.4) > USPCB > Iso Regen > USPCB > tx USBUltra > Curious USB > Chord Dave > Focal Utopia, HE-1000 V1 headphones

As to mix different grapes to get a well balanced wine. I got a fleshy but at the same time airy sound with huuuge soundstage. I hope I will get yet more details with the 1.4 upgrade of the MicroRendu.

[lmitche]

18 minutes ago, RickyV said:

The sigma 11 powersupply from AMB laboratories is more or less the same as/ Copied by this zero zone powersupply. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultra-Low-Noise-linear-power-supply-LPS-PSU-KIT-5V-9V-12V-15V-18V-24V/121940137982?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44758%26meid%3Dd24143220e5646329b8315b04271e32d%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D121760253760

 

http://www.amb.org/audio/sigma11/

Here is a finished one!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100VA-Ultra-low-Noise-100W-LPS-R-core-Linear-power-supply-DC-5V-24V-With-display/131867485038?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45041%26meid%3Daac92d3f2fa145f694e1ba8d4a4690fe%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D252933981325

 

Mine are in the same case. I did the integration here. PITA!

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

I need to try LPSes to energize. Is the Sigma 11 a DIY, or something you can buy?

 

I have one el cheapo on the shelf, so I'll try that on one and see if I can hear anything further. I need to confirm with Alex though - wasn't there some issue wth it not handling instantaneous current peaks well?

 

But yes, more experiments necessary. Always!

 

Well if you guys really want an LPS (to energize your UltraCap LPS-1s) that kicks nothing back in to the wall, then the choke-filtered, power-factor corrected JS-2 is about the best you can do.  

The big choke in series after the Schottky diodes and snubbered R-core trans make it so the JS-2 conducts current over 97% of the AC wave cycle--versus 50% for most traditional trans>diodes>caps>regulator LPS units.  SMPS units have super high frequency harmonics, but standard LPS's kick back harmonics of 50/60Hz.

(Of course the real evil of the SMPS is its massive leakage current--but that is cut off by the LPS-1 since they are just a "disconnected from output" charger.)

 

I cringe at the idea of our beautiful JS-2 being used just to charge a bunch of LPS-1s.  Where the JS-2 really shines is in powering a real audio device. (Have been selling lots of them to Brooklyn DAC owners lately--and they are VERY happy.)  

 

But since the JS-2 can produce 7.2 amps at 12V all day long, you could set both outputs to 12V, use 2 'Y' cables, and power 4 LPS-1s.  

My assistant just finished building another 14 units.  I'll be testing/burning in over the weekend, yet only 11 of the 14 are pre-sold and slated for shipment on Tuesday.  Are you tempted Rajiv? 

[unbalanced output]

17 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

It appears that the 90 degree USPCB might stand a chance of working, particularly if it runs directly to an ISO REGEN.  I'll be looking forward to the reports.

 

My microRendu made it to the post office today.  I got home a few minutes ago, plopped myself in my chair and started playback.  Within seconds I stopped playback.  I'd rather sit in silence.  

 

 

I'm not planning to get a Regen since it doesn't seem to me that it would benefit my setup in any way with the UR + DAC in asynchronous mode. The LAN and USB connectors are also quite close, so it would be a tight fit in the best case scenario. Still curious about the potential results...

[austinpop]

16 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Well if you guys really want an LPS (to energize your UltraCap LPS-1s) that kicks nothing back in to the wall, then the choke-filtered, power-factor corrected JS-2 is about the best you can do.  

The big choke in series after the Schottky diodes and snubbered R-core trans make it so the JS-2 conducts current over 97% of the AC wave cycle--versus 50% for most traditional trans>diodes>caps>regulator LPS units.  SMPS units have super high frequency harmonics, but standard LPS's kick back harmonics of 50/60Hz.

(Of course the real evil of the SMPS is its massive leakage current--but that is cut off by the LPS-1 since they are just a "disconnected from output" charger.)

 

I cringe at the idea of our beautiful JS-2 being used just to charge a bunch of LPS-1s.  Where the JS-2 really shines is in powering a real audio device. (Have been selling lots of them to Brooklyn DAC owners lately--and they are VERY happy.)  

 

But since the JS-2 can produce 7.2 amps at 12V all day long, you could set both outputs to 12V, use 2 'Y' cables, and power 4 LPS-1s.  

My assistant just finished building another 14 units.  I'll be testing/burning in over the weekend, yet only 11 of the 14 are pre-sold and slated for shipment on Tuesday.  Are you tempted Rajiv? 

 

Hah! Nice try, Alex! 

[lmitche]

3 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Hah! Nice try, Alex! 

Actually the economics are pretty good for a JS-2 powering 4 LPS-1s. After shipping certainly competitive with the Chinese lps linked to above.

[Johnseye]

33 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Here is a finished one!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100VA-Ultra-low-Noise-100W-LPS-R-core-Linear-power-supply-DC-5V-24V-With-display/131867485038?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45041%26meid%3Daac92d3f2fa145f694e1ba8d4a4690fe%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D252933981325

 

Mine are in the same case. I did the integration here. PITA!

 

100w for $146.  Is this thing any good?

 

or I should say 100w for $195

[BigAlMc]

24 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Well if you guys really want an LPS (to energize your UltraCap LPS-1s) that kicks nothing back in to the wall, then the choke-filtered, power-factor corrected JS-2 is about the best you can do.  

 

@Superdad - If my LPS-1 needs a clean power supply then I want a refund! 

 

I'm joking of course Alex. I appreciate the quality and value of your products and will undoubtedly buy more. 

 

But if the Linear PSUs need a better PSU then perhaps its time for a new hobby. Time to dust down the twin cassette player and find the old mixtapes... 

[Superdad]

12 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Here is a finished one!

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100VA-Ultra-low-Noise-100W-LPS-R-core-Linear-power-supply-DC-5V-24V-With-display/131867485038?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45041%26meid%3Daac92d3f2fa145f694e1ba8d4a4690fe%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D252933981325

 

I generally avoid denigrating other products (it is uncool and there is no need as ours speak for themselves), but I do feel compelled to caution about about a couple of things if people are considering buying the above type of supply to charge LPS-1s:

 

a) I have had a couple of this sort here (Zerozone), and while they were not the "100W" model you linked to (12V/5.5A is really just 66 watts BTW), they were unable to deliver their rated current (using my programmable load machine), and voltage dropped radically as the load approached about 75% of their quoted spec.

So I have strong doubts about the above unit being able to reach or maintain 5.5A at 12V.  Thus please don't try to power more than two LPS-1s from it.  And the 9V version may be a better choice as the LPS-1 really does not like anything more than 12V--and you would have to be very confident of the PS not going over that.  We do NOT warrantee LPS-1's that have been over-voltaged, and I can tell right away by looking at the board if they have been. 

 

b) When you see $0.50 bridge rectifiers in an LPS, you can know right away that these will exacerbate transformer ringing and lots of harmonics will be kicked back into the line. 

If you are looking for an LPS that is a little more "line quiet" (short of our JS-2 design), then at least find one with discrete Schottky diodes.

 

Just my $0.02.

--Alex C.

[unbalanced output]

9 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

@Superdad - If my LPS-1 needs a clean power supply then I want a refund! 

 

I'm joking of course Alex. I appreciate the quality and value of your products and will undoubtedly buy more. 

 

But if the Linear PSUs need a better PSU then perhaps its time for a new hobby. Time to dust down the twin cassette player and find the old mixtapes... 

 

I hope that you just typed this from a notebook which was charged by a LPS charged by a LPS 

[austinpop]

2 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Actually the economics are pretty good for a JS-2 powering 4 LPS-1s. After shipping certainly competitive with the Chinese lps linked to above.

 

To put it in context, the improvements I heard in cleaning up the energizing supply were fairly subtle, so I really can't justify nearly $200 per LPS-1 ($300+ with the JS-2) to gain what is arguably a small further gain in SQ.

 

i could see maybe getting a used HDPlex 100 and using 3 rails at 9-12v. This should work out to under $100 per LPS-1.

[Jeremy Anderson]

32 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Well if you guys really want an LPS (to energize your UltraCap LPS-1s)... the JS-2 can produce 7.2 amps at 12V all day long, you could set both outputs to 12V, use 2 'Y' cables, and power 4 LPS-1s.  

My assistant just finished building another 14 units.  I'll be testing/burning in over the weekend, yet only 11 of the 14 are pre-sold and slated for shipment on Tuesday.  Are you tempted Rajiv? 

 

Sounds to me like what we need is an UltraCap JS-4 that employs all the fancy tricks of both in a single box with 4 outputs... for the best of the best of the best!