A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[clipper]

I am courious as to your numbering scheme for the l217-V adapter which I am assuming is the one connected to the mR? Any particular reason why you chose the subnet, etc., shown?

Yes. Yesterday when I posted the screenshots, the l217-V adapter was the one connected to the microRendu.

 

Of course feeling the need to tweak everything, I swapped it around and now the CT adapter is the one connected to the microRendu. I can't hear any difference after the swap, by the way...

 

As far as the subnets go, I had learned somewhere (way back when) that it was a bad idea to have 2 network adapters in the same computer on the same subnet. If you're interested, see Best Practices for Using Multiple Network Interfaces (NICs) with NI Products - National Instruments (specifically Rule 2, about midway down the page), for example.

 

This wasn't an issue before I tried romaz's tip, because up until then I was running with the l217-V adapter disabled. My private network uses a 192.168.1.* subnet. But when I enabled the second NIC, I threw it on a different subnet (one that I knew was also valid as private). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_network.

[baconbrain]

Great, thx for the reference links.

 

One more question. Are you using the mR in NAA mode and is HQplayer running on the same pc which you have setup the network bridge?

[ted_b]

No surprise. I retired my FMCs over a year ago for the same reason. The EMOsystems isolation transformer sounds best here.

 

Larry can you explain how deep into fiber you were before ripping it out and doing EMO? I have either fiber nic or fmcs (to diablo fiber switch) on pc, NAS, router and microRendu. Thx

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[lmitche]

Larry can you explain how deep into fiber you were before ripping it out and doing EMO? I have either fiber nic or fmcs (to diablo fiber switch) on pc, NAS, router and microRendu. Thx

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Hi Ted,

 

I tested two 1 GB FMCs for a point to point connection between my NAS and playerPC, with the FMCs powered by two "el cheapo" LPSes and 12 inches of BJC cat 6a at each end. I don't use a physical switch, opting for a virtual one under Linux, so a fiber switch is unnecessary. This is as deep as my testing has gone. Against this setup the EMOsystems solution sounds better, and is much simpler given that it is a passive solution.

 

I have contemplated buying a couple Intel fiber cards and testing them in the same point to point configuration as a replacement for the BJC cat 6a and EMOsystems transformer. However testing playback of locally stored files from the boot SSD on my playerPC vs. NAS based files shows no discernible benefit from local storage, so I haven't bothered to buy the fiber cards.

 

I should say that I have a second EMOsystems isolation transformer attached to the NAS for access to the Internet. Sitting between two Bjc cat 6a cables this leg attaches​ to a el-cheapo powered wired wifi adapter connected to a second nic on the NAS. The wifi adapter talks to a wireless router that defines a second music subnet on the general purpose network in the house.

 

I hope this answers your question.

[clipper]

Great, thx for the reference links.

 

One more question. Are you using the mR in NAA mode and is HQplayer running on the same pc which you have setup the network bridge?

Yes to both questions.

 

I have HQPlayer (along with RoonServer, Audiophile Optimizer, and Fidelizer) running on the same pc with the 2 NICs that are bridged.

 

And my microRendu runs in NAA mode.

[marksas3]

Hi Ted, I tested two 1 GB FMCs for a point to point connection between my NAS and playerPC, with the FMCs powered by two "el cheapo" LPSes and 12 inches of BJC cat 6a at each end. I don't use a physical switch, opting for a virtual one under Linux, so a fiber switch is unnecessary. This is as deep as my testing has gone. Against this setup the EMOsystems solution sounds better, and is much simpler given that it is a passive solution.

I have contemplated buying a couple Intel fiber cards and testing them in the same point to point configuration as a replacement for the BJC cat 6a and EMOsystems transformer. However testing playback of locally stored files from the boot SSD on my playerPC vs. NAS based files shows no discernible benefit from local storage, so I haven't bothered to buy the fiber cards.

I should say that I have a second EMOsystems isolation transformer attached to the NAS for access to the Internet. Sitting between two Bjc cat 6a cables this leg attaches​ to a el-cheapo powered wired wifi adapter connected to a second nic on the NAS. The wifi adapter talks to a wireless router that defines a second music subnet on the general purpose network in the house.

I hope this answers your question.

 

I'm curious as to how long of a run your fiber was and does this direct connection method work best for shorter runs? My computer and microrendu are on two different levels of my home and are connected by 50' of fiber patch between 2 gigabit FMC's. I was using BJC6a for that same length previously but found the new fiber network to be an upgrade over the long ethernet cable.

[lmitche]

I'm curious as to how long of a run your fiber was and does this direct connection method work best for shorter runs? My computer and microrendu are on two different levels of my home and are connected by 50' of fiber patch between 2 gigabit FMC's. I was using BJC6a for that same length previously but found the new fiber network to be an upgrade over the long ethernet cable.

Well as indicated above, the NAS and playerPC are connected via 24 inches of cable. The FMCs were tested via a 1 meter connection of single mode fiber. Like you, in a prior configuration I had 150 feet of BJC Cat 6A with the EMOsystems transformers and without doubt the 2 foot configuration sounds better.

 

Happily my NAS is noiseless, with no moving parts save the HDDs, so having it in the music room no problem.

[baconbrain]

Yes to both questions.

 

I have HQPlayer (along with RoonServer, Audiophile Optimizer, and Fidelizer) running on the same pc with the 2 NICs that are bridged.

 

And my microRendu runs in NAA mode.

 

Hmmm, I set up the bridge as shown in your example and can reach the mR via browser. It is currently in NAA mode.

 

Unforetunately HQPlayer no longer recognizes it. Any idea as to what might be wrong?

 

Thx!

[clipper]

Hmmm, I set up the bridge as shown in your example and can reach the mR via browser. It is currently in NAA mode.

 

Unforetunately HQPlayer no longer recognizes it. Any idea as to what might be wrong?

 

Thx!

 

Maybe try rebooting the microRendu (if you haven't done that already)?

 

If that doesn't work, maybe try switching to another mode (like Squeezelite) and then immediately back to HQPlayer NAA mode.

[Cebolla]

Is it now safe to assume that this 'novel way' is only for those those using the microRendu and sMS-200 as a Roon Endpoint?

 

So:

- Can't be used with the device as a NAA for some reason.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for AirPlay.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for Squeezelite.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for DLNA/MPD & even possibly can't be used anyway if your UPnP/DLNA controller app is on a wireless device (WiFi devices only accesssible via UPnP from the router's DHCP server handled devices, ie, can't be accessed from another subnet).

[baconbrain]

Maybe try rebooting the microRendu (if you haven't done that already)?

 

If that doesn't work, maybe try switching to another mode (like Squeezelite) and then immediately back to HQPlayer NAA mode.

Tried both but didn't change the situation. Strange since just about everything else works. I can access the mR also via wireless, iPad, etc., without an issue. Only VNC access to the music pc seems slower than before.

 

If you check the tcp/ip properties V4 for your adaptors within your bridge, do they both have the same Static IP settings? Although I defined mine just like your example, after creating the bridge, they both have the same address settings.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Is it now safe to assume that this 'novel way' is only for those those using the microRendu and sMS-200 as a Roon Endpoint?

 

So:

- Can't be used with the device as a NAA for some reason.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for AirPlay.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for Squeezelite.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for DLNA/MPD & even possibly can't be used anyway if your UPnP/DLNA controller app is on a wireless device (WiFi devices only accesssible via UPnP from the router's DHCP server handled devices, ie, can't be accessed from another subnet).

 

Why would this solution not be relevant using another sbc as a roon endpoint?

[Cebolla]

I was going by the title of the thread which only mentioned the sMS-200 & the microRendu - haven't considered other devices. Ok just for you, I'll rephrase my question:

Is it now safe to assume that this 'novel way' is only for those those using their device as a Roon Endpoint?

[kennyb123]

I was going by the title of the thread which only mentioned the sMS-200 & the microRendu - haven't considered other devices. Ok just for you, I'll rephrase my question:

Is it now safe to assume that this 'novel way' is only for those those using their device as a Roon Endpoint?

 

It's been confirmed for those two. Change enough variables and the benefit might be lost.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Cebolla]

I did say it was just for @hopkins

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I did say it was just for @hopkins

 

I set up a bridge between RoonServer and RoonBridge on a RaspberryPi2 equipped with a Kali Reclocker (with I2S output going directly into a "Full Digital Amp"), but went away on a business trip for two weeks before I could sit down and have a serious listening session - am eager to be able to compare it when I get back.

[spacexpert]

Wait a minute. This is a Roon only thing? Oh fiddle sticks, back to the drawing board for me.

[kennyb123]

Wait a minute. This is a Roon only thing? Oh fiddle sticks, back to the drawing board for me.

 

There are reports of benefits both by streaming via Roon and via HQPlayer. So why not the other streaming modes too? Has anyone definitely ruled these out?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Evo1668]

Is it now safe to assume that this 'novel way' is only for those those using the microRendu and sMS-200 as a Roon Endpoint?

 

So:

- Can't be used with the device as a NAA for some reason.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for AirPlay.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for Squeezelite.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for DLNA/MPD & even possibly can't be used anyway if your UPnP/DLNA controller app is on a wireless device (WiFi devices only accesssible via UPnP from the router's DHCP server handled devices, ie, can't be accessed from another subnet).

Your assumption is incorrect - I am using the mRendu in NAA mode no problems bridged. (see my earlier posts in this thread)

[Evo1668]

Is it now safe to assume that this 'novel way' is only for those those using the microRendu and sMS-200 as a Roon Endpoint?

 

So:

- Can't be used with the device as a NAA for some reason.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for AirPlay.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for Squeezelite.

- Irrelevant/no improvement for DLNA/MPD & even possibly can't be used anyway if your UPnP/DLNA controller app is on a wireless device (WiFi devices only accesssible via UPnP from the router's DHCP server handled devices, ie, can't be accessed from another subnet).

Your assumption is incorrect - I am using the mRendu in NAA mode no problems bridged. (see my earlier posts in this thread) NOTE... You do realise you have to toggle the network switch in HQPlayer, as now the mRendu aka NAA endpoint is local to the same machine as HQPlayer ?

[tboooe]

Wait a minute. This is a Roon only thing? Oh fiddle sticks, back to the drawing board for me.

This is not a Roon only thing. Bridging would work for any audio setup that transmits music via Ethernet. As mentioned Jplay has been advocating this kind of direct connection for years.

[tboooe]

Your assumption is incorrect - I am using the mRendu in NAA mode no problems bridged. (see my earlier posts in this thread) NOTE... You do realise you have to toggle the network switch in HQPlayer, as now the mRendu aka NAA endpoint is local to the same machine as HQPlayer ?

 

What network switch are you referring to? I thought that option was only to allow another device to control HQP remotely. For example if Roon was running on another PC.

[spacexpert]

This is not a Roon only thing. Bridging would work for any audio setup that transmits music via Ethernet. As mentioned Jplay has been advocating this kind of direct connection for years.

 

Good to know, headache lessened slightly. Thanks.

[austinpop]

This is not a Roon only thing. Bridging would work for any audio setup that transmits music via Ethernet. As mentioned Jplay has been advocating this kind of direct connection for years.

 

I suspect you are right. Roon and HQPlayer may be wonderful, but for many of us, it's a lot of steps to get to a full Roon/HQP setup, and there are definite tradeoffs.

 

I was hoping to try this (bridging) out in the context of UPnP/DLNA using MinimServer, but have had no luck getting bridging to work on my Synology NAS. At this point, I'm not willing to spend more time and effort on that.

 

I do, at some point, want to try out the whole Roon and HQPlayer paradigm, and have a W10 desktop I can use for that purpose. I think I will piggyback this bridging experiment when I do that.

[Evo1668]

What network switch are you referring to? I thought that option was only to allow another device to control HQP remotely. For example if Roon was running on another PC.

 

If you read on HQPlayer setup of NAA, it makes clear (I seem to remember reading it first on HQPlayer setup) when using a local NAA daemon versus a network attached demon. to remember to enable the network switch (far right icon in toolbar of HQP).

Although the mRendu with this bridged solution, still has it's DHCP given IP address. It is physically attached to the same machine as HQplayer. You could put a local loop back address 127.0.0.1 in for mRendu and it would still work I believe. Although you would probably be only able to configure it from the local machine......